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billbenson
01-21-2009, 08:19 PM
I'm going through the wordpress tutorial: First Steps With WordPress WordPress Codex (http://codex.wordpress.org/First_Steps_With_WordPress)

I've never used wordpress before, so excuse stupid questions.

I uploaded a new theme. I go to the dashboard and select change theme in the center top section or appearance in the left column. I select a theme, either the one I uploaded or one of the preinstalled ones. It show the selected them, but if I open up the index page in the site in a new tab, the defaut theme is still there, so the theme has not been changed, its just showing a sample of the new theme in the admin section.

How do you actually change the theme. I tried clearing cache BTW.

Never Mind - I didn't see the activate link in the upper right corner.

orion_joel
01-21-2009, 10:07 PM
You need to select apply theme in the top right hand corner of the preview when it opens up.

vangogh
01-21-2009, 10:33 PM
Bill if you're interested WordPress just put up a new site with video tutorials at WordPress.tv (http://wordpress.tv/). I haven't watched any yet, but I assume the videos are well done.

billbenson
01-21-2009, 11:36 PM
Thanks Joel, I found it after I posted. I also figured there might be some lurkers here interested in trying WP, so a thread on the subject may be appropriate.

The video is good VG. There were actually 4 videos there. Seems like a work in progress where they will be adding more videos. For anybody just thinking about using it, take a look at the videos. It shows how easy the program is to use for a number of features.

Having played with Joomla and used oscommerce for years, the online support and clean design is really pretty amazing. You still need to learn it, but its really well done. One of the things that surprised me is how few db tables there are. Just a handful. I'm sure plugins all add tables, but its a clean simple design. I think I have 92 tables in my oscommerce site - I've written a bunch of specialized ones though.

vangogh
01-22-2009, 01:33 AM
The .tv site is very new. I think it launched sometime this week and I assume more videos will be coming. Good to know you liked them. I'll have to take a peek. The site has a feed so you can follow along when new videos come out if you want to subscribe.

The Codex is great. It's usually my first stop whenever I have a question. Sometimes you run across a page that's incomplete or talking about an older version of WordPress, but most of the pages are very good and there are about a dozen I'm constantly referring back to.

So much better than osCommerce. I have one client using osCommerce and it's often several hours of wading through forum posts to even find out what I should have been searching for in the first place. Not fun at all.

billbenson
01-22-2009, 02:48 AM
Oscommerece is horrible, but I think I've said that elsewhere. My site is buggy, but I'm just trying to convert to Zen Cart on that one. The table structure is the same so it makes that easier than using a different cart.

I made it through the initial tutorial for wp this evening and its pretty straightforward. Took a look at where stuff was added or changed in the db as I was doing it. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I think looking at how templates work is probably my next step.

vangogh
01-22-2009, 10:50 AM
I agree with you about osCommerce and it does make sense to move to Zen Cart for the db. Be aware that Zen Cart is still mostly put together like osCommerce.

You should be fine moving on to templates with WordPress. I'm not sure there's a particular order you need to go. At some point you'll just start using it and looking things up when you have a question.

billbenson
01-22-2009, 02:04 PM
Ya, I think I'll play with templates and then add plugins that I have seen recommended here and on another forum by a heavy wp user. After that I'll start adding posts. As I initially want to use it for some product manuals, I'll get it looking similar to my store site with some good manuals and then move it over to the store from my practice site.

In other words category 1 will be product X Manual, category 2 product y manual etc. Not a real difficult way to start out.

A couple of questions:

Do you tend to just use the html editor in the program or do you write you post in code, dreamweaver etc and paste it in there?

Can you imbed php in a post, say an include or something more complicated?

Can a post contain JavaScript?

I didn't think to backup the initial install db before I started messing with the program. Is there an easy way to take it back to its original empty db (when I first installed it) or is it easiest to just run install again?

Do you find that you spend much time editing / doing much in phpmyadmin or does the programs interface do most of what you need? For example, for oscommerce I either write a script that does something I need or I use phpmyadmin. phpmyadmin is always open on my pc. Product description error, price error, put something in bold etc., phpmyadmin is much faster.

vangogh
01-22-2009, 03:12 PM
I write my own code directly. I never use a WYSIWYG editor of any kind. I always work in html view and type the code directly. You don't need to type everything. If you leave a space between paragraphs, WordPress will wrap <p> tags around them. But I'll add html tags when I want a heading or I want to add a list of if I specifically want to add a div or a class to a paragraph.

You can't embed php directly in posts, but there are some plugins that will let you. By default it won't work, but the plugins add the functionality. Same thing with JavaScript. You'll need a plugin, but then you'll be able to add JavaScript.

I'm hardly ever in phpmyadmin when it comes to WordPress. Other than to fix something that's gone awry there's really no need. WordPress will export your database as an xml file and import similarly. If it's faster for you to use phpmyadmin you might still end up doing that, but you probably won't need to.

Harold Mansfield
01-25-2009, 12:29 PM
The plug in to add php into a page or post is here (http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/exec-php/).

If am not mistaken, Google ads are java script, and those embed fine without a plug in.

As far as using outside editors. I don't. I have found that many of them, distort the post in some way. The available editors in word press work just fine for me. I may use just a simple notepad if I need to.

vangogh
01-25-2009, 12:41 PM
Exec-php conflicts with one other plugin I use so for the moment I have it disabled until I can figure out a workaround I'm happy with. Exec-php works well though. Bill it's probably the plugin you want.

For writing posts I've been using the Scribefire plugin for Firefox (http://www.scribefire.com/). Works pretty well, though I have download some editors and may try one or two.

billbenson
01-25-2009, 06:03 PM
Thanks eborg. You are correct, adsense is js. I don't use a lot of js, but I do for a few things like contact us links so the spam bots don't get it.

If I do something like a table, its quick to do in dreamweaver, then I move it to a text editor and take out the DW stuff and do a search and replace for <tr> to <tr class = bubba> or whatever. I also find I do a lot of excel to text editor editing. Particularly with php, but something like tables would be easy to develop in excel. Move them to a text editor and do a search and replace for for tabs and add the css.

I know a chick who does all her web development in excel. But she knows excel REALLY well.

orion_joel
01-25-2009, 09:30 PM
I cannot imagine doing web development in Excel. I could understand how some pieces could work eg if you have a lot of different properties that you want to string together in different orders for different tags, using the CONCATERNATE function. But all of it, gees.

vangogh
01-25-2009, 09:53 PM
I can't understand why anyone would do web development in anything other than a basic code editor. Seems to me it would always take longer any other way.

seolman
01-26-2009, 01:04 AM
I think WordPress is just such a breeze to work with. So easy to add a plug-in, switch it on and add functionality. Now that I know there's a shopping cart plug-in (a la a Vangogh post) I'm a bit curious how well it functions...:)

May be checking that out too.

billbenson
01-26-2009, 05:28 AM
All I can say is she was very competent in excel. Remember that large companies have teams of excel programmers. It's a very powerful program and most of us only know the basics. I can certainly see it for someone that really knows excel. She knew VB as well, so I'm sure she had set up some very specific code. I have an excel file with snippets of code. I suspect it was that on steroids.

vangogh
01-26-2009, 11:01 AM
But Excel isn't an html editor so no matter what you're going to have to convert the excel document into something else. She might be great at Excel, but she's still creating extra steps in the process and I'd be willing to be that the final html isn't nearly as good.

It's like saying someone is really good with a screw driver so they use it to place nails in a wall. The person may be truly skilled with a screw driver to the point where they can use one to drive a nail faster and better than anyone else can with a screwdriver. Still it would be better to pick up a hammer to drive the nail.

billbenson
01-26-2009, 11:10 PM
Then a text editor isn't an html editor either and fits the same analogy. I don't know what she was doing. For php, I keep snippets of php in an excel file. I can pretty much have an entire page written minus content using those snippets. A lot of those snippets include html such as the head section. In a way like using templates in DW which never worked well. Writing everything by hand doesn't make sense either when you can cut and past reused or modified code.

I don't know anybody who doesn't end up using a multiapplication approach frequently?

vangogh
01-26-2009, 11:13 PM
Well an html editor is really a hyper text editor. When I say html editor I mostly mean a basic text editor with syntax highlighting. The other features I like are FTP so I can edit files on the server live and I'm getting into saving snippets so I can reuse code.

But the page is still just created with simple text that's typed in.

I know things like DreamWeaver seem to make things easier, but once you spend enough time typing the code directly you can hand code a site faster than someone else can using a WYSIWYG.

seolman
01-26-2009, 11:23 PM
Well an html editor is really a hyper text editor. When I say html editor I mostly mean a basic text editor with syntax highlighting. The other features I like are FTP so I can edit files on the server live and I'm getting into saving snippets so I can reuse code.

But the page is still just created with simple text that's typed in.

I know things like DreamWeaver seem to make things easier, but once you spend enough time typing the code directly you can hand code a site faster than someone else can using a WYSIWYG.

Amen to that :)

vangogh
01-26-2009, 11:47 PM
I'm using Coda (http://www.panic.com/coda/) now as my editor. It's a mac only editor and it costs a bit more than I wanted to pay, but it's the best editor I've used anywhere and I'm glad I shelled out the money.

seolman
01-26-2009, 11:51 PM
Coda is fantastic - did I tell you I finally broke down and bought a copy?

vangogh
01-26-2009, 11:54 PM
No I didn't know you had. I downloaded the two week trial and thought maybe I'll find something cheaper before the trial ran out. A day in and I knew I was going to buy. It's everything I want in an editor without all the extra stuff I don't need.

You can tell it was developed by people who actually build websites and web applications.

seolman
01-26-2009, 11:57 PM
Exactly what happened to me. The crooks. They suck you in by making letting you use it for 2 weeks :(

vangogh
01-27-2009, 12:04 AM
And making it so good you know you can't go back to anything else. A few hours use and I was ruined for all other editors.

You know they make other products too. I'm afraid to download the trials though since I know I'll end up buying them Desktastic (http://www.panic.com/desktastic/) looks cool and it's only $12.95

seolman
01-27-2009, 12:17 AM
I'm afraid to try anything else. These guys are good. Within a few days of buying Coda I had so many sites and snippets in the thing I'm practically married to it...

vangogh
01-27-2009, 12:26 AM
I'm building in snippets left and right. I'm hoping to turn web development into a few selected clicks with a little customization on top.

billbenson
01-27-2009, 01:22 AM
Going back to your excel comment. Say you have a 100 row table.
Col A <tr class= bubba>
Column B is content
col C is </tr>

Replicate col a and C down and you have your table

Then you plop it into a text editor and remove tabs and extranous spaces and you have you html.

I use the table as an example, but I use the same concept for php a lot. $_post for example. I might be posting a bunch of items from a form. Excel is a great design tool.

I pretty much only use DW for tables which you can do quickly and search and replace. My DW is 2003. CBC Steve thinks the new version has value.

There really isn't a right and wrong. It's whatever style / system works for you. Eventually you need to learn to code though. Even DW which is probably the best html editor out there puts out garbage code.

vangogh
01-27-2009, 01:56 AM
Bill as another option you could import your excel file into a database and write a couple lines of php and have the data displayed.

I can appreciate what you're saying about excel, but I think there are better ways to build a web page. You're also describing a specific kind of site. Most sites won't begin life as data in an excel file.

Now if you happen to have all your info start in Excel (which I think you do start with) I can see how the method your describing makes things easy. It's an easy way to wrap a table around our data. Still you're not using Excel to create the css or add an programming. You're still taking everything into an editor. Interesting idea though for certain kinds of sites.

billbenson
01-27-2009, 06:48 AM
You have to understand that what I do, which is make sites for myself, is very different than what you do which is make sites for others. In general, most of my sites can have the same look and feel Take a template of sorts and change the logo and some colors and start adding content.

It certainly is quick to copy and paste snippets to a text editor. Change the meta tags to match the new site and title and you you are done with the head section.

I typically go from excel snippits -> text editor -> php editor. It's very rare that I don't have some php on a page. It's not a time consuming process. I would also try to use the same css with modifications each time.

You are looking at it from a designers perspective which is completely different. I suspect you need to do a unique design for everyone or at least have a family of designs that you can draw from.

vangogh
01-27-2009, 11:05 AM
I can understand how it works for you. I know you deal in Excel data a lot and seeing your description above it makes sense for you. Definitely not knocking what you're saying. It's actually a nice solution to your particular situation.

Wouldn't work as well developing the template, but getting your data into an existing template it does make sense.

I might still try to move the excel data to a mysql or other database and work with it that way. I think it might end up giving your more options over how to use the date, but maybe that's just me. Sorry if anything I said above made it sound like I thought what you were doing wasn't good. I think it is in your situation. It's not a general solution for all, but it's a solution for people like yourself dealing with a lot of excel data.