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greenoak
10-23-2008, 09:47 PM
a site like this understands the art of my business.. Vintage Journal OOAK Web Design/Template (http://www.avalon-rose-design.com/item_409/Vintage-Journal-OOAK-Web-DesignTemplate.htm) they could make a site that looked like i want it to look..shes very popular.....she made one of my favorite sites.... Katies Rose Cottage Vintage Romantic Cottage Chic (http://www.katiesrosecottage.com) which i think is a good active site....

so my question is what wouldnt i be geting with a service like this....what are they really offering and how would it be different from what say van gogh offers? also how much skill would it take to keep it going?
i am not considering changing my site but rather a new site aimed at web selling and wholesale ...
i know you cant judge a book by its cover... any ideas appreciated....ann

Patrysha
10-24-2008, 01:51 AM
I'm not sure that I would go with a system that needs a proprietary type hosting, but then I like having choices.

For my non-techy clients who want to spend minimal time learning and maximum time having the tools work for them, I tend to suggest a wordpress site template - with or without maintenance as they desire (if they don't go with maintenance I have a training/follow up program that they can go for instead which is much less expensive but takes more effort on their part)

Of course, most of my clients in that area these days tend to be offline clients (small stores, industrial) - the ones who come to me for publicity typically already have a good website and marketing system in place for it.

vangogh
10-24-2008, 03:22 AM
I agree with Patrysha about the hosting. I'd prefer to have more choice in where I'd host the site. You actually can host the site anywhere, but other than the four listed Avalon Rose Design won't install the site for you and some of the administrative features may not work. On the site they say those features will only work on the listed hosts, but something tells me they will work on others. There's just no guarantee.

I also agree with Patrysha about WordPress. If the selling point to you is the idea that you can add and edit pages on the site without knowing html I'd just as soon go with WordPress since it doesn't lock you into specific hosting.

One other thing I noticed is in the discussion of search engines I don't get the impression that Avalon Rose knows all that much about search engine optimization. I don't want to imply they don't know anything about it, but I see a few things that indicated their knowledge is limited. I don't think their designs are poorly coded to the degree where it would affect search traffic and search traffic may not be an important part of your marketing in the first place.

Overall I really don't see any reason why you shouldn't purchase a design from them. If you like the design and the cost is within your budget you should consider them. I would make sure you get all the graphics and files delivered to you in addition to having it installed. That does give you more flexibility. Someone like me could always use their graphics later to recode the site to work on more hosts if necessary.

It's hard to really know what the added benefit of the service is, but I suspect it's nothing you can't get in other places. Without seeing it I couldn't say for certain, but I would guess it's a simple content management system and odds are something like WordPress can do the same and more.

As for what you would get different from Anna Rose Designs and me there isn't really a better or worse. More just different. For example I think Anna Rose creates nicer graphics than I can at the moment, but I'd say the behind he scenes code I would use to develop the site would be better than theirs. Their site might look nicer on the outside, but mine would probably function better on the inside. That's not to say their site won't function well and mine won't look good. I just think our strengths are a little different.

I also can't say with certainty, but I probably have more of a handle on marketing in general and I'm rather confident I understand search better and could build a site more friendly to search engines.

But again all of the above is more about preference. I only took a quick look at their site and some of the designs, but they seem more than qualified. The limited choice of hosting could be a concern if those hosts turn out not to be so great.

greenoak
10-24-2008, 08:07 AM
thanks....i dont want to buy a pretty face with no brain......
im not too worried about the hosting..thinking dh could figure that out....he and my dil did our whole greenoak site from scratch...
i want to be able to insert new pictures into the categories as the old item sells...and not really ever change the format or parts of the site....i wouldnt want to revamp the main form.... .
i would look at this as a sister site and linked to the greenoak site and my blog.... ,basically it would be an internet selling site ...i know actual people who use this very framework to sell thats why i want it.... ....and i really dont want to try and change my greenoak site , since i think its bringing me lots of inhouse customers...
why couldnt you make one that pretty?
i didnt see how one of their $200 designs could be that good, and work that well........
my budget would be about 1000 to 2000...

vangogh
10-24-2008, 12:24 PM
Ann I don't want to imply that you'd be getting no brain with their design. It might not be a mensa brain, but it would still be an above average brain.

The issue with the hosting is mostly that you have to use one of 4 specific hosts in order to gain all the benefits of what the design is offering. I suspect you could still get the benefits from other web hosts, but there's no guarantee. My guess is the hosts recommended are recommended because Anna Rose Design has an affiliate relationship with those hosts. At least one link I saw was an affiliate link to a host. There's nothing wrong with that, I have affiliate relationships with web hosts too. The point is that it's likely that's the reason for recommending the hosts as much as anything and I'd guess their system would work on other hosts as well. There's just no way of knowing without purchasing a design first so it's always possible using another host limits some of the functionality of the designs. I don't think it would be an issue, but it's possible.

If I'm hearing you right your main goal for this site would be to function as a shopping cart. You'll have categories and products listed and once everything has been set up you'll mostly just be replacing the image of a product that sells with another image. You can do that with a lot of content management systems including WordPress. For WordPress you'd need a shopping cart plugin and there are a few available, both free and paid. I don't think the paid ones cost too much, maybe a couple hundred at most.

If you do like their designs you could always purchase one. The price for their designs isn't a lot. As long as you have them send you all the images used and ideally the Photshop files (I'm assuming they used Photoshop to create the design) then any developer like myself could take the design images and develop code to display the same design on a variety of content management systems.

For example I could probably take the design images and develop a WordPress theme to match the design, have WordPress set up with a shopping cart and you'd still have a little money left over from your budget.

Of course that's going to cost you more than the initial $200 for the design so the question is whether or not having the site redeveloped to work on WordPress and be more search friendly, etc is worth the extra cost. It's possible that the current system will really do everything you need without having to redevelop the code. You'd have an above average brain, if not a mensa brain, but a lot fo very successful people aren't mensas.

Also know that someone like me could most likely improve the code of the site even if you do go with one of the 4 hosts and use the existing system as is. If you really do like one of the designs, $200 isn't a huge investment and if it turns out their are issues with where you can host the site or the system doesn't quite meet your needs you could always spend more of what you have budgeted to fix those things later.

chichome
10-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Hello Ann, I think the cutesy, vintage style sites bring limited traffic and you should use a design that has a broader appeal. It is easy getting swept up in all the pretty graphics but not really necessary to have a successful online site. I also think from my perspective that it is much better to have total control of your site and hosting and with your budget you could actually have hubby and son do an excellent site with a website design program and have enough to purchase your own shopping cart program and hire someone to do your internet marketing. I jumped over from mmp and of course if I said that over there I would be tar and feathered. If you want more info about how I did it you can email me.

vangogh
10-24-2008, 04:09 PM
Welcome to the forum Sandra. That's a good point about getting caught up in the pretty graphics. They don't automatically lead to success. Though I would say your design does have an impact in how you're site and hence your company is viewed. You don't need the most beautiful site, but you do want to meet a certain minimum in aesthetics.

I actually think the vintage styles would work for Ann's (an your) site given the nature of the business. It fits with an antique business. It's not the only design look for your sites, though it does fit here.

But I completely agree with your point that it's not all about the graphics. There's definitely more to having a successful site.

greenoak
10-24-2008, 07:20 PM
i really want the right graphics...and i definitely dont want to do this in house....i want a professional to do it...and i want a proven framework...which imho katies rose cottage is...we did our site ourselves....i dont want to do that again...
..what i really want is her layout and a similar look....... done by vangogh...or someone that good......
.sandra....LOL on the tar......you are probably right on the design.....it might be too foo foo....i was considering the beachy classic look not the totally foo foo look..but i sure dont want the typical manly corporate look ,like here....

at my level of understanding tho i could very well buy a look that didnt have the right brain behind it....thus my hope for vangoghs and others opinion on these ready made sites....
i guess vg...is telling me that the ready made sites arrent that bad...i was afraid it was all looks and not good inside...
ann

Katies Rose Cottage
10-24-2008, 07:59 PM
Ann ~ I think you have such a huge following already that you would do awesome with a website that looked like the image that you want to portray ( beachy classic ) and do great with a website from Avalon Rose ~ It is very easy to add products, prices, regulate inventory, switch things around ~ IMHO it is best to have a website that is easy to navigate so that customers can see things quickly and get to the point quickly without alot of searching all over your website ~
Whether or not you have success with it is all about marketing yourself in so many different ways ~ don't stick to one thing ~ obviously you won't just have a website since you have a huge shop, a huge following and another website as well as a blog ~
It is just another awesome avenue to reach people that cannot come to your store ~ for example, people like me who would love to buy from you but cannot because it is too far of a drive from Texas ~ You also can reach international customers that would not be visiting your B&M ~
I give you nothing put positive comments about going for it ~ I was with 2 other web designers and hosts before I had my current site and was never happy with them, their service or my capabilities for working with my site by myself ~ this site is easy to work with and very easy to have it do what I want it to do ~
Of course, it works for me but that doesn't mean it will work for everybody ~
Good luck !!
Lori
www.katiesrosecottage.com

KristineS
10-24-2008, 08:08 PM
Wow, it's great to see new people joining us and with such good advice. Welcome Sandra and Lori. I hope you stick around.

vangogh
10-24-2008, 08:16 PM
Welcome to the forum Lori. Since you're using one of the designs am I right that the extras are an admin section of the site that lets you update and add pages, etc without having to touch the code?

That's what it sounded like from the site, but it was hard to know for certain without seeing a demo.

Also do you know why it has to be those specific web hosts? I'm guessing it's based on the requirements of the content management system. I'm thinking the CMS requires a specific database and programming language to be installed on the host and the four hosts mentioned all have both installed. But I'd also assume there are plenty of other web hosts that would offer the same database and programming language.

Katies Rose Cottage
10-24-2008, 08:28 PM
Yes, alot of the extras are in the admin section and you do not have to touch the code at all ~
As far as that particular host, that is what the designer loaded the site on to ~ We didn't have a choice ~ for me that worked because I do not have the time or the knowledge to have to figure it all out ~ I needed a basically simple and easy to follow site that does allow me to do some things that I may want to change or play around with ~ my other hosts allowed me to do nothing on my own except add products ~
I do not know if this host gives you advanced capabilities but it does allow quite a bit ~ I can switch around all of the pages, change headers, products, coupons, wholesale information, wording, key words, etc ~ I am not sure but I gather it would do everything that Ann would want in a site ~
It seems like you know so much about SEO (obviously) which would be an awesome help ~ if you can get the look she wants that would be great !
Lori
Katies Rose Cottage Vintage Romantic Cottage Chic (http://www.katiesrosecottage.com)

greenoak
10-24-2008, 08:32 PM
hi katie...i sure didnt expect to see you here!!! this site is great and lots of good different info....i hope i didnt say anything wrong....i do love your site and feel like you have chosen a wonderful design.....
i really dont want to try and figure it all out myself...and i really appreciate the info you shared a while back....
i do hear from people all over...and am considering a new venture...
i hope you come here and jump in the conversations.... its differrent and interesting...ive gotten lots of help and insight here over the last couple of years........they dont get foo foo tho!!!! ......
welcome
ann

Katies Rose Cottage
10-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Ann ~ I took your comments as compliments !!
Like I said you can't go wrong right now with a website to just add to your business ~ I think with all the things that you have to manage it would be best to get one that you don't have to fiddle around with alot ~
Like I said before though, it would be great to have VanGogh's knowledge working with you ~
Lori
Katies Rose Cottage Vintage Romantic Cottage Chic (http://www.katiesrosecottage.com)

vangogh
10-24-2008, 09:08 PM
Thanks for the info Lori. It sounds like the they use a content management system. I won't at all knock the Avalon Rose site or their designs. I thought they looked nice and like I said somewhere above I think the did a pretty good job with their code. Also the price seems reasonable to me.

There are definitely other ways to get all of the same things. There are a variety of content management systems freely available. WordPress is one I recommend a lot, because it's free, easy to use, and has an active developer community extending the basic functionality of the system. That doesn't automatically make it a better choice, just another choice.

I'm not crazy about the idea of limiting the choice in web hosts, but I took a quick look at all 4 listed and they all seem to offer competitive packages. I don't see anything they're lacking on the surface. I also expect that the designs will work on many more hosts that just aren't recommended.

Again I'm still with my original assessment. What Avalon Rose is offering generally looks good. I obviously can't know for certain without actually seeing one installed and having access to it, but from what I see on the outside I think they're offering something of value. If you like the designs I see no reason to stay away from choosing one. I would ask for the files used to create the design, just in case.

The worst case scenario is you'd have a look you like at a very reasonable cost, which you could take at any time to someone else to develop a new site. My hunch is you wouldn't need to have someone else develop a new site from that look and you'll be happy with the site they deliver.

greenoak
11-06-2008, 08:28 AM
thats reassuring , vg....are you saying that the graphics are probably what makes the price difference? i can hardly believe that a 100$ site would be what i think it is in quality... the graphics i liked were actually the simple 100$ one.... can i assume that the guts are equal in the 100 template and the 300 template?
gosh vg, you ignored the question of , can you make one that pretty?
sorry im still on this subject....i have hired a new person who could possibly run this for me...after its up...im not jumping into it..
my big event is tomorrow...and im swamped and here with my morning coffee, avoiding everything...

vangogh
11-06-2008, 11:47 AM
I'm not sure what it is that makes the price difference. In general the designs seem less expensive than custom, but that's because they're resold. Why one might be $100 and another might be $300, I'm not really sure. The code behind the designs should be equal in quality.

As for me being able to make one that pretty I'll have to let other people decide.

KristineS
11-06-2008, 12:31 PM
As for me being able to make one that pretty I'll have to let other people decide.

Well, you're a guy, so making things "pretty" is probably not a skillset you often access. (Yes, that was totally sexist and absolutely for effect). :D

I'm guessing you could do it.

vangogh
11-06-2008, 08:30 PM
Yeah, maybe I'd use a word other than "pretty" when talking about my design skills (sexist or not).

Thanks for the vote of confidence though.