Food Truck is Affecting My Business

[sbm]

Hello. Any help/advice regarding my situation would be greatly appreciated.

Recently an ice cream truck has been parking directly in front of my grocery during the mid-afternoon in order to attract the nearby kids from the school around the corner. I believe that at first he attempted to park in front of the school but the school traffic officer wouldn't allow it. So this person decided to do his business in front of my store weekdays at around the time school is out.

Is there any way we can get rid of him? It's really frustrating as we've been losing customers to this vendor. Business is not so great in general these days and rent is hard to pay off as is; it's driving me crazy how this truck is affecting us.

Some of us already had a polite talk with the owner about this but he refuses to move. What else can we do? Get confrontational? Park my car in that particular spot during that hour? Can the police intervene? If it helps, I'm in NYC. I assume there are no laws regarding things like this? I've thought of all kinds of ideas but I really don't know what to do and am desperate!

Please, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Steve B]

"I assume there are no laws regarding things like this?"

Why would you assume this? You live in a very regulated part of the country. If I were you, I'd find out if his vendor license is current and what rules he must follow to be a street vendor in your area.

[robinmark]

hello there i don't know too much NYC lows but for your problem one thing you can do make a NO PARKING sign board and put them on that spot i think this will help you. And if someone asking about this then tell them that police put this.

[nealrm]

Check to see if he is doing everything legal. If he is, this is the nature of competition in a free society, he has the same rights to sell his products as you. Try bettering him at his own game, open an outdoor register selling similar items and undercut his prices prices. It shouldn't take long before he decides that moving would be more profitable than a price war.

[huggytree]

look into the law....thats 1st

2nd.....the easy solution is to put all your employees cars in his spot


a 3rd solution is to bring out your OWN ice cream stand....sell ice cream at cost for a few hours while this guy is there.....you break even and get rid of him

be his direct competitor, but sell for less than him




if ice cream sells so well you may find having a mini ice cream stand in front of your business to be a big draw and a extra profit maker in the future (once you get rid of the competition)

[Wozcreative]

Regarding the ice cream stand, you will have to find out if your landlord allows this, usually they won't allow you to go beyond what your store limits are. You can also try to contact your business landlord about this guy "loitering"—this is profit missed out for your landlord too and he may want to be aware because it is private property!

[billbenson]

look into the law....thats 1st

2nd.....the easy solution is to put all your employees cars in his spot


a 3rd solution is to bring out your OWN ice cream stand....sell ice cream at cost for a few hours while this guy is there.....you break even and get rid of him

be his direct competitor, but sell for less than him




if ice cream sells so well you may find having a mini ice cream stand in front of your business to be a big draw and a extra profit maker in the future (once you get rid of the competition)

I like your solutions Huggy

[sbm]

Thank you for the replies. I've read them all and truly appreciate it.

Actually it turns out that the rule for my street is "no standing except trucks UNLOADING/LOADING 10am - 4pm." He is breaking this rule and standing there illegally. When the employees at my store asked him to move last week, he laughed and said he doesn't care. Judging from his rude attitude, he seems to intentionally stay in front of our store just to spite us.

So today I went to the police. One cop told us that he'd come over to speak with the driver. At first I didn't even have to mention the street rule - he seemed to empathize with our situation and was willing to help. Then when I spoke about the no standing sign, he informed us that, yes, him being there was really not allowed since he's not a delivery truck.

Unfortunately, I waited hours for this officer, even phoned him several times out of desperation and he said he'd be there. Well, he never showed up! :( I was so upset.

I understand that there's no law against this type of competition but still, it's pretty much an unspoken rule here. There are so many ice cream trucks in my neighborhood but not a single one will park in front of a grocery, ice cream, frozen yogurt, or any competing shop. We are losing so many customers to this vendor. There is no support or empathy for small businesses in this city, especially in my neighborhood. There is this misconception that these owners are rich when, in reality, we are losing out on so much money. I have to pay the ridiculously high rent, taxes, and unfair fines to the city for doing a business there while he gets to just illegally stand there and do business without having to pay for any of these.

Oh, I never knew that this could be considered as "loitering" for the landlord! That's great. But my landlord doesn't speak fluent English and never wants to deal with any problems. This is so frustrating.

What's worse is that the usual ice cream truck driver was not there today and was replaced a really attractive lady (his wife?). My store's employees - all male - tried to tell her off again today but instead ended up kind of flirting with her.

Overall this was just a bad day. I know cops are busy people but I was so disappointed he never showed up. What now? I guess I have to make another trip to the police station again.

[nealrm]

I wouldn't put too much hope in getting the police to hurry over and issue a parking ticket. They have more pressing matters to attend to. Since he is parked on a public street, there is nothing the landlord can do. The police will need to be the ones to make him move.

You are going to have to make the site unattractive for his business. Have you employees stand out front with sandwich board advertising the ice cream at prices significantly below his. You have other products that bring in profits, he has only one. If he starts losing money on that one product, he will be forced to move or forced out of business.

[BNB]

This is easy. Call the police station until someone shows up. Not showing up to enforce the law is totally unacceptable. Speak with a Sergeant or other supervisor.

As others have said, I would just go out there, pop up a sign and undersell him. Don't roll over. The driver is clearly a scumbag and you need to be aggressive. There is nothing wrong with competition, we actually get along with many of our competitors, but in this case it's both unfair, illegal, and rude.

[billbenson]

I'd keep bugging the cops. Maybe stand behind his truck a block and wave down a passing cop.

You can also talk to the media. We have a local TV station that loves stories like this.

Just keep at it. You'll eventually get him out of there.

[Dan Furman]

Document every interaction with the police.

Document that they don't show.

Document that the guy is still there. Take pictures with today's paper in the shot.

Let the cops know you are documenting all of this, and keep a tally on how much business you feel it is costing you. Threaten to go to City Hall.

Call the Daily News and the Post - they LOVE this kind of @#$%. Paint yourself as the little guy getting hurt by illegal activity.

NYC is actually pretty strict on this. Make a stink and it will get resolved.

[huggytree]

police are busy solving murders and robberies.....they dont have time for you to fix your ice cream problem.....

solve it yourself....take my advice and ill bet its solved within 1-2 weeks

sell ice cream for less than him!!!!!

you may find this extra business to be profitable and this guy may be doing you a favor

if the police wont help then its your only other option



your problem is easily solved

[sbm]

Thank you guys all for the help and advice you've offered! It's all been very helpful, really. Everything has been solved. It's makes me a little nervous though; the ice cream lady and I did not end on a good note. I hope she's not crazy, taking her anger out on us in the future or anything. We're friendly with our neighboring businesses but this vendor was just ridiculous.

Here's the thing about undercutting prices - there's no way we can go below the vendor's usual $1-2 per ice cream. We would hardly make any profit. We don't even get most of our ice creams from distributors for that cheap! Price-wise, our products are a little on the high end due to our location. We're in an expensive neighborhood so of course our prices correlate with this. That's the only way we can pay for the high rent/taxes. Our nearby competitors do the same. There's no way we'd still be in business if we start matching/undercutting an ice cream truck. No ice cream shop in this area would ever survive if they resorted to this method. Maybe in a different place but not here, unfortunately. Thanks for this suggestion though. Setting up our own ice cream stand outside is a good idea regardless.

Here in this city, I doubt that all these insane amount of cops patrolling the area are too busy with murders and robberies. There's a hefty amount of traffic cops outside who roam the area multiple times solely giving out tickets all day. I'm just surprised that none of them flagged this truck on their own. Huh.

I never even thought about the Daily News/NYPost or getting any media involved. That would've been smart! I fear, however, that the general audience would rather pity the "poor" ice cream truck driver rather than the "privileged" business owner (or some other false conception). Apparently, according to one of our employees, the truck owners are not very well-off.

Here's what happened: I got in touch with the cop from yesterday. It turns out he DID show up yesterday but just drove by when he realized that she was technically not doing anything wrong. Yet, he said the truck was standing there illegally and to resolve that, I'd have to find a patrol/ticketing cop because he personally can't ticket her. Frustrated, I approached another officer today. I told him about the no standing sign and he actually went over there immediately! He warned her that if she does not want a summons, she should leave asap. She pleaded with him but he told her to go. The officer then said that I should avoid any talk with her and just call 911 or his # if she returns.

As soon as he left, she came into our store, says she knows I'm the one who reported her, glares at me, and leaves. Then she proceeded to do business! Can you believe it?! Then she yells at me, saying she doesn't understand why I called the police (the officer just spoke with you! And do you not see the no standing sign...??) and that's when we got into a verbal fight. She then called her husband while I called 911. One minute she's glaring at me, the next minute she's weeping when the cop approaches her. Nice, pulling the crying card, I see. She pleads with him, too, but eventually, she leaves. According to the cop, she accused me of being nasty and disrespectful to her. Well, hello, you did the same to me and you even initiated it.

BTW, I'm not the only one who called 911 on her. The school nearby couldn't get her to leave their property a while back so they also had to call the police to force her out. There are so many ice cream trucks in the area but none will stand along our street because it's a no standing zone. I tried feeling bad for her but I just can't. Everyone else follows the street laws here and she should, too.

I generally try not to be too aggressive when dealing with conflicts since you never know who you're dealing with - some people can be so crazy. However, she was being really ignorant and brazen. It does make me a little worried since she has no fear of the law... and who knows what her and her husband may be capable of. I hope she never returns to this area again!

[Zman]

I would bundle a FREE ice cream product with a purchase of a coke or something similar that kids usally buy. Even if you break even on the sale you will most likely git rid of the vendor pretty fast when the kids quit buying from him.

[BNB]

Great job SBM, I'm glad it worked out. I have police officers in my family, and I can tell you that your typical road patrol is most certainly not out solving murders and robberies. They are not detectives. They are there to help you and you shouldn't feel bad calling them for this type of incident. They will always tell you to call them first as opposed to getting into an argument. This is exactly what their job is, and if you have an issue again, call them.

[sbm]

Zman, I thought about the free ice cream bundle, too, but unfortunately, it would make me lose too much money. I'm struggling these days.


Great job SBM, I'm glad it worked out. I have police officers in my family, and I can tell you that your typical road patrol is most certainly not out solving murders and robberies. They are not detectives. They are there to help you and you shouldn't feel bad calling them for this type of incident. They will always tell you to call them first as opposed to getting into an argument. This is exactly what their job is, and if you have an issue again, call them.

Thank you, BNB! I wish I had officers in my family, too...and I also wish this was the end of the conflict. I thought things have been resolved, but I was wrong. I'm so sad and frustrated.

She returned to my area. Now she is right across the street from my store, parked at a fire hydrant. She is also spreading nasty rumors about us, that we're horrible people, according to some customers. I'm afraid that the community will side with her and the cops would no longer help me with my case. In fact, some people are already siding with her since she acts like a damsel in distress.

I went to the police twice today and called numerous times. They all promised to send someone over to ticket her for blocking a hydrant but no one came by. Later, they told me that all the cops were already out on other cases and that they'd come tomorrow.

I hope persistence pays off because I don't feel like directly confronting her again. I've become a regular at the police station...I hope they don't get too annoyed.

[billbenson]

I wouldn't worry about peoples opinions ie her giving your customers bad opinions of you. Make sure your customers have a great experience in your restaurant. People also have short memories.

The police are still the best solution!

That doesn't mean you can't make her life so miserable that she stops. I'd video everything she does and post stuff on youtube if appropriate. At least video her parking in front of a fire hydrate day after day to show to the cops. If she's in the yellow zone in front of your work, I'd park a car behind and in front of her. And leave her there trapped so she can't leave. Sure your cars may get a ticket as well as her, but who cares! Leave her stuck there overnight. I'd do every petty legal thing I could to make her life miserable.



I've never been in a position to have to do some of the things I suggested, and would probably look for other solutions. Still there are plenty of ways to be creative.

[Steve B]

I don't think you understand the concept of selling the ice cream either cheap or free. The idea isn't for you to make money on every single transaction, the idea is for you to make money over the course of a week. One promotion where you might lose 50 or 60 dollars may help you earn a lot more money over the coming weeks and months. Most retailers utilize the concept of a loss leader even when they're not trying to drive out competition.

[nealrm]

Ok guys - a confrontation approach WILL NOT WORK. Harassment is an EXTREMELY poor way of getting anyone to do something. All this will do is strengthen their resolve to stay and end up with a tit for tat type of exchange. It's pretty clear that it is already not working and has already moved into a tit for tat exchange with her spreading rumors. Yes, if you harass her enough she may move, but it will take longer and the damage done to you will negate the benefits.

They have only 2 motives for selling at that location:
They are making money
To spite you
TAKE AWAY THOSE MOTIVES!!!!!!!!!!

There are several ways suggested above that will get her to move on her own:

Undercut her prices.
Bundle the purchase with a coke.
Buy one get one free.
Add a video game console, music or something else that will attract the kids.
You state that you can't undercut her prices. I doubt that. If her supplier will not sell directly to you, then another similar supplier will. It may not be the same quality as your normal product, but apparently some customer (the kids) are not that concerned about that. Take a long term view of this. Will a small loss today result in a long term gain. The school year will be over in a month and she will move to wherever the kids are then. So an option is to wait her out.

[huggytree]

you didnt understand my posts....it wasnt about YOU making $$ off ice cream.....i said sell it AT COST.....just long enough to get rid of them......its about getting rid of them and not you making profit

if your worried about them attacking you get a concealed carry permit...........they know who you are and you are taking money out of their childrens mouth(odds are this is what they think)


i still think if they made $$ there that there may be an opportunity for YOU to do the same thing.....might mean an extra $100 per school day in your pocket...there's a customer base right across the street.....now there's a ice cream void

[billbenson]

if your worried about them attacking you get a concealed carry permit

What, are you going to shoot someone for illegally selling ice cream? I think we would agree on the gun control debate, but that's lousy advice!

[HourlyNerd]

If this is really affecting your business in a material way, I'd consider getting a lawyer if it doesn't stop. For a few bucks you can get a letter sent to the ice cream truck owner. Shoot me a PM and I will connect you with a good one who can do this cheaply.

Rob

[nealrm]

What is a lawyer going to do, send him a letter for illegal parking??? That is the only thing this guy is doing illegal.

I think this thread has lost perspective. Other than the parking issue, this is two small business competing for the same customers. At this point it appears that the truck is meeting the needs of a specific set of customers better than the store. Yes, that sucks for the store. As with all small business, you need to adjust your business practices to meet the demands of the current market. That means adjust to meet the needs of that customer set or determine how to get along without them. Because even if you manage to run off this truck for the parking issue, tomorrow a store down the street will start selling the ice cream for less.

[billbenson]

What is a lawyer going to do, send him a letter for illegal parking??? That is the only thing this guy is doing illegal.

I think this thread has lost perspective. Other than the parking issue, this is two small business competing for the same customers. At this point it appears that the truck is meeting the needs of a specific set of customers better than the store. Yes, that sucks for the store. As with all small business, you need to adjust your business practices to meet the demands of the current market. That means adjust to meet the needs of that customer set or determine how to get along without them. Because even if you manage to run off this truck for the parking issue, tomorrow a store down the street will start selling the ice cream for less.

I'd agree with you Neal except for the obvious malicious intent of this. While parking illegally is just an infraction, it's still illegal. I'd still keep bugging the police. This isn't the same as a competitive restaurant 3 doors down.

[huggytree]

What, are you going to shoot someone for illegally selling ice cream? I think we would agree on the gun control debate, but that's lousy advice!

when did i say that?

he said he was 'worried' about the ice cream guy since he knew who he was

whats he worried about?.. a tickle fight? or this guy following him home?

if i was physically worried about a customer going after me id have my gun on me for a while........he may chop his family into pieces because of lost ice cream money

people kill over a pair of shoes here in Milwaukee......so assuming someone may attack you for taking away their livelyhood is not a stretch

i had a customer calling me a few weeks ago very angry.....my address is right on my business cars and invoices....they know right where to find me......there are crazy people everywhere....most of the small business guys i know in construction have their CCW licenses....ive personally helped a few through the process....