this isnt working....

[greenoak]

one company is marketing to me at least once a week and im sick of it....i bought about 800$ from them at a tradeshow...and have their basic catalog...
they have specials all the time.... i get weekly mail...i also get email specials a lot....their sales are on the good merchandise...
so when i need something from them i never know what the price is...andi hate the idea that i would buy something today and it would be part of next weeks specials....
i really need something from them so i gave in and actually called and got assured that we would get the best price...but wewere looking at an old sale flyer, she said that kind of like we were stupid.... i probably have 20 of their sale flyers around......so what i hoped was on sale wasnt....i just cancelled....and 2 days later everything was 15% off in the new flyer or email...i forget which....
they are off my list...too much trouble.... and i want the best price all the time...and i want to know the price and not play games.... im too busy to mess with this type of marketing... ......

[Remipub]

I gave this a name several years ago ... I call it the "Smith's Syndrome." I call it this because there was a furniture store in my area called Smith's that had a HUGE SALE every single weekend. The TV, radio, print ads and flyers made it out to be the biggest and best sale event ever - but each and every week. Their advertising budget must have been astronomical, but in time it got to the point where no-one took their "sales" seriously. The value behind having a sale was lost since you knew (if not subconsciously) that there was nothing special about it. I speak of them in past tense because they eventually went bankrupt after many years in business. I think in part because people got tired of dealing with it and just stopped shopping there.

[vangogh]

Sometimes people think if you attach the word sale to something it automatically leads to more sales. But if the sales price is the same every day it's not really a sale is it? We all get tired of hearing about the next sale, because we know it's not real.

Another thing I don't get is when you see sales for 5% off. That's not exactly saving a lot on most items. Is it really supposed to entice me to come in now?

[KristineS]

I think a lot of people are doing things like this right now. I see a lot of "in these desperate economic times we're dropping our prices to help you, our customers" sort of marketing. I really hate those type of ads because the businesses aren't trying to help the customer, they're trying to boost their own sagging sales by enticing the customer into their shop.

[orion_joel]

This type of marketing is in some respect intriguing. Remipub, the concept you mention is used by a furniture chain that operates near me, they have quiet a number of stores, have a sale almost every weekend, and are making massive profits, even though they would be spending huge money on their advertising.

[Steve B]

I find this kind of stuff irritating as well. But, that doesn't mean it won't work. How many times can an oriental carpet company have a "going out of business" sale!

I have a competitor that has a $100 off coupon attached to every ad he ever puts out. Of course, on the coupon it is very clear that you must mention the coupon at the time you recieve a quote from them - gee, I wonder why that is.

I'm thinking about adding a coupon to my stuff and telling them NOT to mention it until after they've recieved my quote in writing.

[orion_joel]

Besides the obvious incantation of mentioning that coupon prior to the quote, there is also the potential for them to be tracking their marketing return.

The other one though about the oriental carpet stores is you would think by now they would have worked out how to order the right amount of stock and wouldn't have to clear it all at massive discounts to make room for the 50 container's they ordered which they have no where to put.

[Steve B]

"there is also the potential for them to be tracking their marketing return." Yes, but they can track it just as easily if you mention the coupon after they give you the quote.

[Remipub]

This type of marketing is in some respect intriguing. Remipub, the concept you mention is used by a furniture chain that operates near me, they have quiet a number of stores, have a sale almost every weekend, and are making massive profits, even though they would be spending huge money on their advertising.

I wonder if they are in fact making massive profits, or living on credit. I do think the concept can work initially, but eventually it's bound to come to a head. People are always going to be enticed by "huge savings" but at the same time they are not stupid. If the concept is working for them now, I'd be willing to bet it's a matter of time before people stop responding. If you can sell it for less, why not advertise that in the first place and build a reputation as a low price leader, rather than spend a mint advertising bogus sales?

The Oriental Rug store thing reminds me - in the movie "Don't Mess With The Zohan" (which was stupid by the way), a character runs an electronics store with going out of business signs plastered all over the place. When asked about it he says it's just marketing - they've been "going out of business" for years! I think some companies really do use going out of business sales as a marketing gimmick.

Another industry that is infamous for this is jewelry stores. Seems like there are perpetual 50% - 70% off sales in the retail jewelry biz.

[Aaron Hats]

This is why we have very few sales. We made a decision early on that we wouldn't have "sale events" and 99.9% of our items are priced in even dollar amounts. It's not $19.99, it's $20. If the government ever stopped making pennies most retailers wouldn't know how to price their merchandise.

Off topic, but did you know it costs more than a penny to make a penny.

Aaron

[orion_joel]

Remipub, i think the ironic truth of the situation with the going out of business marketing is the fact that for some businesses they are in that perpetual do we make enough to cover the costs this month or not. So in some respect they are truly marketing the month to month state of their business even if they have been going out of business for years. However this is not the sort of business that i would like.

Aaron, i know New Zealand for one has revised the size of their coins to counter the cost of the coin being more then the face value, which included no longer using a 5cent piece, so the smallest value coin in New Zealand is 10cents i believe. Same thing is happening in Australia, however no specific decision has been made.

Also i agree about the the flat pricing it is something that i try to do, depending on the client. For retail i try to always use a rounded out amount like $20. Where as when i am selling wholesale or in quantity, i will take my cost multiple by the margin i want and even if that ends up being $19.61 that is what i quote. Primarily to try and give the impression i am scraping what i can out of it to give them the best price. Which often is the case but having an odd number for the most part has stopped them questioning the price.

[Ad-Vice_Man]

I did know that about the Penny. But the Legislators From Illinois won't let the Penny Die.

FYI for what it's worth this wasn't a political dig relating to the current presidential election.

[Remipub]

I know it seems silly, but there really is a proven science behind pricing things with $.99. Sure, when we think about it, we know that $9.99 is virturally $10. In fact if we buy something at $9.99 and someone asks how much we paid, we'd probably say $10. But the subconscious is a powerful thing - and seeing $9.99 subconsciously appears to be a better deal than $10. Same theory with whole numbers to a point .... $99 sounds better than $100.

It's the same principle, but it always seemed odd to me how they price gas - $2.699 per gallon? They all do it, so I'm sure there's a good reason.

[vangogh]

The psychology of pricing (http://www.small-business-forum.net/managing-your-business/234-psychology-pricing.html) (<- link is to a thread I started awhile back on the subject) is something that's always fascinated me. I agree that we all know that $9.99 is $10, but at the same time we all somehow perceive it as being less. We read the first number and see $9 as opposed to $10.

What's sometimes even more interesting is how some might perceive a 7 as luck and so $9.97 works better than $9.99 or the idea that selling something for $1 gets better results than giving it away for free.

[Spider]

You guys are funny :D

You make like you believe advertising is about telling the truth.

When did that ever happen?

[Ad-Vice_Man]

Truth is best left to philosophers. Opinion and Fact rule business.

[orion_joel]

When pricing fuel in Australia they ignore the dollar sign all together. They price is as like 137.9 cents per liter. Maybe they think that people don't realize this is infact $1.379 but, that how they have always done it here. There was a short time maybe 12-18months that many petrol stations were making it like 137.7 or 139.1, probably trying to bring the perceived price down by having a lower number on the end. However they all seem to be sticking to the .9 now.

[Paul Elliott]

i really need something from them so i gave in and actually called and got assured that we would get the best price...but wewere looking at an old sale flyer, she said that kind of like we were stupid.... i probably have 20 of their sale flyers around......so what i hoped was on sale wasnt....i just cancelled....and 2 days later everything was 15% off in the new flyer or email...i forget which....
they are off my list...too much trouble.... and i want the best price all the time...and i want to know the price and not play games.... im too busy to mess with this type of marketing... ......

Ann, this is a poor form of the old bait-and-switch. Usually these ads have no date or in the fine print you realize they are actually out of date when you receive them or a day or so later.

When you get a ad with something you want, put the date on it and call within 2 weeks. You simply state, "If you can let me have it at this price, we've got a deal. If not, we don't." If they say anything other than, "Done," move on and never listen to another sentence on that call.

You may be surprised to learn that they can "extend" the sale price. ;)

Paul

[Paul Elliott]

I gave this a name several years ago ... I call it the "Smith's Syndrome." I call it this because there was a furniture store in my area called Smith's that had a HUGE SALE every single weekend. The TV, radio, print ads and flyers made it out to be the biggest and best sale event ever - but each and every week.

Sears started this over 1/2 a century ago with their heavy appliances (and some other things, too) because of the way people purchase them.

For example, if a washing machine goes out, a person checks the paper and "find" there was a great sale on washing machines Thursday through Sunday. Such luck--just when he or she needed it!

Of course, that same sale was every weekend for 3-4 days. However, if you didn't need a washing machine, you never realized it was on sale every week.

Before most states outlawed it, Sears would actually mark things up just so they could mark them down for sales. Of course, this is similar to the weekend sale pricing, but if they kept the "usual" price the same every Mon-Wed/Thurs, they were within the letter of the law.

Paul

[orion_joel]

I think that pricing is the biggest farce most retailers really do push the envelope on being within the law. There have i believe been at least two cases in recent years in Australia where retailers have been fine large amounts for not maintaining the expected standards of pricing.

Yet even still there are so many retail stores you visit and the lack of pricing in some areas is just dreadful.

[billbenson]

Don't necessarily blame the person you talk to. The sales person may not know what sales are on for the product and almost certainly doesn't know whats going to happen tomorrow. Industry dependent of course.

[greenoak]

thats for sure......maybe they could be sympathetic tho....my worker was nice in return,
..end of me with them;;;.i just got a new sale flyer with the product i wanted at the sale price for my big openhouse ....its on sale again, 2 weeks later, but too late.....wouldnt i feel dumb if i had bought it last week for the high price?.....to me their prices are a joke...i cant deal with it...
ann

[Watchdog]

There are mistakes being made in too many or frequent sales - and are you really selling more?

We have a local subshop that has been offering coupons in the area forever - the downfall to this is that we don't usually go until we have a coupon. It's usually by one whole sub and get one free or by a 1/2 sub and get a second 1/2 at 50% off.

[greenoak]

thats what i feel too....and i stay away from a lot of common marketing ideas involving discounts...or specials or coupons......also not sure if they even work here, since lots of people come only when they can manage the timeit takes......i go for a good deal everytime...thats whati want to project...if possible... .
.i hate hearing , whens your next sale.....or why isnt this on sale...its kind of not what im after...
ann

[Spider]

thats for sure......maybe they could be sympathetic tho....my worker was nice in return,
..end of me with them;;;.i just got a new sale flyer with the product i wanted at the sale price for my big openhouse ....its on sale again, 2 weeks later, but too late.....wouldnt i feel dumb if i had bought it last week for the high price?.....to me their prices are a joke...i cant deal with it...
annAnn, Here's a thought for you. Now that you know their prices are flexible, and presuming you are happy with the quality of the product they sell, this is an invitation to bargain for every purchase, regardless of whether things are on sale or not.

If you want to learn the art of negotiation, there's no-one better at it than Roger Dawson. He has a number of books out on the subject. Get good at negotiating and you will not only get better prices on everything, you'll build your business like you wouldn't believe.

And, once you are good at it, it's a whole lot of fun.

[Paul Elliott]

Ann, Here's a thought for you. Now that you know their prices are flexible, and presuming you are happy with the quality of the product they sell, this is an invitation to bargain for every purchase, regardless of whether things are on sale or not.

If you want to learn the art of negotiation, there's no-one better at it than Roger Dawson. He has a number of books out on the subject. Get good at negotiating and you will not only get better prices on everything, you'll build your business like you wouldn't believe.

And, once you are good at it, it's a whole lot of fun.

Ann, Spider has a good suggestion. If you or anyone in your organization is interested in bargaining, here is an excellent opportunity.

OTOH, if you don't want the hassel go to other vendors and set this bunch free.

Paul

[greenoak]

hey guys...im an antique dealer...i have learned negotiation and bargaining from the experts....
on the other hand i like my customers to take my word and not try to beat me down ....some never learn tho!!!lol
.when i buy i like to know im getting the best deals possible and just go with that....and have some trust and stability.....i cant bear to pay retail...
ann

[Paul Elliott]

i cant bear to pay retail...

I LOVE it!

Keep up your excellent work, Ann!

Paul

[Watchdog]

I've seen many links to books here, but if I can suggest a great read on Marketing..it would be Jump Start Your Marketing Brain by Doug Hall.

Lot's of "wows" and ideas. It's not your typical "read cover to cover book" it's far from boring and will leave you a little bit smarter :)