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KristineS
08-08-2008, 10:35 PM
What's the best tip or advice about writing you ever got? Did it help make you a better writer?

vangogh
08-08-2008, 11:39 PM
I'm having a hard time thinking of one specific tip someone gave me so instead I'll offer a few general tips of my own.

If you want to be a better writer:

1. Write
2. Write more
3. Write more than that

Like most anything the only way to become a better writer is to write. Don't worry if you aren't happy with what you're writing, just keep at it and you will get better.

Read great writers
Learn from the example of the best. As you read others who write well, you'll pick up on their rhythms. Find writers with different styles. Read literature and read non-fiction. Every so often stop and really look at a paragraph you like. Take a few minutes to study why you like that paragraph and how the author wrote it to make it so good.

Read The Elements of Style (http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Coyote-Canyon-Classics/dp/0979660742/) by William Strunk. It's less than $4 so you can afford it. It's about 100 pages so it won't take long to read. And it probably has more good advice for improving your writing than any other book written.

cbscreative
08-08-2008, 11:59 PM
I like what vangogh said, so it's hard to add to it. The only thing that comes to mind right now is don't worry at the draft stage. Get the ideas written down quickly. Jot down an outline and fine tune it later. I don't write this way every time, but I do find if I don't write the ideas down fast enough, I sometimes lose the train of thought.

If possible, get rid of distractions, especially the phone. That's one reason I despise automated callers. To be on a roll and have some satellite TV vendor calling me when I already have satellite is annoying to say the least. The loss of momentum from these distractions is sometimes unrecoverable. OK, personal pet peeves aside, allow yourself adequate time to think.

KristineS
08-09-2008, 09:33 AM
Read The Elements of Style (http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Coyote-Canyon-Classics/dp/0979660742/) by William Strunk. It's less than $4 so you can afford it. It's about 100 pages so it won't take long to read. And it probably has more good advice for improving your writing than any other book written.

I'd forgotten about Elements of Style. I got a copy when I started writing for my hometown newspaper in high school. I think I still have it somewhere. I swore by that little book. It helped me out a lot.

vangogh
08-09-2008, 12:36 PM
It's a great book. Years ago I was studying the craft of fiction writing and collected so many books on the art and craft of writing. The Elements of Style was one and it's amazing how much good advice to improve any kind of writing is contained there.

I did think of another tip for writing, which is to know and understand your audience as much as possible. Especially true for copywriting since you generally want people to take some kind of action based on your words. Different people respond to different things so knowing them helps you focus your writing in ways that will lead your market into taking action.

KristineS
08-09-2008, 01:50 PM
One of the best tips I ever got was not to analyze things too much when you first start writing. Just put stuff down on paper and then go back and revise. Some of what you write will be brilliant and some of it will be awful, but at least you'll have something on paper.

I agree with you about knowing your audience, vangogh. Targeted copywriting is generally much more successful than scattershot writing.

degadar
08-09-2008, 02:40 PM
One thing I was told which often works for people who are stuck is "Write it like you would say it". Many people feel some need to write in some magical special way that's different to how you'd say it out loud.

Another thing that has always helped me is to use all my senses. I knew a motoring journalist who only ever wrote about a car if he was sitting inside it. Writing about how something makes you feel is so much easier if you're feeling it at the time. Correspondence from a war journalist being pounded by mortars can be just as special.

Any diving journalists in the house? I have a nice line in underwater pens.

vangogh
08-09-2008, 02:59 PM
Good point about writing how you would say it. I think my writing voice isn't too far off from my speaking voice. Some things have to change naturally, but I try to write it the way I would say it.

Interesting about sitting in the car to write about the car. Similar to method acting. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Jack Kerouac, but he set out some principles for what he called spontaneous prose (http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/kerouac-spontaneous.html). Part of the idea is to imagine yourself in the scene your going to write before you write. If you're going to write about a group of people in a room immerse yourself in that room in your mind. See all the details and talk to the people there before you write. When you really feel like you're in that room with those people then start writing.

Aaron Hats
08-09-2008, 03:06 PM
Believe in what you write.

degadar
08-09-2008, 03:20 PM
All this last week I've been interviewing candidates for a blogger/writer position I'm wanting to fill.

I've given them all the same task, to write three short blogs. The first two are from topics provided, the third open to the writer.

It's been really fascinating watching the different ways the task has been attacked. Some people have just written furiously and edited like mad, and some people have scribbled notes, researched and then written precisely.

So far I can't say that either style produces better copy than the other.

VG. thanks for that Kerouac link. I knew the name but never read him. That's really interesting stuff.

vangogh
08-09-2008, 05:59 PM
So many different styles can really work. Depends a lot on the person doing the writing and what experience they have.

That's a good way to test new bloggers. I bet you see some interesting posts.

I'm a big fan of Kerouac. His writing isn't really for everyone, but I certainly enjoy him. He always wrote from a stream of consciousness. His most famous work On the Road was typed complete in about 2 weeks after experiencing the events in the novel. He typed on some kind of rolled up paper. Imagine writing on a roll of toilet paper one sheet at a time.

KarenB
08-10-2008, 09:03 AM
Believe in what you write.

I agree 110%.

Whenever I've written a press release, for example, for a product, service or company that I'm ho-hum about...the first draft is awful until I pump myself up to get really excited about it. THEN it starts to become believable to the target reader.

As for personal writing, I always find that I do best when I write about something that I know well and have had firsthand experience with. My fingers just seem to fly off the keyboard and the words come out right.

Whenever I've struggled with writing, it has most often been because I wasn't passionate enough about the topic.

Karen

KristineS
08-10-2008, 09:37 AM
Caring about your topic can definitely add life to your writing. I know it does for mine. I always have to do more drafts of stuff I write for the companies that I don't find interesting.

Dan Furman
08-10-2008, 01:29 PM
Word use.

I'm not a big proponent of using proper English all the time (heck, I'm a writer and I couldn't begin to tell you what a preposition is), but I am a bit of a stickler on word use. In short, there are a few words that people miss ALL THE TIME, and it detracts from your overall message. Using "your" when you mean "you're" ("you are") really sticks out like a sore thumb.

For example, learn the difference between "lose" and "loose" (if your shoelace is loose, you will lose your shoe); to, too, and two ("The two of us are going to the store. Would you like to come, too?") and similar.

I could go on a long time on these (I have a chapter in an upcoming book devoted to this), so for the sake of brevity, I'll just mention that there are plenty of online lists for these - just search for "commonly misused words and phrases".

KristineS
08-10-2008, 01:46 PM
Dan, you've hit on one of my pet peeves. I can't tell you how many times I've visited a web site and seen the sort of mistakes you've mentioned. It drives me nuts.

vangogh
08-10-2008, 02:04 PM
Same for me Dan. I know sometimes I'll mean one and my fingers will type another, but I always do my best to catch them. Those kind of mistakes are in part a result of spell check since we all too often rely on it more than we should.

There, their, they're is another to add to the list.

cbscreative
08-10-2008, 02:18 PM
It's good to see you here, Dan. In the absense of you're intro thread, let me just say welcome to the group. Just kidding about the misuse of correct spelling. :D

Dan Furman
08-10-2008, 10:35 PM
It's good to see you here, Dan. In the absense of you're intro thread, let me just say welcome to the group. Just kidding about the misuse of correct spelling. :D


Yea, I'll do an intro thread in a day or so - couldn't think of much to say today :)

cbscreative
08-10-2008, 10:49 PM
I'm just glad you're here with us. More and more members are finding us here and that's what matters because we're looking to recapture as much as we can of what was lost with the old SBF.

Spider
08-13-2008, 08:32 AM
...Using "your" when you mean "you're" ("you are") really sticks out like a sore thumb.
For example, learn the difference between "lose" and "loose" (if your shoelace is loose, you will lose your shoe); to, too, and two ("The two of us are going to the store. Would you like to come, too?") and similar.... Ooh! Don't those errors drive you up the wall?! But the ones that really get to me are misuse of words, however spelled. Words like 'infamous' to mean 'very famous,' and phrases like "I mean that literally" when the literal meaning is impossible, and the colorful, "time is of the essence," in matters where time may be important but cannot be 'of the essence.'

And I object to how some words have been commandeered to mean something else - for example, 'gay' means to be happy and jolly, but you can hardly use it in that way anymore without invoking a different meaning.

So, my tip would be to be sure you know the meaning of the words you use, otherwise you could be conveying an erroneous message to your readers.

vangogh
08-13-2008, 02:00 PM
It's funny you mention 'infamous.' I was watching ESPN recently when an athlete used that word to mean very famous and my first thought was how he used it wrong.

The one thing with the your, you're mistakes is I know sometimes they're just typos. I know how to use each, but my fingers sometimes get ahead of me. Those mostly bug me when it's clear the writer doesn't know the difference. I can forgive the typo. The obvious misuse gets to me more.

cbscreative
08-13-2008, 02:40 PM
It's one thing to see an occasional typo on forums, or even consistent misuse for people who are not native to the English language. It's completely another when you see it on web sites.

vangogh
08-13-2008, 04:07 PM
True. If it's a page that you would expect to be proofed then the typo should be caught. I read a lot of blogs though, and don't expect every post to have been proofed with a fine tooth comb. I also know how hard some typos can be to spot so I will be forgiving if there aren't too many. If every other word is a typo then that's bad. If I'm reading through a site that is mostly using words correctly and I spot an occasional typo I'll be more forgiving.

Spider
08-14-2008, 09:21 AM
Actually, all this talk of typos and misuse, and grammar, too, is not simply a matter of being accurate - although that may be a worthy effort. The point is that these errors draw a reader's attention to the words and away from the message.

If it's a sales pitch, it will sell less. If it is an inspirational or motivational message it will inspire and motivate less. If it is an explanation, it will explain less well. Because the reader's attention is diverted.

Accuracy in writing has monetary consequences.

KristineS
08-14-2008, 09:44 AM
You're right Frederick, accuracy in writing does have monetary consequences. I think it also has reputation consequences too. I know I'm less likely to feel confidence in sites that have text which doesn't pay attention to the rules of grammar and spelling. If a company can't pay attention to a simple thing like that, how can I be sure they'll pay attention to my business?

cbscreative
08-14-2008, 10:52 AM
If a company can't pay attention to a simple thing like that, how can I be sure they'll pay attention to my business?
That right there is exactly why professionalism matters. Apperarances mean a lot because I'm sure I'm not the only one who figures if they are cutting corners in one area, they probably are in others. If we're talking web copy, sloppy copy may also indicate sloppy security. Sloppy security means I wouldn't want them handling even a small credit card transaction.