Not sure about work preformed not under contract

[rcole]

Hi everyone I am a painting contractor. I just started a project for a rental management co. I have done lots of work for in the past .I gave an estimate in writing and was asked to update it before starting any work and did so. They gave me a small check to start the [project and I did so, after 3 weeks of prep work (wich is about 50 to 60 % of the job) I cant get them to finialize by chosing a color <had lots of reasons like Im sick and not quite shure yet and I need to go out of town for the weekend . and so on I have about 4 buildings ready for paint but I have a bad feeling. ....My question is ...Is my not signed contract binding in any way . numours conversations about the job led me to belive that they had every intenion of compleating this .I have paid out labor and materials that exceed the 1st draw amount and now they wont answer the phone calls or emails . running out of nice weathwe and we schudle this for a 3 month job so I have not picked up any work for this time frame ... what to do>>??????
Any help in this matter would helpful
Thanks
Rob
Sunrise painting

[vangogh]

Welcome to the forum Rob. Sorry to hear about the problems your having on this job.

I'm not an attorney so please know everything I'm about to say is just guesswork. Not having the contract signed probably isn't something in your favor, though I would think that they paid you something to start the job shows they intended for you to do the work so that might work in your favor. I would document as best as you can every thing you have in writing from them to show their intent to hire you. I'd also try to write down every conversation that you can remember. Still you'll really need to consult an attorney if things are going to take the path.

Ideally you can work something out with the rental company. It sounds like their avoiding you and not picking a color is an excuse. We're in different business, but similar things have happened to me. I now ask for 50% upfront before starting any work so it doesn't happen again.

I don't blame you for your bad feeling. I have a feeling what you suspect is happening is indeed happening. You might try contacting them again, even if that means going into the rental company to ask again for a color. If they don't give you one you can let them know that there's nothing you can do until they choose a color and to ask them to contact you when they've made a choice. Then hand them a bill for the work completed so far, which would be the prep work. My guess is they won't pay, but it'll make it harder for them to avoid the conversation.

It's possible though there's not much you can do unless they cooperate or you're willing to go the legal route. In the case of the latter I don't know where you stand and you should definitely contact an attorney.

[rcole]

Thanks for the reply . The manager was coming out the office when I was going in yesterday , said I gotta run I will call you in a bit , then never did... Im getting the run around here. I have keys to units that im keeping my suplys and tools in just not shure what to think on this one... wello gonna put a bill together and start looking for a job as this is going to put me out of busness for the rest of the year ...I told them I have passed up lots of other work to hold a 3 month time slot for this project. UGGHH

[Jeff L]

Rob:
I am not a lawyer either but have dealt with enough contracts over the years to understand your situation. 1st - They asked you for an "Updated Estimate" which you provided. 2nd - They gave you a small deposit to begin work.

I think you will find that any Judge in the world would take this scenario as a contract. The Manager accepted your bid/contact when he gave you that check.
Hope this helps,
Jeff

[vangogh]

That's how it came across to me too Jeff. Hard to know how a judge will look at it, but it seems like there was intent to hire on the part of the rental company. I would think that would be good for Rob, but you never know.

[rcole]

Thanks guys for the in put . In have been home all day calling and sending emails and have gotten no response from them not even an answre so tomorrow I will go to their off ice and just wait I knoe they are there because the rent gets paid from these propertys at the office they have over 140 and I have done maintance and painting in most of them . My thought is they spent the money that the owner of this complex sent in aug

[rcole]

OK now I got an email back and the lady says she is unhappy with the work that has been done so far. and that I need to cone into the office so tommorrow we will see... the work I have done up to now is just scraping and priming with some wood replacement . seh never said what to do I just do what I think needs it...

[vangogh]

At least it seems like you'll find out what's going on. Maybe it'll be something easily correctable and you can get back to work.

[rcole]

I stand behind my work for 3 years most just 1 so I don't know what she may be unhappy with not being a painter .... Maybe the amount of progress after the no comunication I got unshure about moving on till I heard from them ... just sayin

[vangogh]

That would be odd though since the lack of progress was a result of them not returning your calls. It sounds like they dissatisfaction came first. Guess you'll find out when you meet with them. Hopefully it all goes well and you can share the story about everything now being on track again.

[rcole]

Well got to the office and ... well she was unhappy it wasnt about thw work she said.. she said that I do good work so that was not the prob... Now she said that some of her tenents said they overheard me and my help complaining about her failure to comply and that my help was on the phone telling somebody about the frustration we both have exspressed . and thats the nice way to put it ... I talked to my guy and he admitted that he was kind of abrasive . also swearing some as he worked on and around the windows.. This I dont do and dont alow..(people can hear everything you say through the window.) I had to let my guy of 5 yeard go but he has not been paid in full and Im taped out.../any way She the manager still has not been to the job yet and was suprised to know that I have done anything she was told (by a little mouse or maybe the guy in building 3 that is a painter and wants the job for himself.) that nothing has been done. well I got 37 hrs. in doing nothing... guess I have to wait till monday to know if I am going to be allowed to proceed. still sounds fishey but atleast we know now .. sorry for the rant and thanks for listening. I will check back to answer any questions I like this fourm it has been helpful...
Rob
The Painter
of 38 years

[vangogh]

Sorry about how things went. I can understand her not being happy about the language and the complaining, though it would have been nice for her to return your calls and let you know right away. Seems like the kind of thing that can be worked out, but I guess you'll find out Monday. At least you now know what happened. Even if it wasn't the resolution you were hoping for, it's better to know than not know.

[rcole]

Going around on this with the apparment manager . I got 26 hrs. in this job for myself and my help also got over 400 in materials lots of other materials used that I had in stock used . I got a 600 dollar advance now she wants me to give back most of the money said the work was unsatisfactory . I dont want to but sounds lkie time for a lein

[vangogh]

Wow. I guess the conversation the other day didn't help. Why exactly is she saying the work is unsatisfactory. At first she was saying the work wasn't an issue, but it was the language being used by those working. Now it's the work. It's sounding like she just doesn't want to pay and is looking for an excuse to get out of paying.

Maybe it's time to give her an invoice for all your expenses. You mentioned you spent more in labor and materials than what was covered by the deposit so send her an invoice for the labor and materials. You may end up just wanting to cut your losses on this as it may lead to more stress than it's worth. I'd also make sure in the future to have the contract signed and explain how the deposit is nonrefundable or at least the portion you use to purchase materials and labor is nonrefundable.

[rcole]

OK lets put this thing to bed... I went in the office today gave them a bill for work up to date . they are not going to pay me squat . found they have been going to local paint stores checking my account to see if I had bought any materials . told me they think I have used sub standard product on their building and ...even though I showed the receipts ..... well thats the excuse for today .. I pack it in and give up on these people... UGHHHH if I was younger I would be more angry than that I am ... so now all I can do is let all the painters in town know so no body makes the mistake of working for these loosers like I did...

[vangogh]

They sure are going to a lot of trouble not to pay you. Crazy. I think you're right that putting it behind you is the best thing to do. I understand the anger and wanting to be compensated, but it's probably not worth the effort or stress. Letting the other painters in town is likely enough.

Hopefully this is happening because it frees you for an even better job that's coming. :)

[Jeff L]

Rob:
Just reread this mess you're going through here and I feel the answer is in what you first wrote where you stated you had done work for these people before. I guess you never had this problem before. My guess is that they have now discovered they are financial trouble and giving a line of you know what is their way of not paying you. Send them a final bill for the money they currently owe and include in a note that if it is not paid within 10 days of receipt you will be forced to file a lien. This only will cost you a postage stamp and maybe get you your money.
Jeff L

[billbenson]

I usually drop stuff like this because in the end the time spent isn't worth it. In this case it would upset me enough to peruse legal action or at least do what Jeff said. Make them think you will take legal action. Its pretty close to a frontal attack on you. I'd spend the money on this for a letter from an attorney. And like I said, that's not my style.

[rcole]

Get this ,got a call later today they wanted me to do a few work orders (I was also their part time maintenace man ) for them after all that i DID NOT RETURN THE CALL . done PEACE OUT

[vangogh]

You should have agreed and asked for full payment up front. :)

So let's see your work is so unsatisfactory that they won't pay you, but they'll gladly call you for more work.