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KristineS
10-04-2012, 12:24 PM
I looked through the old posts in this category and I didn't see this question asked, which made me curious. I'm wondering, if you write in any fashion, what's the best piece of advice about writing that you've received. I think, for me, the best advice was to always keep in mind what you're writing and why. I went through a period as a young writer when I was kind of enraptured with words and I tended to write long and rather flowery no matter what the subject or format. A very wise person I knew told me that effective writing and good writing is writing that fits the format and the audience and I've always remembered that.

So what's the best advice about writing that was given to you?

Freelancier
10-04-2012, 02:09 PM
Long ago I had an awesome writer work with me to turn me into a writer. What I learned from her was that good writing is hard and requires up-front planning to be successful. Just trying to write off the top of your head won't work out as well as first creating an outline of what you want to write. Write how you want people to hear it if it was read aloud, it'll help with cadence and pacing and your word choice. Keep shortening your sentences until you can't shorten them any more; fewer words usually sound better than too many.

And never utilize utilize. :)

vangogh
10-05-2012, 01:59 AM
Good question. I'm surprised no one created this kind of thread before.

I can recall a single piece of advice. Most of what I've learned about copywriting has come out of books and much of the advice is blending together at the moment. The advice both of you gave also rings true for me. Know your audience and omit needless words. I think I'd add be direct. Instead of dancing around what you want to say, just say it. If you want someone to take an action after reading your copy, tell them what that action is. Don't assume they'll know what you want them to do. Tell them what to do.

MostHeather
10-05-2012, 02:46 PM
It depends on the type of writing you're doing and the audience that you're targeting. The best advice I ever read for blogging would be the information provided in the Flesch Reading Test. It was a true wake up call for sure!

vangogh
10-05-2012, 03:18 PM
What kind of information does the test provide. I can't say I've heard of it before.

MostHeather
10-05-2012, 06:42 PM
Thanks for your question, vangogh.

It isn't really a 'test' per say, but rather a 'grading' system that gauges the comprehension level of your writing.

After using this, I found out that even though I thought I was a 'good' writer, my blog writing was considered 'difficult' to read. My sentences were too long. I used too many syllables. Now I'm retraining myself to be clearer and use shorter sentences. To not use the words "and" and "but."

If you have Microsoft Office, check out this link (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/test-your-document-s-readability-HP010148506.aspx) for more info. I hope that you found this helpful and hope you don't have a wake up call like I did! ;)

Dan Furman
10-08-2012, 10:30 PM
The best advice I ever received I gave myself ;)

It was not to read too much into rules. Sometimes short copy is better, and sometimes longer is better. Sometimes corporate/dry works, sometimes witty is better. Short sentences can be great at times, but sometimes longer ones can really draw you in and inject some badly-needed humanity into the writing. And fragments can work too (don't pay too much attention to MSWord).

vangogh
10-09-2012, 02:00 PM
It isn't really a 'test' per say, but rather a 'grading' system that gauges the comprehension level of your writing.

I think I know something about it. I wrote a post about something similar a few years back. You'd count words per paragraph and syllables per word and do a little math to determine the reading level of your writing. I know the general idea is to write to a reading level that includes more people, though I think it depends on who your audience is. Naturally if you're writing for an audience of Ph.Ds you can write with a higher reading level than if you're writing for an audience of elementary school students. For general readership I think the advice is to write for something like a 10th or 11th grade level, but it really depends who your audience is.


It was not to read too much into rules.

I consider them guidelines more than rules. I've read enough writing to know there are no absolute rules.

MostHeather
10-10-2012, 07:45 AM
You got it, VanGogh! Here's a link that explains how it all works out Flesch Kincaid explained (http://www.utexas.edu/disability/ai/resource/readability/manual/flesch-calculate-English.html). I agree that it depends a lot on your audience.If you're writing for a medical journal, you need to base your writing on research, findings, etc. More difficult to read, but geared for a more educated audience.

On the other hand, if you're writing children's books or a blog post that isn't geared towards medical personnel, it's probably best to keep it simple. Shorter sentences, plain language.

So I guess if I had to pick one guideline - it would be "know your audience." The rest comes naturally!

vangogh
10-11-2012, 02:46 AM
I found my post. It was on the Gunning Fog Index (http://www.vanseodesign.com/blogging/the-secret-to-more-subscribers/). The formula is a little different, but the general idea is the same. It looks like the results map similarly. A score of 10 is a 10th grade reading level. In my post I checked the top 20 blogs on Technorati (That dates my post huh?). They averaged 12+, but some were as high as 15+ I also checked my blog at the time and it was a little over 10. I tend to do well on the syllable per word part, but not so much on the words per sentence part. I like simple words, but I like stringing a lot of them together.

Gabe
10-16-2012, 10:47 PM
As mentioned above, brevity is key. Write as simply as possible. Also, take your audience into consideration. Some people like stories and want to be engaged...I prefer writing that's to the point. Use bulleted lists, bold font and headings to break up your writing and make it less monotonous--especially on the web. Perhaps best of all, write more. Though not specifically on writing, check out the War of Art by Steven Pressfield...it's all about creative work. Copyblogger.com is also a good resource, among others.

vangogh
10-17-2012, 12:01 AM
I'll echo everything you said Gabe, especially about bulleted lists, etc. Some whitespace around your writing makes it much more inviting to read, inviting enough that people often read it.

KristineS
10-17-2012, 11:53 AM
It's also important to know when to write short and when to write long. Some of the most powerful writing ever was three or four words that combined to form a slogan that resonated with those who read it. To the point is great, and I agree that writing around your point is never helpful, but I also think there are times when writing for the sake of the language is fun. Sometimes you write longer because the words are so beautiful, but that's most likely probably not business writing.

Ted
01-09-2013, 07:34 PM
One of the best pieces of advice I have come across is the concept of cheese and whiskers in your marketing.

You can learn about it here - Episode 055:The One Where Dan Sullivan Talks with Dean about Cheese and Whiskers « I Love Marketing (http://ilovemarketing.com/episode-055the-one-where-dan-sullivan-talks-with-dean-about-cheese-and-whiskers/)

Basically, think of your target audience as a bunch of mice.

Your sales page should offer more cheese that causes those mice to stick around and keep eating. Keep feeding them more of what they want.

But whatever you do, don't let them see your whiskers. When they see your whiskers, they start to suspect you might be a cat looking to make them your prey. Their defenses go up. They start wondering where the catch is in your sales offer. They start sensing that your sales page is really just an advertisement that is trying to get them to part with their hard earned money.

I have looked over some of my own sales material using this analogy as a lens. Low and behold, I saw spots where my whiskers were showing. I removed the whiskers, focused on the cheese and improved the sales piece quite substantially.

I am probably not doing this the justice it deserves. Listen to Dean Jackson's explanation. He explains it better. The guy is good.

vangogh
01-15-2013, 11:57 PM
That's an interesting metaphor. Oddly enough it's the second time this week I was pointed to something copywriting related that used the metaphor of cheese.

KristineS
01-16-2013, 01:28 PM
That is an interesting way of thinking about writing for your website. Also find it interesting that it uses mice as the example. Who Moved My Cheese does the same thing.

vangogh
01-18-2013, 04:30 PM
Who Moved my Cheese was the other item I was pointed to. :)

KristineS
01-21-2013, 12:59 PM
Who Moved My Cheese was recommended to me by one of my mentors a long time ago. That and FISH! were the two books we used a lot at that company. Both are good books. I still have a copy of FISH! somewhere.

vangogh
01-23-2013, 12:07 AM
I'll have to add them to my Amazon wishlist. I'd heard of Who Moved My Cheese before, but for some reason the title doesn't make me want to buy it.

KristineS
01-23-2013, 11:51 AM
Both Who Moved My Cheese and Fish! were quite big a while back. FISH! is still around, although it doesn't get the buzz it used to get. Haven't heard anything about Who Moved My Cheese in a while. Both are good books and make good points.

Ted
01-23-2013, 03:17 PM
My reference to Cheese and Whiskers (by Dean Jackson) does not really have anything to do with the book Who moved my cheese. The only thing they share in common is the fact that they both reference "mice and cheese". Other than that, they aren't really about the same thing.

The reference I pointed out gives you a way to look at your copywriting. It uses the reference of mice, cheese and cats to make an analogy of how customers think about your sales materials.

The book "Who moved my cheese?" has nothing to do with copywriting and is in no way related to what I was talking about.

I just wanted to be clear on that because otherwise someone would come away from this conversation thinking that reading the book "Who moved my cheese?" would somehow improve their copywriting. I don't think that is that book's intent, nor is it going to help you be a better copywriter. That "Who moved my cheese" book is a motivational book that talks about how to deal with change in work and life. It is totally irrelevant to copywriting.

KristineS
01-24-2013, 11:45 AM
You're right, Ted. I think Vangogh and I got a bit sidetracked. We do that sometimes. :o Thanks for the clarification.

Business magnate
01-27-2013, 08:47 PM
So what's the best advice about writing that was given to you?
Probably this, "Write simply and without clutter."

I thought that it's good if it's complex. It wasn't consciously done that way. I guess that my logic was that complex sentences have value (or you could say weight) due to their complexity... However now I know, clear writing comes from clear thinking.

KristineS
01-28-2013, 11:36 AM
I tend to write long so I can understand the thought process behind complex being better. I think you have to suit your writing style to the audience and the situation. Sometimes complex is better, sometimes it isn't.

I also agree that clear thinking does help make clear writing. The better and more clearly you understand your subject, the better and more clearly you'll be able to write about it.

Business magnate
01-28-2013, 02:08 PM
Yes, it's true. You have to suit your writing style to the audience... Content quality is subjective. One person can say that article is excellent, other that is basic... It's all about knowledge that the person already have... so sometimes complex is better. However you must be careful doing this, because you can create "muddiness" in your text... that will confuse everyone...

(After some searching, I found my favorite quote about the subject:


"Good writers write in such a way that one can read them aloud and know what they mean. Bad writers have to be studied and re-read and pondered."

KristineS
01-28-2013, 05:52 PM
Flow has a lot to do with it and word choice and even how sentences are structured. To me, bad writing is like someone singing flat. Even if the rest of the song is beautiful, that one flat note sticks out and spoils things. I can tell when I think writing is well done because I get lost in the message and don't notice the art that is going in to creating that message. Clunky writing always pulls me toward the parts that aren't done well. I miss the message because I'm analyzing why the writer made the choices they did.

I also think "good" and "bad" writing are subjective judgments. There are some writers who are universally acknowledged to be "good" or "great" writers that I think are neither. Of course, that's my opinion, but there's something in how they write that doesn't work for me. To me good writing is writing that conveys the message or story without intruding on it.

Business magnate
01-29-2013, 05:32 AM
Flow is an important part of writing, but to have flow, you need deep understanding of the subject, and for that you'll have to research.

Great analogy with writing and singing.


To me good writing is writing that conveys the message or story without intruding on it.
No, no, no... That's great writing. :)

KristineS
01-29-2013, 11:10 AM
Research is an important part of a lot of writing. You can't write well and with the breadth and depth that's needed if you don't understand your subject thoroughly. I think that's something that people forget to tell beginning writers, the more you know about something, the better you're able to write about it.

jacksarlo
04-12-2013, 02:09 PM
The best advice is that you're not writing for yourself, but for a prospect, picture yourself talking with him face to face when writing! Imagine he's in front of you, listening to what you're saying!

Lee Simon
04-13-2013, 10:03 AM
Find out what your prospect’s problem is and show him how your product or service will solve it.
Sell the benefit and the solution. Your marketing plan and sales plan should focus on both of these.

Stay in contact with your previous customers. They are your best source of new business. Besides, it costs 5 times more to market to a new prospect than it does to market to a previous customer.

In your marketing copy, use facts and figures instead of opinions. use names, dates and places wherever possible. Above all, be honest.

Direct your message to one person, not to all. Keep the tone personal. Remove the adjectives, they create disbelief in the reader. Use short paragraphs, short sentences, short words. Do not talk over their heads or beneath their dignity.

If you use direct mail marketing, a letter gets 70% of your orders, a brochure gets 20%, the order form gets 10%, but none of them get anything if your envelope doesn’t get opened. To be a success, direct mail should bring in 2.2 times what you spent on the mailing. it is best to marketing with a phone call first, then send the mailer. If they already know you, or of you, it will get opened. Repeat mailings are needed, since your audience forgets 90% of what they see within two weeks.

Yu can create preferential uniqueness and separate yourself from your competitors in many ways: faster delivery, on-site services, gift wrapping, more frequent follow-up, a longer guarantee, more training, better shipping, free gifts, etc. You must find some way to gain a competitive advantage. If you are in a business or market with a lot of competition, focus your marketing solely on your competitive advantage.

When your prospects compare you with your competition they will look at the following: perception that you are better, different, going to benefit from doing business with you. Do they believe what you are telling them in your marketing? Are they being motivated to buy now or soon?

Your headline is the key to it all. Spend most of your time creating a winning headline. You only have three second to capture their attention. It’s in the headline or not at all. a headline must interest the reader to want to learn more. Here are some ways to do that:
• Speak directly to the reader
• Try headlines that begin with “New” or announce something
• Put a date in your headline
• Announce a free offer
• Start to tell a story
• Begin with “How to” or “How” or “What” of “Which” or “You” or “This”
• Maybe use a one word headline

Most marketing plans that fail do so because they get changed before they have a chance to work.

vangogh
04-16-2013, 12:07 AM
Find out what your prospect’s problem is and show him how your product or service will solve it.

Good advice and something I think gets forgotten all too often. I think a lot of people only see their product or service through their own eyes and forget to think about what problem it actually solves and whether or not people have that problem.

David Hunter
01-15-2014, 08:32 PM
Copywriting is more about research than actually writing. Look at the late, great Gary Halbert. There's a story of him (I believe with Doberman Dan) that Gary would get a project, then he would go out on his boat, run errands, relax, etc. Then, after a few days of play, he would go home and write. Within an hour he had a master piece written.

Patrysha
01-15-2014, 10:28 PM
The witches rules of writing :-)
1. Write what the readers want to read
2. Write to a person not an audience
3. Be you. Be clear. Be brief.

Dan Furman
01-20-2014, 10:56 PM
Copywriting is more about research than actually writing. Look at the late, great Gary Halbert. There's a story of him (I believe with Doberman Dan) that Gary would get a project, then he would go out on his boat, run errands, relax, etc. Then, after a few days of play, he would go home and write. Within an hour he had a master piece written.

So because Gary could do that, everybody can? And that's the rule for copywriting? C'mon...

I can write quick. Others labor. But for everyone, research is easily had these days. But make no mistake, writing is hard.

Qmind
01-21-2014, 01:45 AM
At an internship I wrote a piece and was asked by my director "why would anyone want to read this?", it scared the crap out of me and everything out my mouth after that was gibberish. She wasn't mad, she just wanted me to be sure I knew who I was writing for.

Know your audience and give them something of value.

I looked into the Gunning Fog Index, here's a tool that will do the math for you.

http://gunning-fog-index.com

WhiteRhinoMedia
01-27-2014, 11:19 AM
"Just sell the damn thing"

Sean_DeSilva
01-27-2014, 03:43 PM
Research is absolutely critical, the foundation upon which everything else rests.

Gary Bencivenga, considered to be the best living copywriter before his retirement a few years ago, said 40% of his time was devoted to research. when he did enough research, he said the piece became effortless to write and far more impactful. His letters beats the controls they were against seven times out of eight because he leveraged difficult to fabricate proof elements, making the whole piece believable, more interesting,, and more insightful.

MattBaker
02-03-2014, 01:51 PM
People buy based on emotion and justify their purchases based on logic. Has helped me to look at my copy from an emotional point of view that engages people better than facts... or even benefits for that matter.

Toby Milroy
03-23-2014, 12:04 AM
W.I.I.F.M.
(What's in it for me - the customer/reader)

PrincePatridge
03-25-2014, 04:20 PM
The best material and advice I have received would have to be from A book

called: Cashvertising by Drew Whitman!