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huggytree
02-05-2009, 09:50 PM
i heard a new idea yesterday i think im going to try!

when you leave the job and hand them the bill- offer them 5 business cards to hand out in exchange for $20 off the bill. say "give these cards out to your friends if you are happy with the service i provided"

my electrician friend does this and has good luck with it. giving them the $20 creates an extra desire to work for you!...they become a salesman for you!

yea some will throw the cards in the garbage or toss them in a drawer...but some wont!

rezzy
02-06-2009, 12:37 AM
That could be a good idea but could also turn bad. Its almost paying your customers to do business. Or could be seen as a discount on service in the hopes they will give out your cards.

I comes as a good idea if, you are in need of clients and referrals are low or you have extra money to burn. Young businesses cant afford to use such methods in finding new clients.

Steve B
02-06-2009, 05:25 AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with that idea. I've heard it several times before and I would guess it would work just fine. Although, I think it would have greater impact if you send it to them a week or two after the work is complete. That way, they would have had a chance to decide if they were happy with the experience or not. It also gives you a good excuse to contact them again.

I personally wouldn't do it or anything like it. For me, I want to know that my customers are referring people to me because they were happy with the service and not because they can make a few dollars. I get TONS of referrals from customers without paying for it and I'm glad that it hasn't been tainted by the possibility some just did it to earn or save some money. I don't mind asking them to refer people to me if they are happy and I give them some business cards to make it easy for them to do - I just don't pay for it and don't offer any discount for it.

I know I'm very rigid about this. One time I refused to accept a $100 referral check from a car dealership for sending someone their way. I loved this car dealership because of the way I was treated and I referred several people to them for free. I sent the check back to them - they earned my referrals without it.

phanio
02-06-2009, 06:55 AM
I agree with Steve B. OK to ask for referrals but you should not have to pay for it. Let your service speak for itself.

Don't want to become known as the company that pays you to hand out b-cards. May not say the right thing about your business in the long-run.

thx4yrtym
02-06-2009, 06:59 AM
I agree with Steve, don't pay for referrals like this. It will more often that not come across as a negative thing. It's not classy. It's not the kind of attitude you want to portray. I've read enough of your posts to know that that is not what you are about.
There is most certainly an art to obtaining referrals. The timing and how you approach the subject are critical. If done correctly it can be very positive for you and your customer.

Question - do you consider yourself a salesman?

Regards,

Gregg

huggytree
02-06-2009, 09:00 AM
my referrals arent where i would think they should be after 2 years in business.

yea i get a couple a month....and turning them into sales dont seem to be any higher % as a cold call....they always pause after i give them a price...

I already know why my business isnt branching out more into the homeowner market...its because the majority of my work is from contractors. in most cases i never meet the homeowner and other cases im not allowed to give a card out....out of the 200-300 projects i did last year maybe 100 -125 met me and got a card.

i also tell myself that this is not a normal market right now and that may be the cause.

i keep statistics on all aspects of my work...at the end of the year i expect to see a increase in homeowner projects as a % of my overall work...id love to be 100% homeowner someday...

KristineS
02-06-2009, 09:03 AM
I think asking for referrals is a must for any business. Paying for them is something else. You want your referrals to be because the customers really like your work, not because they can get an amount off their bill.

thx4yrtym
02-06-2009, 09:27 AM
"they always pause after i give them a price..."

is this a face to face situation in their home or over the phone?

regards,

Gregg

Steve B
02-06-2009, 11:07 AM
My experience with referrals has been the opposite. The sale is pretty much assumed when I get a call and they tell me that so and so sent them to me. A couple times I found myself starting the work and realizing that I forgot to give them a price.

Of course, I'm dealing 100% with homeowners - so I'm sure it's different. I would guess your contractors that are happy with you might keep you a secret so you'll be available the next time they need you.

huggytree
02-06-2009, 11:45 AM
this getting 1/2 the referral jobs maybe just a current trend...i seem to remember only the past 4 or 5 calls....this is over the phone..2 were water heaters(which i flat rate price).

i almost always give a rough price over the phone. i can give a starting(base) price for almost every project to get them in the 'zone' . this base price has cut my bidding time in 1/2 and weeded out 2/3rd's of the time wasters.....i now get 1/2 the jobs i bid on instead of 1/5th to 1/10th

so many people have no idea a plumber charges $100 per hour...being 50% off the 'real' price is very common...sometimes they are 75% off.

alot of contractors of mine give me leads for homeowners..friends or past customers...they never pass my name onto other contractors...why help the competition.....the contractor leads are almost 100% a sure thing...these are customers who pay full price for remodeling and are willing to spend the extra $ for a real plumber...

my homeowner to homeowner referrals are what im talking about.....i still believe 50% of all homeowner will never hire a real plumber...this is the factor im fighting against....they wont pay $200 to reset a toilet or $900 for a new water heater.....their friend refers me to them and they think a new water heater is $400....when i say $900 I lost the job...doesnt matter if its a referral or not...they will find someone who charges $600...it wont be a plumber and it wont be a good brand name water heater....but they are the 50% of customers who wont pay for a plumber.

i am 100% positive of this fact..50% of people will never hire a real plumber - they are middle to lower income- they live in a blue collar working class only neighborhood - they know 10 people who can throw that water heater in for them for a case of beer.

the 50% who do use a plumber are middle to upper income. they live in a mixed blue/white collar neighborhood - they work in an office environment and dont know anyone who can install that waterheater or theyve been burned a few times hiring sidejob guys and are willing to pay for a quality install.

there are suburbs around Milwaukee ive never worked in once in 10 years of being a plumber. those suburbs have 1 think in common....middle/lower class blue collar only...

of course nothing is 100%....its 99.9%

i never get calls in these suburbs....the few ive gotten have 1 thing in common...my price is 4x what they think it will be...i had a guy with a whole house remodel which was $12,000 he had $2,000 for it....fixtures alone were $4,000

huggytree
02-06-2009, 12:01 PM
this thread was supposed to be about different idea's and has now become about me..sorry

anyone have any different referral tips to give others?

billbenson
02-06-2009, 12:25 PM
You have the address. When the contractor is out of there, why not send a mailing saying your have 100% guarantee on your work. Including a magnetic business card for the fridge. I'd stick that on my fridge or water heater. If its new construction, the odds are they don't have a plumber they can trust. Subscribe to a reverse directory so you can personalize the flyers. Could also go banging on doors after a contractor finishes a subdivision? If you have down time, why not?

thx4yrtym
02-06-2009, 01:07 PM
Huggytree,

Don't apologize ,lot's of folks are in the same boat trying to figure out how to stay in business given the current business climate.

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on who your customer is. One thing I might do different is when things are slow, I would carefully ask a few more questions like :
1. did someone refer you to them? no? mmm most of my calls these days come from people referred by my customers.
2. How did they get your number?
3. what's the budget for the plumbing portion of this project and what's to be included?
4. how many quotes are you getting. ( be careful with this one , it can irritate some folks).

depending upon what you learn or don't learn from these questions you decide if it's worth going out to sell the job or not. We both know that you are still going to lose out on at least half.

The thing that might be helpful to consider is that just because you don't get a sale doesn't mean that you wasted your time. People talk and if there's anything then don't like about the job that gets done, someone is going to suggest that MAYBE they would have been money ahead to go with you.

I may have misunderstood you but I get the impression that you bill customers. I suspect you meant contractors only. Homeowners I think assume that they will be presented with a bill that is due upon completion of the work. If you are doing that , I mean handing them a bill before you leave , then that's when I would ask hand them some cards and ask for referrals.

Sneaking up on 63 I've done quite a bit of in-home sales , from 10 years in the insurance business to HVAC to replacement windows.

Some folks will think this is strange but I never ever thank the customer for their business. I always look them in the eye and thank them for their time(thus my handle) . I prefer to view the sales process as a win-win . I don't want to walk away from the customer having them think I won. We both won. I helped them get the best that I had to offer given their needs, and I got paid for my time. It's a subtle difference but based on the percentage of referral over the years this approach has served me well.

Best of luck,

Gregg

Vivid Color Zack
02-06-2009, 01:46 PM
I've never really considered discounting a job in exchange for a referral. If they like my service they're going to tell people whether I pay them or not. No sense throwing away money.

I have sales guys that I pay to find clients. I don't want to have to pay my customers too.

I know a lot of people have something like this on the back of their business card -

"The highest praise I can receive is a referral from a friend or family member"

Something along those lines. Maybe try adding that to your business card if you only have a front side on your current card.

orion_joel
02-06-2009, 08:03 PM
Maybe an option to try would be to forget the discount and paying them for a referral. But still give the cards. If it is a homeowner and you are settling the bill, just pull out a few cards and say "Thank-you, here are a few cards if you think of anyone that may need my services please let them know"

If you have done a job to the standard they are looking for there is a good chance they will give them out regardless of money involved or not. The cost of 5 or 6 cards is almost nothing.

Spider
02-06-2009, 09:46 PM
1. For installation work you are doing for contractors, staple a businesscard to the inside frame of the kitchen cabinet near the disposal (not the cabinet door unless you get permission) and one at every sink trap and another to a joist near the water heater.

2. Have special purpose cards (a little larger) that say "Installed date_________. For free 12 month inspection call XXX-XXXX" Fill in the date and staple them to appropriate places near your installation.

3. Alternative: pre-printed metallic sticky labels with your phone number and "Installation date______ Free inspection" to stick next to manufacturers labels on all installed equipment.

4. Do one of the above at every homeowner call you make.

The point is, no-one is interested in a plumber until they need him. And where will their head be when they need a plumber? Usually inside a kitchen or bathroom cabinet or around the water heater!

Other businesses can adapt the above to their particular needs.

Business Attorney
02-07-2009, 07:57 AM
Although it is sometimes hard to do, I think one of the best way to get referrals is ... ASK.

An insurance agent I have used for years always ends our meetings with a request for names of anyone who might be interested in insurance. I don't like to give names like that (who wants a cold call from an insurance agent?) but it certainly lets me know he is interested in new business.

I have had several times where clients asked me if I minded them giving my name to someone who might need a business laywer. Mind? In those instances I wondered what message I was sending if they had to ask if I wanted new business.

The point is, however it works in your particular business, make sure that your clients get a clear message that you welcome and value their referrals!

Steve B
02-07-2009, 08:26 AM
Adding to what David said, if you send out any communication during the year to your clients - this is a good time to ask. I send out occasional e-mails with tips about keeping someone's dog safe. I'll have to think of a way to politely ask for referrals within these e-mails.

Earlier this year, I sent a real letter to my customers thanking them for choosing us - included a few tips on how to use the system properly, and I encouraged them to send me more referrals. I shared with them the fact that Customer Referrals are my #1 source of new business. And, I included as many business cards in the envelope as I could and still use a single stamp (I think it was three cards, 1 letter, and 1 brochure). This was kind of expensive - hopefully, it pays off. I tried to make it easy on them to make the referral.

One time I sent flowers to a lady that sent me three referrals within a couple weeks. All of them purchased a system!

Steve B
02-07-2009, 08:31 AM
I thought of another thing I do. This is kind of "referrals" or it could be called cross-marketing. I started a networking group of pet related businesses. We have lunch once a month and share ideas with each other. I take all of their brochures (actually "rack cards" in most cases) and stuff them in an envelope. The envelope is printed on the outside with "Other Pet Related Businesses we are Proud to Recommend". Then I give each member of the group a supply of envelopes to hand out to their customers and/or stuff in newspaper boxes when they are in a good sub-division.

billbenson
02-07-2009, 09:57 AM
Steve, I know your not big on the web thing, by why not start a .org site with pet safety tips. PetSafety.org or the likes. Could be a blog and get your networking group to post on their expertise. Give the money to local dog charities after costs. Obviously you stick some self promotion in there but subtly. Could be something that would grow over time, and invite new experts to start their own blog subject / section.

Maybe, rather than just give proceeds to local charities, ask to subsidize vet bills. Might be able to get some local vets to start blogging on the site.

Give honest dog trait answers. Look up any breed and the info will say "this is a very smart breed" BS. There are some breeds that are a lot smarter than others. A dog trainer also once told me that a dumb dog was much easier to train.

Could have a newsletter which should have better results than sending out emails?

Might not take that much time if you get your networking group and others involved.

Just a thought.

greenoak
02-14-2009, 08:59 AM
i like the ask part..and am getting used to doing it more...
..and i wouldnt ever want to look like i was offering to pay them....i want it sincere....
.but if a person brings me a good customer...here its usually a friend or fmily member, and they spend a lot...i try and give somoe freebie or fabulous deal to the person that brought the big spender...
in huggys business i think a great thing would be the magnets with a fun logo and his name and number......he could give one to the owner and leave another one on every waterheater he works on....then the people see his name every once in a while and might remember him when a friend needs a plumber...about everybody would save a good plumbers name....
ann

Paul Elliott
02-19-2009, 07:34 PM
i heard a new idea yesterday i think im going to try!

when you leave the job and hand them the bill- offer them 5 business cards to hand out in exchange for $20 off the bill. say "give these cards out to your friends if you are happy with the service i provided"

This is a variation of one of the "7 WOM Stimulants" below.

I suggest you use a hybrid since you are working in the blue/white collar communities. If the average homeowner doesn't know someone who can install a heater, then, his or her neighbor won't either.

Right after you have done the job, send a thank you note. About 2 weeks later send them box of candy or some flowers with 5 referral cards. Each card will have a number discretely printed on it that will identify the customer you have already helped. (Your printer can do this sequential numbering. Doesn't cost much.)

Ask them to pass the cards on to their friends. When you get a new customer contacting you, you send another box of candy or some flowers to the original customer.

It comes as a pleasant surprise. It is perhaps more palatable than a $20 bill to them. They don't feel they are being paid for the referral. Every year you can send them another 5 cards with a thank you note for their business.

Of course, this should NOT be your only mail contact with your customers through the year--think holidays, new year, 4th, Thanksgiving, etc. You MUST remind them that you are still around and that you were the one who did their work.

This needs to be a marketing program to which you can commit and continue year in year out. I have never seen it fail, but it is the rare business that does so.

Paul

Paul Elliott
02-19-2009, 07:43 PM
Although it is sometimes hard to do, I think one of the best way to get referrals is ... ASK.

I have had several times where clients asked me if I minded them giving my name to someone who might need a business laywer. Mind? In those instances I wondered what message I was sending if they had to ask if I wanted new business.

The point is, however it works in your particular business, make sure that your clients get a clear message that you welcome and value their referrals!

Excellent points, David. And a thank you note, Thanksgiving card, Holiday card, birthday card, anniversary card program is especially effective for attorneys.

Paul

IT-GUY
02-21-2009, 11:33 PM
1. For installation work you are doing for contractors, staple a businesscard to the inside frame of the kitchen cabinet near the disposal (not the cabinet door unless you get permission) and one at every sink trap and another to a joist near the water heater.

2. Have special purpose cards (a little larger) that say "Installed date_________. For free 12 month inspection call XXX-XXXX" Fill in the date and staple them to appropriate places near your installation.

3. Alternative: pre-printed metallic sticky labels with your phone number and "Installation date______ Free inspection" to stick next to manufacturers labels on all installed equipment.

4. Do one of the above at every homeowner call you make.

The point is, no-one is interested in a plumber until they need him. And where will their head be when they need a plumber? Usually inside a kitchen or bathroom cabinet or around the water heater!

Other businesses can adapt the above to their particular needs.


In my opinion, Spider has a great idea here. A lot of auto dealers will have their name on the back of the cars the sell. It is not really big or ugly. But it is there. I see them all of the time.

If I had water all over the floor and saw it dripping out of my water heater, but Oh look--- here's a plumber's phone number.. WOW:) I'll just call him and get this thing fixed! (Actually I am a DIY person.) But most people would make the call, unless already have a plumber.

Oh, not to discount anyone, but I don't expect my contractor friends to send me cards or flowers. I just want a fair price!

thx4yrtym
02-22-2009, 07:47 AM
It_Guy,

The sticker on the appliance is always a great idea.

Your comment "I don't expect...." is the reason Paul's idea of candy, cards, flowers etc works so well is many situations. When we do something like Paul suggests, folks really notice. They talk about it and they talk about what they bought. It's like having an ever growing part-time sales force.

I've talked before about my home improvement client who sent out over 30,000 postcards per year to homes around his job site. That's a heck of a lot of cards. He found this approach more productive than the Yellowpage ads.
He loved working on his computer and trying different things. All of that repetition of sending cards to the same neighborhoods created familiarity I guess and certainly added credibility.

In addition to the postcards he sent birthday cards to everyone without fail. In addition, he sent gifts for referrals. All of these things work. It's all in how you present the idea.

Best of luck,

Steve B
02-22-2009, 08:12 AM
I've talked before about my home improvement client who sent out over 30,000 postcards per year to homes around his job site. That's a heck of a lot of cards. He found this approach more productive than the Yellowpage ads.

Best of luck,

The cost of sending that many postcards is going to be between $10,500 and $15,500 per year (depending on size of card). Do you know if he covered that in profit? Did he send to the same 30,000 homes once a year, or did he send to 10,000 homes 3 times a year?

I love hearing specifics of post card campaigns. I read a lot about theories, but it's nice to hear about a real live example like this.

thx4yrtym
02-22-2009, 08:39 AM
Steve,

He sent out 100 to 150 cards to homes around each job. He sold replacement windows and replacement doors. He simply built the cost of the mailing into each job.

Like I said he liked to work with the computer. I got him started in excel and he ran with it. He became a good friend and we had many phone calls about his spreadsheets. He tracked everything.

After signing a contract on a job he would have his secretary pull names and addresses from a CD he purchased, based on the houses being close to the job just sold. He would import those names and addresses into my program and print out all of the cards. Card material was purchased from Four-of-a-Kind Postcards| Real Estate Post Card Marketing (http://pcforms.com/blank-postcards-fourofakind-postcards-c-46_47.html?osCsid=3fc106f3800cff50b3aed3c60072ed4e ) .

He almost always used the 4 up postcards and usually a red card. It stuck out in a stack of mail. I might have chosen a different color - but not white.

The card was simple , had the job site address in a big font that filled the length of the card. NO NAMES were used. Just the address.
The card said " watch for the beautiful new windows being installed at:
12345 Main street

For a free no obligation quote on energy efficient windows for your home call

2 months later he might sell another job a block away from this job but the areas often over lapped so folks might get 4,5,or 6 cards all looking the same over the coarse of 1 - 2 years.
I guess it became like a referral. If enough of your neighbors are buying new windows from this guy after going through their own process of getting quotes, bla bla bla, then this contractor must be good.

I don't think he ever did a blanket mailing of thousands of cards. And he did no other advertising, but did do various gifts for referrals.

He's been retired now about 2.5 years but if you would like to visit with him about any of this, I expect that he would be glad to visit with you.

Regards,

Steve B
02-22-2009, 09:09 AM
Thanks Gregg,

That's awesome detail. That seems like a much better approach than blanket postcards. I think the overlap of mailings combined with the implied referalls from the neighbors must have been very effective.

I'd love it if you PM'd me with contact information on him.

thx4yrtym
02-22-2009, 09:17 AM
Steve,

will do.

regards,

IT-GUY
02-22-2009, 09:20 AM
(Thx4yrtym)
Steve,

I think I may have received post cards at some time or another when someone on my street bought replacement windows. This is probably a great idea for that business model. Where you can actually drive by and see how nice something looks. Perhaps the best marketing tool for one business model could be the worst for another.

Steve B
02-22-2009, 09:27 AM
No doubt. But, I think I could make it work for my business too. Althought it's not quite as obvious a fit with a visible type of home improvement. But, they will be able to see the dog sitting patiently while lots of distractions walk by so I think it could work.

"One of your neighbors at _____ just began keeping his dog safe with a Derby's Pet Fence. He can rest assured that his dog will be safe ... blah, blah, blah"

IT-GUY
02-22-2009, 09:37 AM
No doubt. But, I think I could make it work for my business too.

Absolutely! Maybe "business model" is the wrong term. Your business is also one where the end results can be seen.
What if the product or service is inside the house? Such as new plumbing, a water heater replacement, or a repaired PC? That's why my comment a couple of posts back.

oops.. I didn't realize when this was posted that the pet fence was underground, electronic... I was thinking it could be seen.
sorry

thx4yrtym
02-22-2009, 10:22 AM
IT-Guy,

what if you created several referral pieces that can be e-mailed .

when you finish fixing their computer and they are back in business and there's that big smile on their face because they really didn't loose some really important pictures or data, you pull up several simple text files from your web site or off of a usb memory stick and ask if they would take a few minutes and forward a testimonial to 4 or 5 or a dozen folks in the area that might use your services to get out of a jam .
1. they don't have to stop and think about what to write - you did it for them.
2. you give them several choices .
3. the timing is such that you hit them at the moment they are most appreciative.

Worth a try??

regards,

thx4yrtym
02-22-2009, 10:27 AM
Steve,

Is there anyway you can drive by a yard where your fence is installed and tell that it is working without getting out of the vehicle?

Regards,

Steve B
02-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Sort of. Lots of dogs can be seen sitting and watching people go by. It's pretty obvious that something is keeping the dog in the yard. But, it's not like a picket fence or anything. This only works when the weather is nice and for the people that allow their dogs to be outside for long periods of time.

I do put a small permanent sign by the mailbox. Also, for the first two weeks there are white flags every ten feet around the perimeter (for training purposes). So, there are enough things to see at first for the people to know which yard I'm talking about and to take an opportunity to ask their neighbors if they were happy with the service.

thx4yrtym
02-22-2009, 11:27 AM
Steve,

Sorry I should have worded that differently. What I was getting at is this.

Is it possible for you to drive by the yard and with a meter or something tell from readings that the system is active ? My thought was that if you had a way to report to the homeowner that on such and such date and time you checked their system and it was functioning correctly. Perhaps they could be notified by email or a card periodically that their system is in fact functioning. I would wonder maybe after a bad storm or something if it was still functioning.
Just another way for you to keep people thinking about you.

If you actually have to walk the yard then it gets to be just a bit more time consuming.

Regards,

IT-GUY
02-22-2009, 09:19 PM
IT-Guy,

what if you created several referral pieces that can be e-mailed .

when you finish fixing their computer and they are back in business and there's that big smile on their face because they really didn't loose some really important pictures or data, you pull up several simple text files from your web site or off of a usb memory stick and ask if they would take a few minutes and forward a testimonial to 4 or 5 or a dozen folks in the area that might use your services to get out of a jam .
1. they don't have to stop and think about what to write - you did it for them.
2. you give them several choices .
3. the timing is such that you hit them at the moment they are most appreciative.

Worth a try??

regards,

Thanks Gregg. That sounds like a good idea. I just checked out your Website & it is quite impressive.