Interesting results for JCPenny's

[Watchdog]

Whats so good about coupons? Not much, unless your core customers are coupon-ers.

I find this very interesting because of the coupon program we have built and are getting ready to launch locally.

JCPenney Sales Dip After Changes in Marketing, Pricing | Moneyland | TIME.com (http://moneyland.time.com/2012/05/17/why-jcpenneys-no-more-coupons-experiment-is-failing/)

[AlexMc]

This is interesting, I don't quite understand why they would change JCP. Don't fix what isn't broken right? I've never been a couponer, but I can see why those who are would really be let down by this. Either they made a huge mistake, or this happens "some analysts still foresee a future in which JCPenney’s gambit works out splendidly and winds up being copied by other retailers in the long run."
I hope JCP can pull through and their stubborn shoppers will come back around.

[vangogh]

I had seen some reports showing JC Penny's new approach hasn't been going over well. I think the company is sticking with the approach for now. Ron Johnson is the person behind the changes. He did very well with the last two retail business he was in charge of. Most recently he's been the head of Apple retail and before that he was with Target. He was successful at both and I think both he and JC Penny want to give his ideas more time. I'm sure there's a limit on how long JC Penny will stick with the non-coupon idea, but it is different and something customers aren't used to. It might just need some time to work out. Then again it may be something too different for their customers who'll never buy in.

It'll be interesting to see how their next quarter goes and what they do after based on the results the see.

[Harold Mansfield]

I remember back in the day that JC Penney's used to pull people into the store with thier quarterly catelog. I know I used to look forward to it for back to school shopping.
Seems like many of the old catalog companies are still having problems capturing that same enthusiasm in this age of so much instant information and competition.

Penny's and Sears were the kings of the catalog and K-Mart used to be the king of the mailer sales paper. None of that works anymore.

As far as the coupons go. Psychologically, people are attracted to a discount. Even if the discounted price comes out to be the same as competitors. Seems like "one low price" only works for stores that whose identity is low prices, which Penny's is not.

I always thought Penney's attraction is that they carried mid range, well known brands that companies like Sears didn't carry..such as Levi Jeans. The last time I checked, it was still cheaper to buy Levis at Penny's than it was at say a Gap. But you are also limited on selection. Haven't really been there in a while so I can't say for sure.

But that also brings up an even better point. The reason that I haven't been to Penney's in a while is because they are located in malls and I don't have a need to go to a mall anymore.
That's a bigger issue. How do you get people out of the house and back into malls with so many specialty, discount, and overstock stores like TJ Maxx and Burlington where your dollar goes further for the same products ( and more brand prossiblities) , and online shopping where you don't even have to leave the house and someone will bring it to you?

Do adults even still go to malls anymore? Most mall stores don't even cater to people 30+. And it's certainly not the best place to buy electronics.
The only adults I know that still go are those that have kids/ teenagers.

[KristineS]

I've seen some discussion of this too. I think, as a culture, we're addicted and habituated to the sale and coupon. It makes many people feel like they're being "smart shoppers" or getting a deal. The problem is that most don't know prices are raised first to allow for sale discounts and that coupons really don't for most people save you that much. If you're really dedicated to it, yeah, you can probably save money, but when you add up all the time spent clipping and sorting and organizing and plotting and planning, you probably could have done as well by getting a full time job.

Harold has a good point too. Our JC Penney is in a mall. I remember looking at the catalog when I was a kid and shopping there with my Mom for back to school clothes, but I haven't been to a JC Penney or a Sears in years. Now I shop online, primarily, and the mall holds no appeal. That's where the real problem is, I think, more people are shopping online and the traditional mall chain stores aren't keeping up with that.

[vangogh]

The reason that I haven't been to Penney's in a while is because they are located in malls and I don't have a need to go to a mall anymore.

When I first moved to Boulder the mall here was slowly going under. It had been the lone mall in the area and pulled in people from nearby towns. Then a different kind of mall opened in one of those other towns. It's less single building mall than a series of stores clustered together. You wouldn't walk from one end of the mall to the other. They provide transportation to take you from one set of stores to another. It has a much less mall feeling and it definitely brings people in.

After years and several different owners the mall here in Boulder reopened, but again different. It's an outdoor mall. Essentially two rows of upscale stores. There's no inside the mall, only inside each store. You find the typical things like a food court (a handful of places near each other) and the lone multiplex theater in town. It a very different experience from the malls we all grew up with. I go because there are a few stores there that I shop at. You never feel like you're in a mall though so you don't feel like you want to stay away.

[BNB]

I live next to the largest mall in Florida.... as in, you turn into the mall entrance and my building is right there. They are as busy as every. There is a JCPenney's outlet store which is NOT the same as a jcp branded store. Steady flow of traffic, really inexpensive too. They seem to do just fine.

I don't know if they do the same sales as a jcp now, I'm guessing not. In fact, I'm guessing they do the old style coupons and sales at the outlet store.

[vangogh]

They might still go with coupons, though I was under the impression the new strategy was to eliminate them across all their stores as part of the rebranding. Maybe they've only started in certain stores. It's an interesting idea that so far clearly hasn't worked. I think in fairness to what they're doing the idea needs to be given time. It'll be interesting to see revenue and profit for the next quarter. Maybe the idea never works. Maybe it just takes more time to take hold. I assume JCP wasn't doing great to begin with for them to have changed so radically, though I'm only guessing.

[billbenson]

On outlet stores in general: I read an article recently where outlet stores don't sell the merchandise with the same quality at the outlet stores. I don't know how they can do that and still put their name on it but...

[MissesBeatriz]

I guess I'm the only one that enjoys malls (hahahhahaha) But you see, in my case, the mall in my country (Nicaragua) is like a trip! People get dressed up, walk around a little, there are events going on in the main plaza and a whole area of nice fancy wine lounges and restuarants to another side. However, when it comes to JC Penny, they just haven't been able to catch up. They have tried coupons? Seriously? The only coupons I use are on groupon or something similar. I know JCP has also tried a few clothing collaborations with celebrities like Lauren Conrad and the Kardashian sisters but they don't measure up to Macys. Macys on the other hand has its own brand, Impulse by Macys and now Bar III which is edgy and competitively priced. They have a great PR and Events team and constantly have their in store designers speak and show at Macys AND offer crazy sales year round. I'm going to give JC Pennys a couple years, I mean who really goes anymore? I think I was 9 when I last went because my mom forced me into a family photo session, so chessy!.....JCP is just way behind in trends, store layout, image, and ideas.

[vangogh]

They have tried coupons? Seriously?

The idea is they're trying to eliminate coupons and I think ultimately make the brand seem more upscale. The problem so far is their customers like coupons. It may just take time for their customers to get used to no coupons or it may be a complete misread by JCP. I don't think we've had enough time to tell yet.

Coupons do create a sense of urgency and their lack is apparently keeping customers away. JCP will need to do more work to change what people think about their brand to get customers coming in without coupons. It can be done, but it'll take some effort. They might have done better to start by changing other aspects of their brand before removing the coupons and discounts.

[queenvictoria]

JC Penny has had quite the year as far as advertising goes. I'm sure everyone remembers their search engine results plummeting after implementing 'black hat' tactics. Or at least that's how Google classified them.

Unfortunately once rankings drop that drastically, it takes a gambit in order to get back to where they once were as far as advertising and customer base goes.

[billbenson]

The idea is they're trying to eliminate coupons and I think ultimately make the brand seem more upscale. The problem so far is their customers like coupons. It may just take time for their customers to get used to no coupons or it may be a complete misread by JCP. I don't think we've had enough time to tell yet.

Coupons do create a sense of urgency and their lack is apparently keeping customers away. JCP will need to do more work to change what people think about their brand to get customers coming in without coupons. It can be done, but it'll take some effort. They might have done better to start by changing other aspects of their brand before removing the coupons and discounts.

When I'm in a grocery store and the lady in front of me takes 15 minutes thumbing through her coupons for the ones she needs it's a good thing I don't carry a firearm! Then no doubt she will pay by check which takes another 10 minutes.

[BNB]

JCP will be fine... by the way, it's jcp now, not jcpenney. Though they still go by both to an extent during the transition.

[vangogh]

I'm sure everyone remembers their search engine results plummeting after implementing 'black hat' tactics

You know I'd forgotten about that. I wonder how much it contributed to their poor quarter.


When I'm in a grocery store and the lady in front of me takes 15 minutes thumbing through her coupons for the ones she needs it's a good thing I don't carry a firearm! Then no doubt she will pay by check which takes another 10 minutes.

And of course this is all happening in the express checkout line. :)


by the way, it's jcp now, not jcpenney.

All part of the rebranding I assume. By the way what's with companies dropping their name in favor of their initials? Were most of their customer's referring to them as JCP already so they figured they might as well adopt it too? Isn't that how Kentucky Fried Chicken became KFC?

[Harold Mansfield]

. By the way what's with companies dropping their name in favor of their initials? Were most of their customer's referring to them as JCP already so they figured they might as well adopt it too? Isn't that how Kentucky Fried Chicken became KFC?

It's a really sad time in marketing is what it is. Vegas started doing it a few years back. Treasure Island became "TI" and all of the new restaurants and clubs are named one word, one syllable verbs, nouns or adjectives "Aqua". "Light". "Pure". "Cut". "Tao". It still disgusts me. Nothing turns me off more than a company throwing everything at being trendy and abandoning their core values AND loyal demographic.

I've always called Kentucky Fried Chicken, "KFC". But I've never called Penney's "JCP", we called it "Penny's".

[billbenson]

It's a really sad time in marketing is what it is. Vegas started doing it a few years back. Treasure Island became "TI" and all of the new restaurants and clubs are named one word, one syllable verbs, nouns or adjectives "Aqua". "Light". "Pure". "Cut". "Tao". It still disgusts me. Nothing turns me off more than a company throwing everything at being trendy and abandoning their core values AND loyal demographic.

I've always called Kentucky Fried Chicken, "KFC". But I've never called Penney's "JCP", we called it "Penny's".

Treading on thin ice there Eborg. My real name is William but I rebranded myself as Bill!

[vangogh]

Harold with Kentucky Fried Chicken I think we all just said KFC, since it was easier. I can remember doing it as far back as 30 years ago. I always figured they went with it since that's what they're customers had been calling their brand anyway. Now it seems like everyone wants to do that. I used think of JC Penny's as Penny's. Of course maybe that's what they'd like to get away from. A penny doesn't say high end. Maybe they think JCP will be able to. Assuming that's where they're ultimately going with this.


My real name is William but I rebranded myself as Bill

You're giving us incentive to rebrand you as William. :)