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View Full Version : What is an Ideal Time Period??



angelajason06
12-02-2012, 01:02 PM
What is an Ideal Time Period get any website in 1st of Google.com (with Medium competition keywords).

billbenson
12-02-2012, 01:08 PM
I would say more than one year. I think it took me several years but I don't really remember. Meanwhile I used Adwords to generate revenue. Starting out today you are in a different Google world and my guess it takes longer today.

Pack-Secure
12-02-2012, 01:46 PM
Tough question. Really depends on how many others are competing with you. As Bill said, more than a years does not seem unreasonable.

KristineS
12-03-2012, 12:00 PM
I think, really, that's the wrong sort of question. A lot depends on the keywords. More obscure keywords will rise to the top of the listings faster, but that won't do you any good because those keywords are rarely searched. Ranking also depends on more than just keywords. Plus, in my opinion, being at the top of the rankings doesn't mean anything if you don't have a web site that can convert visitors into buyers. First, I would make sure your site works as well as possible from an e-commerce standpoint, and then I'd worry about getting yourself ranked.

vangogh
12-03-2012, 04:28 PM
I agree with Kristine. It's not really the right question to ask. For example the answer is entirely different if you have $0 to spend and $1,000,000 to spend. It could also depend on how long the site's been online and what it's about in comparison to what the keywords are about. It can depend on who's in the network of people you know who can help you and what kind of influence do they have online.

I'm guessing the question comes from wanting to rank for certain medium competitive phrases. Instead of starting by targeting them and wondering how long it will take, try something like this.

Say affordable widgets is the phrase you'd like to rank for, but at the moment your site doesn't have enough trust and authority in the eyes of search engines for the phrase. Instead target phrases like

affordable red widgets in Atlanta
affordable widgets in assorted colors
inexpensive blue widgets for your car
low cost and durable auto widgets

The idea is those longer phrases will have less competition and be easier to rank for. As search engines start seeing your site is about all these specific widget phrases it sends the signal your site is about widgets in general. Words like affordable, inexpensive, and low cost send an additional signal about your site. Part of the beauty of this approach is that working to get a page of your site to rank for "affordable red widgets in Atlanta" is that it also helps the page rank for widgets, affordable widgets, red widgets, widgets in atlanta.

When you first start a site one of the biggest problems is search engines don't know if they can trust your site as an authority on your subject. As you build more content about these longer and less competitive phrases you start to build that trust and authority not only with search engines, but with real people across the web.

The real answer to your question is it takes longer to rank for a keyword with medium competition than one with low competition, however until you can rank for the low competition keyword you aren't going to rank for the medium one. So target the lower competition keywords in a way they also contribute to ranking for the medium competitive phrase.

krymson
12-04-2012, 06:52 PM
This is an interesting reand for you... Sandbox effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_effect)

Your rankings depend on numerous factors. Website coding, content, keywords, alt tags, heading tags, title tags, meta tags, social media, the list goes on an on.

Website coding: Is your website coded for best optimization? <article><aside><section><header><nav>... relevant semantic coding for search engine spiders to read.

Content: "Content is King", is the information on your site relevant, easy to understand, worth reading, focuses on your main keywords (keyword density)

Keywords: What keywords and describe your site so when people are searching for info that your site provides you may be found.

Alt Tags: Search Engines cant read or see what an image is about, describe it, give it something so it knows ok this is relevant to the article.

Heading tags: A lot of people believe that <h1><h2><h3> are depreciated in SEO. I personally don't believe so, Use intelligent heading to describe your articles.

Title Tags: These are very important for ranking, you want to try to get your main keyword at the very beginning of your title (Keyword - Website Title)

Meta Tags: Such as keywords so you can tell the search engine hey I want to be found on these keywords, look at my content, there's relevant information here about these words. Description is what shows under the title of the Search Engine Result Page (SERP).

Social Media: Google and Bing are starting to focus on what I describe as "digital word of mouth" If you have a Google account as well as some of your friend you might see something under a result when you search for something that says "blah blah blah +1'd this" that right there throws out the rules of SEO for that website it just hopped into first pretty much. Same with Bing using Facebook. So if you know the person that +1'd that page then you're more likely to read it and find it relevant for your needs.

billbenson
12-04-2012, 11:07 PM
This is an interesting reand for you... Sandbox effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_effect)

Your rankings depend on numerous factors. Website coding, content, keywords, alt tags, heading tags, title tags, meta tags, social media, the list goes on an on.

Website coding: Is your website coded for best optimization? <article><aside><section><header><nav>... relevant semantic coding for search engine spiders to read.

Content: "Content is King", is the information on your site relevant, easy to understand, worth reading, focuses on your main keywords (keyword density)

Keywords: What keywords and describe your site so when people are searching for info that your site provides you may be found.

Alt Tags: Search Engines cant read or see what an image is about, describe it, give it something so it knows ok this is relevant to the article.

Heading tags: A lot of people believe that <h1><h2><h3> are depreciated in SEO. I personally don't believe so, Use intelligent heading to describe your articles.

Title Tags: These are very important for ranking, you want to try to get your main keyword at the very beginning of your title (Keyword - Website Title)

Meta Tags: Such as keywords so you can tell the search engine hey I want to be found on these keywords, look at my content, there's relevant information here about these words. Description is what shows under the title of the Search Engine Result Page (SERP).

Social Media: Google and Bing are starting to focus on what I describe as "digital word of mouth" If you have a Google account as well as some of your friend you might see something under a result when you search for something that says "blah blah blah +1'd this" that right there throws out the rules of SEO for that website it just hopped into first pretty much. Same with Bing using Facebook. So if you know the person that +1'd that page then you're more likely to read it and find it relevant for your needs.

A word of caution on this. All of what krymson mentioned are or have been in the past important for search engine ranking. However if any of the items mentioned are determined to be spam by a search engine they may ban you from their search results. Be very careful not to do anything that may be interpreted as SEO spam. If you do some searches you will find a lot of information on this subject.

krymson
12-05-2012, 02:51 AM
A word of caution on this. All of what krymson mentioned are or have been in the past important for search engine ranking. However if any of the items mentioned are determined to be spam by a search engine they may ban you from their search results. Be very careful not to do anything that may be interpreted as SEO spam. If you do some searches you will find a lot of information on this subject.

You have this correct. You can go overboard with some of this stuff, What alot of people don't know is that there is a fine line with every SEO strategy. Now I'm not just going to divulge the ways I work my SEO strategies because they have taken me years to learn. But if used correctly you can rank really well and none of it is black hat SEO.

Link farms = black hat SEO
for links to your website you want links from relevant websites. For instance I am an active member of a web design forum and this forum (getting more active on this forum) my business is web design for small businesses. So the link in my signature in both forums is totally relevant to my site which builds credibility. Not only am I sharing my expertise so if you need any of the services I have to offer, I have built rapport with you and other mombers which in turn brings me more traffic because you have that intrest in my work and you want to see what I'm capable of. You may not need it but someone will ask and you'll be like oh yeah that guy does really good work let me refer you to him. ( Sorry getting off topic) But my point is using what I posted above, mixed with quality link backs to your website will surly increase your rankings. I have taken brand new sites with newly registered domain names and had them ranking on the front page within 2 weeks, and I give my clients a homework list that they must complete. Be active in an industry relevant forum, share your experience make yourself someone people can trust to come to your site. Market your site. Do you own an ecom store and use vendors? Ask to see if they will put a link back to your site from theres. SEO is a lot of work but if you know what you're doing you can start getting ranked within a few weeks.

vangogh
12-05-2012, 11:34 AM
I don't think any of the items mentioned above (aside from link farms) would be considered spam. It depends on what you do with them of course. If you stuff the alt attribute of an image with an endless stream of keywords that have nothing to do with the image, then sure it's spam, but using the alt attribute in a way that briefly describes the image and also includes a keyword or phrase isn't going to get you in trouble.

I'd also add that Google and other search engines are unlikely to ban you because you add an extra keyword or two to an alt attribute, heading, or page title. You have to really push things to get banned. Most of the time if a search engine bans your site from showing up in results, you probably knew it was a strong possibility that they might. More likely is the pages in question won't rank well, but that's different than being banned.

billbenson
12-05-2012, 12:36 PM
I don't think any of the items mentioned above (aside from link farms) would be considered spam. It depends on what you do with them of course. If you stuff the alt attribute of an image with an endless stream of keywords that have nothing to do with the image, then sure it's spam, but using the alt attribute in a way that briefly describes the image and also includes a keyword or phrase isn't going to get you in trouble.

I'd also add that Google and other search engines are unlikely to ban you because you add an extra keyword or two to an alt attribute, heading, or page title. You have to really push things to get banned. Most of the time if a search engine bans your site from showing up in results, you probably knew it was a strong possibility that they might. More likely is the pages in question won't rank well, but that's different than being banned.

But take the extreme. What happens if the key word is widget and is put in all the tags suggested as well as over and over again in the page content. I'm just suggesting that you need to know the tags and other stuff listed, but you also need to know how to use them.

vangogh
12-06-2012, 12:51 AM
That's what I meant by it depends on what you do with them. Pushing the envelope on optimization could perhaps send a signal to search engines you'd rather not send. But that's the extreme. Most people aren't going to get there and those that do know they're pushing the envelope. At the same time it's also a reason I always suggest not to spend too much time worrying about every little bit of code where you can place keywords. The benefits are less than you probably think, while the risk is probably greater.


I'm just suggesting that you need to know the tags and other stuff listed, but you also need to know how to use them.

I agree. I always think learning more is a good thing.

krymson
12-06-2012, 11:45 AM
I was looking at the extreme side. You don't want to over stuff you pages with keywords, mainly because you have to think about keyword density. Now as far as alt tags like you said you dont wanna just shove keywords in there. Believe it or not there are still people that use dial-up internet and disable images to increase load time. They dont what see where an image is supposed to be (im going to use "blah" as my keyword) "blah, blah website, blahing, blah blah blah" in stead of "Derp doing blah for the blah blah blah company". That's what vangogh is getting at. Google will penalize you but not ban you.

But in order to run an effective SEO campaign yes you have to know how to use all of your tags to produce the best chance to rank organically.

billbenson
12-07-2012, 12:22 AM
I was looking at the extreme side. You don't want to over stuff you pages with keywords, mainly because you have to think about keyword density. Now as far as alt tags like you said you dont wanna just shove keywords in there. Believe it or not there are still people that use dial-up internet and disable images to increase load time. They dont what see where an image is supposed to be (im going to use "blah" as my keyword) "blah, blah website, blahing, blah blah blah" in stead of "Derp doing blah for the blah blah blah company". That's what vangogh is getting at. Google will penalize you but not ban you.

But in order to run an effective SEO campaign yes you have to know how to use all of your tags to produce the best chance to rank organically.

I know that and I'm sure Vangogh knows it as well. It was a good post. Just clarifying things for the OP or other people that may be reading.

vangogh
12-07-2012, 12:59 AM
Yeah, you don't want to go extreme with this stuff. There are people who do and they've been testing and learning every little nuance of seo. They can probably push the envelope more than most of us, but even they go into it with the knowledge that at times they'll push too far and suffer the consequences. If you have a domain you don't mind burning go ahead and push. I don't think that describes most of us here. We have businesses we want to grow and last. For us we should stay much further back from the edge.


mainly because you have to think about keyword density

I wouldn't worry or think about keyword density. It's a think of the past. Just write what you have to write and don't worry about falling into some magical range of how many times you should use keywords on a page.

Harold Mansfield
12-07-2012, 06:34 PM
I'm perfectly happy at #2, #3, and #4 for the keywords and search phrases that people always find me for because #1 and #2 either aren't available, have horrible websites, or don't ever answer the phone. So by the time they get to me, they are pretty happy to hear a real person answer the phone during normal business hours. I like having those guys just above me.

This notion that #1 in Google means business success is rediculous. Plenty of crappy businesses are at the top of the SERPS. It doesn't mean that they are of any quality, it just means that they spent a lot of time on SEO. Don't get me wrong, I'll take it. But that is only one aspect of your business marketing.

vangogh
12-07-2012, 07:03 PM
#1 in Google doesn't equal business success. What it means is more traffic from Google and more opportunity for business success. It works for you being at #2, #3, or #4 now because #1 can't close the sale. What happens when they can? Or what would happen if you could be #1 and get all that extra traffic?

Harold Mansfield
12-07-2012, 07:09 PM
#1 in Google doesn't equal business success. What it means is more traffic from Google and more opportunity for business success. It works for you being at #2, #3, or #4 now because #1 can't close the sale. What happens when they can? Or what would happen if you could be #1 and get all that extra traffic?

I am #1 for a few phrases. Or at least right after WordPress.org. Not the new site, the old ones that I keep live. I'll take that. But in 3 years, the sites that keep beating me for the first 2 spots haven't changed. They spend more time on SEO than I do, but it seems like no one is ever home.

I can't complain too much because I don't spent a whole lot of time, not as much as I should, trying to rank higher. I got frustrated a while back and started concentrating on referrals and partnerships. The phone rings from the web, but it's still the same frequency. When partnerships are calling, so are web contacts. When they aren't...neither is anyone else.

krymson
12-08-2012, 12:38 AM
If i rank #1 i rank #1 it just means im doing something right. But you guys are right and I tell my clients... You dont want to be #1... #1 gets you traffic but not conversions. 9 times out of 10 they look at your site then they look at the following 3-4 others... just because you're #1 doesn't make you the #1 chance to make a sale...

vangogh
12-08-2012, 01:45 AM
What it comes down to is a lot of different things go into making a sale. You have to get people to your site and once there you have to convince them buy or come back and buy later. You're probably better off having the better site and being #2 or #3, but even with the better site I'd prefer to be #1. And you never know, maybe those #1 sites, as bad as they may seem, get so much more traffic from that top spot they're making more sales than the better site sitting at #2.

Ideally you'd be #1 in the results and also have the best site. :)

billbenson
12-08-2012, 02:40 PM
If i rank #1 i rank #1 it just means im doing something right. But you guys are right and I tell my clients... You dont want to be #1... #1 gets you traffic but not conversions. 9 times out of 10 they look at your site then they look at the following 3-4 others... just because you're #1 doesn't make you the #1 chance to make a sale...

That has not been my experience at all. Usually they go to my site and find what they want, have a question, call me, I close the deal. If either I or my site closes the deal they don't go and surf for better pricing except in rare occasions.

vangogh
12-10-2012, 10:26 PM
There are stats that show that the #1 result (when you consider lots of #1 results for lots of different queries) don't have as high a conversion rate as a result lower than #1. That's not because being #1 is bad though. It's because people often click the first result without looking at it. Sometimes the #1 result isn't what they were looking for and when that happens that click back to the search results quickly. However if your page is a good fit for their query then there's no reason to think you won't do well. Your conversion rate will depend on how well your site is designed and built and how well the copy is written, etc.

dianecoleen
12-26-2012, 06:46 PM
Some people that are into SEO may say it will take 3-4 months for you to appear in search results. But do you wonder how these guys do it? I assume that some may get your site into trouble like involving it to a spam site for them to comply with their targeted date.

It's really hard to say when will you going to be on top. There are so many consideration you need to take like the competitiveness of your chosen keywords, the type of the business itself, and the targeted customers. It will take you so many experimentation before you can gain a positive result. Unless you're going to hire a marketing expert that will do the technical job for your site. Being on top doesn't always mean a big return of income, I think it all depends on the website, on how you appeal your visitors so they can be converted into customers.

Being in the search result is continues, it takes forever. Although if you are aiming to rank your new website, then do give your site 6-12 months time period. Just make sure to do all the white hat way to achieve your goal.

vangogh
12-26-2012, 11:42 PM
Some people that are into SEO may say it will take 3-4 months for you to appear in search results. But do you wonder how these guys do it?

I think that's why you have to get to know people a little before hiring them and also why it makes sense to do some research prior to hiring anyone. You don't have to become an seo expert to hire one, but spending a few nights searching the basics or picking up a book on the subject should help you understand what questions to ask and how to decide who to hire.

Good seo will probably take some time to be effective. How much time depends on the current state of your site and marketing.