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Aaron Hats
01-06-2009, 09:40 PM
Does anybody have any info or advice on buying text links? I've been doing some reading and found some saying the SE's will punish a site for paid links, others disagree.

Thanks,

Aaron

billbenson
01-06-2009, 11:16 PM
See what others have to say, but IMO a link in general only has value if it is part of a content page. Footer links, naked text links, forum links, etc., won't do much for you in most cases.

One note: A site that is selling links has a good chance to be turned into G. They do physically review those sites. If you have a link on a site that G doesn't like, that's not a good thing. Make sure anyplace you have a link is not on a site that G may not like.

seolman
01-06-2009, 11:52 PM
Bill is right Aaron. Links that pass PageRank (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66356) are a no-no. Here is a link from Google (http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66356) that explains it in a lot more detail.

orion_joel
01-07-2009, 12:02 AM
I think it would depend on the context, if there is a site purely selling links that are of no relevance or point on the site they are sold on then, what is the point in paying for them anyway.

However if using your site as an example you were to pay to place a text link on a hat blog, or vice versa, then this would more then likely be a totally different case.

vangogh
01-07-2009, 02:40 AM
Aaron because links carry so much weight in Google's algorithm a link economy and market developed. For a time many saw link buying as the golden path to rank. The market developed around PR. The higher your PR the more you could sell a link for. Google though wants to see a link as a vote or a recommendation and they see link buying as an attempt to manipulate the system.

From Google's point of view they want to display the best and most relevant sites in their search results. They see link buying as a way to rank web pages that aren't the best or most relevant. A few times over the last year+ they manually edited the PR of some high profile sites that were known to be selling links. The search results and traffic didn't change, but those sites showed 0 PR or a general decrease in PR. The idea being that if the visible PR was removed those sites wouldn't be able to sell links.

I believe the official stance from Google is that any site found to be selling links will lose the ability to pass PR or link juice (essentially the value of the link for seo). They say nothing about the sites buying the links though. It's aimed at making it less desirable to sell links and if no one is selling them no one can buy them.

On the flip side many people argue that Google is going to far. Google has always stated that you should ask yourself would you do something if search engines didn't exist when it comes to working on your site. In the case of buying links that's an absolute yes. People bought links before search engines since links directly send traffic. If the Wikipedia contacted me and said for $X each month they would point every link on their web design page to my site I would happily pay. Even if Google delisted my site I'd still end up with more traffic because of the popularity of Wikipedia. On the other hand of Joe's website of links emailed me pointing me to their link sales page I'd decline since it likely wouldn't send traffic and the sale is easily discovered.

Another thing with the way Google handled link buying is they basically drove the market underground. If you were to pick up a phone and call me and ask to buy a link on my site how would anyone, including Google know. They wouldn't.

So should you do it? Depends. If you think the site and page where your link would be would drive a lot of traffic why not. If CNN wants to sell you a link on their home page you wouldn't need search traffic so what would it matter if Google penalized you (By the way notice I haven't mentioned any other search engine?)

My guess is you shouldn't get too heavily involved with link buying unless you know some of the nuances of how Google might view a given link. They did a good job killing the link buying market, but a new underground market surely filled the whole left behind. People are still buying links just not as visibly or easily as before.

Again the official stance (unless I missed a change) is that the site selling the link gets punished by losing the ability to pass anything valuable through the link. The site buying the link doesn't get punished, but if the seller isn't passing anything valuable the buyer is wasting the money they spent. In the end you're probably better off building links through other means. Network with bloggers who have sites related to yours, create content people want to link to, submit to some directories, become more active in social media sites, etc.

Aaron Hats
01-07-2009, 10:27 AM
Thank you all for your input. With all the work to our web site I think the one area that lacks is inbound links. The problem is that we're such a niche it's hard to find other relevant sites or blogs that aren't actual competitors.

vangogh
01-07-2009, 10:50 AM
It's ok to build those relationships with competitors. Maybe not the hat store down the block, but why not the one on the other side of the country. How about stores that sell boots or belts or jackets. All are related to your business.

Also with your blog write around the topic of hats. When I think Indiana Jones one of the first things I think about is his hat. You can write anything you want about those movies and find a way to get hats in there. How about some posts on why American men used to all wear hats in the 40s, but not as much now. How about some posts on the most popular hats through time. What hat was most popular in each decade of the country.

Post that are less about you introducing a product are much easier to get links to.

Harold Mansfield
01-07-2009, 12:33 PM
Aaron, you can also pick some inbound links from directories, and just for S & G's submit your site to DMOZ. (http://www.dmoz.org/)

Article directories and Press release sites also will give you a few decent backlinks.

I personally don't believe in buying links, nor am I concerned with PR anymore. What you really need is traffic and the best way to do that for free is article marketing, comments on blogs and websites, link exchanges on like sites, and good content.

Don't forget to use Google keyword, and key phrase tool (https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal) to see what are the most prevalent searched for phrases about your product, and use them in your content and articles.

vangogh
01-07-2009, 12:53 PM
What you really need is traffic

Absolutely. I think sometimes people put too much thought into how something is going to affect seo when that question isn't always relevant. Don't get me wrong. I believe seo is a worthwhile investment with great potential for any business, but if CNN wants to link to me I could care less how that link is going to affect my site in search results. It probably will help, but the amount of direct traffic you'd get through the link would be worth it even if your rankings dropped.

Aaron Hats
01-07-2009, 01:58 PM
I personally don't believe in buying links, nor am I concerned with PR anymore. What you really need is traffic and the best way to do that for free is article marketing, comments on blogs and websites, link exchanges on like sites, and good content.


So in other words...just keep doing what I'm doing. ;) I'll just step it up a notch or two.

Aaron

Harold Mansfield
01-07-2009, 03:21 PM
So in other words...just keep doing what I'm doing. ;) I'll just step it up a notch or two.

Aaron

What I'm saying is, if you are going to pay for something, your money is better spent if it will direct potential customers to your site.

IOW, I would certainly pay for a link if it were advertising ( a banner or text link ad on a related site) , but not just for SEO or PR juice, and I certainly would not spend money on a site that is not related, just because it has a high PR.

That's just me. I rarely get bent out of shape about PR anymore.

Give me a PR 2 site that makes money everyday, over a high PR site that goes days, or weeks without making a sale, any day.

billbenson
01-07-2009, 05:20 PM
On the PR issue (as well as the rest) I completely agree with eborg. I can't remember the last time I checked PR.

If you want to see if G likes a site, do a G search site:domain.com. That will bring up the cached pages. Supplemental pages are ok, but not as good as the main pages in the list.

I would also look at search terms that bring you to those pages and look at the pages for spam. White text, white background, overuse of keywords etc. Anything that might set a flag up to G or to get someone to complain about the site. Even stuff like putting a laundry list of meta keywords or just plain lousy SEO and I would look elsewhere.

That's also a good reason to use good on site SEO. You will build trust from other webmasters. Even if it doesn't help your rankings.

One good link is worth a thousand lousy ones.

Aaron Hats
01-07-2009, 05:40 PM
I'm not all that concerned about PR though I do look at it as a feel for the general health of the site. When I fired our webmaster 3-4 months ago only about six pages of my site had PR, most pages simply showed a grey PR bar. Today, that's a completely different story. According to Google's Webmaster Tools I currently have 1570 external links and when I do the "site:www..." search it returns 1080 links. I've also done several searches and found we usually show up on page one or two for most of my searches. Since I've taken over webmaster duties and done so much work I just want to make sure I'm not forgetting something important as I certainly don't want to become lax about the site. Maybe it's time I put my site in the Reviews section.

Aaron

billbenson
01-07-2009, 06:21 PM
I just did a couple of searches and you place great. I don't know what your best keywords are but I'd say you are doing well online. The other thing you didn't mention are your stats unless its in another thread. That's the place to go to see how you are doing as well.

seolman
01-07-2009, 07:09 PM
I'm not all that concerned about PR though I do look at it as a feel for the general health of the site. When I fired our webmaster 3-4 months ago only about six pages of my site had PR, most pages simply showed a grey PR bar. Today, that's a completely different story. According to Google's Webmaster Tools I currently have 1570 external links and when I do the "site:www..." search it returns 1080 links. I've also done several searches and found we usually show up on page one or two for most of my searches. Since I've taken over webmaster duties and done so much work I just want to make sure I'm not forgetting something important as I certainly don't want to become lax about the site. Maybe it's time I put my site in the Reviews section.

Aaron

Your site looks great by the way.

A great way to build links is to work with your suppliers. They have a vested interest in your doing well. People you buy wholesale from, shippers, box companies, advertising companies you work with all persons you spend money on usually have web sites and it is in their interest for you to do well. It doesn't hurt them to provide you business - that is: traffic. The more traffic they help you gain the more you sell and the more services you wil buy from them.

Already mentioned: links from Directories. I recommend you focus on Top Directories. The obvious ones we know (Yahoo etc) but there are a few others that can actually provide some traffic. To be honest I usually don't list sites in more than 20 directories maximum and they have to be well organized Directories with strict guidelines. I rarely pay for a directory listing (with the exception of Yahoo on occasion). By the time a site is picked up by the big engines organic traffic takes care of most of my needs but for linking Directories can be helpful in competitive SEO.

Here are a few pages I use to get started looking around for ideas on Directory listings. I'm sure you have sources but just in case this helps any.

The Search Engine List (http://www.thesearchenginelist.com/directory.html)
Search Engine Colossus (http://www.searchenginecolossus.com/)
Google List (http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Searching_the_Web/Search_Engines_and_Directories/Directories/?b=20)