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Spider
03-18-2011, 08:56 AM
There is a continuing increasing emphasis on blogs, it would seem. More and more search results are turning up blog posts and discussion forum posts. But when one is searching for some authoratative source of information, the last thing one wants is a bunch of uninformed and somethines downright useless opinions from all and sundry.

It seems everyone wants to blog, these days. Experts of all brands are encouraging their followers to blog, even though no-one seems to suggest that one blogs only on stuff you know about. And SEs seem to be rewarding those who blog with better serps positions, regardless of whether the content is useful, useless, stupid or dangerous. The result is, for some subjects, the majority of search results are diseminated garbage.

Does anyone know of a search engine that delivers only stable (infrequently changing) websites and eliminates blog posts and forum posts from its results? Or,...

Does anyone know how one can search for a topic in a major SE and exclude blogs and discussion forum in the results?

Business Attorney
03-18-2011, 11:51 AM
Frederick, I can't answer your question (a search engine that excludes blogs and discussion forums in the results) but I will offer two observations.

The first observation is that I often find the most relevant answers to my questions in blogs and discussion forums. Delivering "only stable (infrequently changing) websites" would mean older, less relevant answers to many questions, excluding the very information I am looking for.

The second observation is that a blog is simply a form of content. Blogging platforms, notably WordPress, have evolved into full-blown content management systems. The inside pages of most newspapers, such as the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune, look like blog posts, complete with comment sections and social networking links. If the search engine excluded websites simply because they were based on WordPress or other blogging software, they would be excluding a large portion of the internet. If they excluded frequently changing sites they would exclude every major media site, including the NY Times, CNET, CBS, ESPN, etc...

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 12:08 PM
If you exclude just Wordpress, you take out almost 20% of the websites in the world. I can't even imagine what that number is if you target all CMS's from open source to proprietary systems. I would imagine you would be in the neighborhood of 50% of the web if not higher. These days seeing a site that is not on or part of some kind of CMS is rare. It's like seeing a CRT monitor on a desk in an office.

Odds are that you frequent or have gone to quite a few websites built on a CMS of some sort and and never knew or could differentiate from a static HTML site unless you saw some kind of "blog" section.
If you give me 5 random sites, I'd be willing to bet in most cases there's at least one if not more that are run on a CMS of some sort, if not Wordpress itself.

I know you like the website TED, What do you think it's run on? A combination of static HTML pages, a few custom scripts and programs, and Wordpress.

The great thing about the web is also the crappy thing about the web...Anyone can publish.
But David is absolutely correct, these days the most reputable companies online are all using some type of CMS. It's just how the web is published these days. The information has evolved from static websites to constantly changing information..and more of it.

If I could compare it, it would be almost equivalent to the transition of information from network news once a day at the same time on all 3 networks, to 24 hour news across the world on many networks.
But just like all of the 24 hour news options out there, you have to choose the information on the web that is right for you.

Having a search engine that delivers that same results everyday, all of the time kind of defeats the purpose of what search engines do. They will return what you ask for. They don't determine who writes better or has the best information, just who matched what you were looking for, and who else thought that this was good information.

SE's aren't human. They can't determine what you will personally like over what someone else will like. The censorship is up to you.

You may try refining your searches a little more to get specific information and bypass all of the "garbage" , using advanced search options, or looking for more specific, reference type directories or professional groups for certain information.
If you use a Search Engine to see what's out there in the world, that's exactly what you are going to get.

Spider
03-18-2011, 05:54 PM
Well, neither of you answered my questions, but thank you for your comments, nonetheless. I fear, however, you have misconstrued my objective.

1. I am not in the least suggesting that all search engines exclude blog posts and discussion forum from their databases - I merely asked if anyone knows of a search engine that does.

2. While there may be many topics of which many people want up-to-the-minute news and opinion, there are also many topics that do not change so much nor so quickly, like history, geography, geological facts, historical data of all sorts, national statistics, botanical information, animal species; and also many people who are looking for facts and data rather than opinion and dialogue. I am not suggesting that one is more important than the other, nor the other more important than the first. But I do think there is room for both - which does not seem to be reflected in the serps currently.

3. Older is not a synonym of irrelevant - older is just older, and relevancy is determined by the user.

4. I didn't mention Wordpress nor any other CMS system, and cannot see the relevancy of content management systems to this topic. I certainly am not "targetting" them nor trying to eliminate them from SE databases. I am simply enquiring if anyone knows of a SE that does not index blogs and discussion forum.

5. I cannot imagine why either of you think I would want to exclude any content of any kind from any search engine. I also asked about how I might filter out certain information from the serps, just as you would filter out pages about cabbages when you are searching for data on tall buildings. That's what search is.

6. Every time you use a search engine, you eliminate a huge percentage of the SE's database. In fact, I don't think there is a single search engine that even attempts to index all of the internet, although some try to index as much of the world wide web as they can.

7. I do agree with you, though, that, "It's just how the web is published these days. The information has evolved from static websites to constantly changing information..and more of it." That was my observation, and this constantly changing information is drowning out the information that does not change. I was hoping someone could tell me how to access the non-changing information that seems to be well and truly buried.

8. I also agree the "censorship" (as you describe it) is up to me, and that is what I asked - without, so far, an answer.


So, interesting as that diversion was...

Does anyone know of a search engine that delivers only stable (infrequently changing) websites and eliminates blog posts and forum posts from its results? Or,...

Does anyone know how one can search for a topic in a major SE and exclude blogs and discussion forum in the results?

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 06:24 PM
No, as far as I know there are no search engines that exclude certain kinds of websites based on which software they are using.

Spider
03-18-2011, 06:42 PM
No, as far as I know there are no search engines that exclude certain kinds of websites based on which software they are using.I am not concerned with the software any particular site or SE is using. The software has nothing to do with either of my questions --

Does anyone know of a search engine that delivers only stable (infrequently changing) websites and eliminates blog posts and forum posts from its results? Or,...

Does anyone know how one can search for a topic in a major SE and exclude blogs and discussion forum in the results?

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 06:52 PM
I am not concerned with the software any particular site or SE is using. The software has nothing to do with either of my questions --


That is exactly what you are asking for. You are asking for it to disallow certain websites based on whether or not there is a blog on it or it is a blog itself.
SE"s aren't human.
How else do you propose that it differentiates between who has a blog and who doesn't?
The only way to do that without having a person actually look at them, is to do it by what kind of software the site is using...and input all 200 kinds of CMS's into the equation to disallow it.

Then people will just come up with CMS's that aren't on the list.
There is no way to do that.

What you are not getting is just about every site is built on some kind of CMS..Whether or not they use it for "blogging" or frequent articles or updates is a different story.

From the kid next door to the White House.

You are asking for a search engine that disallows almost every kind of website on the world wide web.

That's like asking for a cable box that blocks TV shows that use the word "Blue" in their dialogue, or where people are wearing suits.

Now if you just want a search engine that just displays static HTML sites with no scripts, programs, or anything else. Just plain basic HMTL pages...then...nope you still can't get that.
It's the World Wide Web, not the "Get off my lawn" web.
There are no search engines that do what you want. It wouldn't even make any sense to do so.

If you block all CMS's and programming languages that have the ability to build a blogging function... I don't even know what would be left to even show. You would probably consistently get the same 12,000 web sites no matter what you search for. You certainly wouldn't get ANY of your favorite sites or reference sources. NONE.

What about sites that are built with a combination of software like The Department of Defense, Amazon, or The CIA.
Do you know how many sites you would be taking out of the results? Pretty much everything that was built, updated or upgraded in the last 5 years.

vangogh
03-18-2011, 07:53 PM
But when one is searching for some authoratative source of information, the last thing one wants is a bunch of uninformed and somethines downright useless opinions from all and sundry.

What makes information that's not on a blog more authoritative than what is on a blog? Nothing. I run a blog. If I took all the content on my blog and placed it pages that weren't connected to the blog, the content won't get any better or worse. What makes information authoritative is the information, not the medium on which it was published.

Is the Whitehouse blog (http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog) not authoritative because it's a blog? How about the blogs at the NY Times, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, or The Washington Post? Are they not authoritative? Would my blog somehow gain in authority if I stopped calling it a blog and instead called it a resource section?

The problem isn't that blogs are less authoritative than any other content. It's the content itself that determines the value of the content. I've come across blogs that are great sources of information and I've come across blogs that are garbage. I've come across both great information and garbage on non-blogs too.

From a search engine perspective it's makes no sense for them not to include blogs since so much information is now published on something that can be called a blog. Like Harold said the only thing that really distinguishes a blog from a non-blog where a search engine is concerned is the software and even there it's murky since the same software can be used for either blog or non-blog. I can't see any search engine that doesn't show results from blogs being useful to enough people to justify building it.

If you personally don't want to see blogs in your results there are a few things you can try though none will be perfect. Most search engines will let you add negative keywords to your query. Add -blog when you search. It won't remove all blogs, but it should remove some that use the word blog on the page.

If you use Google's Chrome browser they released a personal blocklist extension (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/nolijncfnkgaikbjbdaogikpmpbdcdef) to let you block individual sites from appearing in search results. I'm not sure if after blocking them you can let them back in. You'd also be blocking individual urls so it's not going to block all blogs at once. It's probably better used to just block sites you find low quality in general.

If you search while being logged in to the major search engines and use personalized search, the engines should start learning what you like and don't like. It won't be perfect, but over time you should find the results more to your liking.

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 07:58 PM
If you search while being logged in to the major search engines and use personalized search, the engines should start learning what you like and don't like. It won't be perfect, but over time you should find the results more to your liking.

Good point. You can customize your search by logging in, but you can't do it anonymously..of course that wouldn't be personal, would it ?
I keep forgetting that you don't like to log into anything so you don't see it the same way I do or have any settings.

I think what you are looking for is a filter for crappy information and content. Blog or no blog really has nothing to do with it.

Which software of programming language people use to create a website has no bearing on whether or not the content will be any good. And there is nothing to refute or back up any point that say's differently.

Spider
03-18-2011, 10:21 PM
...If you personally don't want to see blogs in your results there are a few things you can try though none will be perfect. Most search engines will let you add negative keywords to your query. Add -blog when you search. It won't remove all blogs, but it should remove some that use the word blog on the page...Ah! Here we go. Thank you, VG. This actually answers one of my questions.

So, it's just a matter of adding "-blog" or "-discussion" or "-forum" -- or "-anythingIdon'twant" ... Amazing, really!

Thanks, I'll try it and see what happens.

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 10:29 PM
That's not going to remove sites built with software that is used for blogs, just those results where the word "blog" can be detected. And I really don't think that will even work to do what you are looking for.

vangogh
03-18-2011, 10:29 PM
It should help, but it won't be perfect. With negative keywords you're telling search engines not to show sites with those words, but not every blog is going to use the word blog or be linked to with the word blog. Similar for forums, etc. It should help though. Sometimes you may need to try one search and look at the results to determine what words to filter out.

I think there's also a limit on how many negative keywords you can use. Don't hold me to that though.

Spider
03-18-2011, 10:49 PM
That's not going to remove sites built with software that is used for blogs, just those results where the word "blog" can be detected. And I really don't think that will even work to do what you are looking for.Harold, please read what is written - I am NOT - repeat, NOT - trying to remove sites built with software that is used for blogs. I don't care what software is used. I am not, NOT, trying to avoid using Wordpress or any other application. I noticed on another thread recently you said something to the effect that you know I hate Wordpress. I don't hate Wordpress and have said no such thing. I find it cumbersome to use, but it has its virtues. I have two Wordpress sites - one a blog and one a 20-page site. Why would I use it if I "hate" it. Why would I try to avoid any software in search engines when search engines are to find content, not what platform anything runs under?

Give me a break! I try very hard to word my posts so they are not misunderstood, and I feel guilty when I find you spending time writing a 200-word article defending something that is not being attacked.

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 10:53 PM
I keep repeating the same thing because you can't remove blogs from the search results and you keep re-asking the same thing over and over again.
It doesn't matter how you word it.
It can't be done. You can't remove a specific type of website from the serps.
The only way that you can even remotely designate them that way is by the software that they use.
That's the part you aren't getting.
What you are asking is as arbitrary as trying to remove websites that are blue.

Spider
03-18-2011, 10:55 PM
VG, I don't think the personalized search is a practical solution because that locks one into what went before. Sometimes I want facts, and sometimes I want opinion. If the SE learns to personalize my searches as to exclude blogs and discussion forum, how will I get them back when I want to see them?

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2011, 11:01 PM
It wont remove them based on that. It will only return the type of sites based on content, that you like. That content will be on any platform that matches it.
You can't block blogs and forums from search engine results. You can only block specific sites and that is actually blocking them by their URL.
There is no code for "no blogs" because there is no code for "blogs".

Search engines don't designate websites as "blog" or "not a blog" (unless they are in a blog specific directory like Google blogs).
They only see code and "1's" and "O's". To them they are all websites.

You can't filter out types of websites merely by the way they are designed or constructed.

We are the ones that call some websites blogs. There is nothing technical or universal about it so it is impossible to create some kind of filter based on what YOU are calling a blog as opposed to what other people and search engines just call a website.

Blog is a shortened term describing a function or type of web publishing. Using "blog" to describe a website is a slang.
You are trying to filter out something that doesn't exist.

There is no other way to say it.
You can't do it.
Refine your search terms to get the content that you want.
Move the car, not the street.