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Thread: Do you use Bitcoin or any Crypto Currency?

  1. #11
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    I used to say all of those same things, and now I can hear myself sounding like others sounded when they kept trying to tell me to just learn something about it before you write it off like it's Amway or Herbalife.

    The long term benefit of Bitcoin, Ether and the like is block chain technology. The ability to decentralize not just financial transactions and records but information in general. So that there is no single point of failure. So that it can't be controlled by one entity. So that thousands of millions of people are part of it, verify it, and support it, not just a few institutions who control all the access and make all the rules.

    There's also the virtual anonymity of transactions, low or non existent fees.

    If you're curious what all the hub bub is about, I'd recommend watching a few You Tube videos about it. Try and stay clear of all the get rich quick, invest in bitcoin type videos and seek out the ones that explain the technology and how it works for transactions. Just like everything new, there's a lot of bad info out there.

    Here's a decent one that keeps it 100.



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    And here's one from IBM about Blockchain technology


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    I did watch some vids before and just now watched the ones you posted. But it all leaves me with my same questions. Why would I use Crypto as opposed to dollars? To save a few pennies on online transaction fees? Why would I accept crypto as payment rather than dollars?

    I don’t see its widespread usage as any real foundation for stable valuation. Trillions were in the stock and real estate markets when they crashed. Even with the underlying value of properties and operating companies the perception of value disintegrated right before our eyes.

    So , for me, even if it works and becomes stable I still don’t see any significant benefit over standard currency. I guess I'm just not getting it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    I did watch some vids before and just now watched the ones you posted. But it all leaves me with my same questions. Why would I use Crypto as opposed to dollars? To save a few pennies on online transaction fees? Why would I accept crypto as payment rather than dollars?

    I don’t see its widespread usage as any real foundation for stable valuation. Trillions were in the stock and real estate markets when they crashed. Even with the underlying value of properties and operating companies the perception of value disintegrated right before our eyes.

    So , for me, even if it works and becomes stable I still don’t see any significant benefit over standard currency. I guess I'm just not getting it!
    It's probably just not for you right now,. Maybe never. But for the sake of the conversation there are real world applications that are already making people's lives better.

    People in economically depressed areas who don't have access to banking, live in rural areas around the world, or people in our own country who can't get bank accounts now have a way to receive and transfer money without having to go through a bank and ask for approval, and permission, and be at the mercy of constant fees and rule changes.

    Think about how many hands and approvals and percentage points a mortgage has to go through. Blockchain eliminates the need for all that, and it is more secure than writing a check to one central bank. You could deal with the other party directly and securely.

    All of our money right now has single points of failure. The Wells Fargo scam and Equifax hack and the 2008 financial meltdown should have made that clear. One large institution goes down or some bad government policy or bone headed move by Washington and we all go down with it. Our money, The stock market. Our CD's, 401k's, investments. It's all controlled and at the mercy of a few players.

    If Wells Fargo had been using blockchain technology, there would have been no way for employees to siphon money from account holders in order to open other fake accounts in their names. As soon as accounts were tampered with and unapproved transactions started to show up the decentralized system would have denied the transactions.

    Bitcoin doesn't have a point of failure. Encrypted records are tamper proof and backed up all over the planet. No one person or group can take it down or manipulate it. Even you can host a node on the blockchain.

    Another scenario is even closer to home. Me and my friends can't easily transfer money to each other unless we all use the same bank, or are all using the exact same app like Venmo. With Bitcoin we can do that in seconds and it doesn't matter which bitcoin app or wallet everyone is using.

    There's another thread about transfer fees from Euros to U.S. Dollars and losing value of their money. Not an issue with Bitcoin, it's worth the same regardless of what country you're in.

    The anonymity aspect of the transactions is also attractive to people who don't want government watching everything they do and where they spend their money.

    I'm not saying it's going to save the world or that you should start using it on my say so, but the tech is already in play by some major institutions and all of the financial giants are already in it. It's worth paying attention to and it's kind of fun.

    To be fair it's not perfect yet but I'm perfectly comfortable using it for small transactions, especially things online that I don't necessarily want tracked back to my credit or debit card. I'm also studying and leaning towards cyber security so I like it as a way to receive payments.

  5. #15

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    I remember when I thought Apple stock couldn't go higher than 300 a share.

    I bank with Regions which is a fairly large bank and I do not believe they are into Bitcoin yet. This the coins very nature, and the fact that so many are not using it yet leads me to believe it still has a lot of value growth to go.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    It's probably just not for you right now,. Maybe never. But for the sake of the conversation there are real world applications that are already making people's lives better.

    People in economically depressed areas who don't have access to banking, live in rural areas around the world, or people in our own country who can't get bank accounts now have a way to receive and transfer money without having to go through a bank and ask for approval, and permission, and be at the mercy of constant fees and rule changes.

    Think about how many hands and approvals and percentage points a mortgage has to go through. Blockchain eliminates the need for all that, and it is more secure than writing a check to one central bank. You could deal with the other party directly and securely.

    All of our money right now has single points of failure. The Wells Fargo scam and Equifax hack and the 2008 financial meltdown should have made that clear. One large institution goes down or some bad government policy or bone headed move by Washington and we all go down with it. Our money, The stock market. Our CD's, 401k's, investments. It's all controlled and at the mercy of a few players.

    If Wells Fargo had been using blockchain technology, there would have been no way for employees to siphon money from account holders in order to open other fake accounts in their names. As soon as accounts were tampered with and unapproved transactions started to show up the decentralized system would have denied the transactions.

    Bitcoin doesn't have a point of failure. Encrypted records are tamper proof and backed up all over the planet. No one person or group can take it down or manipulate it. Even you can host a node on the blockchain.

    Another scenario is even closer to home. Me and my friends can't easily transfer money to each other unless we all use the same bank, or are all using the exact same app like Venmo. With Bitcoin we can do that in seconds and it doesn't matter which bitcoin app or wallet everyone is using.

    There's another thread about transfer fees from Euros to U.S. Dollars and losing value of their money. Not an issue with Bitcoin, it's worth the same regardless of what country you're in.

    The anonymity aspect of the transactions is also attractive to people who don't want government watching everything they do and where they spend their money.

    I'm not saying it's going to save the world or that you should start using it on my say so, but the tech is already in play by some major institutions and all of the financial giants are already in it. It's worth paying attention to and it's kind of fun.

    To be fair it's not perfect yet but I'm perfectly comfortable using it for small transactions, especially things online that I don't necessarily want tracked back to my credit or debit card. I'm also studying and leaning towards cyber security so I like it as a way to receive payments.
    I appreciate your explanation. There are obviously some valid applications. But it all still leaves me rather skeptical. There is still the inherent weakness regarding its use particularly in the depressed parts of the globe you refer to. First, I may be wrong but it seems it can only be used electronically/digitally. Unless you have a device how do you use it? How does a poor dirt farmer buy seed or a mule with it?

    It seems so totally dependent on the next guy accepting it as payment, while major currencies are accepted universally. This is my biggest problem with the concept. Just like many third world currencies have crashed and burned I think Crypto is even more subject to the same. Crypto may have “no point of failure” but it also has no point of support. Like a Ponzi scheme it is dependent on the next guy to “buy in”.

    You mention anonymity and protection from government intrusion, something I completely support. However, it may be anonymous now, but the block chain tech(as I understand it) looks like a very intrusive monitoring tool that captures every little transaction. In my opinion, the government already has way too much access to all of our personal information. I fear that ultimately government could misuse the technology to be even more intrusive. I understand that theoretically it has no point of intrusive entry but nothing is foolproof.

    From an ease of use perspective, I don’t see the benefit over the current system. I’ve transferred and received money in a variety of ways, wires, ach , paypal etc. It couldn’t be much easier. I hardly ever have to use physical money as it is. I can tap, swipe, chip card just about everywhere for anything, even vending machines. I pay all my bills online already, I have instant online access to my bank accounts so I don’t see that benefit.

    I do realize that the financial institutions do nip us with fees etc, but on the other hand they also pay interest or you can get other returns from various investments. I don’t know if that can be done with crypto.

    I appreciate the concept but remain skeptical of its long term prospects.

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    Other banks who are investing and using bitcoin, and exploring the technology include Citi, Barclays, UBS, Goldman Sachs, BNP, ( off the top of my head). There are others in EU and Asia I just can't remember any names.

    I see websites and mobile apps accepting Bitcoin quite a bit. I myself have both personal and merchant accounts and can accept Bitcoin in any scenario. Yep, still a ways to go, lot of fine tuning to be done, and I would agree this current spike is a bubble based on previous bubbles, but I think the tech is here to stay.

    The crazy part is, no one has any idea who really invented it. It was kind of just given to the world anonymously and people realized that it actually works. .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    I appreciate your explanation. There are obviously some valid applications. But it all still leaves me rather skeptical. There is still the inherent weakness regarding its use particularly in the depressed parts of the globe you refer to. First, I may be wrong but it seems it can only be used electronically/digitally. Unless you have a device how do you use it? How does a poor dirt farmer buy seed or a mule with it?

    It seems so totally dependent on the next guy accepting it as payment, while major currencies are accepted universally. This is my biggest problem with the concept. Just like many third world currencies have crashed and burned I think Crypto is even more subject to the same. Crypto may have “no point of failure” but it also has no point of support. Like a Ponzi scheme it is dependent on the next guy to “buy in”.
    .
    Just wanted to clarify, it's not really depending on the next guy to buy in. Those days are over now. Enough people around the world are in and are using it now. It's self sustaining and seen and used as currency now.

    But I completely understand your skepticism. They are the same concerns I had and some I still have.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    Other banks who are investing and using bitcoin, and exploring the technology include Citi, Barclays, UBS, Goldman Sachs, BNP, ( off the top of my head). There are others in EU and Asia I just can't remember any names.

    I see websites and mobile apps accepting Bitcoin quite a bit. I myself have both personal and merchant accounts and can accept Bitcoin in any scenario. Yep, still a ways to go, lot of fine tuning to be done, and I would agree this current spike is a bubble based on previous bubbles, but I think the tech is here to stay.

    The crazy part is, no one has any idea who really invented it. It was kind of just given to the world anonymously and people realized that it actually works. .
    I'm sure the actual technology can be a great tool for large bank type institutions to better track transactions. It's the "virtual currency" that I question. As for not knowing who invented it, well that's a little concerning! You would know better than I, but I would guess that if someone could invent it then someone could hack it.

    I see that they claim that crypto currency production is capped to protect against dilution. A question is who capped it? How do we know it won't be uncapped?

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    On the investing aspect of crypto. Is it a matter of purchasing crypto with dollars and then hoping it appreciates against the dollar (or other currency)? Basically currency trading. Or do you invest in some crypto company? Just curious.

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