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Chimpie
10-02-2008, 11:15 PM
I'm looking for a graphic artist to draw two images. First, this is an unpaid request. One image is for me and another is for a friend. My friend's request is easier than mine, just need to have a graphic/image redrawn and some flare added. (see attached)

My image request is to have a 'chimpie' drawn for me to use online (avatars and such).

If anyone wants to take up this challenge please let me know.

Chimp

SteveC
10-03-2008, 12:17 AM
A question, why would you ask someone to work for you and expect nothing in return?

Or if you worked for me for a whole day and I didn't pay you, would you be happy?

Wouldn't be much of a business if they gave away their services to free, especially with absolutely nothing in return.

Chimpie
10-03-2008, 12:22 AM
A question, why would you ask someone to work for you and expect nothing in return?

Or if you worked for me for a whole day and I didn't pay you, would you be happy?

Wouldn't be much of a business if they gave away their services to free, especially with absolutely nothing in return.

If I knew I was working for free up front then yes, I would be happy. After all, I have been a volunteered with the Red Cross for over eleven years. Not once have I asked for compensation. And at the end of the day I'm very happy.

SteveC
10-03-2008, 12:35 AM
So you are a charity, a charity case maybe but not a charity....?

I think you need to get real and pay for the services you want... and not expect others to give you handouts.

Chimpie
10-03-2008, 12:40 AM
So you are a charity, a charity case maybe but not a charity....?

I think you need to get real and pay for the services you want... and not expect others to give you handouts.

Or I can ask if someone is interested in doing it for free. Obviously you're not, and that is fine. Maybe someone else is.

Steve B
10-03-2008, 06:49 AM
I would suggest contacting a graphic arts program at the local college. Maybe you could find a student that is looking for a project.

KristineS
10-03-2008, 09:08 AM
I think Steve B has a great idea. A student who needs projects for a portfolio would probably jump at the opportunity. Building a portfolio can be tough when you're just starting out.

Do you have any colleges near you?

Chimpie
10-03-2008, 09:53 PM
I do, and a very well known digital artist college as well. Graduates usually go on to Pixar and Dreamworks.

My request is a much smaller request. I guess I'm just asking in the wrong place.

Blessed
10-04-2008, 03:06 PM
Try Craigslist - someone in your area might be willing to do that kind of thing - I see a lot of ads like that on our local Craigslist.

mr.ro
10-04-2008, 06:43 PM
I'm with blessed on this one. Try craiglist for this. Not on this forum ppl here are making a living by their businesses. Who would work for free for nothing at all in return

KristineS
10-05-2008, 10:34 AM
People do sometimes help each other out, and there is certainly no harm in asking. You never know what might be possible until you ask.

In this case, it doesn't look like anyone here can do what Chimpie needs, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the question.

SteveC
10-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Of course there is something wrong with the question... he is a complete stranger here and his second post is asking for someone and most likely someone struggling to make a living... to do his and his friends job for free and for absolutely nothing in return.

If you cannot see what is wrong with that... it goes like this, I value your services so much that I want to use them, in fact I want to also give them away to a friend... and I'm not going to pay you anything... because I don't want too and because I don't value your services as much as wanting to pay anything for them.

If you want to trade services for something I don't have a problem with that, if you want to search out services and pay a minimal amount I don't have a problem with that (as long as I don't have to do them)... but you should not ask anyone to work for you for no pay... especially when you want to give one of the things away to someone else.

Chimpie
10-05-2008, 08:15 PM
Complete Stranger? I've been around the SBF.com forums for over two years. Sure, I don't log in and post as often as you but I've made my contributions.

lav
10-19-2008, 07:28 AM
Aaaahhh the old "I want graphic design but I dont want to pay" debate. This is the exact reason why I just may look at getting out of the design industry..... too much work for what people want to pay.... or should i say DONT want to pay

I could imagine the response if I called a plumber and said I want a dripping tap fixed but I dont want to pay for it..... lol

vangogh
10-19-2008, 06:12 PM
I do find it interesting that when it comes to certain online work like design people have no problem asking to get free work. I hear you about the plumber analogy lav. I usually think of it as someone walking into a store, picking up any product, and asking if they can have it for free.

I think part of the issue is that there are so many tools available for anyone to produce a website that most anyone can get a website online. The problem is most of those people can't build a website that will further the goals of a business. Because publishing online is so easy the value of good design is often missed.

The 'will you work for me for free' question used to bother me a lot, but it's easy enough to ignore the question and I know there are still plenty who do recognize the value in design and are willing to pay for it. I also know there are people willing to take on the free work, which can fill the free requests.

In the end you get what you pay for. I know what I can offer to people is worth a lot more than free and I know there are people out there who can see that too. I also know that we all try to get some things free here or there.

cbscreative
10-19-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value. It also makes it easier to help my clients succeed because most of their competitors don't understand the value of good design and go to the cheap designers.

Blessed
10-21-2008, 02:07 AM
I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value. It also makes it easier to help my clients succeed because most of their competitors don't understand the value of good design and go to the cheap designers.

Exactly! I can't tell you how many times I've saved myself frustration by refusing to do free work.

lav
10-21-2008, 04:12 AM
I'm glad there are free and cheap designers. It gives the people who don't know the value somewhere to go. It keeps me from all the headaches that accompany working with clients who don't appreciate the value.I used to feel the same way but lately Im finding more and more people are less interested in what good design can do for them but they seem more interested in "how much?"

Its getting harder to sell, I charge less now than what I did 7 years ago for design work but have to give them a lot more. It seems that "the other guy" is always cheaper and in a lot of cases free. I cant make a living out of designing for free.

I had a guy call me about some design work just last week and I asked him to come over and see my portfolio or I could email him some samples of work Ive done, he responded by saying "I dont care about your portfolio I need to know how much......" This seems to be the attitude across the board these days unless its just in my area

cbscreative
10-21-2008, 01:21 PM
Jason, I can't speak for the attitude in your area, but I do know that the more people have this attitude, the better you will be able to do for your clients. If I can't win them over, I'll gladly help their competitors I can win over take business away from them. Since 80% of all businesses fail in 5 years, and most of those in the first year, I know in advance that I won't win most because they are destined to fail. It's the 20% you want to work with. If you work with the 80%, you lose them when they go under and you then have to find a new client.

Maybe you already know this because it Sales 101, but don't lower prices, raise value. Adobe is not lowering prices for us, Web Premium CS4 is $100 more for both Upgrade and Full than CS3 was. If some fool competitor of mine wants to lower prices when they are paying more for overhead, so be it. I already know that when they go under, another idiot will be right there to take their place anyway. The cycle never stops.

In the past, I've been foolish myself and made many mistakes. I came to realize that the majority is not right. The majority fail, the majority are broke, the majority are slaves to the system, the majority are deeply in debt, and the majority have been deliberately and systematically dumbed down. I have no desire to rejoin them, though I still have plenty far to go to break completely free. It starts with getting your thinking right.

orion_joel
10-21-2008, 09:06 PM
I am glad that it is a fairly similar story in the IT industry, there is almost always someone willing to build a computer cheaper. That means that if i want this business i have to cut my margins to the bone, and effectively give them away the first time i have to do any warranty work should it be needed. At one point i was down to less then 3% margin, to one customer, however the warranty was they diagnose the problem and the parts are replaced. This worked reasonably well as none had any issues. However i would have almost lost money as soon as i did any warranty work on them, even just replacing parts.

So i am happy to work with the fact that there are people out there willing to spend lots of money putting together a good retail presence, and who are willing to cut their margins. Because it means i can focus on the higher quality products and the people who can understand paying more gets you better quality and service. For the people that just want a basic cheap product this is almost always a hard bridge to cross and one that is often easier to avoid then to try and cross.

vangogh
10-21-2008, 10:08 PM
Jason (can we call you Jason or would still prefer lav?) I've seen lots of people more concerned about price than anything else when it comes to design design. Also with so many free solutions it can be hard to compete. I've done two things over the years. One is to figure out how I can do the same work in less time. My rates have gone up, but because I can work faster I can usually offer lower costs.

Part of how I've done this is by becoming familiar with open source applications like WordPress. After working with WP for awhile I can usually code a theme quicker than developing completely from scratch, especially if I can get clients to pick a theme they like as a model. I may not use that solution for everyone, but it's one way to keep costs down for some.

The other thing I've done is not agreeing to work for less than my rates. If the only thing people are concerned about is price I figure I'm better off finding another client.

If you keep dropping prices you get known as someone who works for less and consequently attract more clients looking to pay less. My business started growing the day I started turning away people who weren't willing to pay me for the value I offered. It was hard at first since I really needed the money, but before long the type of people who contacted me changed.

In combination with that I've looked to improve my skills so I can consistently add more value and offer something other designers can't or don't. I'll keep looking for more ways I can add value while at the same time reducing the time it takes to get a project done.

Remipub
11-27-2008, 04:35 PM
I don't get upset or annoyed by people asking for free services, but personally I'd be embarrassed to ask for a valuable service for free. A professional designer makes his or her living by designing. How can they justify working for free for one person, while charging everyone else? Obviously they have to charge a reasonable fee to put food on the table. In addition, it sounds like you're looking for designs for commercial use. How can you possibly expect something for free when you intend to profit from that very thing? If it was for a charity - or some other worthy not for profit cause maybe ... but even those organizations usually pay for such services.

As suggested, if you can find someone who does graphic design for fun - as a hobby, then they may be happy to help. Just don't expect something "professional" for free.

vangogh
11-28-2008, 12:37 PM
One thing with free requests is what exactly is being asked for. In this case I have a hunch chimpie's request is fairly simple and it's the kind of thing that a college student or someone just entering the field might be happy to do for free. It would be different if he were asking for someone to design a full page ad or a brochure.

Of course you have to ask in the right place. Most of the designers here are working professionals. Speaking only for myself you'd need to be a good friend before I'd do any free work and even if you are a good friend you still might have to pay. I tend to prioritize my work and free will definitely fall to the back of the list. When some people have asked me for free work I let them know if they don't mind waiting till I have some free time I'll do the work without pay. Then I tell them that free time may not come for six months or a year.

Watchdog
11-28-2008, 08:16 PM
Ahhh - you could set up your profile on MyShopPass.com and part of the profile is "What I Need" let it sit their, I have some traffic from my links on Biznik and they just might see your profile.