Guest blogger, copywriter or ghost writer??

[lav]

I am about to start another blog. Although I enjoy blogging and would love to be able to sit and write a blog regularly it just isnt possible. I can spend a week writing a blog post.....

There are some clear benefits of what a good blog will do for my site in general so its pretty much a must have at this stage.

So hoping Dan, VG and the other writers here can chime in and offer some pitfalls and benefits of each so I can make a decision on whether to look for:

A) a guest blogger who is already writing on the topic eg. tradeshow marketing, expo's and events concerns are that they promote my competition or have a differing opinion than I do on some topics

B) A copywriter... I have concerns regarding cost and quality

C) A ghost writer... I am not totally sure what this is but I assume it is a copywriter who writes for me and I put my name to it, My concern with this is that I may be perceived as something that Im not

Both B and C I wonder how it would actually work eg would I have to put in a ton of work just to provide them the information they need or will they do their own research on the topic? Or do i need to find someone who has knowledge of the industry?

If its more work for me to provide info to a copywriter to get a good result then its probably best I knuckle down and write the thing myself :(

[Patrysha]

I've done stints as all three...

But you don't need a traditional copywriter (they tend to write sales copy...which is not what you need for blog posts). You want an article writer or an article writing service. If you hire someone like All Custom Content, they'll take care of research and writing (for a price of course, but last I checked in it was a pretty decent one...) this completely eliminates your need to look for or hover over writers at all...I've personally worked for them as a ghostwriter and have been a client as well :-)

Another option you didn't mention is PLR. You have to rewrite it, but it works great to cut down on personal writing time because you sort of have an outline of the information and you just have to add your flair to make it unique.

Also guest writers don't necessarily have to agree with you. It gives you an easy post in talking points you disagree with and why. This makes you appear to be even more of an expert because you do show "both" sides (as if there are only ever two sides). You also can pull in guest writers from other fields...that would still appeal to your target market for example if you deal in tradeshows and events...perhaps someone who specializes in another area of business - lawyer, accountant...maybe an accountant on the importance of budgeting for tradeshows or what counts as a legitimate business expense on the tradeshow road trip...or maybe a marketer on how to make the most of the tradeshow experience like follow up...

And don't overlook other ways to post to your blog...like the Wordless Wednesday that so many bloggers do...where it's just a picture...and many to a Tell All Thursday where they expand with words on the picture from the day before. Don't be afraid to take advantage of lazy ways to get quality content that's relevant to your audience...

[tylerhutchinson]

There are sites (freelancer.com) where you can pay people to blog for you. I use Freelancer for different things, and I like it because I can put the price range I am willing to pay for the projects and then you will find people who will bid on them and you can then pick who you want to hire.

There are other sites specific for blogging that is similar to freelancer. This might be a good option for you. Get cheap, good quality blogs and it frees your time up!

[KristineS]

Guest bloggers are fun simply because they may have opinions different than your own. The thing about guest bloggers is they generally only write occasionally. If you wanted a bunch of different bloggers writing for your site then I imagine they'd become staff bloggers or something and would require some sort of compensation.

If you hire a writer, then you have a certain amount of control over what they write. You're paying them to present your ideas, it's not as if they're being paid to write their opinions, unless of course that's what you want them to do. If you hire someone to represent your business in a blogging setting, then they should be writing from your mindset not there mindset. As long as that's spelled out up front, I don't see why it should be a problem. You just have to make sure that everyone is very clear on what the boundaries and rules are.

[vangogh]

I would eliminate copywriters too since you seem to want someone to write for a blog. I don't think it matters what you specifically call the person you hire or what they call themselves as long as they can write well and make your blog interesting. I'd give your writers credit though. No need to have all the posts be under your name.

There are plenty of job boards around now with bloggers for hire.

ProBlogger (http://jobs.problogger.net/) has a job board. So does Freelance Folder (http://freelancefolder.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8). I think both feature writing jobs so you may get some ideas or decide to post an ad yourself.

You can also look for blogs on the same topic and approach writers you like directly. Sites have contacted me over the years about writing guest posts for them after they saw and liked my writing. Some offer to pay and others don't. Add a "write for us" page on the blog so anyone reading can submit a post. You don't have to guarantee to publish them and you'll likely get better results if you pay well.

[Dan Furman]

I've done all three of these. I don't really guest blog anymore unless it's some benefit to me - i.e: an already established site.

I do work for hire as B and C - I'll give you some info on how I do it.

In the case of B, the client and I will usually invent a persona (invariably someone like me) who works for the company, etc. While sometimes there's something specific the client wants me to write about, I usually insist on being able to generally pick and choose most topics (most related to the company and what they do, of course, but I also reserve the right to be flighty sometimes and post a movie review/etc, as that keeps it more authentic.) If I go on vacation, the persona went on vacation, and might have something to say about it, etc. Just to give you an idea of costs, it's usually $100 a post if it's a steady thing (and higher if it's something that the client really wants me to research/etc). Obviously, this is expensive for possibly getting a movie review or a complaint about a slow driver on the way to work today, so it's usually more established companies that hire me for this kind of thing. There's MUCH cheaper out there. My prices are what they are for this kind of work because as Patrysha said, this isn't traditional copywriting work, but I need to make "x" to justify my time on this type of work.

I also do ghostwritten blogs. I'm on some pretty big blog sites in this respect, and write for a few "name" people (or people developing a name). The client usually picks the topic here, and I'll ask they provide me an opinion if needs be, so I am consistent with their real life self. I may ask for research help, especially if credible info is hard to come by (medical stuff, etc). These are more expensive ($300+)

My suggestion is to find somebody to do B, but give them some leeway, and also cut them some slack. Too many people want each blog post to be something kocked out of the park, and that's really not possible. Sometimes, a movie review is just fine.

[cbscreative]

My contribution to this discussion is going to come in at a slightly different angle. When you used trade shows and expos as examples, were these just examples or is this one of the actual topics you want to cover? If it's an actual topic, then how are these doing in Australia?

I ask because such events are steadily declining in the US; the attendance is often dismal and almost always less than previous years. If you are taking on this topic, discussing what works should be of interest to anyone considering an event (unless they prefer to go in blind). What used to work isn't doing so well any more.

Which ever method you decide on, you'll want to be sure your writers are not relying on outdated information.

BTW, Jason, welcome back.

[lav]

were these just examples or is this one of the actual topics you want to coverYes these are the topics....
I ask because such events are steadily declining in the US; the attendance is often dismal and almost always less than previous years.I have read that somewhere as well but ive also read vice versa. I cant see tradeshows diminishing for quite a while yet.... its a bit like the blog verses social media argument, there are many different opinions. On a personal note Im doing more tradeshow exhibits now than I ever was (I mean manfacturing the displays)

I think I'll write 1 or 2 blog posts myself just to get the ball rolling and then invite a guest blogger or 2. I have someone in mind. If all goes well I may look at a copywriter.
My suggestion is to find somebody to do B,I think that may be the way to go too Dan

[erichtoll]

As a professional writer since 1987, my advice would be:
a) you probably know your content best, and ergo should contribute content
b) if you're a slow writer, or unsure about your writing skills, I would hand over the content to someone else to polish

Any professional writer or editor can take your notes - or even interview you by phone or skype - and create great content quickly. You can have the middle ground: your expertise, that a writer edits and whips into an attractive blog

[ryanb4614]

I used to pay $8 a article/blog. If you find better rates let me know. I will try to find the website I used. They would have me the article/blog within the same or next day.

[vangogh]

If you're paying $8 for an article or post you aren't paying for anything worth reading.

[KristineS]

It consistently amazes me the rates that I will find out there for articles and for blog posts. I suppose it's like anything else, there will always be people who convince themselves they're writing for the experience or the credit and so will do so for a smaller fee.

[vangogh]

The $8 content writers generally aren't people looking to gain experience writing. For the most part they're people who are writing in a language that isn't their native language. They aren't concerned with the craft of writing as much as they're interested in producing as many articles/posts as possible with no thought to the quality of those articles/posts.

[cbscreative]

I have to agree with vangogh and Kristine, those are just article mills stringing words together in mass volume like parts on an assembly line. When I first got into this biz, it amazed me how little respect most writers have for themselves. At the risk of sounding a bit brash, I am now glad these article mills and cheap service providers exist. I find it amusing when my client's competitors use such service providers. Every quick, easy, cheap tactic used by your competition is an opportunity to dominate the market before they know what hit them.

[billbenson]

I have to agree with vangogh and Kristine, those are just article mills stringing words together in mass volume like parts on an assembly line. When I first got into this biz, it amazed me how little respect most writers have for themselves. At the risk of sounding a bit brash, I am now glad these article mills and cheap service providers exist. I find it amusing when my client's competitors use such service providers. Every quick, easy, cheap tactic used by your competition is an opportunity to dominate the market before they know what hit them.

A little off topic, but that is what makes the web a great opportunity. Most web sites are really bad from a marketing standpoint. Both large corporate sites and small ones. It provides a lot of opportunities for people like me. I don't see that changing a lot as writing a site that sells can be very difficult, even for competent designers. I say even for competent designers as it may be very difficult to find a designer who knows a particular product line or the best ways to market that product. In many cases, a lot of the design and web marketing still has to fall back on the site owner and they rarely know much about online marketing.

[Spider]

But how do you distinguish one from the other? Whether one is a big business, a small business, a one-person business, how can you select the person or company who can "write a site that sells?" Especially when "even for competent designers as it may be very difficult to find a designer who knows a particular product line or the best ways to market that product."

It's all very well to say, Don't use a writer if they charge $8 per article, but that doesn't tell a business owner WHO to hire. That's like saying, Don't pay $8 for a radio from Walmart when the $50 radio from GE is likely made in the same country and possibly even in the same factory!

What are the criteria for deciding who is the right copywriter to hire? How do you find the right copywriter?

[cbscreative]

A little off topic, but that is what makes the web a great opportunity. Most web sites are really bad from a marketing standpoint. Both large corporate sites and small ones. It provides a lot of opportunities for people like me. I don't see that changing a lot as writing a site that sells can be very difficult, even for competent designers. I say even for competent designers as it may be very difficult to find a designer who knows a particular product line or the best ways to market that product. In many cases, a lot of the design and web marketing still has to fall back on the site owner and they rarely know much about online marketing.


But how do you distinguish one from the other? Whether one is a big business, a small business, a one-person business, how can you select the person or company who can "write a site that sells?" Especially when "even for competent designers as it may be very difficult to find a designer who knows a particular product line or the best ways to market that product."

It's all very well to say, Don't use a writer if they charge $8 per article, but that doesn't tell a business owner WHO to hire. That's like saying, Don't pay $8 for a radio from Walmart when the $50 radio from GE is likely made in the same country and possibly even in the same factory!

What are the criteria for deciding who is the right copywriter to hire? How do you find the right copywriter?

Wow, answering those points and questions won't be easy, but hopefully I can lay out some guidelines.

First, having the writer know the product or service can be either an advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation. In cases like bills, it's probably an advantage since what I understand about his business is it's very targeted and the buyers need someone who speaks their language. In many cases, being too familiar causes you to miss the obvious and potentially confuse the reader.

For the sake of pulling a random example, let's use a window installer. I as a visitor may know a lot or a little about windows. Most likely, very little except that I need them and want a good energy efficient solution, and properly installed. An insider writing their own content is prone to use terms they take for granted that mean little or nothing to me. What is important to the site owner probably won't be important to me. An outside perspective will help screen that out and result in a visitor focused site rather than something that only pleases the site owner.

As for how to distinguish one writer from another, the rules of effective copy are pretty finite. Each type of buyer is motivated by a limited number of factors. Once you determine the one(s) that apply to any given situation, the rest is just information gathering. I have often written on subjects where I know little to nothing in advance. As long as the person I'm writing for is an expert in what they do, then we're covered.

Basically, you can review the past work of any writer and easily determine their skill level. I think a good test is to look at their work where you know very little and see if it captures your interest and makes sense. Reading something you already understand will not reveal nearly as much about their skill. In fact, you'll be too biased when it hits close to home.

One more important point: although a high price tag does nothing to guarantee the skill level and effectiveness of a writer, the ones with a proven track record will not be cheap.

[vangogh]

But how do you distinguish one from the other?

You do your homework and then make the best decision you can. With a writer you can start by reading samples of their work. That alone should be enough to determine if the person in question has the talent and skill to write.

You spend some time researching what you're hiring. If it's a copywriter spend a few days online learning what you can about copywriting. Read a book on copywriting.

You're never going to know in advance if you hired the perfect person, but it shouldn't be that hard to narrow your choice down a list of a few people likely to be good. You pick one and measure the results. If the results are good you hire the person again. If the results aren't good you look to someone else on the list for your next job.

I think people make this out to be harder than it has to be. Use your best judgement based on some research and accept that you may still make a mistake. Then use the information you now have after one job to make a better decision for the next job.


It's all very well to say, Don't use a writer if they charge $8 per article, but that doesn't tell a business owner WHO to hire.

Helping people know who not to hire certainly helps them decide who's a better choice. There's no simple recipe to follow to say who everyone should hire. You have to do your best and make a judgement call. With the $8 an article writers read something they've written. It should be pretty easy to understand why you wouldn't want to hire that person. Also with a few hours of research it shouldn't be hard to discover that at that price you're hiring a content mill with a business model to produce quantity at the exclusion of quality.

[billbenson]

Wow, answering those points and questions won't be easy, but hopefully I can lay out some guidelines.

First, having the writer know the product or service can be either an advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation. In cases like bills, it's probably an advantage since what I understand about his business is it's very targeted and the buyers need someone who speaks their language. In many cases, being too familiar causes you to miss the obvious and potentially confuse the reader.



In my particular case, Steve, I think the best scenario would be for me or someone with product knowledge to write the copy, then have it edited by a good writer and finally checked by me for technical accuracy. With 4000 or so products, that could be an expensive process.

[KristineS]

If you're hiring a copywriter for a web site or really anything online, one of the things that people forget is not only does the person who is being hired need to be able to write, they also need to understand how websites work and how writing for the web is different than writing for other venues. So that's a good question to ask a potential writer, what websites have you written for in the past, and what do you know about how websites work and writing a web site that converts.

[cbscreative]

If you're hiring a copywriter for a web site or really anything online, one of the things that people forget is not only does the person who is being hired need to be able to write, they also need to understand how websites work and how writing for the web is different than writing for other venues.

So true! That point would also be ideally suited for the copywriting thread (http://www.small-business-forum.net/copywriting/4782-can-anyone-do-copywriting.html) too.

There's an entire industry built around "conversion architecture" because of this. That certainly involves much more than just copy, but knowing how to write and structure web copy is extremely important.

[vangogh]

Yep. There's a lot more thought that goes into creating a successful website than most people realize.


With 4000 or so products, that could be an expensive process.

How many of those products actually sell? I'm guessing a lot less than 4,000. When you present people with more choices it actually reduces the chance they'll make any choice. It's possible that pruning the 4,000 products down to a few hundred would result in more total sales.

[claudiusjaeger]

It's important to find a nexus between a) content expertise, b) quality writing, and c) web marketing savvy.

You need all three to achieve your web marketing goals.

[vangogh]

True. It's rarely if ever one thing that makes for success. It's usually a combination of several.

[christinagilman]

You can have the middle ground: your expertise, that a writer edits and whips into an attractive blog

Based on what it sounds like you need, I think this would be the best option for you. Editing will always be cheaper than hiring someone to create content from scratch.

As far as hiring someone for "cheap" (less than $15 per article), to create content from scratch, I am always leery of this. Maybe that's because I'm a writer myself, and I know the time and hard work that must go into writing a good article. I wouldn't want to post something with subpar quality and associate my company name with it. But you never know, you might find that diamond in the rough who charges way below average and still creates great writing.

[vangogh]

I'm leery of the low cost content too. I'm sure there are some good writers working for such low pay in order to build a portfolio, but most cheap content is pure garbage. A lot of sites right now are playing the game of publish more pages regardless of quality. The idea being more pages leads to more page views leads to more advertising dollars.

I'd rather pay more for quality so at the end of the day I can look at the content on my site and feel proud of it and feel like it contributed something to those who read it. I also think that quality leads to a more loyal audience who'll help you in other ways.

[KristineS]

A lot of beginning writers are told to write anywhere for anything just to get credits on their resume. I've never bought this theory. If you establish yourself as someone who's willing to write for pennies, then it will be hard to ask for a living wage later. I think you have to stand for the quality and value of your work before anyone else does. Personally, I'd want to hire someone who would take pride in their work, and part of taking pride in your work is knowing its value.

[cbscreative]

Me three on cheap writers. If they don't respect themselves well enough to value their time, I wouldn't expect much effort to go into their writing. Since I am also a writer, I know that good writing is much harder than a non-writer can imagine. If a potential client only wants cheap writing, I figure I can always work for their competition. If a writer is too cheap, that's an indication they're probably not much good.

I do seek to give aspiring writers a chance when I see potential. Some projects are better suited for a beginning writer if the goals of the writing don't require fine polishing. There is always a balance, but generally speaking, cheap is a sign of trouble.

[cbscreative]

A lot of beginning writers are told to write anywhere for anything just to get credits on their resume. I've never bought this theory. If you establish yourself as someone who's willing to write for pennies, then it will be hard to ask for a living wage later. I think you have to stand for the quality and value of your work before anyone else does. Personally, I'd want to hire someone who would take pride in their work, and part of taking pride in your work is knowing its value.

I share this same perspective, Kristine, and I often warn newbies to be careful about how they establish their rep. Cheap work begets more cheap work. It's far too easy to get caught in a vicious cycle.

[vangogh]

Cheap work begets more cheap work.

I do agree, however, I also think there are times where working below your value isn't necessarily bad. For example when first starting your career no one will hire you, it could make sense to do a few low cost or even free jobs in order to build a portfolio or to have your name attached to a specific project. There are times where the money you aren't making is realistically a marketing cost.

Of course you can't continue to price yourself below value for long or else you'll find yourself working below what you're worth for a very long time. Cheap will beget cheap, just like you said.

[KristineS]

I think it's more about picking where you work for free. Some people will take any job, just to get the credit. If you aren't getting paid in cash, than you should get paid some other way, in prestige or recognition or in adding a credit to your resume that people will value. I would never say never work for free, as I've done it myself when there was enough good reason, I'm saying more be picky about when and where you work for free, and know why you're doing it.

[vangogh]

Absolutely. I wouldn't suggesting taking any job for free or low pay just to get the job. I think that leads right into keeping you at the low pay. Some examples of where I think it would be ok.

1. Your just starting out and need to build a portfolio and get your name out there.
2. The job is for a prestigious client and will get you a lot of attention
3. You do work for charities and causes you believe in
4. You write for a popular website with an audience matching your target market
5. You write for a website that does well in search engines and they let you link back to your own site

Just a few examples. As long as you think you'll derive enough value from the job even if that value isn't in the form of money you're probably fine working for low pay or for free. You can't do that too much, of course, or you'll brand yourself as the cheap writer.

[cbscreative]

Good points, vg and Kristine. If I implied in any way that you should never work cheap or free, that certainly wasn't my intention, so I appreciate you adding more so no one could mistakingly come to that conclusion. Personally, I'm much more inclined to write for free rather than cheap though. If I write for free, I've given something of value willingly. Writing cheap diminishes the value...at least to me it does so it's a personal thing.

That doesn't mean I don't write for cheap at all though. I have one long term project for a ministry that is priced way below the value. I enjoy doing it and they get to put their funds to other uses. But I also am not looking to take on more of that kind of work. There's plenty of opportunity for writers to do that though.

[vangogh]

I didn't think you were implying that at all. I agree with you here. You're better off not working cheap just to get the job. One of the best things I ever did in my business was to start saying no to people who weren't willing to pay my fee or at least be in the ballpark. I think if you reduce your price just to get the job that becomes the reason people hire you and it's the reason they tell others for why to contact you.

There are always exceptions, of course, and I wanted to point out a few, but even the case of free work to build a portfolio one or two jobs you can point to should be enough to turn the next one into a paying gig.