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View Full Version : Let's talk a little bit about money



Spider
08-06-2008, 11:11 PM
Let's talk a little bit about money. What is money to you? Let me invite each of you to tell us what you think about money right now - not what you want it to do for you in the future - what does it do for you now? What does it do *to* you? How does money make you feel? Do you have enough? How does that make you feel? If you answered that you don't have enough, why don't you have enough?

What problems do you encounter with money? What difficulties arise because you have enough/don't have enough? What is the cause of you having enough/not having enough?

Try to be truthful in your answers. Don't write what you think you *should* feel or what you think others want to hear. Tell us truly what you think, what you see, what you feel.

orion_joel
08-07-2008, 12:05 AM
I think that i have a very unique perspective of money, to what some other's may have. This comes from the job that i have to supplement my business income, I work for a Cash in Transit company as a processing coordinator.

Money in it's physical form means absolutely nothing to me. It is dirty, and just bits of plastic and paper, with no meaning but what it put on it by society.

However when you get past the physical item called money and what it can do when put to proper use, it is one of the prime thoughts at the front of my mine. I do not think that i have enough money, because i can see what i am able to do with the money i currently have and can see that i could do much more with additonal money, not just to help myself, but to help others and to improve my knowledge that i can impart to others.

For me right now money is a third supplemental income, it offers me currently a small interest income, that helps supplement my business and work income and this is something i think that everyone could benefit from know more about how to improve there financial position by making good use of money.

KristineS
08-07-2008, 08:21 AM
I think, for me, money is freedom. If I have enough money saved and can meet my bills I can pretty much do what I want.

Money used to be a great source of stress for me, but over time I learned how to manage it properly and now it isn't a problem. I have enough to meet my billls and have a few luxuries and I'm happy about that.

I think the only problem that I have with money is trusting that I'm managing it wisely and that it will be there when I need it.

Spider
08-08-2008, 05:47 PM
Here's what money means to me.

There are two basic elements to business - labor and money. Without labor, money is useless; without money, labor achieves very little. Everything else is achieved by a combination of these two base elements.

If you consider labor a tool and treat your workers as if they are tools, you will likely lose them. You will drive them away to where they are appreciated more highly. It's the same with money. Treat money like it is a tool and you will lose it, or at least fail to aquire it to the degree you could. You will drive money away to where it is treated better.

You could argue that your workers mean nothing to you, that you have no emotional attachment to them, that they are a means to an end, that you use them to achieve your purposes, that you despise them, that they frustrate you, and other negative feelings and thoughts about them. But do you think that would show in your attitude towards them and when dealing with them? Some workers would remain with you because they feel they have no choice, but the best and brightest would surely leave.

Many people use the same comments to describe money, and the same applies. Treat money that way - without consideration, without appreciation, without attachment, despising it and letting it frustrate you - and you will drive money away. It may pass through your hands but little will remain.

Money, to me, is input. Money doesn't seem to be much like the backhoes and cranes and hammers and screwdrivers I am familiar with as tools. Money could be a resource, but it doesn't seem to bear much similarity to the concrete and lumber and steel with which I am familair as resources, or the providers of such materials who can also be considered a resource.

Money is a servant, in the most honorable sense, as a respected and appreciated employee. Money evokes in me the same emotional expression as I would hold for a faithful and expert servant. We work together, trusting each other, expecting the best from each other, giving the best, expressing gratitude for each others gifts and talents.

I have money to invest and money to live on. As long as I am producing something with my money, I feel productive. As long as I have some money sitting idle, I have more than enough. As long as I have more than enough, I feel rich and comfortable and maintain peace of mind, the ultimate gift I give myself.

Any others care to comment on what money means to them?

vangogh
08-09-2008, 01:48 AM
That's an interesting perspective.

I guess money to me is also freedom to a degree. I think it means peace of mind in that having $X means I know I'll be able to pay the bills for the next Y months or years.

It's funny though because the freedom and peace of mind are juxtaposed with the need to work next month or year to pay the bills and afford something I might want and I don't have the desire not to work. I enjoy what I do. Maybe the freedom is in knowing I don't have to work and that the work is my choice.

orion_joel
08-09-2008, 02:15 AM
I find that there are some quite interesting perspectves, i think that the biggest thing for me, is not the earning of money, but more that the money itself is earning more money for me. When the money itself can earn enough for me to pay the bills next month and supply a small surplus then i will feel rich because, Return on cash you already own is the only true passive income that i have been able to find.

vangogh
08-09-2008, 02:42 AM
That's where I'm hoping to get. I'm also trying more to look at money in terms of ROI in everything I do. The return doesn't specifically have to be money. It could be my own enjoyment, but I'm trying to not spend money frivolously without the return.

One thing I used to do was skip money altogether. If I was going to make a purchase say a book or a cd or a meal at a restaurant, instead of thinking this costs $20 or whatever I'd think about how many hours I had to work to make that $20 and decide if what I was buying was worth that many hours of my time. Was it worth going into my job for those extra hours in order to buy something.

It was interesting how many things I decided not to buy when I thought of it more directly in terms of hours of work than a piece of paper or plastic in my pocket.

orion_joel
08-10-2008, 01:30 AM
Funny you mention that particular perspective of looking at things Vangogh, i put a little time in not that long ago when writing an article, about what it really costs to own a car. I worked out over a 5 year period, it would cost on average for a car worth $25,000 about $30+ per day to own and run that car (there was a bit more background in the article) but i compared this myself really having to work the first 2 hours at work each day just to get to work. Which funny enough is followed by the next 2 hours to pay the tax on what i earn.

I think the key though is not to really have to look at things from this perspective, but more so to find ways that you can increase what you are earning per hour, so that these expenses are taking less of your time to earn the money for it. I realize this may sound more difficult, however it comes back a lot to if you make $20 an hour, and that is what it costs for a dinner out, how can you increase what you earn per hour so this dinner out does not seem like so much of your time.

In businesses where your time is linked to your income this is hard, however most businesses would find there is something however small it is that can be done or sold, that can make money that does not require X hours to complete. so the post does not go on to long, a quick example might be someone that does web development, gets a reseller hosting account and starts selling web hosting, the time taken for set up a hosting account should be minimal, and means the average sale value of a client should increase and is generally something they will make money from with a unconnected time factor.

P.S. If you are unsure of what may be something that you can add to your business that may be able to add income without a big investment in time, please send me a PM and i will see what i can do to help you come up with something, while there are some areas that i may not be able to help with i will do what i can to help.

Spider
08-10-2008, 09:20 AM
One of the things that slips in without us even realizing it is Limiting Beliefs. In fact, everything we believe limits us in some way. Sometimes this is good - I believe that crossing the road is dangerous so I proceed with caution, but if I believe, as VG-Steve seems to, that my money should be spent only when there is a good return, I limit my freedom to spend - and thereby, limit my freedom to receive.

They say the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. I believe this is true because the rich feel capable of spending freely and reap the benefit of that by receiving freely. And the poor, because they find it necessary to limit their spending, also limit their receiving.

I find I have been following a path similar to VG, though. I decide whether I would prefer to see the money in my bank account or whether I would prefer to have the object in my hand. Looking at it like that, one can see clearly how limiting it is to believe that money is finite. If one can believe that money is infinite, the limitations start to fall away, meaning freedom grows. And with it, riches. That has been my experience.

vangogh
08-10-2008, 02:19 PM
This is turning into a great thread with some interesting ideas about how we all think about money.

@Joel - In business I'm always looking for ways to increase the rate I earn. Sometimes that means figuring out how to do a task quicker so I can take on more work in the same amount of time. Other times it's in understand how I can ultimately get a greater returning for the same investment of money.

For example I can charge $X for a custom WordPress theme. I can't charge the same amount for a WP theme, but I can resell it many times over and ideally make more than $X over time. It's more work developing and supporting the theme, but in the context of $/time it scales better.

@Frederick - That's a great point about limiting beliefs. It's a trap that's easy for all of us to fall into at times. One of my guiding principles in life is that everything is possible. Nothing is impossible. You may not know how something is possible at the moment, but that doesn't make it impossible.

For a very simple example when I approach learning a new piece of software I just start using it and at some point think it would be nice if the software could do something. I assume it can and then look for how. Almost always I find how in the help files or through a search engine and often in a small amount of time.

Wealth isn't really finite. It's something that flows in and out of the economy. A big part of business is making sure enough of it flows your way so you can make use of it to grow.

Spider
08-12-2008, 10:37 PM
...Frederick - That's a great point about limiting beliefs. It's a trap that's easy for all of us to fall into at times. One of my guiding principles in life is that everything is possible. Nothing is impossible. You may not know how something is possible at the moment, but that doesn't make it impossible.
For a very simple example when I approach learning a new piece of software I just start using it and at some point think it would be nice if the software could do something. I assume it can and then look for how. Almost always I find how in the help files or through a search engine and often in a small amount of time.
Wealth isn't really finite. It's something that flows in and out of the economy. A big part of business is making sure enough of it flows your way so you can make use of it to grow.Asking yourself how you can do something is a tremendously empowering question to ask, Steve. It's easy to forget that thinking preceeds everything and what is thinking but internally talking to ourselves, and in that talking to ourselves we are constantly asking questions. Unfortunately, for many, these questions are of the variety - "Why does this always happen to me?" "How come she got promoted and I didn't?" "Why can't I do this?" All very disempowering questions.

If we can change all our self-questioning to empowering questions - like, "How can I accomplish this?" "What can I learn from this?" "Where is the opportunity in what just happened?" - we would improve our status and our successes by 100 times, at least.

"Nothing is impossible" is a wonderful phrase to carry around with you. You make it sound like it is your Personal Motto.

vangogh
08-12-2008, 11:01 PM
Absolutely. I've watched people focus so much on what they can't do and guess what they end up not being able to do something. It's the mindset. If you tell yourself you can, you can. If you tell yourself you can't, you can't.

orion_joel
08-13-2008, 02:14 AM
Spider, what you say here about changing the way that you think, is very very true and did help me in one of the situations you mention. Where someone got promoted ahead of me.

I do admit that she had been with the company longer and did have more experience, however only worked part time over the full time i worked. This taught me a lesson, i am not fully sure what the lesson exactly was, however from that time i made sure i did everything i could to make myself the only possible candidate the next time this position came along. Although i did not have the position i took on doing anything that would normally be consider to be within that position that i could within the role that i had, which was only a limited frame set, but it showed that i was willing and more then able to expand outside the role i was in and not afraid to make a decision.

cbscreative
08-13-2008, 12:49 PM
This is an interesting discussion indeed. Many of the comments here remind me of truths that I have spent years either learning or learning better. "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he," as Solomon said thousands of years ago, and he is the richest person to have ever lived. Imagine being so wealthy that it takes 154,000 people 13 years to build your house.

I would have to look up the 154,000 to make sure it's completely accurate, but I know it was somewhere around that number.

Spider, your comment about money being a servant is very true. It's a great servant but a horrible master (I didn't make that one up but it states the point very well). Money itself has no personality. It is neither good nor evil. Many people believe that money changes people. I strongly disagree. Money does expose people though. Once you have enough of it to do anything you want, the real you will show through.

As for your question about having enough, no I don't. I never will because I always want to grow, always want to improve, and always want to accomplish more. I am content, but not willing to sit still. I believe in being blessed to be a blessing. What you believe, and what words come out of your mouth will determine your destiny. And it is certainly true that you must give in order to receive.

Spider
08-14-2008, 09:32 AM
...As for your question about having enough, no I don't. I never will because I always want to grow, always want to improve, and always want to accomplish more. I am content, but not willing to sit still. I believe in being blessed to be a blessing. What you believe, and what words come out of your mouth will determine your destiny. And it is certainly true that you must give in order to receive.I can assure you that the feeling of "having enough" is very liberating. I certainly recommend it. And it can be easily acquired.

I recommend it because I have found that when one is in that state of "having enough," money flows much more easily - in and out. It's like a restrictor has been removed from a waterpipe. And I also believe that the more money that passes through my hands, more of it will stay.

cbscreative
08-14-2008, 11:08 AM
I think I know what you are getting at, Frederick, and I agree. As for content, yes, I am content, yet I know better days are ahead and expect that. When you say the feeling of having enough is liberating, you are probably referring to things like not needing a particular job, client, or project. If people sense that you need something from them, they tend to take advantage, and it undermines confidence. When you have enough, you attract more, and avoid a lot of the frustrations that go with being "desparate" or needy.

KristineS
08-14-2008, 12:16 PM
I have to agree with this. I used to be very anal about money. I was always afraid I wouldn't have enough. Then I went through a period where an employer and I parted ways and I was unemployed. I didn't have a lot of money at that time, but I had enough to meet my needs. I also learned that I could be very resourceful if the need arose. After that I didn't worry about it anymore. I believe I'll always have more than enough to meet my needs and allow me to live the life I want to live. It is a very liberating feeling.

Evan
08-14-2008, 10:29 PM
Money is good for a few drinks.

phanio
01-19-2009, 07:56 PM
So what I get from these posts is that there is money and there is financial freedom. Does money buy financial freedom? Can financial freedom come from just living differently?

Very hard in this world not to think about money. Everything costs something. And, if you don’t have something your neighbor does, its can make you a bit envious – it does me and I not that materialistic.

It me, money is just a necessary evil. I wish there were a better way to show (outwardly) what we are all worth – really worth. You never know, a homeless person with little stress and no cares – may be the riches of us all compared to the person who has to have it all just to make himself feel better about himself.

I sometimes wonder if the world of an autistic person is better then what we live in. There answer to a question like; “What is money to you?” may be simply answered by; “What is money?” Having no concept of something would mean you don’t need it. I would like a world where you don’t NEED money. – kind of like a Plato’s Republic idea.

Just my thoughts

vangogh
01-19-2009, 08:05 PM
Can financial freedom come from just living differently?

Theoretically I suppose it can. You'd have to find some land where you could hunt and farm and gather. And you'd need to be able to find shelter, etc. Nowadays I don't know f that land really exists though I'm sure you could certainly hide out somewhere and do all the above. Technically I would think someone owns every parcel of land on the planet at this point.

But yeah, you can lower your expenses. I did it for years and greatly reduced how much money I needed to live.

To me the best way is a balance. Live within your means and work enough to get those means. If you want to live better then you need to work a little harder. If you don't want to work so hard you have to be willing to give up a few things.

Spider
01-20-2009, 08:56 AM
Can financial freedom come from just living differently? Financial freedom comes from thinking differently. Thinking differently will probably lead to living differently, but it's the thinking that precedes any change.

I heard of someone who felt decidedly unfree because his definition of financial freedom was earning $4 million a year and he was only earning #2 million a year. He didn't feel financially free, and, in fact, was at that time getting a little frustrated because he had been at $2 million for a couple of years without having been able to increase his earnings. I'm sure there are a few people here who would feel wonderfully free if they were earning $2 million a year.

It's all in the mind (and the size of the mortgage, maybe!!)

But this describes a "downward" spiral. ("Downward" as in less money, lower numbers.) For an Upward move, more money is needed. And that would require a change of thinking, too. I believe it is one step beyond the old saw - If you tell yourself you can, you can. If you tell yourself you can't, you can't. Telling yourself you can is not enough. One must take the next step, assume you can and ask, "How can I do this?"

The subconscious has an uncanny knack of answering the sell-imposed questions, so make sure you ask empowering question, not disempowering questions.

huggytree
01-20-2009, 05:32 PM
back when i worked for someone else i worried about money all the time. i had headaches a few times a week. i never was the type to live paycheck to paycheck, but when we had each of my kids we owed $4,000 each time and i always tried to skimp to pay it back instead of taking it out of the bank..other than when i buy a new car i never like to take anything out of the bank..i was obsessed with money constantly and worried..

now i own my own business and make more than i dreamed i would...when i want something i buy it (i dont want much, so this one is easy) and when i do buy something i buy high end....its easy to forget how it used to be....its nice not to worry anymore...

when i sell my services and people are shocked that their remodeling project is $5k or $10k its harder and harder for me to feel their pain....i have to stop and think that the average income is like $40k right now and thats a 2 income family...spending 1/4 of their income to remodel or add a bathroom just on the plumbing IS Extreme....but in reality its just what it really costs to do it right...i find it harder and harder to feel what the common man feels when it comes to money...im not rich, but we are doing quite well... I feel as a business owner i need to constantly remind myself what it used to be like.

Everything i buy or do i always think of how many hours it will take to pay for that..i dont think i used to do that as much when i worked for someone else...

Having money is great...i hope to always have enough

orion_joel
01-20-2009, 06:29 PM
I try not to define financial freedom as a figure that i am aiming for, but more of a continual improvement. I don't want to spend the next 20 years wanting to me making $1 million a year. I would much prefer to spend each year, working towards improving my level of income, and financial position by a reasonable level, if not slightly above reasonable. But to be always improving.

Blessed
01-21-2009, 11:12 PM
This is an interesting discussion and I'm late in coming to it... but anyway - to me, money is simply a tool, financial freedom is having enough of it that I don't have to worry about setbacks and knowing that I can earn more if I need it.

Debt is like a ball and chain around my feet keeping me from being free - if the debt is small enough that whatever it is associated with is something that I can sell to pay it off if necessary (i.e. my mortgage) I don't stress about it, but if the debt is thousands of dollars on credit cards for purchases I couldn't afford to pay cash for it is very stressful. So now we've learned that lesson, we don't have any more credit cards, we're getting close to having them all paid off, our most recent vehicle purchase is almost paid off and we have $25k-$40k equity in our house (depending on how bad you want to believe the market is) so if we sold our house we could be debt free the next day and have some money left in the bank. We need to save for the future, but we're well on our way to being able to start saving some serious money - we've made drastic changes to our spending habits - and mindset about what we really "need", we're happier, more content and as soon as hubby can find a job again... life is good.