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View Full Version : WordPress service providers hiring WordPress service providers to build thier site?



Harold Mansfield
08-14-2012, 10:54 AM
I find it strange how many people there are that profess to offer WordPress services, call looking for a WordPress person to build their website.
What's that all about?

And it's not just WordPress. I've talked to people starting businesses offering all kinds of services, that don't know how to perform the services themselves.
App builders, that need apps built.
Social Media "Experts" that need their Facebook page customized.

I understand that it is common for people to start a business and hire people that have skills. But in this case, isn't it strange to start out offering services and not know how to do it, nor have those people already in place?

Also, how do some propose to start a business offering a service and then hire people who are already in businesses for themselves providing that service, and expect to hire them for less?

Am I missing something about business that I need to understand?

vangogh
08-14-2012, 11:47 AM
I don't think you're missing anything. I think it's often people who go into a business without the skill or experience or desire to be in that business. Lots of people still think running a business online is easy and all you need to do is have a website before the millions start rolling in.

If the site in question was planning on selling WordPress related products, I could see how they could hire others to create the site and the products, etc. If they're service based it's harder to see, though I suppose what they're setting up is a middle man business where they attract all the work and farm it out to others, while skimming a cut off the top. Makes you wonder why they wouldn't use the people they're going to farm work to, to build their site.

Mostly though I think it's people who assume one online business or another is easy. They hear the buzz words like app or social media, WordPress or seo, and think they could do that easy work. Then they start and realize how difficult the work is and hire someone to do it for them.

billbenson
08-14-2012, 05:31 PM
There is another way of looking at this. There are a lot of technical people out there that are lousy marketers. Wordpress designers included. Introverts, very shy people, people that just don't like for feel comfortable being around people. But they may be very capable and happy hiding in a cubicle. I remember a software designer for a company I worked for in CA who mostly took his laptop to a vineyard and wrote code.

Point being, you are making a very big assumption that all wordpress experts can do what you do! I suspect there is a big market for a good business manager to create a business by utilizing the types of people I mentioned.

vangogh
08-14-2012, 07:14 PM
Harold isn't wondering why they can't market their business or manage it. He's asking why someone who offers services to design and develop WordPress sites would hire someone to design and develop his own site. Would huggy hire a plumber to fix a leaky pipe in his house? Would Dan hire someone to write the copy on his site? Probably not in either case. huggy might contract out work to another plumber if he has more work than he can get done. Dan might hire a copywriter to handle projects he's too busy to do. I think they'd both take some of the profit from the job for themselves.

That's probably what the people Harold is talking about are doing. The business could be more of a project management business. The site attracts the client and the work is outsourced. I'd imagine similar things happen with businesses selling app services. With social media and seo it could be the same, but just as likely it's someone who assumed the business would be easy, but once they got started had no clue how to go about the work.

KristineS
08-15-2012, 12:21 PM
I've seen this phenomenon a lot lately. You see it a lot with garment decoration as well, people who decide they'll start a t-shirt or embroidery company without knowing anything about how to create the products or provide the services they're selling. I think, for some people, they just assume that they can put a site up and farm out the work. It probably works in some cases.

Harold Mansfield
08-15-2012, 07:04 PM
I've worked with a few people that provide WordPress website services, but they farm it out to me. But it's a small part of their main business, which may be marketing or or brand indentity management or something. WordPress or Websites isn't the core of their services. I'll work with those people all day long because I'm just a sub and get paid my price whatever it is and they are usually providing complementary services as a whole project. Those are actually easier.

But what I'm seeing is people offering core services, that they don't do, and don't have people doing them. I won't work with those people at all because they usually want to low ball your price so that they can put something on top of it, and they add nothing to the project.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I refuse to help people like that stay in business.

It's a fine line though. I don't mind working for a middle man, but I won't work for one for less because they are trying to build clientele of people who should be coming directly to me anyway.

But on the other hand, I've helped out new WordPress people that just needed a few hours help with something for a client.

Like I said. It's a fine line. I think the middle man with no skills and not trying to get any, but is trying to get a piece of the action,
is my pet peeve.

Business Attorney
08-15-2012, 08:24 PM
I've noticed the same thing with people in forums promoting their SEO services in their signature link and then asking very basic questions that even I know the answer to..What ever happened to learning the ropes first, then selling your expertise?

Harold Mansfield
08-15-2012, 08:27 PM
I've noticed the same thing with people in forums promoting their SEO services in their signature link and then asking very basic questions that even I know the answer to..What ever happened to learning the ropes first, then selling your expertise?

LOL! I've seen that one for years on some of the Webmaster forums. Expecially back when people used to sell traffic. On one section of the forum you'd seen them selling traffic packages and on another you'd see them asking questions about how to get more readers on thier blog.

vangogh
08-16-2012, 04:09 AM
I've noticed the same thing with people in forums promoting their SEO services

That's pretty common. I think especially where seo is concerned so few people really understand what it is and what's involved. Some get into it think it's easy and others get into it because they can easily convince people to give them money for services they don't really know how to tell if they're working. You might have noticed that many of those seo businesses asking the most basic questions are from a specific part of the world that often sells low cost link building services. They might not understand seo, but they do know how to use automated software to generate mostly useless links. Lots of people hear links are important so they buy the services. The providers though don't understand (or maybe they do) how little value those links have and so aren't able to get their own sites ranking well.

I agree with you about learning the ropes first, at least enough so you can offer a valuable service. Not everyone else does though and some people even make money without having ever seen a rope.

Big Momma
08-16-2012, 08:36 AM
Not everyone else does though and some people even make money without having ever seen a rope. LOL! Well that's not me! Making money doesn't come that easily. In the early days I did a bit of winging it: Knowing that I'm going to have to put in a whole lot of hours to learn how to do the thing I said I could. I never thought of hiring someone else.

ZeroZen Design
12-18-2012, 12:46 PM
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly on this. I don't think you are missing anything at all, instead it seems as if some individuals definitely put the "cart before the horse" when designing their "business model". As technology progresses and allows more and more people to work from home, coffee shops, etc., those same individuals follow the outsourcing business model and jump in with both feet...before looking. We work very hard to make sure that each customer gets exactly what they need, without us having to go out and "find someone" else to complete the job. It takes more time to build a business this way, but in the long run it will always pay off.

krymson
12-18-2012, 05:28 PM
I get people that are like wow $350 a month for SEO!!! That's Expensive!!!!

Not really I have to pay someone or myself for the research, writing 4 articles per month managing your social media and promoting your social media, getting relevant external links to your site, learn your industry, and still have to work on my other 3-4 projects I have and work their SEO at the same time... Prices arent cheap.

I have bosses wife from my day job selling SEO services which she directly outsources to me. She don't know jack but she's selling the services.

It's a classic example of people trying to take advantage of a situation, then the client ends up finding out that who they're dealing with and paying so much extra for is a "middle man" and fire the middle man. Now most people aren't smart like me and I hide my contact info in everything I do in case that happens so that end client can still use my services and it doesn't hurt my cash flow if something happens with "the middle man". What happens when the end client has a question that the middle man can't answer? It makes them look stupid.

I dont enjoy working under a middle person, but she brings me enough business to grow my company and she makes a few bucks like 50-100 bucks a month extra without doing much and that was a clause I put in our contract she can't go over 30% mark up. so she stays around 25%

But the point is don't get into something you know nothing about cause when people start asking questions you dont know then you're going to look like a fool and build a bad reputation.

vangogh
12-19-2012, 12:03 AM
it seems as if some individuals definitely put the "cart before the horse" when designing their "business model"

I don't think you have to put the cart before the horse though with this business model. If you know people who are capable of designing and developing WordPress while you're good at sales and marketing, you can build a profitable business that's good for all parties involved, including the clients.


I get people that are like wow $350 a month for SEO!!! That's Expensive!!!!

I hear you. $350 a month is pretty cheap. You can find someone at that price, but you have to be realistic about the return. That price might pay for 3-4 hours a month of work at best. More likely less.