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Spider
11-26-2010, 04:56 PM
How important do you think anchor text is and in what regard?

I notice that my main site's new homepage comprises of five exit points to various aspects of what I offer - 4 pages within the main domain and one to a different domain but under my control. The text for each of these exit points are teaser intros and the anchor text on all five is "Read.more"

I am thinking that this does nothing for the target pages, but making them more suitable for the target pages' SEO would, I'm thinking, water down the keyword structure of the homepage's SEO, which is focussed solely on the single term, "Business coach."

It also means, by dropping the "Read.more" anchor, I then have no call to action.

What do you think are the pros and cons?

greenoak
11-26-2010, 05:54 PM
i like the read more..... it lets several big ideas share the front page.....and the navigation makes sense, its user friendly......... i dont know about the seo etc...
throwing around the word millionaire sounds kind of over the top...but hey you are in TEXAS!!

Harold Mansfield
11-26-2010, 06:46 PM
I use anchor text when ever possible, but it's a catch 22 when you are talking about interlinking your own pages of your website. "read more" is a common link text, and you do have to think about the reader first.
When it fits, I'll use something like "read more about whatever it is" with "what ever it is" acting as both a description of where it links to and anchor text for my SEO efforts.

If you are using some kind of image or button as the link, that's when alt title's, and a short description would come in handy. Sometimes you will notice that you will hover over a linked button and the pop up will be not only descriptive but link/SEO friendly for the website.

Spider
11-26-2010, 09:05 PM
Good points, both. I like the "read more about whatever it is" idea - it gives the reader-centric "read more" and the target seo-centric anchor, but it leaves out the negative potential of watering down the homepage's seo efforts.

Business coach - blah, blah, blah, read more - blah, blah, business coach - blah, blah - read more - blah, blah - business coach...

Or --

Business coach - blah, blah, blah - million dollar business - blah, blah - business coach - blah, blah - public speaker - blah, blah - bigger game - blah, blah - business coach - blah, blah - revitalize your business - blah, blah....

Set out like that, helping the seo of following pages looks very damaging to the seo of the source page. But is it really? And if it is, to what extent might it be damaging? And is one likely to gain more from reinforcing the various target pages serps positioning or from reinforcing the homepage serps positioning?

Or doesn't it really matter much either way?

Harold Mansfield
11-26-2010, 10:02 PM
For your site, I would target the home page with your main keywords, and not too many. The most important ones.

You aren't "damaging" the home page by helping inner pages just as long as you don't target all pages with the exact same keywords and phrases. That will spread your juice too thin, and unnecessarily.
No 2 pages should be about the exact same thing, so there should be no reason to target them the same.

Your main keyword(s), or phrase should be directed at the home page.

Not sure if that's what you were asking or not.

jamesray50
11-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Hi Spider,

You have a very interesting website. When I clicked on your home page I read the first column and clicked on more, went to the second page, and from there went to the rest of the pages from the links on each of those pages. I thought the pages looked nice, I liked the pictures, the header looked nice, the tabs at the top was nice. I went to the contact page and looked at it and then was going back to the home page and didn't see the tabs at the top. I thought for a minute there I was stuck on that page or would be required to contact you or sign up for your service, but then I saw the home link at the bottom of the page. I sort of thought that was a stange design. I don't think I have ever seen a design like that before, but that's my opinion, I'm not an expert on web design.

When I went back to your home page something seemed odd to me, and again, this is just my opinion, and maybe this is why it will work, but there is no header or menu items or anything to make me think I have landed on someone's home page. But, surprise, when I click on more, there is what looks like a website on the next page. I'm just rambling and do that sometimes when I don't know how to say what I am thinking. But, I guess I'm saying I think I like it. But, I have another question. On your price page, why is the last line of your prices in smaller fonts?

nealrm
11-27-2010, 07:24 AM
The anchor text used for link is very important for SEO. It is what most search engines use to classify a link. Since these are links between your sites, I would keywords that represent the pages pointed to by the links. This way you can have several pages that are customized for specific keywords. If done correctly they will not compete against each other, but form a mesh that supports the entire group. In cases of conflicts you can always use a "Nofollow" tag.

vangogh
11-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Anchor text is certainly important, however I've come across some claims that "click here" or "read more" will get more clicks since the call to action is so direct. Also you don't necessarily want ever link pointing to a page to contain the exact same anchor text or it can appear too well optimized to a search engine. Some people say it's over optimized (which really doesn't make sense as a term) in the sense that you're sending a signal that your links aren't really natural.

Ideally try something like Harold suggested. The call to action can be in the sentence, but outside the anchor text itself. Or maybe get in a good call to action that's also more keyword rich.

Spider
11-27-2010, 11:44 AM
...Not sure if that's what you were asking or not.Well, no, not really. I was not looking for specific instructions, although your guidance is appreciated - I was asking more for a philosophical or logical viewpoint on the reasons you might recommended certain actions. If the introduction of other keywords and phrases into a page really dilutes the effectiveness of the main desired keyword, when those other keywords are anchor text, and if so to what extent, much or little, some or none.

Harold Mansfield
11-27-2010, 12:00 PM
If the introduction of other keywords and phrases into a page really dilutes the effectiveness of the main desired keyword, when those other keywords are anchor text, and if so to what extent, much or little, some or none.

You should just use words naturally as you need. It's only a factor if you are trying to SEO (bring up in the serps by linking heavily to it) multiple pages with the same keywords (anchor text links).
Just because one page is SEO'ed for the term "black" doesn't meant that you can't use "black" on other pages. Just don't try and rank those other pages for "black" as well because they are likely not as specifically about "black" as the main "black" page. Optimize them for different terms that are most relevant to what the page is actually about..not what the site is about.
If Google doesn't see a direct match, it will push you behind other pages of the same niche, targeting the same keywords that are a direct match.

The introduction of other keywords and phrases into a page does not dilute anything. It's just a natural part of the content. Just don't use them as the same main anchor text as another page.
In other words, don't use the term "black" as anchor text for multiple pages. Use it for the page who's content most directly matches "black".

The most SEO important information of a page is the Title, Keywords or Tags, and Description ( 160 characters). After that, the first paragraph should contain the targeted information, with more spread throughout the page naturally. Then anchor text linking to that page with same keyword/phrases.

You shouldn't target every page with the same terms. If you don't know what terms to target on a page, just boost the home page.

Spider
11-27-2010, 12:31 PM
Hi Spider, You have a very interesting website... Thanks for your comments, Jo Ellen. Interesting and valuable to see the thought process of a person other than a designer. Let me explain my rationale-

These days, almost every Business-to-Business service has people claiming to be a business coach. I have seen accountants, attorneys, Realtors, HR people, PR* people, advertising and marketing people, printers and I don't know what, using the term to expand their business. (I recently heard a story of how a shoe-shine at an airport increased his business by claiming to be an image consultant!)So, when someone searches for "Business coach" you don't really know what they are looking for. There's a good chance they aren't looking for me!

Someone searching for "Business coach" might land on my site and visit a couple of pages trying to see what I know about labor relations, for example. They will find nothing and leave. That doesn't serve them any purpose and it messes up my stats.

So, my first page is very clear on five things I offer. "That isn't what you were really searching for? Thank you, Goodbye - Have a nice day!" We don't need a header/banner to accomplish that. A visitor is not going to want to know who I am if I don't do what they want, and they won't need navigation, and they don't need a picture to entice them, entertain them, or garner interest in what I do do. Once a visitor has decided that they want to turn their small business into a multi-million dollar business, play a bigger game, or want to revitalize their business or help in developing a wealth plan - then they will want to know more about me and how I do what I promise - and that is when we give them a header/banner, a bit of color, and more information.

Each of those front page links leads to a series of 3 or 4 pages that end at the contact/services page. That page has no navigation on purpose (other than the home link at the bottom.) When someone reaches here from passing through the "sales" process page series, they are supposed to be ready to buy. The only things I need for them to do at this point is to contact me or leave (or go back to the home page.)

Regarding your final question - why the smaller text - because that sentence applies to and is repeated in every plan so I thought it needed de-emphasizing somewhat. It's parenthetical and a minor incentive to start now.

Thanks again for commenting. Most helpful.


PS. Who puts those compulsory explanations in our posts?! If Google is going to take over the world it's because we help them do it! PR stands for PUBLIC RELATIONS, not Google Page Rank! Jeez!

Spider
11-27-2010, 01:10 PM
The anchor text used for link is very important for SEO. It is what most search engines use to classify a link...I am aware of the importance of anchor text for the seo of the target page. I am also using a single keyword for some pages and a group of related keywords for others. The Home page is optimized for the single keyphrase, "Business Coach." All of that is not the question.

The question is, to what extent would the anchor text (which is on the Home page, being keywords for the target pages), dilute the keyword focus of the Home page?

Spider
11-27-2010, 01:26 PM
...I've come across some claims that "click here" or "read more" will get more clicks since the call to action is so direct. Also you don't necessarily want ever link pointing to a page to contain the exact same anchor text ...That makes sense.

The three paragraphs across the bottom of my Homepage have two links each since I linked the the titles (on your suggestion, VG.) So I can leave the "Read.more" anchor as it is.

The other two paragraphs (upper right) only have one link each, and I'm thinking to make them keyword anchors, rather than "read.more," and lose the call to action.

What this does, though, in total, is to introduce five new keyword-rich phrases on a page that is supposed to optimized for "Business coach" only. There are only so many times I can use "Business coach" and this keyphrase is now overwhelmed by all these other keywords and keyphrases.

I am worried that the sole focus on Business Coach is lost, and I have a polyglot of unintended keywords on this page.

What do you think? Is that so?

Harold Mansfield
11-27-2010, 01:28 PM
The question is, to what extent would the anchor text (which is on the Home page, being keywords for the target pages), dilute the keyword focus of the Home page?

Confused. Are you saying that you are using "Business Coach" as the anchor text for other pages as well? If so, then that is not the way I would do it. I can't say that it necessarily dilutes the Home page, but it is spreading resources thin and means that you are not targeting pages according to their specific content.

All of your pages are not specifically about "Business Coaching". Sure, the site as a whole is (all of the content combined) but your pages are about specific areas within "Business Coaching" so I would target them as what the are.

If one page is about "building wealth" and "Building wealth" is the phrase that you want to optimize for, then I wouldn't use "Business Coach" as the anchor text that directs to that page.
Targeting each page with the same anchor text won't pull the whole site up together because what you will have is some pages that are a direct match for the term and others that are not and won't get as much love.

If you sell cars, and one page on your website is about wheels, then target that page for wheels, not cars.

You also don't want to over do it. Try to make it as natural as possible or it will be seen as keyword stuffing, which is really not good.

Spider
11-27-2010, 05:14 PM
You should just use words naturally as you need. It's only a factor if you are trying to SEO (bring up in the serps by linking heavily to it) multiple pages with the same keywords (anchor text links)...I don't know why we are getting references to multiple pages with the same keywords. That doesn't come into this discussion at all - and it seems to me pretty obvious not to do that. Anyway, every one of my 30+ pages is being optimized for different search terms. Some of them, as I have said, are being optimized for a single term "business coach" OR "life coach" OR "personal mentor," etc. and some for multiple terms (all related, of course - success AND Success coach AND success coaching AND Business Growth AND Personal Development.) But the optimizing for each page is different.



...Just because one page is SEO'ed for the term "black" doesn't meant that you can't use "black" on other pages...I follow that, but isn't it true that if "black" comes to dominate the terminology of that other page, that other page becomes optimized for "black"? In practical terms, if I say I am optimizing a specific page for "business coaching" and while I am using words naturally, I refer to "business coach" more often than "business coaching," the page inadvertently comes to be optimized for "business coach" and not "business coaching."



...The introduction of other keywords and phrases into a page does not dilute anything. It's just a natural part of the content...This I did not understand. I thought it was generally accepted that if you introduce a second keyword to a page to the same extent as the original keyword, the original keyword is less effective, ie it is diluted. Is this no longer true?

Harold Mansfield
11-27-2010, 05:52 PM
Anyway, every one of my 30+ pages is being optimized for different search terms. Some of them, as I have said, are being optimized for a single term "business coach" OR "life coach" OR "personal mentor," etc. and some for multiple terms (all related, of course - success AND Success coach AND success coaching AND Business Growth AND Personal Development.) But the optimizing for each page is different.

This is where I keep getting confused. You are saying "Some of them (meaning multiple pages) are optimized for a single term "business coach or "personal mentor" etc." To me this reads as if multiple pages are optimized for the same terms.

Either way, I think that you are stuffing too many keywords. You don't need "success coach" AND "success coaching". Pick the one that wields the most searches or the one that you want to target and stick with it.

2. Just because the words are on the page doesn't mean that it is optimized for those words. You may increase the frequency, but not necessarily the visibility to SE's. They are going to go by what you tell them with your title, tags and description, combined with what is on the page, combined with how, and from where you are being linked to.



I follow that, but isn't it true that if "black" comes to dominate the terminology of that other page, that other page becomes optimized for "black"? In practical terms, if I say I am optimizing a specific page for "business coaching" and while I am using words naturally, I refer to "business coach" more often than "business coaching," the page inadvertently comes to be optimized for "business coach" and not "business coaching."
No. That is no more true than a page being optimized for the words "because" or "the" just because you use them frequently on the page. If it's not in the Title, Tags, or Meta description and linked to using that term as anchor text..then they are just words on the page just like all others. You will get juice if the title, description, tags, anchor text, and content match.

Also, you don't get as much juice from interlinking as you used to. Links from outside, related content sites are have the biggest weight. Internal links are helpful (barely), but not enough to get headache over. Just link naturally for navigation and to provide additional information. You don't have to spread keywords throughout the content as anchor text and link them to other pages.
We did that a few years ago, but rarely does anyone do it anymore for 2 reasons.

1. It's confusing to readers
2. It could possibly continually send readers all over the place on your site creating frustration.
3. Readers hate unnecessary and self serving text links.
4. Google doesn't weight it as much as it used to. They are getting away from self linking and manipulation and leaning more towards outside links as a way to tell who has important or well read information.

Your best SEO efforts are going to come from outside of your site. Not internally.
Anchor text has the most weight when it is used on an outside website. It has even more weight from a related content website.
If you have your keywords in your title, even if someone gives you a straight link, the keywords in your title will (sometimes) still provide you with anchor text...like you see here in the forum when we post some links.



This I did not understand. I thought it was generally accepted that if you introduce a second keyword to a page to the same extent as the original keyword, the original keyword is less effective, ie it is diluted. Is this no longer true?

Again, no. By merely publishing a word on a page, you are not introducing a new keyword. However, spread throughout the site will help your overall SEO of the site as a whole..meaning the main URL, you.com

Hopefully Bill will chime in. I know he is proficient with Adwords so he definitely has a grasp on what Google is looking for and how they rate a page.

Spider
11-27-2010, 06:44 PM
Confused. Are you saying that you are using "Business Coach" as the anchor text for other pages as well? ...No, no - of course not!

Okay, let me put aside any attempt to be brief and so be more explanatory on this.

Home page - frederickpearce .com/index - is effectively the foyer of my website-building with five doors leading off. I am optimizing this page for the search term, "business coach." That, and that alone, is what I want to rank for. (I have other pages, one for for 'business coaching', another for 'life coach', another for 'life coaching,' another for 'personal coach' another for 'multi-million dollar business,' another for 'play a bigger game,' another for 'building wealth,' and so on.)

.. All the text, header tags and as many alt tags as seem reasonable, on the Home page, are focussed on the term "business coach." Nothing else.


The five doors are the five paragraphs that lead to --
1. the page on my site about "turn your small business into a multi-million dollar company"
2. my page at the Houston Toastmasters Speakers Bureau
3. the page on my site about "playing a bigger game"
4. the page on my site about "revitalizing your business"
5. the page on my site about "building wealth"

1. is optimized for " multi-million dollar, million dollar business, multi-million dollar company " and would have the anchor text "multi-million dollar company" on the Home page.
2. is off-site but I would have the anchor text "public speaker" on the Home page.
3. is optimized for " Life coaching, play a bigger game " and has the anchor text "He will help you Play a Bigger Game!" on the Home page.
4. is optimized for " Business Coaching, revitalizing your business " and has the anchor text "He will help Revitalize Your Business!" on the Home page.
5. is optimized for " Building wealth " and has the anchor text "He will help you Create a Wealth Plan!" on the Home page.


This is the question--

As long as I am using "read.more" as the anchor text to each of these doors/pages, on the Home page, the predominant wording (and there isn't much of it) is all about "business coach" without any other noticeable keywords. In fact, "business coach" is used 8 times, which is about as much as I can use it, I think.

However, as soon as I replace the "Read.more" anchor text with the proposed anchor text above, I am introducing 5 other noticeable keywords/phrases, like Play a bigger game, Building wealth, revitalize your business, multi-million dollar company, and so on. The predominance of "Business coach" has shifted from 8 out of 8 to 8 out of 13. This is what I am seeing as dilution of the power of my selected keyword.

Sorry for the elaborate explanation - is that clearer?

Harold Mansfield
11-27-2010, 07:10 PM
OK, I have to take it in sections...

No, no - of course not!

Okay, let me put aside any attempt to be brief and so be more explanatory on this.

Home page - frederickpearce .com/index - is effectively the foyer of my website-building with five doors leading off. I am optimizing this page for the search term, "business coach." That, and that alone, is what I want to rank for. (I have other pages, one for for 'business coaching', another for 'life coach', another for 'life coaching,' another for 'personal coach' another for 'multi-million dollar business,' another for 'play a bigger game,' another for 'building wealth,' and so on.)

I don't think you need as many variations of similar terms. Google is smart these days. If you are optimizing for "Life Coach" that should be sufficient. If "Life Coaching" just happens to be part of the content, that still goes to help. You don't need to use that many variations. It could be interpreted as keyword stuffing. You don't need "Black, Blacker, Blackest, Blackington, and Blacked" all in the same page.

Also, is "Play a bigger game" a term that is searched for frequently? Then why optimize for it?
I'm not nit picking your SEO cause I'm no expert, but it seems that more used terms would be a better option. A quick look at the Google keyword tools shows that there are only 58 monthly searches for that phrase and they seem to be oriented towards chess and Chinese checkers.



.. All the text, header tags and as many alt tags as seem reasonable, on the Home page, are focussed on the term "business coach." Nothing else.


The five doors are the five paragraphs that lead to --
1. the page on my site about "turn your small business into a multi-million dollar company"
2. my page at the Houston Toastmasters Speakers Bureau
3. the page on my site about "playing a bigger game"
4. the page on my site about "revitalizing your business"
5. the page on my site about "building wealth"

1. is optimized for " multi-million dollar, million dollar business, multi-million dollar company " and would have the anchor text "multi-million dollar company" on the Home page.
2. is off-site but I would have the anchor text "public speaker" on the Home page.
3. is optimized for " Life coaching, play a bigger game " and has the anchor text "He will help you Play a Bigger Game!" on the Home page.
4. is optimized for " Business Coaching, revitalizing your business " and has the anchor text "He will help Revitalize Your Business!" on the Home page.
5. is optimized for " Building wealth " and has the anchor text "He will help you Create a Wealth Plan!" on the Home page.


All sounds good. Although I wouldn't combine two unrelated phrases together.."life coaching, play a bigger game". Let them stand alone, because together you are optimizing that people will search for them just like that..."life coaching, play a bigger game"..again, Google shows no searches for that phrase combination.


This is the question--

As long as I am using "read.more" as the anchor text to each of these doors/pages, on the Home page, the predominant wording (and there isn't much of it) is all about "business coach" without any other noticeable keywords. In fact, "business coach" is used 8 times, which is about as much as I can use it, I think.

However, as soon as I replace the "Read.more" anchor text with the proposed anchor text above, I am introducing 5 other noticeable keywords/phrases, like Play a bigger game, Building wealth, revitalize your business, multi-million dollar company, and so on. The predominance of "Business coach" has shifted from 8 out of 8 to 8 out of 13. This is what I am seeing as dilution of the power of my selected keyword.

Sorry for the elaborate explanation - is that clearer?

No, it's not necessarily diluting anything (or I should say hurting anything) because you have your keywords in context. That's what Google looks for. Natural context. 8 out of 13 looks a little more natural. It may change the saturation, but not enough to worry about because your other SEO efforts are all going to help as well.

I also wanted to add that I don't think that interlinking with anchor text isn't important. If you are naturally linking within the site for navigation or as part of the content then yes, you should try to use anchor text when possible. However, I don't suggest looking for opportunities to drop an anchor text link.

Where are the SEO guys when you need them, huh?

Spider
11-27-2010, 10:03 PM
...I don't think you need as many variations of similar terms. Google is smart these days. If you are optimizing for "Life Coach" that should be sufficient. If "Life Coaching" just happens to be part of the content, that still goes to help. You don't need to use that many variations. It could be interpreted as keyword stuffing. You don't need "Black, Blacker, Blackest, Blackington, and Blacked" all in the same page...Repeat: These are not all on the same page. Each keyword is optimizing a SEPARATE page - "... other pages, one for for 'business coaching', another for 'life coach', another for 'life coaching,'..." etc.


...Also, is "Play a bigger game" a term that is searched for frequently? Then why optimize for it?
I'm not nit picking your SEO cause I'm no expert, but it seems that more used terms would be a better option. A quick look at the Google keyword tools shows that there are only 58 monthly searches for that phrase and they seem to be oriented towards chess and Chinese checkers... The chess and checkers orientation is only Google's suggestion, not search results, as far as I can see.

And the 58 monthly searches are local searches. Global searches - and I have had some great clients from Europe, Australia and Canada - total 170 global monthly searches average. More popular terms are going to be more competitive. I have had people visit my site from this keyphrase, and I don't need 20 new clients every month. You might also consider the 2,900 global monthly searches for "bigger game" to be frequent enough. True, some, even most, of those might be hunting queries, but some of them will be about playing a bigger game in life or in business.


Yes, perhaps some SEO folk more expert than both of us will turn up soon to comment.

Harold Mansfield
11-27-2010, 10:22 PM
To answer your original question, no using "read more" is not going to hurt you for interlinking. If you can use an anchor text, then by all means, but no need to force it if it's not natural.
Anchor text applies more to links coming from outside of your website, not inside.

Harold Mansfield
11-27-2010, 11:14 PM
Yes, perhaps some SEO folk more expert than both of us will turn up soon to comment.

I know. Just thinking about SEO makes my head hurt.

vangogh
11-28-2010, 10:04 AM
Frederick I think I understand the question you're asking, though let me know if I have this wrong. You're concerned that if you use the anchor text "business coach" on a page you aren't optimizing for the phrase "business coach" it will mean that page is now competing with the page being linked to, which is the page you are optimizing for "business coach"

Is that right?

I think you said your home page is the one you're optimizing for "business coach" so the question would be should another page on your site link back to the home page with the anchor text "business coach" and what effect would it have on both pages.

Yes, technically by using the words business coach on that second page it uses the keyword. That's fine. It really would be near impossible never to mention the same keyword phrase on more than one page of your site. Using it isn't really optimizing for it. Anchor text is likely a stronger ranking signal for the page the link points to than the page with the text. If your about page uses the anchor text "business coach" to link to your home page, the benefit (in regards to ranking for "business coach") will likely be greater for your home page than your about page. In other words using the anchor text would be good.

With your home page I would use the anchor text to link to the 5 doors as you put it. The anchor text will help each of the 5 pages and as long as the home page has been optimized well enough for the phrase "business coach" you're not hurting the home page at all.

Spider
11-28-2010, 10:06 AM
To answer your original question, no using "read more" is not going to hurt you for interlinking. If you can use an anchor text, then by all means, but no need to force it if it's not natural.
Anchor text applies more to links coming from outside of your website, not inside. I think you are still misunderstanding the question, Harold. I am not asking about the effect of the anchor text on the target page, I am asking about the effect the anchor text might have on the source page.

I am of the opinion that the anchor text will affect the optimization of the source page. The anchor text is still new words introduced into the dialog and will be considered in the SE algorithm just like all other words on the page.

Further, I believe that page title and description tags are most important and that Google ignores the keyword tag, although other search engines may still take the keyword tag into consideration. I believe Google ignores the keyword tag because it develops its own list of keywords for the page from the visibile text on that page, which is why I think link anchor text affects the source page optimization. Other SEs, I think, do the same but mix keywords they generate with the keywords given to them in the keyword tag.

I'd be interested to know what others think, too.

Harold Mansfield
11-28-2010, 10:50 AM
I think VG hit it right. Anchor text on the source page (where the anchor text is) is not going to affect you negatively. There is no way around it. A link has to come from somewhere. There are too many other factors for that one thing to hold a majority of the weight.

I think you are correct about the tags, but certainly other places still use them.

Spider
11-28-2010, 01:46 PM
Frederick I think I understand the question you're asking, though let me know if I have this wrong. You're concerned that if you use the anchor text "business coach" on a page you aren't optimizing for the phrase "business coach" it will mean that page is now competing with the page being linked to, which is the page you are optimizing for "business coach"
Is that right?No. Everyone else seems to be wanting to use the anchor text, "business coach." I'm not, I haven't said I am and I cannot understand why they are. As a result, VG, you seem to have it exactly opposite to what I was asking so, if I turn myself around 180 degrees, I can use what you said.


..With your home page I would use the anchor text to link to the 5 doors as you put it. The anchor text will help each of the 5 pages and as long as the home page has been optimized well enough for the phrase "business coach" you're not hurting the home page at all.

Harold Mansfield
11-28-2010, 02:07 PM
Maybe we are not being clear enough.
No, I don't see any problem with the way you are doing it. Your internal anchor texts has very little weight on your over all SEO.
If it is appropriate, then use them. If not, then don't.
Using "read more" is not going to harm you.
Using keywords from one page on another page does not optimize the second page for that word.

If you just write your pages naturally with content directly related to what you are optimizing for, you should be fine without a lot of stress over if you are doing the right thing. You will naturally use the proper wording and terms and you will only need to think about density scores for a split second, just enough to be aware of where your keywords are, but not enough to count them or micro manage each individual word or link.

vangogh
11-28-2010, 11:55 PM
Frederick I used "business coach" as an example to illustrate a concept. I wasn't suggesting it was exactly the issue you were concerned with. I think if you take the time to read through my post it answers your question.

jamesray50
11-29-2010, 02:36 AM
PS. Who puts those compulsory explanations in our posts?! If Google is going to take over the world it's because we help them do it! PR stands for PUBLIC RELATIONS, not Google Page Rank! Jeez!

In my industry PR mean payroll, but I knew what you meant. Thanks for explaining your website design.

vangogh
12-01-2010, 11:23 AM
PR stands for different things in different contexts. It's also used as an abbreviation for Puerto Rico. Lot's of abbreviations mean different things under different contexts.

ERA - equal rights amendment
ERA - earned run average

If you ask a question about search engines and search engine optimization then PR is usually going to refer to PageRank. If your question is more about marketing in general then PR will likely refer to Public Relation. It's unreasonable though to think it can only mean one thing under all contexts.

Spider
12-01-2010, 12:01 PM
Just to report back for all your help:

In the end, I decided to leave things much as they were. I would have changed to more seo-oriented anchor text in other circumstances but this was a special case - there are only 200 words visible on this page, total. Even slight excess use of other keywords in so small a context would have an exaggerated effect, I feel. The three paragraphs at the bottom already had keyword links in the titles - add keywords again instead of "Read.more" would have overweighted those words. (Business Coach - the ranking term for this page - only appears twice and I cannot see including it more than that.)

The link for the top-right paragraph, if not "Read.more", would have to be "multi-million dollar company" and that phrase also appears in H1 tags, large and bold, to the left. Using it again would overweight that term, so it remains as 'Read.more.'

The only link that I changed is the speaker link, which is somewhat incidental to the Business Coach theme, so I made that a stronger call-to-action.

I hope you see the logic and don't think I'm being unnecessarily stubborn.

Harold Mansfield
12-01-2010, 12:19 PM
Not at all. I didn't see much need to be overly critical of the way you were interlinking. Personally, I don't put much weight on it in my own sites.

n_touch
02-11-2011, 01:11 AM
Anchor text is the key. You have to make sure that you are not always using the same anchor text, there should be a good mix. If you are using it on your site, then make sure that it makes sense to your readers. If it doesn't then your defeating the purpose. To often I see people just throwing anchor text in to get it, and not paying attention to how it actually reads.

Weldathome
02-11-2011, 08:00 AM
Google does not rank all anchor text equally. They will give more weight to an anchor text if it is part of a logical sentence, points to a different domain on a different server, and relates directly to the subject of the target.

If your anchor is isolated on your page, without being part of a logical sentence, you lose weight.

You gain no page rank weight by pointing to other pages in your domain.

Google will penalize you for being deceptive - if your link does not relate to the subject target, no weight. If it is hidden (same color as the background), no weight.

vangogh
02-11-2011, 10:00 AM
Jack I agree with your first two statements, but disagree somewhat with the last two. I do think internal links pass PageRank. The site overall won't gain more PageRank, but the page being linked to will. If you were meaning your domain as a whole doesn't gain then I'd agree, but the page in question does gain.

I don't think Google penalizes so much as it filters things. I think it would depend on how deceptive you're trying to be. I agree those links aren't going to pass any value, though your page and site overall probably aren't penalized in most cases.

Weldathome
02-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Vangogh, yes, I did not make it very clear. Should perhaps have said 'will not gain page rank' rather than 'penalize'.

Also, was not aware that pagerank also applied to individual pages in a domain. Please tell us more.

Thanks.

vangogh
02-11-2011, 10:48 AM
PageRank is page specific. Different pages on your site will have different PageRanks associated with them. That's how it's always worked. People tend to think of PageRank as something applied to a domain, but it's always applied to specific pages. Most people when they say my site has a PR of X mean how much PR their home pages is.

You can talk about the PR of a site or domain, but you're really not specifically talking PageRank at that point. You're talking more about what PageRank is trying to measure, some kind of link authority or the sum of the weight of all links flowing into your site.

When you link internally you're helping the PR coming into your site flow through your site. For example sat your home page generates a lot of links and has a PR of 6. Your home page links to the main page of each section on your site. Your home page is then passing on some of the link value or PR that flows into it to those main section pages. Each of those pages will likely have a PR associated with it even if they never acquire links from an external source.

It's better for those pages to have external sites linking directly to them, but they still gain from the other pages of your site linking to them.

Think of all the links from other sites pointing to any page of your site giving your whole site some kind of total value. You can then choose how to redistribute that value within your site.

Weldathome
02-12-2011, 06:47 AM
Thanks for all the info, vangogh. It surely is an eye-opener. Hopefully everyone on this forum will read and heed.

vangogh
02-13-2011, 11:38 AM
Glad to help Jack.

SiteSciences
02-15-2011, 12:39 PM
Anchor text is huge!


From a visitor standpoint, it's also huge. I've personally seen conversion rates quadruple from changing the anchor text on a single link.

From a search engine standpoint, it's mega-huge. In case you haven't heard, the NY Time just uncovered how J.C. Penney was ranking #1 for hundreds of keywords (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13search.html?_r=2) (that they shouldn't have been ranking that well for).

These were links placed on pages that had nothing to do with the page they were linking to, except the anchor text.

So there you go!


Edit:
a few have mentioned that sometimes anchortext will count for less depending on where it is on the page, etc. This is not true. The link itself may be devalued in that it passes less juice, but Google uses the same criteria for processing each link no matter where it's placed, which means that anchortext will always be very important.

That being said, you will rarely find a website that passes full linkjuice (PR/n-links); there's usually a devaluation coefficient of ~.9. You should never worry too much about a link getting devalued for any one reason; just build more links.

vangogh
02-15-2011, 02:33 PM
The link itself may be devalued in that it passes less juice, but Google uses the same criteria for processing each link no matter where it's placed, which means that anchortext will always be very important.

1. Do you have proof for the second part of your statement?
2. Do you realize how the first part of your statement contradicts the second?

If Google devalues links depending on where the link is located then clearly they aren't using the same criteria for processing those links.

In general though I do agree with you that anchor text has been a very important signal in ranking. I wouldn't necessarily have every link to a page include the exact same anchor text, since it's not natural and sends a signal that you may be trying to manipulate search engines in ways they don't like. Do note that JC Penny isn't ranking for all those terms any more. They got away with something in the short term, but not the long term.

n_touch
03-10-2011, 01:53 AM
I think what he was saying is that all links are devalued not just by where they are on a page, but that if you are a pr5 page, then you are not getting full juice, it will be devalued and that will be the juice that you get. I disagree with him on the fact that all links are the same. A footer link is not the same as a link in context, just as an ad link is not the same as it is in context. There is a way that they separate it out. I am not sure if you will ever find exact proof of it, this is an article that goes through it, i can not say that it is definitive proof, but it makes really good sense if you think about it. Are all Links Equal? (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/10-illustrations-on-search-engines-valuation-of-links).

Also Van you are right, all of your anchor text should vary. I know when we start a site we start with five keywords and then branch out after time, we make sure that between any link building campaigns that all anchor text is distributed out. It does not have to be perfect in percentage, since a natural links will not be perfect, but you have to maintain the fact that people will link how they want, and to what pages they are wanting to link to. Each time you build a link you need to keep that in mind so that you are building a link profile that looks as natural as possible. Ask JC Penny what happens when it starts looking unnatural and I think you will find a good answer.

vangogh
03-10-2011, 10:47 AM
I think once upon a time all links from the same page would have been equal, but search engines have gotten more sophisticated since that time. They certainly aren't perfect, but I think they're reached the point where they can tell the difference between an in content link and a link in the footer. It's likely they treat those links differently.

Where anchor text is concerned it's certainly still a strong ranking signal, however if every link to a page uses the exact same anchor text it does come across as spammy. Hard to see how a search engine can't pick that up and act accordingly. This is just a guess on my part, but I would think they have something where anytime a specific phrase is over X% of all anchor text into the page it sends off a flag and starts having less of an effect of possibly even a negative effect.

On the other hand I've seen signs of the anchor text on no-follow links contribute to how well a page ranks for that anchor text.


Ask JC Penny what happens when it starts looking unnatural and I think you will find a good answer.

Exactly. Of course they'll be able to get their rankings back much quicker than if any of us small guys did the same.

Anthony
04-30-2011, 07:12 AM
Anchor text is very important in SEO because that shows that is used for the link building and inter linking. While making link we have to a keywords so in that case we have to use a proper keywords which we are targeting for the website and then it is create Anchor text based links which helps us to get the ranking higher for that keywords in all major search engine results.