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cbscreative
09-24-2008, 02:17 PM
Now that vangogh's hard drive crash has the members here talking, and to prevent a hijacking of Paul's thread, I thought I would start a discussion on backup. I've long been a backup fanatic, but since I had a major, catastrophic hard drive failure myself a little over two years ago, that taught me to pay even closer attention to my own advice.

My site has long had a section devoted to computer disaster prevention and data backup (www.cbscreative.com/disaster.htm).

That section of my site already contains a lot of detail, but one strategy I use too is backing up important data to a second hard drive. That second hard drive is also bootable just in case I ever need it because of a primary hard drive failure. That alone is not enough. You should have disk or tape backup and test those backups. Depending on the size of your office, a dedicated backup server is also a good idea, especially with more than 4 computers.

Offsite backup is your only real guarantee of a thorough backup strategy. Depending on your needs, they come in all price ranges. One thing I wouldn't trust is a free service. I mean really, what is motivating them to protect my data if they don't charge? That just doesn't seem like a sane thing to do unless your data has no value. And if it has no value, why bother backing it up? Far be it from me to call anyone stupid for using a free backup service, but that just doesn't strike me as an intelligent decision.

So what's your backup strategy? Feel free to share stories of backup disasters too.

Steve B
09-24-2008, 03:14 PM
I use Mozy.

BillR
09-24-2008, 03:31 PM
It depends on what you are backing up...

I keep a 120 GB USB drive with me at all times in my laptop bag. I can't remember the last time I went anywhere without my laptop bag (even though my wife keeps threatening me when I take it on vacation).

I back up all important information from my desktop and laptop to this drive. I also routinely back this drive up to each of those. At any given time 2 of the 3 could die and I should still be okay.

Granted - this is not a good solution for anything like databases, servers, etc.

billbenson
09-24-2008, 06:29 PM
I know a designer who keeps a revolving stock and goes to the bank every day and sticks them in a deposit box. Worst case, she looses a days work in the event of failure, fire or theft. She uses external hard drives. I think a RAID 1 would be a better solution for what she does. That and a hot standby computer, you will not be down.

Mustang
09-24-2008, 07:03 PM
Timely topic for me. I am just recovering from a hard drive crash as well. I used Carbonite as a back up service. I also had backed up to disk from time to time. Carbonite had all but 2 files backed up. Not sure what happened with those 2 files but they happened to be my most important files I need to run my biz. Luckily I had just backed up one of those files the day before the crash. The other file was recovered from a data recovery service.

KristineS
09-25-2008, 03:22 PM
Backing up is one thing I am very bad about doing on a regular basis. I really need to get better about that.

Right now I just need something to do a basic back-up of my system. I don't have tons of data on my laptop at home. Anyone have any suggestions for me?

Steve B
09-25-2008, 03:57 PM
I like Mozy. Online Backup, Data Backup & Remote Backup Solutions from Mozy.com ? Welcome (http://www.mozy.com) (I think).

KristineS
09-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Hmm, that's not a bad price. I'll have to look into Mozy in a bit more detail.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Dan Furman
09-25-2008, 05:59 PM
I like Mozy.

How does this work in terms of hogging resources? I really, really hate stuff that "always runs". I'd rather just have a place I could connect to and it backs up the files I choose.

Steve B
09-25-2008, 08:47 PM
I have it set to run at 3am. I've never noticed it being a problem.

Dan Furman
09-25-2008, 09:48 PM
I have it set to run at 3am. I've never noticed it being a problem.

ahh, so it's not "always on"? Ok, that's cool.

Thank you (I wish their site answered more questions - they could use a copywriter - one who knows this web marketing stuff :) )

orion_joel
09-25-2008, 10:25 PM
I am not the best at doing back-up's, just purely by luck of needing it at different times in different places most of my important stuff ends up in 2 different places. Although there is really somethings that i should look at being a little more on top of ensuring that i have good backups of.

I am just about to go into a planned system upgrade, order the new system today. Not really expecting it to arrive before Monday or Tuesday though so that will give me the weekend to get everything lined up ready to go. Although it will probably take me a week or so before i am hapy that everything is how i want it. I started doing a computer upgrade about 3 years ago, (the current system i have is about 4 and half years old) I never actually got around to making that computer my primary one though. Same with my laptop i had planned when i got it 2 years ago to make that my primary system and still it is my backup system

billbenson
09-26-2008, 04:33 AM
I don't really like using second sources as backup as mentioned by others above, although I'm sure some are good and work well. I'm a one person show, so depending on the importance of downtime, I'd do backups, take them off premise and have a hot standby because I want no downtime.

For a small company with some employees, I'd probably have a central server and do my own backups, keep a revolving stock, and keep an of premise backup except for the last day at the bank.

Thats not to say that 3rd party backup services don't work. I just would never put that in someone else's hands, particularly since its so cheap to do yourself these days.

Steve B
09-26-2008, 05:13 AM
I remember from doing my research on the third party back ups that there were several to choose from - the best choice depended on size of your files. Of course, they only back up data files - I would have a hard time recreating all my program files. Mozy can be set for continuous back-up or, set to back up daily at a certain time. I chose the once a day option at a certain time. It also will ony do the back-up if your computer is idle at the time.

Would this "hot standy" computer have the program files backed up also?

LJLynch
09-26-2008, 09:38 AM
If you have only one or two computers and don't mind spending your time dealing with backups AND you are disciplined enough to actually do it, many of you have proposed systems that will work. I would absolutely recommend that you use an offsite backup service from a reliable company as well.

If you are a bit larger and have a server, then the information that is contained in the original post is right on target. Find a local IT company that provides a business continuity type of solution. I've checked out CBS Creative's website and they are offering exactly what business owners need.

We have an remote backup offering (http://kitechnologygroup.com/remotebackups.asp)as well, which you can read about on our site. This solution not only offers remote backup, but also the ability to virtualize your server on the backup device in the event of a failure. Should both your server and your backup device be damaged, a replacement backup device, with your data loaded from the offsite location will be shipped to you overnight.

Now that we have this solution implemented in our office, I sleep much easier at night!

cbscreative
09-26-2008, 11:28 AM
Linda, in the absence of an intro thread from you so far, let me say welcome aboard. I hope you take advantage of our introduction section to tell us more about yourself and your company. Since I am in Grand Rapids, I'm only about an hour's drive from you.

billbenson
09-26-2008, 06:25 PM
Would this "hot standy" computer have the program files backed up also?

I currently have all the programs I use on two computers and download data from my main computer to the backup computer ideally daily. Realistically, it ends up being about once a week.

Each computer has two hard drives. All programs and the operating system on disk 1. All data on disk 2.

In the event of a computer failure the backup computer is as current as the last backup.

I think when I get my next computer, I'm going to go the RAID 1 approach. That means that I have a mirror image on two disk 2's in my main computer. Computer fails or the hard drive fails, I unplug the mirrored hard drive from my main computer and put it into my backup computer and no data is ever lost. That won't recover from spyware or virus's that got on Disk 2 - the data disk though. That's why a revolving stock of disks makes sense as well as for other things like off premise backup.

At a larger business level the same thing can be done on a server, and in fact many companies do this. Hard drives are pretty cheap these days.

Steve, what do you pay for your backup service?

vangogh
09-26-2008, 07:21 PM
About time I joined this conversaion, huh?

I was actually backed up for the most part as fa as important data is concerned. I have 2 external had drives here, though I'd be lying if I said I was organized about backing up. For some strange reason a couple weeks ago I had a feeling I should back up data and other than info from the last couple of weeks I did have everything important in several places.

It's interesting though the things we (or at least I) forget to backup like profile settings for Firefox and Thunderbird. I hadn't backed up either of those in a long time. It's easy enough to download the programs again. It's another thing to no longer have all your bookmarks and email.

One thing I've noticed in the last couple of years is that when something fails it tends not to be the hard drive. All the contents of my old laptop are currently plugged into my new laptop via USB. The old internal hard drive is now an external drive. Not that you should count on your hard drive not failing. I did have one fail years ago long before I was saving truly important info on any computer.

My new Macbook seems to have a backup program installed by default called Time Machine. It's going to be one of the first programs I get to know as soon as I'm completely running again.

Steve B
09-26-2008, 08:41 PM
Steve, what do you pay for your backup service?

It's $5 per month.

billbenson
09-26-2008, 08:55 PM
Can't argue with the price.

There is really not a right or wrong way to do a backup as long as you have a system that meets your needs and follow through

orion_joel
09-27-2008, 01:43 AM
I think the biggest thing with price of back up services is again do you get what you pay for. I mean in reality you could back-up for the cost of a cd or less then $1, and be fairly safe in knowing it was going to be there when you need it. While $5 may be a good price is it to good of a price for what it is?

I know that i need to look to implement better back-up procedures, and it is the one thing i am going to take seriously now in my planned upgrade. In making use of external drives and separating important stuff from other things so i can do quick back-up's as needed.

LJLynch
09-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Steve - Thanks for the welcome. I found the introduction area and posted there - but obviously not before I posted here. This is the thread that lead me to this forum as offsite backup is a service I am promoting heavily.

Joel - Not only do you need to think about how you are backing up your information, you need to consider what backup services you can offer to your customers and how to make a strong business case to them.

And I think to VanGogh(?), your comments are an argument for backing up everything always. You don't want to have a crash and then find out you missed an important file or folder.

I have some articles out other places about this subject if anyone is interested. They are Protect Your Small Business From Disaster (http://www.squidoo.com/protectmysmallbusiness), Business Continuity Planning For Small Business (http://hubpages.com/hub/Business-Continuity-Planning-for-Small-Business)and Disaster Recovery Begins With a Solid Backup System (http://hubpages.com/hub/Developing-a-solid-backup-system). If you read the first one, you will probably find the other two redundant. Probably time I write something new as I have learned more since I wrote those.

vangogh
09-28-2008, 01:19 AM
Linda I agree about backing up. I know I haven't done as a good a job of backing up as I should all these years. I usually have the most important files in multiple places, but there are so many things you don't think about until it's too late. I've been lucky twice now and think it's better not to press my luck a third time.

I just watched a quick video on Time Machine for the Mac that I mentioned in my previous post. Looks almost too simple. Pretty much a few button clicks and everything will continuously be backed up for you. It also gives you the ability to go back and view your files through time so you can access a file as it was last month or as it was last week.

orion_joel
09-28-2008, 01:46 AM
I agree Linda back-up for business is a very important thing. While it is something that i know i need to do it is also something that i have lacked for quite some time. However i have started looking more seriously at something in the way of a external harddrive solution. The price of These drives has literally crashed since last time i looked i realized today when i had a look. (in AU dollars) When i looked about 6months ago 1000GB drives were going for around $449.00 today when i looked they had one for $191.00.

The question i have does anyone know of software like the Apple Time Machine software for the PC?

Steve B
09-28-2008, 04:41 AM
Just make sure your back-up system can survive a flood or a fire. Having an external hard drive back-up won't help you in those situations unless you move it off site after each back up.

LJLynch
09-28-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm not a Mac, I'm a PC, (sorry), so I'm not very familiar with Time Machine. We use a product from eFolder (http://efolder.net/) that will do an automated backup, both local and remote. They have a reseller program that allows us to brand it and resell it to our clients. This is the product that we recommend to our SOHO type clients that do not have servers. It may not be the cheapest solution out there, but these are people I know and see a time or two a year.

For people with servers, we use the BDR solution that is Zenith InfoTech offers through their partners. They are one of the players in the Managed Services tools area, for any IT people who may not be familiar with the. It is the one I am promoting in the articles I cited yesterday.

vangogh
09-28-2008, 07:59 PM
I'm a Mac for all of six days, which is why I don't know too much about it either. I watched a 5 minute demo video on the Apple site last night shortly before posting above. It looks like an easy solution, but I'll let you know once I actually set things up.

billbenson
09-29-2008, 04:55 PM
Why did you buy a Mac? Don't have a problem with them, just curious.

cbscreative
09-29-2008, 06:52 PM
I often joke that Vista is the best news that Mac has had in a long time. It remains to be seen whether they take full advantage of it, but they now have an incredible opportunity to capture market share.

vangogh
09-29-2008, 07:51 PM
Bill, I've been thinking about it for awhile. As web designer it makes sense to be able to test under as many different OS/browser combinations as possible. I've been using sites like Browsershots for awhile to capture images of how sites looked, but it's not really the best solution.

I knew the answer for me was going to be virtualization software and while you can get the software for any OS, using Parallels under Mac seemed like the simplest solution. In time I'll install Linux (probably Ubuntu) on antother Virtual Machine. I already have the *nix command line options, but it'll let me play around with a Linux GUI.

I also liked that Mac OS X is built on top of FreeBSD, so I get the nice GUI with Unix under the hood. Makes it easy to get used to the OS, while giving me plenty of room to explore.

Other than the above it was part wanting a change. I don't have anything against Microsoft, but I can't say I've ever been crazy about their products either. And do appreciate Apple's design aesthetic. It's way too soon to tell if the decision was the right one, but so far the Macbook has exceeded every one of my expectations. It's easy to see why people become Apple brand evanglists.

Steve I can't say there's anything special about Vista. I have the home premium version, though unfortunately Parellels won't show the aero graphics. I'll have to wait for a future version of Parellels for that. So far I prefer XP, though it's only been a couple days with Vista installed and I haven't really gotten to know it. I can tell they did add more security, which is good, but other than that I'm not really sure what would compel someone to upgrade.

orion_joel
09-30-2008, 12:14 AM
I have been considering Mac myself for some time now,in saying that though it is not something that i have actually considered to seriously. While i have taken time to go and look at the options that are available, i kind of think that the options available from apple are fairly low. At least where i have looked which is maybe half a dozen different resellers. They vary from 2 or 4 different models of laptops and from $1800 to to $4300 in price.

I have just upgraded my desktop (received it this morning) and it came preinstalled with Vista Business. May follow the desktop with an Apple laptop if i can find something that really gets me in their small range.

vangogh
09-30-2008, 02:02 AM
One of the complaints about Macs is the expense. It wasn't an issue for me, since I inevitably purchase high end computers. A computer is too essential for my business to skimp. The Macbook was actually $800 less than the Dell I'd been using for the last few years.

The Dell (Latitude D800) was a great laptop. I was very happy with it and I'm still sad to see it sitting to my side without being able to function, but it was time for something new and I also decided it was time for something different.

billbenson
10-01-2008, 03:51 PM
VG on a different forum a webmaster has been using Linux for years He said he wasn't that fond of Ubuntu. He said he just installed Opensuse 11.0 and really liked it. He also said don't use kde4 which is a link on the page.

When I installed Ubuntu it installed several programs including FF, but I couldn't connect to the internet. I didn't mess with it any further. Another friend installed it and could connect but he had driver problems and went back to windows.

I'm going to uninstall Unibutu and try the other recommendation. I'll let you know what happens. I suspect that the latest version of Unibutu has some bugs as it was just released.

vangogh
10-01-2008, 07:38 PM
I might not go with Ubunto, but at the moment it seems like one of the more popular distros in use, which is why it's my first thought. I may end up installing several different versions of Linux in time.