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greenoak
07-05-2011, 09:40 AM
i have pretty much deserted my blog.... so much more response from facebook and i had to face the truth that most of my blog followers were from far away and not likely to come to the store......i feel sure that in relation to customers in the store it makes sense....
now this morning i read that the blog might really build up my google rankings..... like if the blog and website both covered the sAME WORDS.....
is that how you see it?
i just checked my google...and it hasnt slipped...i really dont have my interest in the blog now...there are hardly any readers and i have lost most of the ones i had probably...i hate to do it for ulterior motives, like google rankings......it was a labor of love....now its just sitting there ....im so busy i dont really have time to do it....
if my google is still good should i just keep ignoring the blog?

vangogh
07-05-2011, 10:46 AM
Yes your blog can help pages on your site rank better. I've been telling you the same for years now. However your blog should ideally be on the same domain as your site. When your blog is on another domain like yours currently is you have to promote both sites. When the blog is on the same domain the content on it creates new opportunities to rank. Blogs are typically informational content as opposed to sales copy, which helps attract links to the page. As some pages of your site rank (the blog pages) they start to pull up some of the others pages on the site (sales copy).

I know you disagree, but I think your blog can do much more for you than your Facebook page can. It's not necessarily easy to make your blog work, but if you put in the effort the rewards are greater than Facebook. Again though your blog would be better if it were on the same domain as the rest of your site as opposed to being on Blogger and if you don't have the time for it then it's not going to do much. To make it work it really needs to be updated.

Spider
07-05-2011, 11:43 AM
I don't understand how the location of a blog makes any difference - could you explain.

1. I understand you to say that a blog on URL1 and a site on URL2 results in being less effective than a blog and a site on URL2. Is that correct? In what way "more effective?"

2. How does a blog become a blog, other than just calling it "My blog?" IOW, How is a blog page different from any other page on the site, if they are on the same domain? Suppose I add XYZ content to "My blog" at URL2/blog - how would that be different from a page with the same XYZ content at URL2/page?

vangogh
07-05-2011, 12:21 PM
While search engines rank pages, they're sophisticated enough to look at entire sites. What happens on one page of a site can and does affect the other pages. One reason blogs can be effective for seo is blogs are typically going to be informational content. A good blog isn't publishing sales copy. Sales copy doesn't attract links. Informational content does.

If your blog is on the same domain as your site then when a blog post attracts links the overall site is attracting links, which helps increase the overall authority of the domain. As a website gains authority more of its pages are able to rank without having to generate a lot of links to those pages.

If the blog is on a different domain then the links it attracts aren't helping the main site, only the domain where the blog resides. The blog itself might link back to the main site, but then the value of the links are a level removed by the time they reach the main site.

You're also reducing the overall authority of both domains since some links point to one and some point to the other. You end up having two websites to promote instead of one, which is naturally requires more work to get the same results.


How is a blog page different from any other page on the site, if they are on the same domain

Some of it is technical in that a blog post publishes an rss feed where a regular page might not. An rss feed allows readers to subscribe and be alerted when you publish again. More of it is in the content that gets published. A lot of it comes down to semantics. Blogs tend to be more informal than an article, though they don't have to be. Blogs usually have an expectation of a regular publishing schedule. There's generally a time sequence in blog posts more than there are in articles.

You could certainly publish the exact same content as a blog post or as an html page and you could even add rss to the html page and from the outside no one is going to know the difference. You'd probably be creating more work for yourself than using blogging software, but you could.

cbscreative
07-05-2011, 01:22 PM
Having your blog on a different domain vs the same domain is a mixed bag, and one that every site owner will need to decide on for themselves. From what I have both read and observed, having the blog on the same domain can actually weaken the effectiveness of your site. The same benefit that makes your domain stronger can come at a price. Let me explain.

Because blog traffic and site traffic have completely different motives and needs, you can develop a good following on your blog only to have visitors bypassing your site. IOW, the visitors to the blog could generally care less about your site content. You could even lose site traffic to the blog, which seems to be a significant problem many site owners have experienced.

When deciding whether you want to use one domain or two, decide if you want to risk having site visitors get distracted by your blog. If you are pulling in traffic to a web site, the site visitors should be seeking the content on your site. Delivering content specific to their search keeps you focused on getting conversions.

Like vangogh said, two domains are higher maintenance, but it could be worth it if you want to maximize the effectiveness of both. I think both can work together effectively, but I'd be very reluctant to say it's a good idea for most site owners. I'm guessing vangogh is addressing Ann's situation more so than offering up general advice.

vangogh
07-05-2011, 03:53 PM
From what I have both read and observed, having the blog on the same domain can actually weaken the effectiveness of your site.

Completely untrue. Sorry Steve, but nothing in your explanation makes any sense. If you're saying you shouldn't put a blog about your personal daily life then sure it doesn't belong on your site, but that's not really the issue here. If you're talking about a blog on a similar topic to the topic of your site then it's not going to hurt your site at all to include it.

greenoak
07-05-2011, 04:01 PM
i try to believe that about a blog being important....but my customers dont go there...i can see those numbers.... ...and so much actual money is coming with facebook i just have to pay attention....
i cant see moving it...im very happy with blogger...and have more work for my computer person than we ever get done..anyway they all link back and forth...the web and both blogs and facebook.....
if it helps my google i would try and work harder on it....but i am so swamped....

vangogh
07-05-2011, 05:12 PM
Ann it's certainly up to you whether or not you want to blog. There are many reasons why you might want one or why you might not. Just know that a blog can work for you. The reason it hasn't worked isn't because a blog can't work for your business or customers. It's just that you haven't figured out how to make it work yet.

Making it work could mean putting more time into it. It could mean rethinking how you're blogging and find a new direction. It could mean you need to promote it differently.

Having a successful blog does take work. I won't ever tell you it's easy. It definitely takes more than having a blog before you see the benefit. If you do later decide you want to put more into it, I would advise having the blog on the same domain as the site instead of having it on blogger. It's hard enough to blog successful that you should do what you can to maximize the benefit.

Spider
07-05-2011, 05:44 PM
While search engines rank pages, they're sophisticated enough to look at entire sites. What happens on one page of a site can and does affect the other pages. One reason blogs can be effective for seo is blogs are typically going to be informational content. A good blog isn't publishing sales copy. Sales copy doesn't attract links. Informational content does...I understand this to mean they are the same - if a page is primarily sales copy, a blog with that same sales copy will be as equally ineffective at attracting links, I think. And, if a page has the same informational content that is normally attributed to a blog, the page and the blog will be equally effective at attracting links, right?

And so on, with all the other points, including the contrary points raised by Steve@cbs.

Thanks. I was getting confused by the oft-remarked statements that blogs are this and pages are that, whereas a blog is a page, whatever you choose to blog about. What makes the difference is the content, as I understand it - the supposition that a blog is usually written this way and a page is usually writen another way; a blog is usually information and a page is usually sales copy; a blog often has a RSS feed and most pages don't... and so on.

Okay - I'm clear now. Thank you.

Maybe that will even help Ann with her decision.

vangogh
07-05-2011, 07:22 PM
Yes and no. How's that for an answer?

Yes in the sense that if a search engine is looking at the page content only it isn't going to see any real difference between an article and a blog. The exception is that the blog will have code for an rss feed added. To an algorithm neither page gains any advantage. It's still the same content.

However that rss thing makes a huge difference when it comes to other things. This is where content written as an html article is different than the same content as a blog post. Because of the rss people can subscribe to the blog and be alerted when new content is published. That means more people will likely see your content and more people will be likely to link to it or share it via email or social sites. The links and sharing will contribute greatly to how well the content later ranks in a search engine.

You can also add to the above that the major search engines have blog only searching that only blogs would show up in and there are directories and similar that will only include blog content, which give blogs some extra advantages over pages.

If you remove the social signals and the links and only consider the content itself, then it really shouldn't make any difference whether that content is a page or a post. It's still the same content and neither a search engine nor a person is going to think more or less of it regardless of how it's published. However the post with the rss feed has more potential to rank well and to attract more traffic.

The differences are nuanced, but those nuances can have a tremendous impact. None of the above is to say that content published on a blog is automatically going to be better than content published as a page. It might have more potential to do well, but that doesn't mean the potential is going to be reached.

Also not the original point I was making in regards to blogging had nothing to do with post vs page. I was only suggesting that if you are going to run a blog you'll be better served by having that blog run on the same domain as your sales pages. The advantages of having a blog be on the same domain as the rest of your site far outweigh not having it be on the same domain.

vangogh
07-05-2011, 07:36 PM
Thought I'd add a real example. I'm currently subscribed to about 500 blogs. In the morning I open my feedreader and all the new content from those blogs is pulled in. I scan the list of headings and decide what to read. When any of those blogs publishes a new post they can be reasonably safe in assuming it'll reach me.

If that same content was published in a way I couldn't subscribe to I wouldn't know when it was published and in order to read it I'd need to visit the site and look to see if there's anything new there. I couldn't realistically check 500 sites each day to see if they have new content. I'd probably check the sites of a small handful of the 500, though not every day. Most of the content being published by those sites would never come to my attention in any way.

The content on the blog that I can subscribe to can also be shared in other ways. The rss feed can be pulled into other applications like Facebook meaning it spreads even further than a feedreader. Many websites are little more than collections of rss feeds. The home page in my browser is set to a customized Yahoo page, which I've been using since I first got online. Everything on that page is published as an rss feed. Most people have some kind of browser home page whether it's Yahoo or Google or Aol or wherever.

Ultimately the benefit of a post over a page is the post travels further than the page. More people will likely see content published as a blog post than that same content published as a regular page.

Spider
07-05-2011, 09:06 PM
... Ultimately the benefit of a post over a page is the post travels further than the page. More people will likely see content published as a blog post than that same content published as a regular page.But only - if I understand you correctly - if the page to which you refer does not have a means to subscribe to an RSS feed. I have seen pages that make no mention of being a blog, that have RSS feed available. Does that make this page a blog, in your view, even though it doesn't call itself a blog?

greenoak
07-05-2011, 09:24 PM
500 blogs....wow....do you buy from any of the companies?

vangogh
07-06-2011, 12:10 AM
Ann I have done business with some of the blogs I read, but most aren't about directly selling something. The key to running a successful blog is to understand that it's not directly a sales vehicle for your products. Many of the blogs I read the product is the blog. They make money from advertising so in reading the blog I make them money. Others do sell some products and I have bought some. Not all products from all blogs selling products, but definitely some of them. Others I may not ever be a customer, but because I end up writing posts on my blog that reference theirs sending them links and visitors in the process.


Does that make this page a blog

RSS alone doesn't make something a blog. This forum publishes an rss feed, but it's clearly not a blog. That's why I said the differences are nuances. Blogs are one of those things that the more you try to define specifically what makes something a blog it just gets more confusing. When I first started blogging I was confused about what made a blog post different than an article. I think the best way to sort out the confusion is to subscribe to a few and see what they can be.

When blogs started they were mainly an online journal. Over time they became more. Some blogs are still personal journals. Some post tutorials. Others post articles. I don't think there's anything I could say is what makes something a blog by definition. I guess they would all need some mechanism for people to subscribe. Everything else I can think of typical of a blog I can also think of multiple examples of blogs that don't include that typical thing.

billbenson
07-06-2011, 01:31 AM
To be clear, there is no reason that a paginated site can't have the same rss feed that a blog can. If you have a review site, for example, you could just as easily do that in a paginated form or blog form and offer an rss feed for your review of the day in either case. It shouldn't have any effect on SEO in this instance either. Or am I misunderstanding something here?

greenoak
07-06-2011, 07:45 AM
we probably have different goals for our blogs....the goal for my blog was sales, indirectly would be fine, ....thats why im losing interest in it...to me its about business/ money/the actual store........i wouldnt care too much about 500 fans who never came to the store.......and i think you would have to have a huge readership to make any money advertizing, that wasnt my goal anyway....another goal i could see would be fame, and that wasnt mine either....mine just isnt working for me..... and i dont have much reason to think my customers are interested in blogs...
...they use facebook, ...and facebook brings in lots of money..... directly.... maybe over 1000 last weekend..... i post a picture of goats...and 150$ of them sell....etc etc...
blogging for fun, now that would be nice...but i dont have time ...

cbscreative
07-06-2011, 11:20 AM
Completely untrue. Sorry Steve, but nothing in your explanation makes any sense.

In my efforts to keep things simple, did I not explain it well enough?

Based on your other posts, and the fact that I pay attention to research and what others are saying online, this is a rhetorical question...but, with all the blogs you visit, how many of them do you click the link for the commercial site for if it has one? My point was that blog traffic is there for the blog and only a VERY small percentage will venture off to the commercial site if there is one associated with it.

If the blog has a one way link to a commercial site, that is plenty enough to capture the small stream of traffic the blog will produce. I'll grant you that a commercial site on the same domain will inherit ranking from the blog, but so will a separate domain. Which method is stronger or better depends entirely on the goals and purposes of each.

Since this is all still pretty abstract, let me use Ann as an example. I'm just making this up on the fly so it's strictly for illustration. Suppose Ann found out that a lot of people were looking for Victorian mirrors and she has them. If she could blog about Victorian mirrors enough to justify a blog for it, she could rule that niche and drive commercial traffic to her site to buy them. Trying to make her store site rank for Victorian mirrors would be much more difficult.

Carry this illustration a little further and you could develop other blogs dedicated to different niches each pointing to her site. There would be no need to point the site to the blogs because those will rank on their own, and each blog would boost her site ranking. Search terms that indicate information seekers will more likely provide blog posts in the SERPS and terms more likely to be buyers could easily yield site pages. Google is getting smarter about discerning the intent of the person searching.

I realize Ann already said she doesn't have time, desire, or personnel for this, but it still illustrates the principle.

vangogh
07-06-2011, 11:49 AM
with all the blogs you visit, how many of them do you click the link for the commercial site for if it has one?

As I mentioned to Ann above I do click to some and buy from them, but even if I never did how does it weaken the effectiveness of your site? Take those blogs away and I'm not visiting the sites at all. They'd have 0 chance to ever sell to me, whereas with the blog they have a chance greater than 0. And again I have and will continue to buy from some of them and I have clicked around the sites of the majority of them even if I don't necessarily buy.

Not everything you do in business is meant to be a 1:1 direct relationship with selling. The best blogs are not direct selling vehicles. In Ann's case her blog wouldn't be about a product or even all of her products. people are not going to subscribe to a blog that's simply an excuse to write sales copy. However if Ann were to write around her topic then her blog could help build a stronger relationship with existing customers, it can provide content for search engines to index, and it can help her sales pages rank better.

Some topics I've previously suggested to Ann as candidates for a blog.

Write posts offering some history on different people/companies behind antique furniture etc.
Write posts or better record video showing how you can build your own furniture
Incorporate a way for customers to show pictures of their homes, gardens, etc that feature things purchases at Ann's store

None of those are about direct selling. In fact you could argue the 2nd one is the exact opposite of selling as you're showing people how to build your products instead of buying them from you. The things is even the DIY posts will lead to more customers as most people aren't going to build the furniture themselves. They're more likely to see how difficult it is while noting that you do it very well and their best option is to buy from you.

The ideas above aren't meant to sell. They're meant to keep people engaged with your site. It will help you reach new potential customers. It well help you turn one time customers into repeat buyers. It will attract links and social sharing which will help your sales pages become more visible in search engines.

If you say that some blogs may not be effective I don't have a problem with that, though I think in nearly all those cases it's because the blog wasn't done effectively and not that the blog couldn't be done effectively. However when you say a blog can make your other pages less effectively I think that's completely untrue.

Maybe if you're blogging about how you're ripping off your customers by arbitrarily doubling prices or posting their credit card numbers or things like that. But in those cases it's not the blog causing the problems, it's someone really clueless behind the blog causing problems.

And just to make clear I'm not saying everyone should rush out and start a blog. Running an effective blog isn't easy. You need to be committed to making it work and most people simply don't put in what's necessary to make it work. However for those willing to put in the time a blog can be one of the most effective ways to marketing your business and connect with your customers.

cbscreative
07-06-2011, 06:09 PM
Take those blogs away and I'm not visiting the sites at all.

Whether the blog is on the same domain or a different one, you're not really visiting the "site" if you stay on the blog.

My statement about reducing the effectiveness of the site is based on experiences I have read as reported by site owners. What is happening in many cases is the visitors arrive on the "site" and then click on the blog. Whether the blog is on the same domain or a different one, they have technically left the site when they do this. These same visitors may or may not return to the site. When they don't return, it could qualify as reducing the effectiveness of the site, but I'm not saying losing traffic to a blog is automatically bad.

When I first read of site owners having this experience, I never would have thought of that effect, but in a way it makes sense. I think about my own online behavior; if I click on a link, blog or otherwise, I may or may not return to the source of the link. Getting traffic from a blog to a site is desirable since only a commercial site is conducive to "selling." Losing site traffic to a blog is less desirable so that's why many people who have experienced this would classify it as reduced effectiveness.

Obviously, "effectiveness" is going to be measured in a lot of different ways. I was also referring to a common practice of putting a blog link on a site and then sometimes getting an unpleasant surprise when traffic takes the escape route too early.

vangogh
07-06-2011, 06:27 PM
Why aren't you visiting the site if you're on the blog? Does that mean when I visit your about page I'm not really on the site because I didn't view the contact page. That makes no sense. No one is technically leaving a site when they visit a blog. Different parts of a site have different goals. A website is not defined by pages that sell something directly. If two web pages are on the same domain they're on the same site.

How exactly do you define a website? A blog is as much a part of a site as is any other page of the site. A blog page might have a different purpose than a sales page, but as long as both sit on the same domain both are part of the same site.

You also aren't losing traffic to your blog. Your assumption is that if the blog weren't there people would stay on your sales page and buy something. More likely they would leave and go to another site and never come back. If someone is visiting your blog they're showing an interest in your and your site. The blog is only making them more likely to buy, not less. If they never buy they were never going to. You can't assume they would have become a customer.

Spider
07-06-2011, 10:14 PM
You see, this conversation - interesting as it may be - is an example of how confusion arises. The constant reference to a blog being something different, whether it is actually located on the same domain as a 'site' or located somewhere else, cannot be true. My understanding is that a blog is a webpage or a series of them. A forum is a webpage, or a series of them. A website is a page or a series of them. And, in truth, the pages of a website do not have to be on the same domain - a website could be spread over many domains, for that matter, as long as the pages link together by navigation links.

I can see both points of view - if a visitor is tempted to go to a non-commercial portion of a website, they are distracted from buying something. If the non-commercial portion of a website is on the same domain as the commercial portion, the traffic to each section will be combined as the traffic to the whole site. There may be some advantage in that. But what does it serve having two separately functioning sites operating as one, just to combine their traffic?

I suppose Ford and Chrysler could join their websites under a single domain - fordandchrysler.com - just to be able to say their site gets more traffic than gm.com, but will they sell more cars?

vangogh
07-06-2011, 11:12 PM
We talked about this a couple of pages back, but it is hard to define what a blog is. I know one when I see one, but when trying to pinpoint specifically what makes it a blog it breaks down because there are many exceptions to every rule you try to use in the definition. I really think the best way to understand what a blog is, is simply to subscribe to a few different ones and read them.

As far as a site losing a sale because someone left a sales page to visit a web page. If someone leaves your sales page without buying it's because they weren't ready to buy at that moment or something on the sales page wasn't able to convince them to buy. That person could leave and go to an infinite number of different places.

If you can get them to visit your blog that's a good thing. It means you've kept them on your site instead of letting them go to another site. If your blog can then interest them and get them to come back you now have more opportunities to sell them at a later time. If you didn't have a blog that person was still leaving. The difference is they weren't coming back. A blog isn't going to distract people from visiting your sales pages again.

You can make the argument that giving people fewer options on a sales page is more likely to result in them making the choice you want. That's why you see those long sales pages with everything highlighted in red having no navigation. They leave the user 2 options, buy or leave. However if someone leaves your sales page to go to your blog it's not quite the same thing. A blog represents a way to keep someone coming back again and again.

If the suggestion is that any page that isn't a sales page is distracting people from buying then you're suggesting all sites be reduced to the single sales page. And I don't think anyone here is suggesting a website should only be a single long sales page.

People are more likely to buy from you if they know and if they trust you. That's a big benefit of a blog. By bringing people back day after day and interacting with them they get to know you and they come to trust you. A blog can be a great sales tool. If for some reason people no longer want to buy from you after reading your blog, it's not because you have a blog. It's because you did a poor job of running a blog.

An example that has nothing to do with websites. Imagine you run a sporting good store in Dallas. On the sign in front of your store you write in big letters. Cowboys suck. Redskins rule. I'm guessing your sporting goods store isn't going to be a success. Openly rooting for the Washington Redskins in Dallas is not likely to endear you to Dallas residents. The conclusion shouldn't be signs are bad. It's what you wrote on the sign and your lack of understanding of the market that led to failure.

Similarly with a blog. If your blog turns people away it's not because you had a blog. It's because of the things you published. If your sales page has bad copy the conclusion isn't sales pages are bad. The conclusion should be you did a poor job writing the sales copy.

Blogs do not distract people away from the commercial pages of the site. If someone lands on your sales page and doesn't buy something it's not the fault of the next page they visit. It's either they weren't going to buy at that moment under any circumstance or the sales page did a poor job getting them to buy.

greenoak
07-07-2011, 05:38 PM
my blogs and web are intertwined...and i doubt if most people mind or would even notice if they were more imbedded...
i read blogs on one site and leave it for another all the time....hopping all around and often forget where i started....thats half the fun of blogs and links .... its even got a word...blog hopping.......
im suprised you say blogs dont distract people from commercial pages of the site.....i think it happens a whole lot....its risky to put blog links on i think....but they are also such a draw .... on facebook people thank me for the fun links which i sometimes p ut on in the form of blogs or other spots.......but i know it takes them away from my page....same with the links on my blog..

vangogh
07-07-2011, 07:02 PM
First we're specifically talking about blogs that are on the same domain as the sales pages of a site, not leaving domain.com to go to blogger.com and then over to wordpress.com.

I say blogs don't distract people away from sales pages because it's not the blog. It's the sales page that didn't do it's job to keep the person's attention and lead them to take some action. If the blog is distracting that person then so is your about page, your contact page, your privacy policy, or any other page you link to. You can't say a blog distracts without also including every other page on the site. If you think you shouldn't include a blog because it distracts then you shouldn't be including any page that isn't directly selling something and you'd be left with single long sales pages. The kinds of pages everyone here would look at and call spam.

If you're enjoying hopping around for page to page and site to site I think it's a false assumption to assume you would have bought something had you not clicked away from the sales page. You weren't going to buy. You left the sales page because you weren't interested in buying anything at that moment.

Unlike pages like an about page or contact page, a blog does a lot of work to convince you to come back to the site. For one it has a mechanism to let you subscribe so you don't even need to go back to the site to be kept aware of the site. Also the way the content is written it's more likely you're going to want to read the next blog post than to revisit the about page and read it again.

Most people landing on your sales pages are not going to buy something at that time. If they leave to visit another site they probably aren't coming back. If they leave to visit your blog there's a much greater chance they will stay connected with your site in some way, giving you more opportunity to sell to them later.

greenoak
07-07-2011, 07:35 PM
i hear you.... i dont sell online so i dont have a sales page....my site is more to tempt them to come to the store in person......
i dont realy connect my fun on blogs with buying..... to me its more for my personal entertainment, info and eye candy..... i dont actually buy online except for amazon and zappos...with a very few exceptions...

vangogh
07-07-2011, 07:50 PM
And not all blogs are meant for commercial purposes. And not all blogs with a commercial intent are meant to sell to every reader they attract.

This just occurred to me. I'm assuming that you end up chit chatting with some of your customers. You'll talk to them about things that aren't specifically about something you sell. When you do you get to know them and they get to know you more and those conversations probably get some people to come back more often or get someone who's thinking about buying something to actually buy it. Those conversations aren't about directly selling anything, but they help the customer know you and trust you and as a consequence make them more willing to buy from you.

A blog can work the same way. You can't exactly have those conversations with people visiting your site. Blog posts though are one way to have something of a conversation. Visitors to your site can get to know you better and come to trust you more and as a consequence are more likely to buy from you. Not everyone who reads your blog is going to buy from you the same way every person in your store you talk to isn't going to buy from.

The net result of the talking or blogging is usually more sales.