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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    If you're the client and you're subcontracting to me, that's a different story. And honestly if that's all you need...no SEO, no special functions, not worried about sales and marketing....just need an information site and you already have the copy and images...you don't need to hire someone like me who charges what it costs them to build it. You can do that on Squarespace or WordPress.com.

    If you're worried about basic structure, just hire a consultant to guide you. Once you do that 2 or 3 times you won't need much guidance to do a basic 1 or 2 page information site
    Honestly if your going to use Wordpress you may as well as get a hosting plan and the sites on that. Make one, show them, if they like it then hand over the data of that and ditch it. Rinse and repeat as needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    If you're the client and you're subcontracting to me, that's a different story. And honestly if that's all you need...no SEO, no special functions, not worried about sales and marketing....just need an information site and you already have the copy and images...you don't need to hire someone like me who charges what it costs them to build it. You can do that on Squarespace or WordPress.com.

    If you're worried about basic structure, just hire a consultant to guide you. Once you do that 2 or 3 times you won't need much guidance to do a basic 1 or 2 page information site
    All I'm really capable of is godaddy or wix templates. I don't need the functionality you talked about but I do like some flashy/action. Sliding panes, rotating pics and stuff like that. How difficult is squarespace or wordpress compared to the more simplistic templates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    All I'm really capable of is godaddy or wix templates. I don't need the functionality you talked about but I do like some flashy/action. Sliding panes, rotating pics and stuff like that. How difficult is squarespace or wordpress compared to the more simplistic templates?
    They are more challenging but assuming you can get around interfaces fine you should be off to a start. However if your going the Wordpress, get a host with an automated installer and just plop it in that way.

    Given you can show your clients on your domain or even a subdomain of your choice. Once you do the first it will be 10x easier to do the rest since 80% of the work is done with the first website.

    Additionally any good providers will be happy to help you with some/all of these if you put in a support ticket. Just note though some are "unmanaged" though (usually the cheaper shared accounts but some "premium" providers still don't help you beyond server sided problems).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    All I'm really capable of is godaddy or wix templates. I don't need the functionality you talked about but I do like some flashy/action. Sliding panes, rotating pics and stuff like that. How difficult is squarespace or wordpress compared to the more simplistic templates?
    Not to publicly talk myself out of business, but WordPress.com and Squarespace have some decent templates. Especially if you just need the basics.
    It's also not very hard to get basic hosting with one click WordPress install as suggested above. If you investigate a few decent, well made templates and practice on them, have a decent eye for imagery, and copy writing, and have some marketing basics (which you can learn in a Saturday afternoon watching Seth Godin videos ( or take a $12 Skillshare course), you can bang out a basic site without having to know a lot of HTML or CSS.

    It'll probably take you longer that it does me for now, but I've been doing it for 12+ years. But I had to start somewhere.

    To be honest my target customer is people who need more than that. I wish I had a price for "basic" or "I just need something simple" but I've tried it in the past and once things get going the scope slowly creeps until you're basically building a full fledged website with all the bells and whistles, but now you're doing it at a lower price.

    People who say "I just need something simple" either don't understand what they really need, think everything is all inclusive, or are playing games and know that they're going to "oh yeah, one more thing".. you to death once they have gotten the price that they wanted and you're supposed to just eat it.

    Out of all the site builders, Go Daddy is the worst. Wix has come along, but I give WordPress.com and Squarespace the best props.

    However, even with a site builder the issue isn't learning how to work the site builder. It's not knowing how to arrange the content, navigation, copy writing and choosing the best images to reinforce the message. Anyone can learn to go through the motions, but they make it look much easier on TV than it actually is. The TV commercials are using professional HD images which most people do not have, copy is already in place, and so on..and they're just dragging all of this ready made stuff into the right place. Well, someone had to make those things, take those images, and write that copy for you and organize the content to have something to drag, drop, copy and paste.

    Simple is actually hard work. Most clients can't even express in a few coherent words what it is they actually do. If they're stumbling around when explaining it to me, that's exactly how their website is going to read to strangers. We've all been to sites, read a few sentences or paragraphs and still walk away wondering what it is they actually do.

    Again, simple is hard work. You aren't going to just bang it out correctly on the first few tries.

    Plenty of people have called me over the years and just asked me to help them organize things on Squarespace, organize their thoughts, and keep them from making mistakes. 2-3 hours of work, they learn how to look professional, and still did it themselves. DIY doesn't mean you have to figure it all out on your own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    Not to publicly talk myself out of business, but WordPress.com and Squarespace have some decent templates. Especially if you just need the basics.
    It's also not very hard to get basic hosting with one click WordPress install as suggested above. If you investigate a few decent, well made templates and practice on them, have a decent eye for imagery, and copy writing, and have some marketing basics (which you can learn in a Saturday afternoon watching Seth Godin videos ( or take a $12 Skillshare course), you can bang out a basic site without having to know a lot of HTML or CSS.

    It'll probably take you longer that it does me for now, but I've been doing it for 12+ years. But I had to start somewhere.

    To be honest my target customer is people who need more than that. I wish I had a price for "basic" or "I just need something simple" but I've tried it in the past and once things get going the scope slowly creeps until you're basically building a full fledged website with all the bells and whistles, but now you're doing it at a lower price.

    People who say "I just need something simple" either don't understand what they really need, think everything is all inclusive, or are playing games and know that they're going to "oh yeah, one more thing".. you to death once they have gotten the price that they wanted and you're supposed to just eat it.

    Out of all the site builders, Go Daddy is the worst. Wix has come along, but I give Squarespace the best props.

    However, even with a site builder the issue isn't learning how to work the site builder. It's not knowing how to arrange the content, navigation, copy writing and choosing the best images to reinforce the message. Anyone can learn to go through the motions, but they make it look much easier in TV than it actually is. The TV commercials are using professional HD images which most people do not have, copy is already in place, and so on..and they're just dragging all of this ready made stuff into place. Well, someone had to make those things, take those images, and write that copy for you to have something to drag, drop, copy and paste.

    Simple is actually hard work. Most clients can't even express in a few coherent words what it is they actually do. If they're stumbling around when explaining it to me, that's exactly how their website is going to read to strangers. We've all been to sites, read a few sentences or paragraphs and still walk away wondering what it is they actually do.

    Again, simple is hard work. You aren't going to just bang it out correctly off the cuff.

    Plenty of people have called me over the years and just asked me to help them organize things on Squarespace, organize their thoughts, and keep them from making mistakes. 2-3 hours of work, they learn how to look professional, and still did it themselves. DIY doesn't mean you have to figure it all out on your own.
    Absolutely web builders, CMSes (Wordpress, Joomla, etc) are like "tool boxes" more or less. You can't just go to Home Depot or what not, buy it, and suddenly make a deck, a small building, and/or etc in just a day. As they show in the commercials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    If you're the client and you're subcontracting to me, that's a different story. And honestly if that's all you need...no SEO, no special functions, not worried about sales and marketing....just need an information site and you already have the copy and images...you don't need to hire someone like me who charges what it costs them to build it. You can do that on Squarespace or WordPress.com.

    If you're worried about basic structure, just hire a consultant to guide you. Once you do that 2 or 3 times you won't need much guidance to do a basic 1 or 2 page information site
    All I am capable of is basic godaddy or wix templates. How difficult is wordpress or squarespace in comparison? Are they worth learning. Websites is not my business, just need them once in awhile. Mainly I need a designer to flash it up a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    All I am capable of is basic godaddy or wix templates. How difficult is wordpress or squarespace in comparison? Are they worth learning. Websites is not my business, just need them once in awhile. Mainly I need a designer to flash it up a bit.
    If one take the time to do it in the end it will be more flexible and such. It's really depends if you want a larger "array of tools" or if your prefer just sticking to a builder.

    In short the builders tend to be simpler to use.

    While applications like Wordpress and such tend to require setup, maintenance, and such but it offer you much more freedom to what you want to do.

    It's really depends on your personal preferences and what you require.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    Not to publicly talk myself out of business, but WordPress.com and Squarespace have some decent templates. Especially if you just need the basics.
    It's also not very hard to get basic hosting with one click WordPress install as suggested above. If you investigate a few decent, well made templates and practice on them, have a decent eye for imagery, and copy writing............It's not knowing how to arrange the content, navigation, copy writing and choosing the best images to reinforce the message. ............Plenty of people have called me over the years and just asked me to help them organize things on Squarespace, organize their thoughts, and keep them from making mistakes. 2-3 hours of work, they learn how to look professional, and still did it themselves. DIY doesn't mean you have to figure it all out on your own.
    Thanks, I may try one of those next time. Unfortunately I don't have an artistic eye, everything I do is very symmetrical. That's where I ultimately need the help. To be honest I don't enjoy it, I wish I didn't have to do it, but sometimes just have to get things moving.

    BTW-I don't think you're going to talk yourself out of business! I don't have a clue how to do the more intricate stuff you do, and I know most people don't.

    Also, I have the same problem you do regarding communications with clients. I tell them exactly what I am going to need upfront. Books, financials, legal stuff etc. They get it to me in dribs and drabs, they always have to talk to the accountant, the lawyer, the partner, the bank, the manager, the landlord, the wife, the mother-in-law and dog before they can get me the information! Its amazing sometimes how disorganized some business people can be.

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    I have never used Wix or Squarespace but from what I have heard they are easy to use. I have created 3 web sites using WordPress. It isn't very hard and there are a lot of tutorials on YouTube about how to create a site with WordPress.

    Wordpress is very popular now and about 27% of all web sites were created using WordPress. I think the pluses for WordPress are that there are thousands of templates available, many for free and some very cool paid ones for prices ranging from $ 15.00 to $ 70.00. On the three web sites I have done, two use a free template and one uses a premium template. Another plus for WordPress is that there are thousands of plug ins that let you do pretty much anything you could ever dream of doing. A third plus for Wordpress is portability. If you do a Wix site and decide you aren't happy you are stuck starting over where with WordPress if you don't like your hosting company you can just move your hosting to a new host. Wordpress is also considered very good for SEO and much better at that than Wix or SquareSpace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Mansfield View Post
    Ok, based on experience with dozens of people over the years who say "It should only be 3-5 pages", there is no way that it's only going to be 3-5 pages. If you don't have a clear understanding of what you need going in, you're going to waste whatever money you spend and not be happy with what you got for the money.

    You will also run into conflict with your web designer when you tell them up front that "it should only be 3-5 pages" because you're trying to get the lowest possible price, and then realize that you need 10 more pages that you hadn't thought about. They will halt full stop until you come up with more money.

    That's why you need to know everything that you need so that you can get an accurate understanding of actual cost to build it. You cannot "one more thing" an experienced web designer.

    Off the top of my head just the basics are:

    About
    Contact
    Terms of Service
    Privacy Policy
    Home Page
    Reservations Page ( and functionality including credit card processor)
    A page describing your room's features and amenities
    Rates and payment and refund polices.
    If there are any other things in the hotel like entertainment, restaurant or meeting spaces, you will need pages for that.
    Any other services that you offer like Concierge, transpiration shuttles and so on.

    With all the above you will need professionally done images of your property, rooms, staff, and amenities

    Do not attempt to build a feature website without professionally done images and a clear understanding of who will write the copy ( and what that entails) for those pages.

    If you've never done any copywriting, you won't magically figure how it's done as you're rushing to provide your designer with copy for each page. You will turn in junk that will not help your site. It will actually hurt it.
    If you're not a photographer or at least have some skills, you will not take a bunch of pictures with your smart phone and magically have them look awesome. Again, be honest about what you have the skills to do and what you don't.

    Along with that you're going to want on site SEO done properly, and all the start up bells and whistles associated like Analytics installed,

    So first you need to take stock of what you have in the way of marketing materials, and do an honest assessment of your skills and budget to determine which things you can actually provide, and which you will need someone to do for you.

    Don't go into a website design expecting things to magically fall into place, or that everything you're imagining is all included. It's not all the same. Many web designers tell you specifically what they do for the price quoted, or will ask questions about what you need.

    If you don't know those things, they cannot build what you want or need.

    With this you should be able to determine if you have the skills to build your own using something like Squarespace and if that's going to be enough for you, or how to get realistic quotes from designers based on what you actually need.
    Very on point and accurate, also with analytics you will need to learn how to fully utilise it for your website i,e see where there are problem areas you can get seo for your website but in my own opinion seo is very much dying to paid advertising. ( i say this because only 5 % of websites make it to the first page for their respective queries | most websites dont stay there | u you will have many guys blackhattiing to the top for a week or two get penalised by google a week later and then another one will spawn. I say this because you can look st the rubbish at websites oon googles adwords compared to some really good websites listes below in the organic listings. Money talks my friend and if you want to make money you have to spend money. This is what i have come to realise. Your time ontop will be limited. So you might want to look into google adwords and local google my business listings. Most of the websites ive worked with in this industry make use of already well established directories. It seems to me thats where users go to look for guesthouses. Also you would eventually need to update the content on your site. now i know WordPress is nice and user friendly but remember you original content would have been set up by experts so now you have to match that or hire them again. It tough and it will only get tougher.

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