vBulletin Update

[vangogh]

What don't you like about the design. I'm not planning on grabbing one of the skins I see. I think most are pretty bad actually. Too many dark backgrounds that I don't think suit a business forum. As far as the default theme I do like it better than the old default theme.

I'm not sure how much customization I'll do, though I do want to do something. It probably won't happen right away. What I was thinking was to slowly make incremental changes over time and see where that takes us. Feel free to share ideas for a new look if you have. No promises, but I'll certainly listen. I still may break down and come up with a completely new design too. I might work on one behind the scenes.

[jamestl2]

I haven't taken a look at the vb4 version skins, but I thought there might be some out there that look halfway decent.

About the design, some things I'm not a really big fan of are:
-Text too small
-Rearranging and rewording of the forum features (it took me a few moments to find the UserCP)
-Color scheme doesn't flow very well.
-Lots of extra white space compared to the old design.

Those were just off the top of my head. I know the design doesn't always "make or break" a forum, and that there are many other things that make a forum great, but personally it just feels a bit on the bland side. Although honestly, I wasn't a big fan of the old default skin either.

[vangogh]

That's 2 mentions of text being too small. Is it the text in the posts, elsewhere on the site, everything? I checked the main text in posts and for me that text is 13px, which is fairly common. It's actually the size I prefer. Is 13px too small? Are you seeing it smaller? Any info you can give me about where and why the text is too small will help me fixing it.

I know things got rearranged. It took me a few minutes to find things too. I can probably rename Settings to User CP easily if it's something more people would like. I probably won't move it right away, though I'm still reaching to the left. Maybe one night if I have some free time I'll play around with the navigation some.

What don't you like about the color scheme. It's a lighter blue, but otherwise seems ok. I like the new colors better myself and I think a few other people do too.

More space? Really? Seems about the same to me, though I like more space. Some of it's going to go away though. I'm planning on adding a sidebar on the right. And here I was worried that would leave too little space for everything else.

Let me know about the size of the text when you get a chance. The navigation stuff will come when I have a chance. Should I change Settings back to User CP? The rest I'll have to think about, but my first thought is not to change them, at least not anytime soon.

Anyone else have thoughts or suggestions about the design?

[Spider]

Ooh! A wsh list for VG to do "in his spare time!"

1. Yes, the font is too small everywhere, but much of that smallness, I find, is the boldness (or lack thereof.) If this is 13px, then 13px in bold would be considerably more readable. To attain that level of readability in light font, you'd need 16px (at a guess.)

2. Adding to the difficulty of reading the new font is the paleness of it. Making it black, instead of semi-dark gray, would help.

3. What font is this, anyway? I don't think it is Arial, is it? Verdana is broader and easier to read at these small sizes. Microsoft san serif is a nice one, too.

4. The blue links are too pale - especially the vlink. The paleness of the color, along with the fineness of the font and the small size of the font, makes vlinks almost invisible to me.

5. The wasted white space that irks me somewhat is the added space between the end of each message and the signature on every post.

6. I notice the Reputation score has been removed with each post. I rather liked that - it encourages posters to write in a fashion to please and benefit aother psrticipants.

[vangogh]

Uh Oh. I opened my big mouth

1. I'll have to look into the fonts. It's actually set as Verdana and 13px. The reason I'm finding it a bit odd that you're both seeing it as too small is that on the old version the font was Verdana and 13.33px. A tiny bit smaller now, but not significant enough that I would think it would be an issue. I won't be making all the text bold though. That's a big typographic no-no.

2. I agree. I think it's not even just the gray (it's currently set to #333 instead of #000) it's also that the background has been given a bit of color. I can make the text a little darker and see if that helps.

3. Verdana

4. I noticed that too and also agree. In When they're by themselves like in your signature I think they're ok, but I agree they get lost some in the text. I'll see about making them a shade or two darker.

5. Got'cha. It's more extra space inside of things than the overall space. I don't mind the extra space for the most part, but I'll look into it as well. Generally I think a little extra space is a good thing. In this case I think it makes the sigs stand out more. One thing I didn't like about the old version of vB was anytime I added a link toward the end of a post it got obscured because it was so close to the signatures.

6. Nice catch. I hadn't even noticed that. I don't remember it being difficult to add them last time. I thought it was simply a setting somewhere so I'll look into that one. I like the reputation too. I think it's a nice touch.

And again I won't make any promises about when I'll be able to get to these things, but I'll try to get to some of the simpler ones as soon as I can. Thanks for the feedback.

[vangogh]

I managed to get the reputation number back in. It's not pretty, but at least it's there again.

[Spider]

This is arial

This is Verdana

This is Verdana

Hmm... It IS Verdana. Sure doesn't look it until you compare them. Could such a small color variation have made a difference? I wouldn't have thought so. Perhaps the colored-background and slight color change in the font is enough combined.

[Spider]

Another FYI --

The reply - the one at the end of each post and the one at the end of the page - doesn't go anywhere. Well it does - it takes you to the Quick reply at the bottom of the page that is on the page anyway. Then you have to click again for Advanced reply.

Nothing wrong with the quick reply, I suppose, except you cannot review your post before sending.

[vangogh]

I made the text color darker. It's now one shade above black. Does that make it easier to read? I can go to full black though it won't be much darker than it is right now. I'd have to change the background color to get more contrast. I also made the links inside the post content a little bluer. I couldn't find a good blue that was working with the theme so I just underlined the links. That should make them easy enough to stand out.

I think the reply button is meant to reply specifically to a post. I don't think it was meant to move you to the advanced editor. Was it that way on the old version. I hardly ever used the advanced editor so it's not something I would have clicked.

The font might have been different. I found several fonts defined and Verdana was third on the list. The first two listed might have been Windows only fonts, which would explain why I saw it as Verdana all along. I'm not sure if where I changed it actually affected anything though. Nothing would have changed for me anyway.

[Spider]

Difficult to say if the text is appearing any darker for me - maybe it is, but it is slight. Thanks for changing it, though. It's just too small. You say 13px this is fairly standard around the web? Well, yes - I find most websites to have fonts that are too small. Mostly, I just exit immediately but I guess now I think I'll have to change the resolution of my screen. It would be nice if I could use the browser's Text Size control but most sites have fixed fonts nowadays.

Replies: I'm not sure but the advanced reply seems different. Before, I saw the Quick Reply on the page but always clicked the reply button and went to a reply screen that allowed one's post to be reviewed. I don't think Quick Reply let you review - it doesn't now.

Verdana font: To my eye, this doesn't look like Verdana. When I typed the two lines in my previous post "This is Verdana" one was using the Verdana font selected from the font control and one was without any control - and they were the same. I think of Verdana as being larger, more rounded, less vertical and wider spaced. Just a guess - is there some letter-spacing style control in use that is squeezing the characters together.

Still. Never mind. These are just academic thoughts.