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orion_joel
10-12-2008, 08:55 AM
Earlier today when i was reading a Post by Dan (Here (http://www.small-business-forum.net/planning-your-business/475-what-sort-business-start-2.html#post5866)) I really got thinking about Personal Branding, and started looking at just how i could take my business and make it more personal, and if it would benefit me.

I am wondering what other's have found in this line, have you tried or do you personally brand yourself. Has it been a benefit or maybe it is just the opposite and caused you more pain then anything.

Also from a marketing point of view, can it help to market yourself for services and sales of product, or is it a bad idea to connect products to yourself?

Thanks for your input i really look forward to hearing your idea's on this topic.

vangogh
10-12-2008, 05:13 PM
The decision to brand yourself probably depends a little on your business and your goals. For example you know the IBM brand. Do you know any of the names running the company? You might, but I doubt any are branded particularly well. Does a lack of personal branding hurt IBM? Not at all.

Take another large company, Microsoft. We all know Bill Gates. He has a brand. Did his brand help or hurt Microsoft? Now that he's no longer running Microsoft does his absence change your perception of Microsoft as a company? Probably not, but because Bill Gates does is a brand he can take that brand to a new company.

Take your particular case. Would your business do better because people know Joel Brown or Orion Networks? You're probably better off branding Orion Networks in this case. If you brand your name then you'll have the additional task of making sure your name is tied to the company name.

On the other hand if you brand your name well then you could more seamlessly move between different businesses. You could in theory sell Orion Networks, start a new company and pick up close to where you left off.

I don't think this is one of those things where it's better to brand yourself or your business automatically. Either can result in success. You need to decide which is more important to your business and your future plans. There's also no reason why you can't brand both your own name and your company name, though it's going to be more work to brand two names as opposed to one.

rob-brown.com
10-13-2008, 03:01 PM
It's not so much about your personal brand. This is what most people get wrong. It's about your personal reputation. Here's the difference. Your brand is the messages and cues you give out. It's your blogs, webite, business card, car, the way you walk, talk and dress. Your reputation is what people think, do, feel and say when they come into contact with those messages.

My work helps people be the number one choice for what they do, and personal brand is only part of the picture. You've got to consider what you want to be known for, and what you want people to say about you when they come across you or your name. In my Amazon bestseller How to Build Your Reputation (http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Your-Reputation-Professional/dp/1905823118/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223924333&sr=8-1), I give 10 strategies to do this.

When you consider the endpoint - how you want to be percieved - that's when you can make the decision about whether to brand yourself or you as part of something bigger.

Rob.

vangogh
10-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Interesting perspective Rob, but I think some of it is semantics. I don't think brand and reputation are different things. Your reputation is part of your brand and your brand is absolutely affected by your reputation.

I agree your reputation is important, but I don't see it as an either/or kind of thing. Your personal brand is the sum of associations people think and feel about you. Part of that will come from the message you send out and part will come from your reputation. If what you do is different than what you say then your reputation suffers, which affects your brand.

Maybe that's what you're saying and I'm misinterpreting a bit (It's been known to happen). I just want to make clear that brand and reputation aren't different things. They're very much connected and work together.

And welcome to the forum. Nice discussion as your first post. I look forward to more.

greenoak
10-13-2008, 06:53 PM
i think our brand is how the customers see us... what people mean when they say to me they came because they need a fix....or it seemed like a greenoak kind of day.....im never sure exactly what they mean..but its nice and but i try to do it more.lol.....i guess in that way i try to brand...my clothes would get an f...since i paint on the job sometimes...and get all kinds of dirty..
.by having lots of inventory, and a huge variety...and good prices....and the unusuall..i try to be a fun place to shop.....like today when i bought 1000$ in big metal junk art bugs...im thinking my lake customers will love them.... they are truly amazing and worth the trip to see....nothing like hallmark!!....cant wait to put them on the blog...
to me its reality.not something you can make up......how you really function for the customers...like my builder...when the brick workers ruined a whole wall of windows the builder said dont worry, im responsible....
ann

orion_joel
10-14-2008, 02:22 AM
Some interesting point of view here. There was really one primary reason that i would like to take the path of personally branding myself for my service. It really for the most part came down to i can better perceive operating as a me/I business when operating as myself, as opposed to a us/we business when i have a business name.

In reality, i think that this is entirely to do with changing my own perception. But i think that the points you made Vangogh, in your first post are quite valid, that it can be worth branding as an individual as well as a business. Which i think will really be the way that i would like to go. Primarily for the ability to in the future sell the business if i find it possible. Where as if i convert entirely to promoting myself as the brand it will be much more difficult to sell.

I suppose to some extent i have started branding myself with my blog, however this only goes half way as i have not so far connected blog and business. Plus really have not personalized the blog, it is got my name but that is almost as far as the connection to me goes. Absolutely something that i need to put some work into i think.

vangogh
10-14-2008, 03:47 AM
Why not connect the blog to the business site. All it would take is adding a link in the main navigation of each.

Last year I wrote a post called branding for small business and bloggers (http://www.vanseodesign.com/blog/branding/branding-for-small-business-and-bloggers/) in order to explain what brand is, why it's important, and how small businesses and individuals can build their brand. Seems appropriate to the discussions.

My favorite definition about brand is one I found searching. It's from Steve McNamara, of AdCracker.Com


“A brand is the sum of all feelings, thoughts and recognitions - positive and negative - that people in the target audience have about a company, a product or service.”

Brand has two components, one being the above feelings, thoughts, and recognitions, and the other being the reach of those same feelings, thoughts, and recognitions.

If you person knows you and sees you as an expert when it comes to computer support, then that's your brand (or at least part of it) to that one person. In order to continue to maintain that brand you'd want to do everything you could to prove to that one person you are indeed an authority when it comes to computer support.

If at some point that person asks you to come by and help them install and configure some software and you can't find the cd tray you hurt your brand with that person. If on the other hand you come in and while that person is looking for the cd you download the .exe file, install the program and have it configured by the time the person is back, you reinforce your brand.

If your brand is strong enough with the single person that person is always going to call you when they have a computer problem. You have a loyal customer.

You likely want more than one customer though, so you want to extend the reach of your brand by getting others to form those same thoughts and feelings as the person in the example above. I think reach is what most people call to mind when they think of brand as though it's all about getting known by as many people as possible. I think the part about the feelings and thoughts, the sum of all associations, is the more important part of brand.

How far your reach needs to extend depends on your business. Most small businesses do not need to reach everyone. Many service oriented businesses don't need a large number of clients to do well. Maybe it's 5, maybe it's 2 dozen. It's not on the order of thousands or millions. How many people do you really need to reach to convince 2 dozen that you're the one to hire. How far does our brand really need to reach in that case?

As your business grows and you hire employees or begin to offer products you'd want your reach to grow, but I think a lot of small business owners push into the reach without really understanding the sum of all associations component. I think that's what Rob is really talking about with reputation.

Aaron Hats
10-14-2008, 10:10 AM
I suppose I am branding myself since I'm the public face of the company. Ultimately, the goal is to grow the business and increase sales. If I thought an actor or somebody else could do a better job at it I'd gladly step aside as the face of Aaron Hats.

Speaking of branding...what about those used car lot guys who have the stupidest tv commercials? Wearing women's clothes, a superhero's cape or some other ridiculous getup. What kind of brand are they building?

vangogh
10-14-2008, 12:04 PM
To me those people brand themselves in a way that brings up all the associations we have with the sleazy used car salesman. I think they do it because it fills their egos to appear in commercials and maybe because it's cheaper than hiring someone. Those commercials don't get me to want to visit their dealerships, but maybe the type of people they ultimately market to like the commercials.

Their target market may think the commercials are the greatest things in the world.

KristineS
10-14-2008, 03:59 PM
I think with the lot of the used car guys, they want to have a gimmick, because they think that will get people talking. They don't seem to grasp that people would want to buy a car from someone they trust, not someone who acts like a good on television.

vangogh
10-14-2008, 10:14 PM
I have a hunch that those cheesy commercials actually play well or at least better than we expect for the target market. But I also think they're cheap to produce and give an ego boost to the sales people in them.

Paul Elliott
10-15-2008, 04:42 PM
Take your particular case. Would your business do better because people know Joel Brown or Orion Networks? You're probably better off branding Orion Networks in this case. If you brand your name then you'll have the additional task of making sure your name is tied to the company name.

On the other hand if you brand your name well then you could more seamlessly move between different businesses. You could in theory sell Orion Networks, start a new company and pick up close to where you left off.

People who brand a business with their name find it more difficult to sell, since the buyers may not be willing or able to effectively continue the appearance of that relationship. Changing a brand name, when it must be done, is a process of careful transition.

Recall 20, or so, years ago when Datsun morphed into Nissan. For a time their signs had DATSUN nissan, then Datsun Nissan, then datsun NISSAN, and finally Nissan. They made this transition over at least 5 years.

In the process Nissan had to change all the identification of their vehicles, but all signage, printed materials, and advertising worldwide to ensure that the customer made the transition with them.

Notice how few major businesses are named after a founder. One example would be Ford Motors, Inc. However, it isn't the Henry Ford Motor Company, Inc.

I would suggest a focus on a "saleable" brand that you can sell or pass on to your heirs without it being inextricably related to you by name.

Of course, you are currently part of that brand in that you are the guarantor, so to speak.

Paul

Dan Furman
10-15-2008, 05:27 PM
In my post that Joel referenced, I do indeed talk about branding myself. But that's also because of the nature of the business that I'm in - it's very personal. Obviously, I'm not advocating Ford be Henry Ford...

But Ford is effectively branded - to their diehards, no other brand will do - that was my whole point. It doesn't matter how you brand yourself (or what name you use) - the point is to make it so your brand becomes just as much the reason to buy as the actual thing you are selling.

See, by doing this, you eliminate some competition (to a degree) - nobody else can make a Ford but Ford.

Paul Elliott
10-15-2008, 05:34 PM
In my post that Joel referenced, I do indeed talk about branding myself. But that's also because of the nature of the business that I'm in - it's very personal. Obviously, I'm not advocating Ford be Henry Ford...

But Ford is effectively branded - to their diehards, no other brand will do - that was my whole point. It doesn't matter how you brand yourself (or what name you use) - the point is to make it so your brand becomes just as much the reason to buy as the actual thing you are selling.

See, by doing this, you eliminate some competition (to a degree) - nobody else can make a Ford but Ford.

Thanks, Dan. I agree completely with your position. I should have done you the courtesy of reviewing your referenced post before commenting.

Paul

Dan Furman
10-15-2008, 07:31 PM
Thanks, Dan. I agree completely with your position. I should have done you the courtesy of reviewing your referenced post before commenting.

Paul

Oh, it wasn't really you, Paul (your post just happened to be last and mention Ford, which then I keyed on). The whole thread was really too literal on personal branding :)

vangogh
10-16-2008, 02:07 AM
People who brand a business with their name find it more difficult to sell

I hope I didn't leave the impression that personal branding means you have to name your business after yourself. In Joel's case he could work more toward building the business name or his own name and still be successful given the nature of his business. My business is the same way. It's me. I could care less whether people hire me because they know me as Van SEO Design, or Steven Bradley, or vangogh. Any or all of the three could be branded and bring business my way.

I would argue though that selling a business isn't necessarily the goal of all businesses.

By the way there are plenty of businesses that were named after real people (http://money.aol.com/special/companies-named-after-people) that people would gladly buy. Just a few examples.

Wendy's, Arby's, Tupperware, Converse, Adidas, Keebler, Macy's, Chevrolet, Proctor & Gamble.

Once the name is branded well enough it doesn't matter that it was at one time associated with a very specific person or persons. That's the power of branding.

KristineS
10-16-2008, 10:18 AM
I think the size of the business makes a difference too. Look at the ones you mentioned Vangogh. They're all quite large companies. A smaller company may be easier to tie to one person and also more likely to be dominated by one person. Part of the equation is how much the founder of the business is willing to let other people do. You have to release some control and recognize the ideas of other people if you want the business to continue on past you. For some entrepreneurs, particularly in the beginning, that's hard.

vangogh
10-16-2008, 12:47 PM
I agree. I just wanted to point out that using a name in your company and branding that name could still result in a big business that would be attractive to buyers.

Aaron Hats
10-16-2008, 01:13 PM
It's funny that vangogh should mention Wendy's. Our local Wendy's just shut down all of a sudden. The newspaper did a little story and said that Arby's bought Wendy's back in the spring but that ever since Dave Thomas died in 2002 they company has struggled with its image and sales. Was the business tied too much to Dave Thomas?

vangogh
10-16-2008, 04:02 PM
From what I understand about Wendy's, Dave Thomas was the perfect pitch man. He was great at selling Wendy's to consumers. I think they've struggled with their advertising since and have tried a variety of different ad campaigns, but none seems to be sticking or doing as well as when Dave Thomas was doing the commercials. They're still looking for a new image.

I'm not sure if anything more was so tied to him, but it's always possible. Then again if Arby's bought them the Wendy's name certainly wasn't an impediment to a sale of the company, but it could be a case where Dave Thomas was much more branded than than the Wendy's name.

It's interesting, because you could argue that without the Dave Thomas brand Wendy's might never have grown to what they became in the first place. I think the whole concept of personal branding vs. company branding is one that comes with pros and cons on each side and your best bet is to see which one aligns better with your company goals. I think it's also possible to brand both personally and as a company, though of course it would take more work and money than it would to brand one.

orion_joel
10-16-2008, 10:11 PM
There has been some interesting responses here. I think what i am really looking for is to still brand my company for the products and services that it provides. But additionally to brand myself and make myself known for what i can do, rather then singularly branding the business.

While i know it would probably be a pretty silly idea to brand myself as the business, more so because one of the big things that i look at is the value i am creating in the business, as an asset that could potentially be sold. I also see that i have talents outside the scope of the business, that could be put to good use not just for my business but for myself as well. In reality the branding may not really be to build a business or profit or even revenue but to build my image and to make it easier for me to make a move through the local and later on not so local business world.

vangogh
10-16-2008, 11:09 PM
I had a feeling that's what you were looking to do. You're reasoning for wanting to brand yourself is the same one many people have. If you brand yourself you can later sell Orion and still carry your brand into your next business venture.

The issue becomes having to brand two entities, you and your business, which is naturally more difficult than branding only one entity.

One way to do both is for a time to connect them. You kind of do this already with your username here. You could change your avatar to be a picture of you or something you'll specifically associate with yourself, and then add the Orion Networks text.

Make the image in the avatar something you don't specifically use for Orion. Sometimes be one or the other only and use the appropriate images, but more often connect them in some way. Why not add your blog to your site. You could still keep it on the separate domain, but link back and forth between the two. Make sure the site and blog each link to each other in their main navigational structure. At the top of every post use the same image that represents your personal brand. Ideally the site and blog would have identical designs and both would use Orion Networks in the header. But make yourself (along with your name and personal branding image) very visible on both the site and blog.

Spend time participating in communities online and depending on which site push either the personal or the company brand more. On a site like Digg you'd probably want to be Joel Brown. On a site like LinkedIn you might choose to be Orion Networks. But whichever you choose to brand make sure the other is still connected.

It might dilute your efforts a little when it comes to branding one or the other, but overall it will likely be less effort to build both brands that way.