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Vivid Color Zack
12-08-2008, 06:39 PM
I think it would be a good idea for the designers here to come on and give some advice for some of the members on here who either don't have the advertising budget to use a professional, or who really want to do things themselves. I know we get a lot of files that aren't perfect and some printers don't want to deal with fixing files, they simply tell the customer they need to adjust their bleeds, or use other terms they might not even understand. When jobs miss a deadline because of some unforeseen problem that's one thing, but to spend weeks going back and fourth with simple prepress adjustments is ridiculous.

Here are some basic guidelines that we give our customers, feel free to add anything we may have left out or advice you may have. Actually, it might be nice if someone knows publisher inside and out if you could help me come up with some guidelines for using publisher, though we don't really want to encourage that... maybe that's not necessary.

File Setup

Please use our design templates provided here. Proofread all content and check your spelling!
PLEASE SAVE FILES AS-IS. DO NOT INCLUDE CROP MARKS, OR COLOR BARS--IT WILL MAKE OUR SIMPLE PRINTING PROCESS COMPLICATED!!!

Photoshop
Document Size: Add .125" to the length and width.
*Note- 1/16" will be trimmed on all sides to create the image bleed.
Layout: Text must be 1/4" away from the edges.
Resolution: Set resolution to 300 ppi (Image > Image Size > make sure that all boxes are checked at the lower left, and set resolution to 300 pixels/inch)
Color Mode: Set color mode to CMYK (Image > Mode > CMYK Color)
Text: Light colored text on solid dark backgrounds must be 8 pt. font minimum, or if less than 8 pt., set the text to bold.
Solid Black: For areas of solid black coverage, adjust the color setting to: 60% Cyan, 60% Magenta, 60% Yellow, and 100% Black. This will allow the black to print as dark as it is on screen. 100% black by itself will print dull and faded.
Flatten Layers: Flatten all layers and discard the hidden layers. (Layer > Flatten Image)
Save: Save as a maximum quality JPEG.

Illustrator
Document Size: Add .125" to the length and width.
*Note- 1/16" will be trimmed on all sides to create the image bleed.
Layout: Text must be 1/4" away from the edges.
Resolution: Set resolution to 300 ppi (Effect > Document Raster Effects Settings > Select 300 ppi and make sure that color mode is set to CMYK)
Color Mode: Set color mode to CMYK (File > Document Color Mode > Select CMYK)
Images: All pictures and non-line/text artwork should be created in Photoshop at 300 ppi and saved as .TIFF or .JPG. To place into illustrator: (File > Place) Select the file and click on the screen. Move the image to its desired location and click "Embed" at the top of the screen.
Solid Black: For areas of solid black coverage, adjust the color setting to: 60% Cyan, 60% Magenta, 60% Yellow, and 100% Black. This will allow the black to print as dark as it is on screen. 100% black by itself will print dull and faded.
Text: There is more freedom for small font sizes using Illustrator. When the layout is complete, making sure that nothing is selected, then (Select > Select All) --> (Type > Create Outlines)
Save: Save as .EPS or .AI. If available, set Transparency to High Resolution, and select "Include CMYK PostScript".

InDesign (recommended)
Document Size: Add .125" to the length and width.
*Note- 1/16" will be trimmed on all sides to create the image bleed.
Margins: Set margins to 0.00"
Layout: Text must be 1/4" away from the edges.
Resolution: Set resolution to high (Edit > Transparency Flattener Presets > High Resolution)
Color Mode: Set color mode to CMYK (click on the arrow built into the color slider palette and select CMYK, so that the CMYK sliders will display)
Images: All artwork should be created in Photoshop at 300 ppi, CMYK and saved as JPEG. To place into InDesign: (File > Place) Select the file and click on the screen. Move the image to its desired location. If the image appears pixilated, (Right Click on the screen > Display Performance > High Quality). *Note- Do not place .PSD files into InDesign, and do not drag images into InDesign.
Solid Black: For areas of solid black coverage, adjust the color setting to: 60% Cyan, 60% Magenta, 60% Yellow, and 100% Black. This will allow the black to print as dark as it is on screen. 100% black by itself will print dull and faded.
Text: Similar to Illustrator, there is more freedom for small font sizes using InDesign. When the layout is complete, make sure that nothing is selected, then (Edit > Select All) --> (Type > Create Outlines)
Save: Save your work
Export: Export your file as a PDF document (File > Export > Format: PDF > Save). Set the color to CMYK, bleeds 0.00" and under the "Advanced" tab, set the Transparency Flattener to "High Resolution." This will export (save) to your desktop.

cbscreative
12-09-2008, 01:00 AM
I don't envy you, Zack, because no matter what kind of spec sheet you provide, you can't win with DIY files.

My advice, get it professionally done! There are designers in every price range and even the cheap ones are probably a better option than DIY unless you know a few basics.

And I would add EEEK!! Stay away from Publisher! No respectable designer uses this program, and anyone in your business should shun it too. I think you're better off telling customers you can't accept Publisher files than to risk something going wrong. I don't know for sure that Publisher has this problem, but Word does so I would expect Publisher does too. If so, this is only one example of something that could go terribly wrong. If you create a Word file using a particular font, and open the file on another computer that doesn't have the same font, Word will substitute the font and provide NO WARNINGS that it did this.

Here's another problem I see with your spec sheet when you are getting DIY files from customers. Assuming they even understand what ppi is and figure out how to set it 300 ppi, anyone could take a 72 ppi source image, bump it up to 300 and assume they have met your specs. It will still look just as bad as the 72 ppi image when printed, but the readout will say 300. It would still actually be 72 ppi because no graphics program can add data that doesn't exist. Once it's 72 ppi, you can't go higher even if you manually change the number to 300.

The only exception to the above is if you reduce the dimensions proportional to the resolution. Suppose the image is 1000 px wide and 150 ppi. If you drop the size down to 500 px wide, you can then set the resolution at 300 ppi and it would actually be 300 because you are reducing the size in half. The pros would (or should) know this, but it is asking a lot to expect DIY art that is not prone to problems.

I would suggest building a list of freelance people who you could use or recommend as a resource. It should make your life a little easier.

Blessed
12-09-2008, 11:25 AM
Hi Zack!

First I'm going to AMEN everything that CBS Creative said.

I spent 8 years as the senior designer/troubleshooter in a print shop pre-press room and I can say from experience that for the DIY'ers it really didn't matter what kind of spec sheets we offered - the files ALWAYS had to be fixed. The company I worked for got around it by hiring me and another designer and offering professional design at 1/3 to 1/4 of what it would have cost anywhere else.

The only things I have to add are another EEEEKKKK at the thought of Publisher, Microsoft Word OR Corel Draw.

I think the idea of building a list of freelancer's you can refer people to is a great idea - I'm sure that if you talk to the right people you can even find pro's who are still building their business that would be willing to work for your customer's for reasonable rates. (for the designer and your customer) I know I would`1... I've done all right my first year in business, especially with the economy tanking like it has - in the past few months at least half of the job's I've quoted and not gotten are simply "on hold" to see how things are come January or February - I'm not panicked and I also do data entry so it hasn't been horrible but things certainly could be better and I think will be better in 2009!

Vivid Color Zack
12-09-2008, 01:19 PM
hmm... while you guys bring up good points, I feel like putting another step in between finding the customer that wants to work with us and actually selling product might hurt us... but then if I have to spend an afternoon tearing apart and fixing a file it's going to cost me time too.

I don't recommend anyone use publisher, but so many people do. In a lot of cases a business card someone designed in publisher can be recreated in 10 minutes using the right programs so I see that as worthwhile.

I like the freelancer idea, I've got something in the works with that and I'll try to maybe create a page on the site where our approved designers can be reached.

thanks guys

derekanders
12-09-2008, 01:24 PM
Great Post. I agree with staying away from publisher. If you are going to design something might as well do it right and use Photoshop! :D

Vivid Color Zack
12-09-2008, 06:01 PM
Great Post. I agree with staying away from publisher. If you are going to design something might as well do it right and use Photoshop! :D

While photoshop is a great starting point, anyone who sends me a magazine or brochure... flyer, bla bla, anything completely done in photoshop I have to go back and pull out all their text and place it back in using Indesign.

I think most people start out using photoshop and slowly progress to the other programs. I've been training (scary thought, ME training someone) some bad habits out of some of the in house designers we work with from other clients and they're finally giving us print ready work.

For a quick breakdown of why photoshop is limited check this out:

http://www.nw-media.com/ps_intro/html/lesson_1/lesson1_pg3.html

there are other places that have better defined answers and descriptions of raster vs vector images but this should suffice.

cbscreative
12-10-2008, 12:58 PM
I think (hope) derek was kidding on Photoshop. It is a great tool, but using PS for design that should be vector is like using a hammer or pliers when you really need a screwdriver.

Remipub
12-10-2008, 01:48 PM
Just say NO to MS Publisher! I heard a rumor that it was being discontinued ... we can only hope!

I'm curious on a couple of points ... why do you prefer there be no crop marks? Do you just make your best guess as to where the cut should be? And why do you say don't place a psd file into InDesign. That's one of the things I love about InDesign - the fact that you can place AI or PSD files and have them linked ... edit the file in PSD and it automatically changes in INDD.

As for using Photoshop as a primary design tool ... you'd be surprised how many people do this. As long as it was set up correctly, I see no problem printing from a file designed purely in PSD. True, there are easier and better ways to work with files, but as long as there is no resizing required it should print out nicely.

Vivid Color Zack
12-11-2008, 02:00 AM
As far as crop marks go, we do not guess. ripping software is made to work with files of specific sizes. if our system expects a file to come in as 4.125 x 6.125, the rogue cropmarks will read as a larger file size.

We rarely run jobs 1-up if we can avoid it, you may deal with higher volumes than we do but for most of our jobs a gang run is more cost effective for everyone. It is up to the prepress guys to arrange the artwork onto the press sheet. Most of the time, it is going to be multi-up (same file on one sheet) or even run next to a different job. When doing so, we often push the artwork up against each other, with no space in between. The cropmarks would cut into the other design. We only need cropmarks at the edges of the PRESS SHEET.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2984/picture2tm7.png (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture2tm7.png)


Depending on the paper available, or the quantity of production, or even the ink coverage... The prepress department may decide to set up the job for work/turn or work/tumble. Which would change all of the cropmarks again. So leaving this part up to the printer is best. If you clearly indicate what the "finished size" is, and your bleeds are consistent, then there should be no problem with determining where the cuts are.

As for placing PSD files...its only not ok if you drag/drop - but if I advertise compatibility all people will probably here is "drag and drop it's the same."
Placing is technically ok, BUT you will encounter larger file sizes, font issues, and anytime you have large files, font issues, and editable files, you leave yourself prone to errors, omissions, and changes during production. We encourage files to be submitted as a simple PSD.

Also, placing AI files is somewhat inefficient because 1) you cannot edit them in InDesign 2) you've created another link, making the file larger, and 3) copy/paste is great for AI files. Although you're right about the convenience of automatically updating files.

Some of this I'm sure boils down to personal preference, maybe it's just how I'm used to working.

Blessed
12-11-2008, 08:51 AM
My problem with the Adobe Creative Suite is that they try to do everything... rather than focusing on doing what they do well. Using AI and PSD files in InDesign is just another one of my big frustrations with them. Problems with files come in large part from whoever designed them taking shortcuts. It's a shortcut to use the AI and PSD files directly in InDesign instead of saving them as tiff's or eps files first.

Sorry for the soapbox rant - it's leftover frustration from the years I spent in a pre-press department troubleshooting customer files, justifying the time charged to make them work and dealing with irate salespeople who couldn't understand why it took two hours to make a file provided by a customer for an 8-1/2" x 11" flier work. (Printing direct to film, plate or the digital press)

Remipub
12-11-2008, 01:20 PM
Sorry for the soapbox rant - it's leftover frustration from the years I spent in a pre-press department troubleshooting customer files, justifying the time charged to make them work and dealing with irate salespeople who couldn't understand why it took two hours to make a file provided by a customer for an 8-1/2" x 11" flier work. (Printing direct to film, plate or the digital press)

Rant away Blessed ... I feel your pain. I will say that most of my customers who were willing to invest the money in the Adobe Design Suite either have a good idea how to make it work, or are amiable about making modifications when the file comes to me less than ideal. It's those Publisher files (or those like it) that I hate! But using the short cuts built into Adobe CS can be great if the designer understands how to use them. And I must say that Adobe is getting better and better about making their products work well together. We routinely place native Photoshop files into InDesign, then convert the whole package into a high resolution PDF - it works marvellously as long as the settings are correct. I couldn't say the same 5 years ago.

Oh and Zack, (that's my son's name too) we also gang print, but for me that's all the more reason to include crop marks. Especially considering there may be three or 4 different sized jobs on one 28" x 40" sheet. We'll set up a sheet like you showed above, but maybe they're spread out just a bit more so no crops run into the adjacent job. In fact, if I get a file without crop marks, I'll import it into InDesign and add them. As you said, I guess it's a matter of preference and how the imposition software is configured.

Vivid Color Zack
12-11-2008, 08:05 PM
Remi - I like the experience and objective advice you bring to the table. I know I still have a lot to learn and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with me.

Are you guys using cs4 yet? I'm considering it and so far I'm liking the trial version.

cbscreative
12-11-2008, 10:49 PM
Are you guys using cs4 yet? I'm considering it and so far I'm liking the trial version.
I'm holding off on that one and still considering my options. I am very pleased with CS3 since they did not yet "Adobe-ize" the products they acquired from Macromedia (other than a few things in Flash). I expect Photoshop CS4 to be awesome, but the things I am hearing about Dreamweaver are exactly what I was afraid Adobe would do.

Aside from their arrogance, another thing I find annoying with Adobe is if you buy a Suite, you install everything or nothing. Macromedia used to give you the choice to install individual programs in the Suite. If you have the Suite installed like I do, you can't get upgrade price on individual programs. And if I buy the Suite upgrade, I have to install everything.

I have serious doubts that I need to upgrade DW, I work mostly in code anyway. PS has some nice enhancements though. AI drives me nuts with its overcomplicated interface and cumbersome demands to perform simple tasks. I use it only when I need to, so the motivation to upgrade doesn't exist even though recent versions are better than the older ones. I've not investigated the new Flash, so I can't comment on that.

To be fully honest, I wish Macromedia had bought out Adobe instead of the other way around. As cynical as it sounds, I think many people will upgrade more out of necessity to keep current than anything else. Adobe will consider that a stamp of approval and keep doing whatever their marketing dept recommends.

Blessed
12-12-2008, 09:40 AM
Remi - it is true that with CS3 - the programs do seem to work better together than they did with previous versions.

Oh and Zack - we always wanted things with Crop marks too - it was safer. That way you knew you were doing exactly what the customer wanted.

I haven't upgraded yet and I'm holding off as long as possible. I like CS3 and don't see any reason to change. Photoshop does sound like it has some neat improvements but not enough to make me want to upgrade my whole suite... not to mention the price tag.

Vivid Color Zack
12-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Seems like cs3 came out so recently. I wonder if they plan to come out with cs5 in 1 year.

cbscreative
12-12-2008, 07:09 PM
Seems like cs3 came out so recently. I wonder if they plan to come out with cs5 in 1 year.
Nah, make it 14 months, don't want to milk us too much. Oh but wait, they came out with CS3.3 for that. 4.4 should be ready as soon as they upgrade Acrobat again and don't want to wait to release everything at once.

Marcomguy
12-12-2008, 07:47 PM
cbs, I too prefer the flexibility of installing only the programs I need, instead of being forced to install everything in a software suite.

At the risk of incurring everyone's scorn, may I confess that I have used Publisher on occasion - but only when the client uses it too. And yes, a lot of clients, even ones in large companies, work with Publisher. And designers and printers who want their business learn to grit their teeth and love Publisher too.

cbscreative
12-13-2008, 01:25 PM
At the risk of incurring everyone's scorn, may I confess that I have used Publisher on occasion - but only when the client uses it too. And yes, a lot of clients, even ones in large companies, work with Publisher. And designers and printers who want their business learn to grit their teeth and love Publisher too.
OTOH, if we all hold our ground and refuse to cave, we could wipe this scourge off the planet, or so we can hope.

Someone could argue that by being too accommodating, we are contributing to the problem. The users of these kinds of products expect that if they can create something in a software program, someone should be able to produce it as is. Why shouldn't they think that? It's up to production houses to inform them that they have been scammed. If they don't, MS will keep on scamming for profit, and printers get all the headaches.

I don't do production, I am a designer. Both of us (producers and designers) could benefit from educating clients. If the client believes they don't need me because they have Publisher, then I get less work, and production places get crappy files. Clients won't care unless you inform them and charge what is is really worth to fix the junk they give you. I fail to see why we should be financing MS arrogance by enabling them to get away with it.

Marcomguy
12-19-2008, 12:24 PM
If the client believes they don't need me because they have Publisher, then I get less work, and production places get crappy files.

Not sure if a client would believe they don't need you because they have Publisher. More likely they would choose a designer who agrees to work in Publisher so they have some control and ownership of the final output.

I've had two clients who used to get their newsletters designed and laid out in Publisher, then send them to me to edit copy and make sure it fit. If I had owned, say, InDesign and not Publisher, I wouldn't have gotten the jobs.

cbscreative
12-19-2008, 04:51 PM
Marcom, since you work in Publisher, I'm curious to know if it has the same issue I mentioned earlier that Word does. If you share a Word file and it uses a font that is not on the computer being shared with, Word is nice enough to swap the font with whatever it feels is the best substitute. Since it is so user friendly, it doesn't want to bother the user with an annoying notice saying that a font was substituted. It just does this quietly without any warnings. How does Publisher handle font matching?

Marcomguy
12-23-2008, 12:11 PM
Hmm, good question, to which I don't know the answer. The clients who used to send me Pub files were using standard fonts like Times Roman and Verdana.

Publisher allows you to embed fonts, however.

I'll hunt around for someone who has Publisher and ask them to send me a file with an unusual font that hasn't been embedded. Let's see what happens.

Vivid Color Zack
12-25-2008, 12:26 AM
Also, can you outline fonts in publisher?

Marcomguy
12-28-2008, 11:06 AM
Publisher uses the same font manipulation as Word. You can highlight a character and select Outline in the Format - Font... menu, which will convert the solid character to an open outline. You can also engrave, emboss and add a shadow.

If you want a solid font with an outline of a different color, you'll need to do it by clicking WordArt and then formatting it the way you want.

cbscreative
12-28-2008, 08:58 PM
Publisher uses the same font manipulation as Word. You can highlight a character and select Outline in the Format - Font... menu, which will convert the solid character to an open outline. You can also engrave, emboss and add a shadow.

If you want a solid font with an outline of a different color, you'll need to do it by clicking WordArt and then formatting it the way you want.
That just naturally leads me to wonder about the resolution. These types of things are usually fine for an internal newsletter or something of that nature, even if they have that homemade look. Low resolution "Look ma I did it myself" effects in promotional materials could backfire. Then again, maybe I'm a graphic design snob because WordArt is major turn-off to me. It reminds me of those cheesy sign software effects of the 1980's that were used "just because they could."

Marcomguy
01-01-2009, 03:10 PM
Hmm, good question, to which I don't know the answer. The clients who used to send me Pub files were using standard fonts like Times Roman and Verdana.

Publisher allows you to embed fonts, however.

I'll hunt around for someone who has Publisher and ask them to send me a file with an unusual font that hasn't been embedded. Let's see what happens.

Finally got the answer to this one. Publisher doesn't automatically substitute fonts. It warns you that the font is unavailable and gives you the option of choosing a substitute font.

ShopLady
01-03-2009, 04:44 PM
I think hiring a web writer/designer for the first time a few years ago has turned me off to the idea itself due to a bad experience with that person, and that inspired me to learn nearly everything on my own. Very glad that I did. But, I encourage everyone to get a handle on the basics of web design and graphic design before hiring someone so that whoever they hire can be appreciated by more than a payment for the frustration and hard work that gets put into it.