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View Full Version : found a 2010 brand new left over work van...whats it worth since its 2 years old



huggytree
01-11-2012, 09:49 PM
i am in the market for a brand new work van

I just got a $2,000 rebate card from GM in the mail....its good through Feb

the ones i buy sticker for $36,000

mine has 141,000 miles and ive started to search...im not in a hurry, but if the right deal comes along ill bite...i have a year or more

i found a left over 2010....shocking.....they want $30,900 for it.....i dont think $5,000 off is enough for a 2 year old van...yea its new, but in a way its really not new....

i also found a 2011 for $30,500....now that price is closer to a correct price since its really only 6 months or so old

i am working one dealer against another....i also found a used 2011 w/ 55,000 miles on it for $23,000 (they refused to bargain, but 2 days later offered $1000 off...i offered $19,000 since 1/3rd of its life is gone-so we are miles apart)

i made an offer on the 2010 tonight for $27,000.....add my rebate and thats $11,000 off sticker.....i know they wont accept it, and im willing to bargain up $1,000 to $28,000

is asking $9,000 off a $36,000 van thats been sitting on a lot for 2 years asking too much????

i worry about flat spots on the tires and the battery being bad....its just sitting there rotting

Steve B
01-12-2012, 06:59 AM
I agree with you on the 2010 - problems are going to start creeping in just because it's been sitting. I honestly would rather buy a 2 year old van that has been driven than a 2 year old van that just sat. I think the dealership messed up by not giving it away cheap to someone last year.

I personally wouldn't spend that much on any of those vans. Even the lowest price you're considering ($19,000) is plenty to replace the engine and transmission on your current van. You could probably even put in a great stereo and have money left over. I'd keep what you have and just fix things as necessary.

huggytree
01-12-2012, 08:17 AM
my van is starting to rust and not look so good....it has a skirt under the cube part and its collapsing....the back door looks horrible and the back bumper is 1/2 rust

its starting not to fit my image....im spending $2,000+ on repairs now every 6 months....it just went in and now it has some more issues.

i am going to try for $6500 off on the 2011 and $9,000 off on the 2010....

when i was shopping for my new car last year i found no dealer would bargain with me here in WI, but in northern IL almost every dealer was at invoice pricing within minutes.... im on the border with IL, so its no big deal to cross the border to buy the van....the 2011 is in IL and is already priced cheaper than the 2010..i wonder if the recession is hitting harder in IL and they need any sale.....

i figure the dealership who still has the 2010 has a pre-recession mind set....there's got to be a strange reason its still there.....they just see it as a new work truck and dont see it as being 2 years old....since the recession people arent just jumping into things...they want the best value for their money....trying to sell a 2010 for more than a 2011 tells me this dealer will continue to keep that van for months to come....until they finally decide they will lose big and to unload it....maybe i will get lucky and they will come to this way of thinking within the next few weeks....or maybe it will take the 2013's arriving to figure it out.

Steve, with work vans i always thought used, but if i can get a brand new one for $11,000 off sticker how can i pass it up? a 5 year/100,000 mile warranty will save me money....i typically drive it 20,000 a year, so ill take full advantage of that 100,000 mile warranty

once i get the van then i need to get a full vehicle wrap, upgrade the suspension, replace all 6 tires.........i may have my old one already sold to a friend for $3,000

nealrm
01-12-2012, 08:56 AM
I disagree with buying a new van. The amount you will loose in depreciation over the next 2 years make purchasing new a financially poor decision. Instead I would look for a used 2010 or 2011. With the number of business that down sized over the last few years, it shouldn't be hard to locate a low mileage alternative. A quick Google search shows prices that are running half of what a new van would cost.

Business Attorney
01-12-2012, 10:03 AM
Whenever I've done the "new versus used" analysis in the past, I've always found that the supposed savings of having someone else suffer the rapid depreciation in the early years are largely offset by the increased expenses and headaches in the later years.

If you could get a very low mileage (say, 20,000 miles) two-year-old van for $19K, then the math could change, but if you are paying two-thirds of the cost of a new van for two-thirds of the life, plus you are the one who has to drive the van from years 3 to 6, picking up the increased maintenance and repairs in those years without getting the advantage of the first two largely low-maintenance years, who is getting the best deal --the original owner, whose $11,000 ($30,000 minus $19,000) cost him $5,500 per year or you, whose $16,000 ($19,000 minus $3,000 resale value) over 4 years may only be $4,000 in depreciation but you have to pay for maintenance and repairs like complete brake jobs, shocks, struts and all the other things that need replaced to get a truck from 55,000 to 155,000 miles? Another consideration is that the cost of your "full vehicle wrap, upgrade the suspension, replace all 6 tires", if also required on the used truck, are spread over 4 years on a used truck rather than 6 on a new truck. Don't forget to add the value of your time to buy and upgrade a truck every 4 years rather than every 6.

If you can get a great deal on a used truck, I'd agree with Steve B and nealrm, but you need to be careful not to get sucked into the semi-automatic thinking that a used vehicle is a money-saver.

billbenson
01-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Huggy, how old is your van that it has that much rust? Do vehicles that are always outside just not last very long in snow country? I would think you put 141k miles on your van pretty quickly as much as (I think) you drive.

Business Attorney
01-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Do vehicles that are always outside just not last very long in snow country?

Snow country = Road salt country. Even if the vehicle is garaged (unless it isn't driven in the winter), the corrosive effect of all the salt they put on the roads and streets really takes a toll on a car or truck in this area.

huggytree
01-12-2012, 08:40 PM
my van is a 2000 express 3500 cube van....its body is aluminum and its rotting....the metal structure under the side skirt area just rotten and actually fell off....so the aluminum (full of holes) is flopping around in the breeze.....the van still looks great at a glance...its not an eyesore...its definitely not new looking at all...it looks old

the new vans im looking at dont have the skirt under the box...its just open around the back wheels

today brought some new info and ive narrowed down my selection to ONE

2011 chevy express 4500..(the others were 3,500)...the 4500 option takes me to medium duty...it handles the weight i carry(no upgrades necessary)...also has better brakes(which my current van needs every 25,000 miles and costs me $1,500+ each time).....my current van is over loaded, so the 4500 model is the way to go...
sticker is 35,785...........ive got them down to 30,595 + my $2000 gm bucks, so $28,595

Im asking for another $1,310 off to buy it...but i will take it if they go $810 off

now the waiting game starts....ill give them a week or 2 before i contact them again....then ill probably go there in person and make the final offer...they are 60 miles away, so id prefer to do it over the phone/e mail

i think they will get there...i believe they have (2) of them left

the dealer i offered $9,500 off for the 2010 did not reply.....i found out there's a major difference between 2010 and 2011...4 speed transmission vs 6 speed...it comes to 1-2 mpg....for a vehicle that gets 11 mpg city 1 or 2 extra mpg is MAJOR....im not even considering the 2010 anymore...let it sit and rot for another year

28,500 divided by 7 years = $4,071 a year......its really nothing when gross sales are $400,000-$500,000 range.....right now im sinking $2000+ a year just in repairs..........ill probably save $1000+ just in mpg savings...my van has a 5.7 liter and its a dog...the new one has a 6.0 and its 75-100 more HP....i wont be beating the engine going up every hill....its possible to get 3-5 more MPG

anyone know if i need to take my company logo off my old van before i sell it???? i never see them for sale with it on, but id rather let the buyer take care of it...yea ill probably take a few letters of the company name off and the phone # in case they drive like a-holes...getting it all off in the winter may be a big issue...if i have someone do it i assume it will be $500 +....im planning on asking $3,000 for my old van

nealrm
01-12-2012, 09:26 PM
Whenever I've done the "new versus used" analysis in the past, I've always found that the supposed savings of having someone else suffer the rapid depreciation in the early years are largely offset by the increased expenses and headaches in the later years.

If you could get a very low mileage (say, 20,000 miles) two-year-old van for $19K, then the math could change, but if you are paying two-thirds of the cost of a new van for two-thirds of the life, plus you are the one who has to drive the van from years 3 to 6, picking up the increased maintenance and repairs in those years without getting the advantage of the first two largely low-maintenance years, who is getting the best deal --the original owner, whose $11,000 ($30,000 minus $19,000) cost him $5,500 per year or you, whose $16,000 ($19,000 minus $3,000 resale value) over 4 years may only be $4,000 in depreciation but you have to pay for maintenance and repairs like complete brake jobs, shocks, struts and all the other things that need replaced to get a truck from 55,000 to 155,000 miles? Another consideration is that the cost of your "full vehicle wrap, upgrade the suspension, replace all 6 tires", if also required on the used truck, are spread over 4 years on a used truck rather than 6 on a new truck. Don't forget to add the value of your time to buy and upgrade a truck every 4 years rather than every 6.

If you can get a great deal on a used truck, I'd agree with Steve B and nealrm, but you need to be careful not to get sucked into the semi-automatic thinking that a used vehicle is a money-saver.

OK - let's due the maths: Assuming he gets it for $30,000 and sells after it has only 55,000 miles. That is $5,500 per year or $0.20 per mile + wear items (brakes, oil, tires). Buy a used one at $19,000 and selling it in year 6 at 155,000 miles will run you only $4000 per year or $0.16 per mile. That is 20% less per mile than buying new. Most car made today will hit over 100,000 without anything but oil, brakes and tires. On average major repairs don't start until after 150,000.

Now let look at a better view, he buys it at $19,000 and hold it until it's finished at 255,000. The selling price will still be $3000. We can also expect to put in a transmission at some point along the way for about $5000 and let's throw in some random repairs for another $2000. We are now at only $0.115 per mile + wear items (brakes, tires, oil). This method is 42.5% less per mile than new.

Business Attorney
01-13-2012, 02:23 AM
I agree any buyer needs to do the math. I'm not sure why you are assuming huggy would sell a new one after only 55,000 miles, nor do I understand your "better view" that he would expect to keep a used truck until he gets 255,000 miles on it. Both seem inconsistent with his statement that his current truck has 141,000 miles. Since it now requires $2,000 a year in repairs and doesn't fit the image he wants to convey to his customers, it seems that the "better view" in both cases would be to assume he gets rid of the truck at around 150,000 miles.

Besides image, and the extra hassle of dealing with the major issues a couple of years earlier, there are other things, like fuel efficiency, to consider. As huggy pointed out in the post right above yours, even the difference between the 2010 and the 2011 is 1-2 miles per gallon, which is a 10-20% savings on gas in a vehicle that gets 11 mpg. At the current prices of gas in the upper Midwest, that alone can offset most of the savings even using your assumptions.

I'm not saying my numbers are any more valid that yours, I'm just saying that the argument that buying a used vehicle in many cases does not really save money. Certainly using your assumptions, there seems to be a savings. I'm sure in many cases there are savings. However, when I've run numbers, more often than not I've found that the savings are either entirely illusory or so small that they don't compensate for the intangible benefit of having a newer vehicle. The point is, as you said, to do the math.

Of course, there is the other extreme as well. I buy old beaters for my kids, where the cost of ownership is way lower than new, with the added advantage that when they eventually bang them up, I don't care.

huggytree
01-13-2012, 10:23 PM
old van died today!!!...had to get it TOWED to a dealership.....could be a fuel pump (which was replaced 14 months ago)...if so its a free repair minus the towing....could be another $1,000 repair if its something else........plus i lost 3 hours of work today and a full day Monday....lost revenue=$1,300 + repair

ive had it....took me 4.5 hours to get towed and get home.....i was over an hour away from home and didnt know where to go or who to call....i had to call my wife 5x just to find a towing company and chevy dealership

i found out the 2011 i wanted has a low end box on it....i still may go with it if they give me 'the deal', but i am now considering buying brand new -2012 and having the box made to my spec's.....cost $32,500

i told the guy w/ the 2011 to lower the price monday or lose the sale...told him im moving on locally and looking at 2012's...(there are no more 2011's within 100 miles)

the 2010 leftover also called me today....left msg....i still may take his van if he accepts my offer...i will have to put $1,500 into it to bring it up to my weight standards, but i will have saved $11,000 off sticker

now i spend the weekend finding 2012's and going all out...

when it wouldnt start today i was ready to purchase on the spot...funny how an emergency makes you think F'it just spend the $$..........i may spend $1000-1500 to repair it just to sell it for $3,000 or less.....i am even considering giving it to charity for the deduction

billbenson
01-14-2012, 05:57 PM
Huggy, I had a thread about leasing a car for my wife a while back. My credit doesn't qualify for me to buy or her. She qualified for a lease. She drives through a lot of bad neighborhoods. I wanted her to have a nice car. Sometimes cost justification just doesn't fly.

If I buy a new computer, I don't try to cost justify it. I need it for work. Whether I got the best deal or not is insignificant.

huggytree
01-14-2012, 09:29 PM
having a clean physical appearance of myself is important to my business...i cut my hair down to a 1/2" every 3-4 weeks, im always clean shaven...i wear a tee shirt with my logo and name all over it.....my vehicle is the same....i work for alot of high end customers and im getting higher up there every year....they dont want some guy with a beater truck in their 2,000,000 houses driveway....i always make sure my van doesnt leak and looks good.....its still acceptable, but on the bottom end of acceptable....i wish i could find what i want for $19,000 (2 years old, 30,000 miles) , but it isnt there....i can easily justify $19k for that....looks like im going to spend $34,000 after taxes,etc...........when you break it down to averaging it over 7 years its $4,850 a year....thats penny's for a 500,000 a year business....considering i spend $10,000 on gas a year for it............i am expecting to save $1,000 a year on fuel and $2,000 a year on repairs (at least for 5 years)

its painful to spend so much for a van that will get all scratched up from tree's and jobsite abuse, but its something i need to get used to...ill be buying more and more of them in the future....and iiiiiiiif i ever i hire i will be spending it often

i am also planning on raising my prices by $3 per hour to help cover it...the union is w/o a contract now for 8 months and its time to give myself a raise...when the contract is finally approved i assume it will be a double raise for the 1st year.....this will make that future raise seem less dramatic when it happens....my steady customers wont like a $6-8 per hour raise....better to give (2) $3 per hour raises over 6 months....work is going so well right now that it wont effect anything.........on my large projects it will only amount to $150-200 on a $10,000 project...but it will help pay for the van.....i already have a $500 per month truck payment built into my price and w/ a 6 year loan thats probably where i will be.....its just a good time to add the $3 per hour regardless....

billbenson
01-15-2012, 01:11 PM
having a clean physical appearance of myself is important to my business...i cut my hair down to a 1/2" every 3-4 weeks, im always clean shaven...i wear a tee shirt with my logo and name all over it.....my vehicle is the same....i work for alot of high end customers and im getting higher up there every year....they dont want some guy with a beater truck in their 2,000,000 houses driveway....i always make sure my van doesnt leak and looks good.....its still acceptable, but on the bottom end of acceptable....i wish i could find what i want for $19,000 (2 years old, 30,000 miles) , but it isnt there....i can easily justify $19k for that....looks like im going to spend $34,000 after taxes,etc...........when you break it down to averaging it over 7 years its $4,850 a year....thats penny's for a 500,000 a year business....considering i spend $10,000 on gas a year for it............i am expecting to save $1,000 a year on fuel and $2,000 a year on repairs (at least for 5 years)

its painful to spend so much for a van that will get all scratched up from tree's and jobsite abuse, but its something i need to get used to...ill be buying more and more of them in the future....and iiiiiiiif i ever i hire i will be spending it often

i am also planning on raising my prices by $3 per hour to help cover it...the union is w/o a contract now for 8 months and its time to give myself a raise...when the contract is finally approved i assume it will be a double raise for the 1st year.....this will make that future raise seem less dramatic when it happens....my steady customers wont like a $6-8 per hour raise....better to give (2) $3 per hour raises over 6 months....work is going so well right now that it wont effect anything.........on my large projects it will only amount to $150-200 on a $10,000 project...but it will help pay for the van.....i already have a $500 per month truck payment built into my price and w/ a 6 year loan thats probably where i will be.....its just a good time to add the $3 per hour regardless....

I think that's smart Huggy. I however work in my underwear and don't have to shave :)

huggytree
01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
i used to grow a beard in the winter and i miss it....i worked on brand new unheated houses and it helped keep me warm...it was nice to just trim it once a week or so.

huggytree
01-17-2012, 08:01 AM
still havent made my choice.....im going in today for trade in value

2 options are

1. 2011 for $28,600.......has lower end cube
2. 2012 for $31,700...has higher end cube and attic space over cab

very hard to decide....$3,000 is alot of money, but your getting more.....as far as value they are almost dead even

the 2011 is sitting there waiting to be picked up and the 2012 may take 3-6 weeks to be produced.......

it may depend on trade in value....ive never had good luck trading in very old vehicles....they always want to give you 1/4th of what its worth....i will most likely be selling the van on my own.