I don't like traveling to local clients. Is that wrong?

[Harold Mansfield]

I don't do any marketing, advertising or solicitation of local clients at all. Any place where I'm listed my service area is Nationwide. I don't even use a local area code.

The reason is...that every time I have traveled across town to meet with a local client it wastes the day, nothing gets accomplished other than a meeting because I obviously need to be on my computer to do any work or show them anything, and I've gotten so used to dealing with clients all over the country and some parts of the world that I'm just not into interviewing in person for web work.

It just sets a precendent that you will have to go to that office a couple more times during the project and it just drags the whole thing out and costs me extra time and money.

Some people say that's short sighted of me, but I barely loose 1 possible lead a year because of it.

I was wondering if anyone else refrains from running all over town to meet people, when so much more can be accomplished by actually NOT meeting in person?

[Freelancier]

I have local clients and remote clients. The local clients I tend to see about once every 2-3 years. Everything is done remotely unless it'll go faster to sit with them.

I don't limit my new client decisions by location. I base them on:

1. is their project interesting?
2. is the size of the initial project at least $20K?

The second one limits the tire-kickers more than the first, of course. It also creates a powerful reward if I land the client, so it makes taking a few hours away from my desk worthwhile.

[Harold Mansfield]

I think the part that just doesn't interest me is "Interviewing" for the job. I'm just not into driving across town in 100 degree heat for a cattle call of web designers.
3 years ago? Probably. Today, not so much. Not at this price point, for a temporary contract.

If I was doing $20k websites, sure no problem.

But such meetings have never proven to be fruitful. As a matter of fact, the last 3 local clients that I took on and had to go meet first, didn't turn out so well and resulted in multiple office trips that wasted my time.

[billbenson]

Computers and the internet have eliminated the need for field sales to a large degree. The efficiency of working from home is far greater. Having said that, its nice to get out of the house once and a while. Make a lunch meeting every here and there to break your schedule up? It'll also improve your presentation skills.

[Freelancier]

Not at this price point, for a temporary contract.

And that's the thing about understanding your business model. If you know that there's not much return on an activity, then you don't do it. In some instances, it's worth it, and in other instances, it's not. That's why I say that in marketing there are few absolutes beyond "know your best customer and how to reach them."

[Wozcreative]

I generally don't interview for jobs.. unless its a big corporation, then it's worth it if I can get them as a client. I don't enjoy traveling to clients either. I also don't enjoy having clients meet me either.. it just means I have to get ready, shower, dress up, look presentable just to pick up money and small talk. I do have a boardroom in the condominium I can meet clients if I must, but it's rare. I get very discouraged if I have to meet up with them.

I have a strange schedule sometimes where I have to drive a family member to work in the mornings and back home in the evenings... then there is another family member who is really sick, who I have to drive regularly to doctors appointments of all types. This puts enough strain on my life where I don't feel like I have control over my own schedule enough.. to have a client want me to meet up just so they can tell me they want a brochure.. is a waste of my time and I get discouraged.

I will usually just tell them that it would be best to discuss the project over the phone to see if it is even a good fit. Most clients will give in and go over the phone in detail about the projects. I also tell them I'm not available to meet until a week from now, so then they will say ok lets talk on the phone. I had a subborn client once that wanted to meet, I was frank with him and told him that it generally eats up about 4 hours of my day. I also drive a Dodge nitro that eats up a lot of gas.. paying for parking.. finding the place.. just for a 20 minute talk about the brochure. Unless it is a website, which I can find stuff to talk about.. organizing content, who is involved with what, how I will setup the pages etc... then I won't do it otherwise.

I had yet another client who kept coming back to me via phoen and email telling me oh i forgot this, oh and this, oh and this.. so logo brief kept changing.. his last response was "this would have been easier if we met up"... no it wouldnt... no one has their geese in line during meetings. Never. Ever.

Anyway, I don't blame you.. maybe it's because I have gotten a lot more hermitty lately, but I just don't enjoy making the effort to go see people if theres alternatives and I can make $ better.

[Harold Mansfield]

... it just means I have to get ready, shower, dress up, look presentable just to pick up money and small talk
Yep, that's part of it too.


.. to have a client want me to meet up just so they can tell me they want a brochure.. is a waste of my time and I get discouraged.

Exactly. You need a brochure? I already have one that you can download. Everything you need to know about me, reviews, testimonials, past work, rates, articles and blog posts, social media profiles....everything, is online. I have nothing physical to show you that doesn't involve a computer and an internet connection.



... no one has their geese in line during meetings. Never. Ever.

EVER! And you're correct, it's at least 4 hours away from my desk, my computer, my tools, and all of my resource and reference material that I need to answer questions....just to talk about things that are already online for them.

The last local meeting I had, first I had to wait 20 minutes to see the guy, and then we actually sat in the guy's office and talked about my website for over an hour.

And that's what these meetings always are.

It's not like I'm an interior designer and I'm bringing by carpet and tile samples, paint splotches and cloth patches for you to feel.

[Wozcreative]

I've worked with "design consultants" where they'd be the middle men.. they made sooo many meetings for all these really minuscule questions they had, and wanted to meet me as well to go over something like a color of a logo.. really... how do these people make money to feed themselves?

[Brian Altenhofel]

I meet up with most of my clients at least once a quarter. But most of my clients aren't "build it and ship it" - it's ongoing and constantly evolving work. Even if it's just for a 5 o'clock beer, I'll meet up to find out how I've been helping them, ask what ideas they have had recently, and perhaps share some ideas of my own.

Now, face-to-face interviews/meetings with new contacts - I only do if the initial project has a high enough budget and/or the likely return from on-going work will be worth it.

As for other "stupid" meetings during the project life cycle, I normally bill for meetings and Skype/Hangouts, with face-to-face meetings getting my travel time both ways included.

[Freelancier]

As for other "stupid" meetings during the project life cycle, I normally bill for meetings and Skype/Hangouts, with face-to-face meetings getting my travel time both ways included.

And that's how you make that activity worthwhile... and also put a value on it for the client. But if you fixed-bid the project, it's not something you can do... or pre-plan well without bloating the budget.

[LGCG]

Based on what I see on the thread, it seems like most people in similar positions to yours don't always meet with clients in person. I don't know if it's necessary in your line of work.

[Brian Altenhofel]

And that's how you make that activity worthwhile... and also put a value on it for the client. But if you fixed-bid the project, it's not something you can do... or pre-plan well without bloating the budget.

Yep. That and giving the client flexibility is why I don't do fixed-bid projects.

[Dan Furman]

Count me as another who does zero local marketing. I also have no patience for people who want to "meet in person" - that means they are probably a technophobe, meaning we're a bad match anyway. I'll make an exception for a huge job, but to write your brochure? No, we don't need to meet, unless you're buying lunch. And even then, it's a stretch. I'm a lousy "in-person" networker.

The dress up thing is another one. I'm at the point where t-shirt and jeans is dressed up for me :)

[Brian Altenhofel]

The dress up thing is another one. I'm at the point where t-shirt and jeans is dressed up for me :)

I normally wear untucked golf shirts or untucked loose fitting button downs, but that's my normal public attire anyway.

I used to suck at in-person networking and avoided it, until I found that that's where the money is in web development. And then I picked up Scotch and cigars - both of which are a great help for me.

[billbenson]

The dress up thing is another one. I'm at the point where t-shirt and jeans is dressed up for me :)

Funny. Since I lost my outside sales career in 1998 I've only worn a tie once and that was my dad's funeral. I'd like to personally kick the person who invented the tie repeatedly where it 'really hurts'. What a useless piece of attire. Think about the cops that have to wear them in various parts of the country. It's a handle to choke them???? I still have a suit that fits me from back then although it was large on me back then... A formal shirt (I have one) and a formal pair of pants (I have one) is really no big deal. Just gotta send them to the cleaners (I don't iron and my wife will only iron her hair).

I'm in Florida which like California is a lot more casual than other parts of the country. There is a more casual trend in the US starting with the first Bush presidency. i.e. frequently no tie. Today a large number of companies just have you wear a shirt embroidered with a company logo. During Christmes get a few shirts done at the mall. I think that is a good idea.

Having said that, you will find me in shorts, no shirt at the desk :)

[Steve B]

Actually - casual started with Ronald Reagon who was the first president that I remember that was routinely seen without a suit. He even gave some speeches and conducted other official business in a polo type shirt.

[Freelancier]

Actually - casual started with Ronald Reagon who was the first president that I remember that was routinely seen without a suit. He even gave some speeches and conducted other official business in a polo type shirt.

And here I thought "casual" started with me when I started wearing jorts in public. :D

[Harold Mansfield]

Well, I live in the desert and I think I have one pair of pants that aren't jeans...not counting old suits from when I drove a limo but I haven't even tried to see if they still fit. Frankly, anyone who wears long pants out here between May-October is crazy.

I spent enough of my life wearing suits, "office attire", and uniforms. I'm done.

I'm fine with a polo and have thought about getting a few made, but other than that I don't have a presentation or interview mode anymore. I can surely bust it out when needed, but so far I haven't needed to.

[KristineS]

Casual clothes are even becoming standard at a lot of corporations. I can't tell you the last time I wore a suit with a skirt. I'm sure that's not universal, but I'm seeing it in more and more places.

[Dan Furman]

Funny. Since I lost my outside sales career in 1998 I've only worn a tie once and that was my dad's funeral. I'd like to personally kick the person who invented the tie repeatedly where it 'really hurts'. What a useless piece of attire.


I have noticed a huge shift in the tie thing over the last decade. It appears it is perfectly acceptable to even go to a funeral or wedding sans tie (the only guys wearing ties are the old timers). But for people 50-ish and younger... button down shirt, top button undone, sport jacket... that's a very common "dress up" look these days. I actually pull off the jeans / sport jacket thing pretty well, but I'll still break out the slacks for a funeral.

Pretty sure I've worn my last tie, though. Ever.

[Paul]

I do agree with you! I don’t do local work either (except family reference), but even that I try to avoid. I’m a big proponent of the phone, a great device! Between that and the internet I can get things done quickly. Large projects may require face to face but standard projects can be done just fine without.

[Harold Mansfield]

Darn it. Got another one yesterday. I kind of caved and said if it's absolutely neccessary I'll consider it, but for the most part let my feelings be known strongly that such meetings are usually a hindrance to progress and that I'm not interested in interviewing for the work. I don't do cattle calls.

Plainly, you aren't hiring me for my interviewing skills and I don't have a 10 minute slide show presentation of things that can be accessed on the web in seconds.

[Wozcreative]

My favourite is "We'd like you to come in so we can see your portfolio and talk about what your capabilities are."
Um i think my website says it all. They may have a few additional questions, but nothing to drive over there for, give me a call or send me an email.

[Harold Mansfield]

My favourite is "We'd like you to come in so we can see your portfolio and talk about what your capabilities are."
.

This is the part that I don't get with these kinds of people? What exactly are they expecting me to show them? Am I supposed to create some kind of brochure or slideshow presentation of things that are already online? Do they want me to print out screenshots of my portfolio?

I've already decided. If you need me to physically be in front of you to repeat what you are seeing online right in front of your face and hearing on the phone in order to understand it, then I'm pretty sure I can't work with you....unless you just want me to charge you 10x's the cost to act like a large agency with too much overhead from the 1970's, and take 6 months to build your website. Cause I can do that.

The other thing is, you know that if you are going to an office, that there is going to be more than one person in charge of the project. Which will make it a nightmare. The last time I went to a meeting I was introduced to 3 other people who were going to be my "point persons". It took 3 months longer than it had to, to finish that project...meaning that I pretty much made squat on it compared to the amount of time I spent on it.

When you handle everything by phone and email, it's with one person. If a second person tries to start giving direction by email, it's easier to cut them off and send them through the point person.

Larger companies don't realize that they create the problems that cost them more money because they have too many people doing the same thing.

[Freelancier]

A few years back, I had a contract as a company's CTO. My job was to assemble a team, give them direction, monitor their results, etc. Some VC's had just dropped a bit of money into their till, so they were on a hiring binge and I was the point-person for that effort.

So I get a resume from this person, seemed like a good candidate to talk with. I call him on the phone. Talk for an hour with this nice guy, pretty knowledgeable during the discussion, slight accent, so I could understand him well. So we set up an in-person interview time so he can meet with me and maybe another person. The interview time comes and in comes the candidate. Thick accent. Doesn't seem to know technology at all. Hmmm... Bait and switch. Never seen that trick before or since, but it was amazing to watch it unfold.

So when someone says "they want to meet with me to go over my work... I just think of it as a meeting to go over THEIR needs and to talk a little about what I've done that I can't put on the web site (like the time I was working to program a high-pressure boiler while I was in a pre-fab control room right next to the boiler wondering if a screw-up would be fatal). And to make sure I'm real. Of course, part of that decision is the minimum project size I require.

My wife has a company that does compensation statements. She'll still get calls from HR people at a company with 15 employees who want to see if her web-based application will do what it says it will do. And that's for an order that will cost the HR person between $15 and $30 (on a credit card where they can reverse the charge if it fails). Seriously?!? She puts up with those calls, because there are enough calls from HR people at companies with 500+ employees to make it worthwhile.

So... there are no absolutes when it comes to marketing and sales other than... make it work for you to get the clients you want to have.

[Harold Mansfield]

So I get a resume from this person, seemed like a good candidate to talk with. I call him on the phone. Talk for an hour with this nice guy, pretty knowledgeable during the discussion, slight accent, so I could understand him well. So we set up an in-person interview time so he can meet with me and maybe another person. The interview time comes and in comes the candidate. Thick accent. Doesn't seem to know technology at all. Hmmm... Bait and switch. Never seen that trick before or since, but it was amazing to watch it unfold.


Never seen that before either, but nothing surprises me anymore.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't understand that they want to get that warm and fuzzy feeling and actually shake someone's hand. I get that. But when 99.9% of my work and clients are spread across the country and sometimes the world, and AREN'T that needy, it's hard to accept and want to make the time before I even know anything about the project or even if they are actually hiring me.

Besides, many of these find me via Angie's List where it plainly states that this is a digital product/service (because apparently that's not obvious), that I service the entire U.S. and DO NOT come to your location, nor do you come to mine. Communication is done by what ever online option you are comfortable with.

If one of my local calls would say something like "we want to hire you, but we'd like to meet first", I may have a different opinion. But primarily, these are people just interviewing web designers and I'm just not up for a cattle call in 100 degree heat.