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View Full Version : Here's A Business Idea with Proposal!



Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 11:49 AM
About the first of the year I'll be setting up a Forum (for a specific business with a large customer/contributor base NOT for business, i.e., nothing to compete with this forum).

And I don't know what I'm doing . . . well . . . anyway, not much. BUT I do know some people who do--the secret to any true success! Right?

VanGogh, SteveC, and Kristine!

They've done it for us. They clearly have a lot of knowledge and experience. We've watched it grow and benefitted greatly . . . and each contributed to a small extent.

So, here's the proposal--

Ask them to write up the considerations, techniques, and methods of setting up a forum for a company or personal use. We could each contribute our experience as forum contributors and users, but the editorial decisions would all be theirs. AND the ownership/copyright would be theirs.

When finished, we would each get a copy with redistribution but not master reprint rights. The 3 of them would have a product they could post on ClickBank or their websites, etc.

Why give them the rights and money? Well, folks, just look at the establishment, structure, and early posts. They provided all the hard work and time to get this forum launched for all of us, all the while Kristine was in the middle of a big move!

Want some of the money? Fine, promote their ClickBank product or join their affiliate program.

Sure, there are other products available, but we are blessed to have 3 people who have done it and know what they're doing. They deserve it.

How should they split the money? THAT is up to them!

So, let the disussion begin!

Paul

KristineS
09-24-2008, 12:12 PM
I know vangogh is a bit out of the loop at present. His old computer died and he got a new one and he's getting things back in order. So it may be a day or so before we see him here.

I'd have to talk to him and Steve before I could make any comment one way or the other.

Dan Furman
09-24-2008, 12:57 PM
I know vangogh is a bit out of the loop at present. His old computer died and he got a new one and he's getting things back in order. So it may be a day or so before we see him here.


I just went through that (mine was planned, though.) Took me a few days at the least.

cbscreative
09-24-2008, 01:24 PM
Thank you, Paul, this will certainly prove interesting. Vangogh is the one with the primary knowledge, especially in setting up and handling the technical side. I too will want to get his input on this, but should take this opportunity to acknowledge him for the credit he deserves. In fact, any reward he gets is very much deserved.

While the old forum was down, I contacted him by email. After a few emails between us, and the lack of response from the owner of the old forum (vangogh offered to help get it back up, and see if he was willing to sell it), we decided that we needed to move fast or the community would scatter and perhaps never be reassembled. Vangogh picked up that ball and ran. I felt more like a supporting role because he did most of the grunt work. The clock was ticking, we both knew it, and vangogh was amazing; he did what needed to be done and did it well.

I can't say enough about his commitment. He was almost solely responsible for moderating the old forum (with limited authority and almost no communication from the owner), and has taken charge here in a way that I marvel at. I've never worked behind the scenes in a forum before this, so vangogh's experience was crucial, and his attitude throughout the process was amazing. I recall he once said that in spite of the fact that he was working much harder here than he ever worked over there, just the fact that he now had authority made it seem like less work.

I have no doubts at all about his commitment to this forum, and I am very, very glad that I approached him with the idea of salvaging what was left of the old SBF. He really cared about that forum, and I know he was frustrated that the owner didn't. He confirmed a lot of what I already suspected when I contacted him. Once it became clear that we needed to start from scratch with a new forum, he stepped up and made it happen.

billbenson
09-24-2008, 01:51 PM
Thats why I always maintain a hot standdby computer. I backup to a second computer about once a week. I have a monitor / mouse / keyboard switch that allows me to switch from one to the other. I can't afford to be down for a day.

There are a few ways you can achieve quick recovery. Backup to an external hard drive is one. RAID 1 Hard Drive is another. A lot of people have a desktop and a laptop. The laptop can act as your hot standby. No matter what, you need to keep a second computer as a backup and it doesn't need to be the latest.

I'm going to buy a new computer within the next 6 months or so. Mine are getting old. I'm not going to buy two identical computers, which is what I did the last time as my older computers still function as a working hot standby.

One other thing I suggest is always have a system with two disks. Use a smaller fast disk for disk 1 with the operating system. Use a regular disk but big for Disk 2. Viruses tend to get into the operating system, not files. Put all of your files ie my documents, Outlook folders etc on disk 2. Do an image backup such as Norton Ghost from disk 1 to Disk 2. It makes Disk 1 crashes or virus / spyware recovery much easier. This doesn't replace a backup computer though!

Just my 2 cents.

-------------------------------------

So now that Pauls thread was thoroughly hijacked, can you give us a little more info on the theme of your forum? Something unique happened here, in that people were very upset with the management of the old forum, the load that was put on Vangogh, and a high level of respect for a lot of the members who felt they were getting screwed. Thats not an opportunity that presents itself very often.

cbscreative
09-24-2008, 02:19 PM
OK, to keep this thread from derailing off course, I started a thread about backup strategies and stories of backup disasters:

Computer data backup thread (http://www.small-business-forum.net/managing-your-business/446-computer-data-backup.html#post5169)

Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 02:34 PM
I'd have to talk to him and Steve before I could make any comment one way or the other.

Wail, yew jus' talk all yew like, Ma'am. That's always a lady's prerogative, Ma'am. ;)

I'll help y'all market it . . . for no charge, even. :D

KristineS
09-24-2008, 04:08 PM
I definitely have to agree with Steve, Vangogh is the guiding force behind this forum and has done a large share of the work. We would be nowhere without him.

theGypsy
09-24-2008, 04:43 PM
am lost a tad.... so we're talking about creating a; 'How to start a forum; foru business of fun' - kind of guide?

While it might make some reasonable link bait (if given away for free) - I am not so sure there would be much of a market for it really....

Is that the concept? Or am I spaced out once more?

Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 05:44 PM
I definitely have to agree with Steve, Vangogh is the guiding force behind this forum and has done a large share of the work. We would be nowhere without him.

That's great, Kristine. You 3 started the drive and the rest of merely came off the bench. I'm sure VG does know the nuts and bolts, but you and SteveC did a lot of the early heavy lifting. It's the combined knowledge and experience that are so valuable in such a situation. Y'all decide how things will work amongst you.

It is an apparent need in the marketplace. Needs will be filled by someone. Why not you, VG, and SteveC? I'm happy to help with the writing, editing, and marketing, but I insist that it be the product of you 3.

Thanks, again, to each of you! :)

Paul

Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 05:57 PM
am lost a tad.... so we're talking about creating a; 'How to start a forum; foru business of fun' - kind of guide?

That's my thought, Gypsy. The idea is a "How To on starting and running a forum whether for fun only or for profit" product.


While it might make some reasonable link bait (if given away for free) - I am not so sure there would be much of a market for it really....Is that the concept? Or am I spaced out once more?

It would likely be for those who already have a website business whether for interest or for profit. The advantage to the web owner is the opportunity to build the affinity bond--the relationship--with the visitors/contributors/customers.

The value of a forum? Look at how similar venues have grown in the 2.0 world, e.g., Twitter, Facebook, SBF, etc.

Just a thought about a need that seems in need of being met.

Paul

theGypsy
09-24-2008, 08:41 PM
Well there's the rub... this is old hat my good man... social networking 1.0

Being a bit of a forum hound myself, old dog..old tricks, I have noticed most of the boards across the web are slower than they used to be. Sure, the top dogs in certain niches are still surviving, but IMO forum use in general is down. Surely the rise and lure of social networking 2.0 has something to do with it...

Once more, I am a fan of boards... just not sure there is a market as much as there would be for things such as 'Social Networking for Business' 'Blogging for Customer relations' etc... those kind of things are in... Forums? Not so sure if that angle would really play.

Sure, dress anything up and it'll sell, just not sure there is a mainstream popularity for peeps setting up forums..... I know a lot of peeps that have tried getting boards to fly the last few years... harder and harder all the time.

Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 11:12 PM
Well there's the rub... this is old hat my good man... social networking 1.0

Perhaps it is for net hounds.

I'm talking about a niche that uses the Internet, which has a specialized interest, but generally no interest in other elements of the net.

Relationship building has no cycle.

There may not be a sufficient market for it. It's something I would find very useful and figure there are other people who would also.

Paul

billbenson
09-24-2008, 11:14 PM
Strikes me that blogging and other social media is:

Article
Opinion

A forum is:

Question:
Answers.

Those are pretty different animals, although there is a ton of overlap. Many forums have blog sections as well. I've never run any type of social media site, I have used forums extensively, and occasionally look at a couple of blogs. Most of the blogs I look at were probably posted on webmaster forums.

Given the back and forth that is possible on a forum, a forum has more credibility. I'm talking in general, not Matt Cutts blog which obviously has credibility.

IMO this forum ramped up for a couple of reasons. A big one was people were just plain pissed (excuse the French) that the old forum was allowed to self destruct and Vangogh was left with all the responsibility and no authority. The good thing is it wasn't just the web people who followed. There are a number of people that followed even though the moderators expertise is on the web side primarily. There are some people here with good legal, accounting, and business background including retail.

While a blog does have commentary, it doesn't allow for question and answer. I suspect, for a forum to succeed, it needs to allow for a quality back and forth exchange of information, which the other mediums just don't have.

vangogh
09-24-2008, 11:25 PM
Just thought I'd give a quick reply, mostly to subscribe myself to the thread, say a quick thanks for all the compliments, and to let everyone know I'm still connected to the internet if not maintaining a big presence for a day or two.

I'll respond a little more to the initial idea tomorrow. Hope you don't mind the wait.

Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 11:47 PM
While a blog does have commentary, it doesn't allow for question and answer. I suspect, for a forum to succeed, it needs to allow for a quality back and forth exchange of information, which the other mediums just don't have.

I think this is a very good analysis of the motivational qualitative differences between the 2.

To explain a little further--

The forum will be for a large specialty cooking group. Not simply cooks and recipe exchangers, but people with specialty cooking as a serious avocation who spend multiple thousands of dollars annually on courses, equipment, and cooking related travel, as well as professional chefs.

A forum will allow several subsets of this niche to share ideas, experiences, techniques, etc., as well as recipes. Many of the techniques are best shown to others using videos.

The profile of these people shows that they have this passionate interest and the income to support it. They use the Internet primarily for email, research, and feeding this cooking interest.

The owner of this business has a list of thousands built over a number of years. He produces some well-known, high-end cooking schools, cooking travel expeditions, and online cooking schools.

He has had a number of requests for more things that would allow his followers to connect with one another and with him. Yep, it's a ready-made bird's nest on the ground. BUT he has spent many years working to build it. It's now becoming a family business.

It's really not an issue of whether or not the forum will succeed, it's just a matter of doing it properly to fill the need. It will be to develop the community into a more cohesive group who give and take with more direction to the momentum.

Paul

billbenson
09-25-2008, 01:39 AM
Are you a chef Paul, or well studied enough to moderate or manage such a forum? Liking to cook, that is the sort of forum that I would lurk on given some qualified posters.

Paul Elliott
09-25-2008, 08:44 AM
Are you a chef Paul, or well studied enough to moderate or manage such a forum? Liking to cook, that is the sort of forum that I would lurk on given some qualified posters.

No, Bill, I'm not a chef. I do love to cook and have done a fair amount. I understand some of the chemistry of cooking and baking, the use of spices and seasonings, textures, healthy eating, and how to wash the dishes. ;)

I'm helping with the company's marketing and managing the development of programs in different areas than those they've previously gone.

My approach is to mine a company's existing assets. I usually focus on their lists: work to activate the members, give them something, and involve them giving reasons to get involved. This is a gift, since company has already had a number of requests from customers for such an opportunity as a forum.

Yes, I will be lurking on other similar forums to learn those ropes.

My first job will be working with their IT people to get the software selected, installed, and configured. In this territory I don't need to know how to do it, but I will need to be a devil's advocate long enough to know whether it's been done correctly. I will not only need to know what features are needed but what NOT to do.

The major categories for discussion will be estabished by the owner. We will pick some of the leaders in his organization and in his groups. Then, we'll have to seed the forum sections, develop the buzz, and manage the day-to-day process.

At least initially it will not be open to people other than his established customers. It will gradually be opened to others as a part of his marketing net.

I clearly understand there are things I haven't thought of. We'll run into things we hadn't expected, etc., etc. I've simply got to plan, organize, launch, and manage it until it develops enough momentum. I'll need to sheperd the process and moderators to ensure that things remain helpful, productive, and vibrant, while pruning any tendencies to wander, argue, flame, etc.

Thanks for your thoughts and all the others that have been contributed.

Perhaps there isn't a sufficient market for such a "hot to" product. One thing that will work fortuatively for this company is the shift to online classes, services, products, and other Internet-based features as people travel less and want to do more from home or their places of business.

My sense is that businesses with changes in customer patterns, such as this business, will need to add a forum to their marketing mix. This is outside the realm of current forum usage and users.

Paul

vangogh
09-25-2008, 11:11 PM
Paul, I'm not sure how much of a market their would be for a 'how to build a forum book' right now and I know I wouldn't have the time to work on one, but I'm still happy to share some thoughts.

Obviously there's the technical side, which is about finding the write forum software for your needs or developing the software on your own. Before setting up the forum here, I tested out a handful of different forum applications. I joined a few forums just to see what they were like on the inside and installed a couple to play around with. In the end I came back to vBulletin. At the moment it really does offer the most in terms of what your forum can do.

Along with the choosing the software there's understanding how it works and how to set up. I've been moderating and admining forums for awhile now so was able to use what I'd learned, but mostly I just went through every option on the admin side one by one and decided what I thought was the best set up.

The technical stuff is one thing. Ultimately what makes a forum successful is the community formed by the people who visit. One of the hardest things to do when starting a forum is attract the initial group of people who will help form your community. In our case we were a bit lucky since the community already existed and simply needed a home.

Forum leaders (admins, moderators, and key members) help guide and shape the direction of the forum, by example. Staff naturally deletes spam, but part of that is defining what is and isn't spam. Sometimes it's not very clear cut.

Forum leaders have a goal of nurturing the community as well. I think many forums miss this and see moderating as all about spam, but in truth forum leaders are there to help the community grow to its potential. I've seen many forum owners spend little time on their own forums, which I think is a mistake. I think they start to see their forum as something that mostly runs itself, which in a sense it does, but still there are issues the owners need to deal with. I can tell you that it's frustrating for forum staff when owners don't check in and no one can really make a decision. Owners don't need to be the most active members, but they do need to check in weekly.

You have the same issues marketing a forum as you do most any site. You're probably a little more concerned with people sticking around and interacting with a forum than you might be with a static site. A big part of convincing people to join and participate is the quality of the discussion already taking place.

In a nutshell you need someone to set up the technical, build an initial community of active members, and then nurture that community and help guide and shape the discussion. Add the usual marketing you do for any site, add water, and grow.

Paul Elliott
09-26-2008, 12:31 AM
VG, thank you very much for your thoughts, experience, and observations. I will put many of these in my Letter of Agreement with the owner.

Even there is already a large list of interested members developing and growing the relationships will be paramount. I understand this and will be working diligently on it. It's one of those long-haul elements of the project.

I'm sure I'll be picking your brain as I get the project started.

Thanks, again.

Paul

theGypsy
09-26-2008, 10:48 AM
Now, what might have a market... and is likely a better 'angle' is;

'Building communities for mining qualitative research'

There is a strong market for this approach and many of the larger corps are using private communities for just this purpose. Some have even shown product development life cycles cut in half.

It's all about the angle - calling it 'forums' brings visions of days gone by and really is akin to talking about 'Blogging for business' - old markets that are saturated. Now, approaching it as - Building social networking sites for business intelligence - works much better.

One of the un-mined areas is qualitative research more-so than primary and secondary conversion metrics.

My point is that taking a 'How to build a successful forum' angle won't get much traction IMO.

Test it out.... write a post about 'How to build a forum' and another called 'Using social networking for qualitative research' and see which get's more interest.... I can tell you that the buzz-word alone (social networking) will bring the latter post more peeps... WHy? It's NEW school not old... and both posts would be about forums/communities.... just a different angle...

And don't take my youthful hippiness as a sign of anything... I am 42 and born of the offline B&M world... I love forums...they're just not sexy anymore - I am an old dog, just trying to learn new tricks all the time... forums = OUT - Social networking = the new forum

Same crap...different pile

vangogh
09-26-2008, 12:38 PM
That's a good angle to take and maybe the most overlooked one too. I think it applies to all social communities as well and not just forums.

I've mentioned it a number of times, but I think a successful business is about finding a community, listening to what they want and need, creating something to fill that want or need, and then make sure the community knows about. That's very simplified, but basically that's what you do.

The mining qualitative research part is all about the listening to the wants and needs of the community.