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billbenson
05-07-2012, 11:30 PM
I was thinking about getting Adobe Elements. I used to use Photoshop but haven't in a few years. All I really need to do is batch resize images and remove backgrounds. Will Elements do this for me?

vangogh
05-08-2012, 01:55 AM
Probably. Elements is a stripped down version of Photoshop. Unless you're someone who works with images and graphics professionally it will probably do everything you need. I'm not sure about the batch editing, since that could fall under the description of professional. I think Adobe offers a free 30 day trial if you want to give it a spin.

I just checked and they do have a try before you buy option.

billbenson
05-08-2012, 02:19 AM
Ya, and actually I just found a tutorial for batch editing with it...

vangogh
05-08-2012, 11:11 AM
I guess that answers that question then. If it does the batch editing it probably does what you need.

Does this mean you've given up on GIMP?

billbenson
05-08-2012, 03:17 PM
Does this mean you've given up on GIMP?

Pretty much. I find it very cumbersome to use. I also ended up with a windows computer. I bought a bare bones PC kit and was told by Tiger Direct that it was Linux compatible but its not. Its kind of hard to return a computer when its already built so I'm setting up a windows machine.

vangogh
05-09-2012, 01:19 AM
I gave GIMP a try a couple of times and never cared for it. Nothing about it was intuitive. I was always having to spend time figuring out how to do something that should have been simple.


I also ended up with a windows computer.

My condolences. :)

cbscreative
05-14-2012, 12:42 PM
You may have noticed I wasn't here this past week, but the question was accurately answered. I often get asked about PS, and unless you do pro editing like I do, it's overkill and a luxury that may be nice to have, but not needed for most users. I doubt you'll need anything Elements won't be able to do. The Full PS will do more faster, but has a higher price tag for the privilege.

Now that you've moved into Windows, bill, I would caution you about MS Updates. I was trained in school to use the Updates (curriculum probably written by MS), but in practice I've been so frustrated by having my machine knocked out of whack that I've found it worse than most of the risks. Use a good anti virus and firewall, avoid Norton and McAfee like a plague (which I think they are), set your Updates to Notify so you can pick and choose what and if any to apply, and a Windows machine should run trouble free.

When something does change and the computer begins to misbehave (usually caused by an Update or software install), System Restore is a great tool to have.

billbenson
05-14-2012, 01:10 PM
Thanks Steve. My wife has been using Avast free antivirus and hasn't had any virus problems. Do you have one you recommend?

The windows computer is really just my hot standby computer. I do have a program that is only available on windows I want to run though. Who knows, maybe I'll like windows better. I haven't used it in several years now. I'm sure its changed quite a bit.

cbscreative
05-14-2012, 05:49 PM
You're welcome. The Avast is good. No reason not to recommend staying with that. Although I use a different AV on our other computers, my desktop (my primary computer) is running Avast. I've been using it for over a year and have been very happy.

It may take some adjustment working on W7, but it does grow on you. There are things I wish they'd done differently and XP behaviors I wish they had kept, but overall, I do like it.

krymson
05-14-2012, 06:11 PM
As a former geek squad employee, please please please, make recovery discs, so incase anything ever does happen, you have your recovery discs to get your computer pack up and running again it will save you SO much time.

billbenson
05-14-2012, 10:47 PM
When I last used windows, I put data on drive 2 and windows on drive 1. I made a disk image of drive 1 after the initial install and then again after I installed all the programs I use.

I noticed that windows 7 has a recovery disk option (if I interpreted it right). Would you recommend the recovery disk or the disk image option I used to do?

cbscreative
05-15-2012, 11:06 AM
When I last used windows, I put data on drive 2 and windows on drive 1. I made a disk image of drive 1 after the initial install and then again after I installed all the programs I use.

I noticed that windows 7 has a recovery disk option (if I interpreted it right). Would you recommend the recovery disk or the disk image option I used to do?

I would think either will be fine. I've never had to use the recovery so I have no experience with it. I do end up using the System Restore on a regular basis and it takes care of buggy behavior. As mentioned above, the problems seem to come from MS Updates. Everything works great until you accept the wrong updates.

Oh, one more thing with running Windows. I use a registry cleaner and run a standard sweep daily. About every 2-3 months I do a thorough cleaning which keeps the performance up. Things tend to get stopped up and the registry cleaner is like using Drano on the pipes.

Harold Mansfield
05-19-2012, 02:00 PM
Sounds like Windows XP stuff that you guys are speaking of. EVer since I've had Windows 7, I haven't noticed any of that. And there are far less updates than that every other day of XP.

Going back to Adobe Elements if I may, Adobe now has a monthly service that allows you to use the entire CS6 suite of tools and software. It may be kind of pricey if you are only interested in one or 2 products at $49.99 a mo ( when you pay for 12 months up front) , or $79.00 on a month to month plan.

But if you want access to the whole creative suite, I can see how it would be cost effective.
Adobe (http://www.adobe.com/)

vangogh
05-20-2012, 12:36 AM
Even if you use most of what's in the creative suite I don't think it's really cost effective. At $49.99 a month you're paying $600 a year. The cost to upgrade the master suite is $575, Naturally you'd have to have purchased the master suite at $2600 to qualify for upgrade prices. Of course the downside to paying the annual price is if you ever stop paying you don't own the software. It stops working.

With some of the other suites the upgrade price is $375 or $275 and the initial price of the suite is $1900 or $1300. A few years in and you'll have spent more on the monthly and not own the software. Unless you truly use most every program Adobe makes and use them often, you're probably still better off buying whatever you need.

If you only want Elements or even the full Photoshop you definitely just want to buy them outright.

cbscreative
05-21-2012, 11:13 AM
I was surprised by these prices because I hadn't checked the Upgrade pricing yet. That's come down quite a bit. CS5 or 5.5 Premium Suites were going for around $800 for Upgrade (about $600 when first released). Now they're only $375.

That really closes the gap on the subscriptions. They have always been more costly than buying ever since they started offering the option, but with Upgrades being so much lower now, it makes even less sense than before to choose a subscription.

Since the discussion here has covered both Adobe and W7, I thought I would mention I recently had to reinstall my CS5.5 because something in one of MS Updates caused the software to start acting really weird. The reinstall quickly fixed everything but my disdain for MS Updates was heightened.

vangogh
05-21-2012, 11:34 AM
The monthly price sounds good when you first hear it, but once you start looking at the numbers they really aren't that great. I think the selling point is you get to use every Adobe product, but realistically the majority of us will use the same one, two, or three products we currently use and never use the rest. Also the set up isn't one where you can use something like Photoshop on any computer. You still need to download Photoshop to use it and I think you're allowed the same 2 computers you can use it on now.

What I dislike most though is that if at anytime you stop paying the monthly fee your software stops working. The only thing I see this as is a way for Adobe to get us locked into buying their software. It's to me another reason why I'd like to move away from Adobe products entirely.

cbscreative
05-21-2012, 01:15 PM
but realistically the majority of us will use the same one, two, or three products we currently use and never use the rest

I'm guilty of that for sure. I currently use the Design Premium and most of the apps never get opened. My main reason for the Suite is like probably most users. If you use even two apps, but especially for three, the Suite ends up being less expensive than buying them separately.

I'm not really a huge fan of Adobe either, but I do find Photoshop to be the best (also very pleased with Dreamweaver). I have Corel PhotoPaint, but rarely ever use it. Corel has a product called Painter which I've never tried, but it does have a following and I would expect it to be pretty good. As the name implies, it seems to a digital painting app and not a photo editing app. It might be fun to play with, I just don't have the time and if I did, I'd probably go back to painting with real brushes and real paint.

My main issue with Adobe is lack of customizing options and a "my way or highway" attitude. They've gotten a little better in recent years but still annoying. The new Photoshop (CS5 that is) has one behavior I didn't care for at all. For nearly two decades they had a zoom tool behavior that made perfect sense the way it was: you click and drag across the area you want to zoom to. Now you click and drag it only zooms in; you can't control zooming to a specific area. After zooming I usually have to pan to get the area I want. True to Adobe's annoying practices, there is now way to change this to "classic" if you don't like the improvement.

I do like the CS5, but that is one thing I wish they had at least included the option to override.

BNB
05-21-2012, 03:03 PM
The selling point is that 95% of Adobe users can't really afford the software - most people who use the software aren't the ones who can afford $2,000. Most people can afford $49.99

Very smart move by Adobe.

cbscreative
05-21-2012, 04:06 PM
The selling point is that 95% of Adobe users can't really afford the software - most people who use the software aren't the ones who can afford $2,000. Most people can afford $49.99

Very smart move by Adobe.

I'm not so sure about that one. First, you have to shell out $600 to get that rate and after a year you have nothing if you don't continue. I have to agree with vangogh that I find that very unappealing. Second, if you can't afford the software you're not really their target market and it would be overkill for your needs. That's one reason this thread was about Elements because unless you're a power user, Elements has all the bells and whistles you need for considerably less money.

In a production environment, cost is a relative issue. Before upgrading last year to CS5.5, I was using CS3. Because another office computer was using even older products (Photoshop 7, AI 10, and Macromedia MX 2004), I wanted to move the CS3 over which is what I did. This meant needing the Full version of CS5.5 rather than an Upgrade. The productivity enhancements between the two versions made it worthwhile so I could easily justify the investment.

And this is just for a single user (me). A few minutes saved each day add up to several hours per month. Imagine an office with 5, 10, or 50 people each able to gain a couple hours of productivity each week. In my business model, the hourly rates are comparatively low. Many studios bill out anywhere from $85 to $150+ per hour. Boosting productivity improves profits and makes the software more than affordable.

BTW, I did notice that the new Upgrade prices are only for CS5 users. If you have CS3 or 4, Upgrade is $950! Anything below CS3 doesn't appear to qualify for Upgrade. This is a new strategy, but it actually makes sense. It not only makes an Upgrade a little easier on the wallet, if they maintain this structure, it's a couple hundred cheaper than skipping a version before upgrading. On the downside, I don't like switching that often because each new version requires an adjustment period.

Statistically, most people skip a version and I found it interesting that the "odd" versions are the most popular (especially since I myself settle on the odd versions). It's not just Adobe either, other software companies experience the same thing.

vangogh
05-22-2012, 12:00 AM
I'm not so sure how well this will turn out for Adobe. I think what they'll find is the people who bought and then upgraded one of the suites every year might sign up. They'll likely also pick up some people who may only need to use Photoshop or InDesign for one project. They'll buy in for a month and then cancel.

$49.99 is affordable except you only get that price with a year commitment so you're spending $600 and $49.99. Also most people don't use more than a few products at most. Even if you sign up thinking how cool it will be to use them all, you're going to realize before too long that you still use the same one or two products you always used. If you're someone who truly uses many different Adobe products and you're someone who was going to upgrade every year anyway, then maybe this deal is fine. I think it would make more sense if after a certain length of time in the program you at least got to keep a working copy of the software should you decide to stop membership. Imagine though paying your membership for the next 4 years and then not be able to pay one year for whatever reason. You're completely out of luck at that point.

I'm still running Photoshop CS4. I typically upgrade once every few years since the upgrades are still pricey. This is the last year where you can get the upgrade price for anything other than the current version so I'm planning on upgrading to CS6. Then I'm hoping some of the newer entries into the market like Pixelmator (http://www.pixelmator.com/) ($29.99) will have advanced far enough by the time I think I need another upgrade. I'm ready to move away from Adobe.

cbscreative
05-22-2012, 12:18 PM
$49.99 is affordable except you only get that price with a year commitment so you're spending $600 and $49.99. Also most people don't use more than a few products at most. Even if you sign up thinking how cool it will be to use them all, you're going to realize before too long that you still use the same one or two products you always used. If you're someone who truly uses many different Adobe products and you're someone who was going to upgrade every year anyway, then maybe this deal is fine. I think it would make more sense if after a certain length of time in the program you at least got to keep a working copy of the software should you decide to stop membership. Imagine though paying your membership for the next 4 years and then not be able to pay one year for whatever reason. You're completely out of luck at that point.

I think you're right on all points. Adobe is the "industry standard" because they do make good software. When they bought out Macromedia, they got even better though I wish they had adopted more of the MM thinking. The programs in the Suites are all great programs, but they're so good that it's impractical to master more than a few of them. If you're not utilizing a significant amount of the capability, then the software is overpriced and less expensive options are more practical.

Personally, paying even for one year and only "renting" the software is more loss than I care to endure. I can see some situations where short term use would be practical, but over the long haul doesn't make much sense. Of course, rent to own companies are a complete rip off too, but the model continues to thrive.

A couple benefits I do get from Suites that I wouldn't want to give up: Even programs I rarely use are nice to have on the occasions where I need them, and I routinely get source files in various formats which I can open and use. Sure, you can always ask for a different format, but it helps to not need to. I wouldn't want to buy most of these apps separately, so it's nice to have them included in a Suite.

Harold Mansfield
05-22-2012, 01:00 PM
I can see where the monthly may be a solution for some, but personally I hate subscriptions. I'd rather own what ever it is. Those little monthly charges start adding up. $10 a month here. $40 a month there. $70 a month for something else. I want a few things as possible autobilled and I want those to be the most absolutely neccessary things....hosting, internet, domain renewals and so on.

vangogh
05-23-2012, 12:14 AM
Adobe is the "industry standard" because they do make good software.

I agree. I'm definitely not questioning the quality and usefulness of their software. I think some of it is getting bloated, but they are still the industry standard for a reason. At the same time I am seeing competition growing, at least on the Mac side. I already mentioned Pixelmator. Acorn (http://flyingmeat.com/acorn/) is another. Neither can compete with Photoshop feature for feature, but they are being worked on and getting better. Give them a few years and we'll see where we are.

It would even be good for Adbobe users to have some of these other programs catch up since it'll mean Adobe's products need to compete more, ideally on price. While I plan on sticking with Photoshop for now, I can envision a time where I use 3 or 4 different programs, each costing around $50 to meet most of my needs.


paying even for one year and only "renting" the software is more loss than I care to endure.


I hate subscriptions. I'd rather own what ever it is.

I agree with you both. I'd rather own and not rent software too. I don't like the idea that I have to continue paying in order to keep using the software.