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Spider
11-08-2010, 09:40 AM
When i view my site stats - visitor paths - the source is listed. The source of most of my traffic is Google.

When you click the Google link, it mostly shows the Google results page where my page is listed, and it's valuable to know what serps position we have achieved. But sometimee that Google link doesn't show the Google page but goes directly to the site page that was listed. Then we cannot se what serp position we gained.

When that happens, I am not able to get back to the Google page and cannot see my serp position.

Has anyone a way around this?

vangogh
11-08-2010, 01:17 PM
I'm not entirely following the issue. Which stats program are you using? If I am understanding right the issue sounds like it's something in the stats program. If you're trying to check where you rank you can always just type the keyword phrases into Google and see where your page shows up.

However ranking is not nearly as important as you might think. Search results are now personalized so what you and I see is going to vary. There really isn't a single ranking for any page as different people will see different results in a different order. What's more important is how much traffic any page is getting and from how many different phrases.

Spider
11-08-2010, 06:20 PM
Let's see if I can replicate the different results by showing you the paths taken by two different visitors as they arrive at a page on my site concerning joint ventures --


VISITOR #1 FROM-- Windstream Communications (75.89.70.55)
Sugar Land, Texas, United States

November 7th 2010 11:18:37 PM Page View
SOURCE-- www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CDcQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frederickpearce.com%2Fjv%2Fjv advantages.html&rct=j&q=disadvantages%20of%20joint%20venture&ei=bYXXTLLcJ4OglAehhtX9CA&usg=AFQjCNEhxLG4NzxRQ_VWTpa9cmEWNPzqiQ&sig2=c6j_f3xPIA20f
PAGE-- www.frederickpearce.com/jv/jvadvantages.html

-------------------------------------------------

VISITOR #2 FROM-- Comcast Cable (68.51.192.45)
Savannah, Georgia, United States

November 7th 2010 09:09:32 PM Page View
SOURCE-- www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADSA_enUS387US391&q=what are the disadvantages of dealer network%3f
PAGE-- www.frederickpearce.com/jv/jvadvantages.html



Start with the visitor from Georgia (Visitor #2)-- If you care to paste the Google link into your browser you will see the Google search results page that was shown to the visitor from Georgia from which we can see that my site is in 4th position on page 1 of the results for the search term "what are the disadvantages of dealer network?" All useful information, I think, especially when we can see all visitors like this and judge the effectiveness of the page in winning the visitors I want.

But look what happens when you make the same attempt at analyzing the Texas visitor (Visitor #1) -- paste the Google link for the Texas visitor into your browser and you don't get Googles result page, you go directly to my webpage. That, of course, tells me nothing.

I cannot understand why we get two totally different effects from the same action - a search in Google about joint venturing.

Any help or explanation or workaround you can offer would be appreciated.

These are the two google links activated for you --

Visitor 1 from Texas --www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CDcQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frederickpearce.com%2Fjv%2Fjv advantages.html&rct=j&q=disadvantages%20of%20joint%20venture&ei=bYXXTLLcJ4OglAehhtX9CA&usg=AFQjCNEhxLG4NzxRQ_VWTpa9cmEWNPzqiQ&sig2=c6j_f3xPIA20f

Visior 2 from Georgia -- www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADSA_enUS387US391&q=what are the disadvantages of dealer network%3f

vangogh
11-09-2010, 01:27 AM
Ok, I understand now. I'm not sure why you're seeing these two different kind of referring URLs in your stats program, but I think I can help you get the information you want from the first one. In both cases most of the URL is just a bunch of parameters that are meaningless to what you want to know. You want to see the results page for the specific query someone used to find your page. In both of the URLs the query is indicated with q= (q standing for query)

If you look at the first URL you'll find

q=disadvantages&%;20of&%;20joint&%;20venture

in there. %20 is a space so the query is actually disadvantages of joint ventures

In the 2nd URL you'll find toward the end

q=what are the disadvantages of dealer network

In either case all you really need at Google is

http:// www .google.com/search?q=disadvantages%20of%20joint%20venture
http:// www .google.com/search?q=what]what - Google Search

(I added some extra spaces after http:// and www just so they won't get turned into live URLs)

You won't be able to quickly click a link, but at least you can figure out what the query was so you can find where you rank.

Again though knowing where a page ranks isn't nearly as important as it might seem. What's more important is knowing that the page can pull traffic for queries using the words

joint
venture(s)
disadvantages
advantages

in combination. Instead of thinking about your rank for one or three specific queries think about what other content you could create that would be similar though not exactly the same. Also I notice the page has moved to a new domain and the page title now reads "Joint Ventures and Strategic Alliances"

That probably means you're going to lose traffic on the queries since the words in the query are no longer in the page title. It's not the only reason the page might have ranked, but I'm thinking it was contributing a lot.

Spider
11-09-2010, 09:23 AM
Thanks, VG - I think, though, that the search urls you suggest will only give a search by me - with my personailzations - rather than the visitor's search results, which is what I am really after.

I get your point about the serps ranking being different for everyone because of personalized results. I'm thinking we cannot now check our own SEO by searching ourselves because personalization will favor those sites we search for regularly - giving us a false impression of the placement of our own sites, if we search for them often. So, I like to follow the serps of searches made by other people to get a better feel for the efficacy of my SEO. The direct Google search link prevents that from happening.

Is there any way to search Google without the personalization distortions? Can personalization be turned off?

I don't believe I will lose much traffic as you suggest because this page - Advantages and Disadvantages of Joint Ventures - is only one page of a series and each redirection page leads the visitor to the first page of that series in the new location. Eventually, I will remove the redirection pages when the new domain has gained some traction on its own.

Even so, I'm not overly concerned about losing this traffic. The Joint Venture section, along with Prospecting for New Clients and Coaching Styles sections, weren't doing anything for me. But it is good information and I didn't want to just delete it. So, I have spun them off into separate domains of their own with one-way links to my coaching site. In so doing, I have found a use for the .info TLD - these pages are purely information, so I created -- jvinfo.info (http://jvinfo.info) -- coachingstyles.info (http://coachingstyles.info) -- and -- networkprospecting.info (http://networkprospecting.info)

At the moment, they consist of three or four pages each but maybe I can add some affiliate link pages along with my business coaching link.

Business Attorney
11-09-2010, 11:21 AM
Frederick,

Here is a partial answer to your question: Google Analytics Blog: An upcoming change to Google.com search referrals; Google Analytics unaffected (http://analytics.blogspot.com/2009/04/upcoming-change-to-googlecom-search.html)

As vangogh pointed out, you can still find the search string from the source by looking at what follows the "?q"

Even if YOU could turn of personalization and see what another person would get if they turned off personalization, you have to keep in mind several things:

1. The user probably got personalized results, so unless you are sitting at his computer and just completed the same searches in the same order that he did, you are never going to be certain that the results that you are seeing bear any resemblance to the results he is seeing.

2. Google has data centers all over the world. The data centers do not yield exactly the same search results. Any given search even from the same computer does not always go to the same data center, so even if you duplicated the search and everything that led up to it, you still might get slightly different results.

3. Different ads are served even on two exact same searches. In one case, the ad might be more on point and might siphon away your user before he clicks on your site.

4. People can change their search settings. For a long time, I had changed my settings to show 20 results per page rather than 10, so the difference between someone appearing tenth or eleventh on my search results was minimal. When I got a new computer, I never bothered to change the default settings, so now my first search page only shows the top 10. Unless I go to the second page of the results, #11 is now relegated to oblivion.

In short, you can never be certain that what you are seeing is what your user saw. In fact, it is almost a certainty that his results were not exactly what you are seeing.

vangogh
11-09-2010, 11:33 AM
You can try using some of the other parameters in the string and see if any offer results that the person actually got. None looked like they would, but you never know. The parameters are always between ampersands and they're in the form

name=value

Sometimes you can guess what they are by the name.

If you want to see results based on different locations you can use change location in the sidebar. There's a box that shows your location and you can change it to any place you want. You won't be able to see other people's personalized search though. One of the reasons rankings are less important.

You can turn personalization off. it used to be you just needed to not be logged into Google, but now you have to do more. Here's how from Google (http://www.google.com/support/accounts/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=54048) themselves. Of course the people finding you likely have it on so they would be seeing personalized search.

Makes sense about the new domains. I'm not crazy about the .info TLD, though nothing against it either. I do like the domains otherwise. Nice and easy to remember. My only complaint with the .info part is it wouldn't be someone's natural choice if they couldn't remember the extension. Your domains are pretty easy to remember though so I wouldn't think it would cause too much of a problem.

Spider
11-09-2010, 11:57 AM
The point is, David, to get search results that are not tainted by MY personalizations. Random search results from random searchers for a given search term or search theme are adequate to get an idea of how my SEO is working in the real world. What screws it up is a consistent use of one person's personalization, especially my own.

It seems to me that until we get this figured out (we = everyone interested in SEO) then SEO has returned to the dark ages and is purely a hit and miss affair, as it was before, what? 1995. That's good, in that it screws up the bad guys - the SEO manipulators - but it also screws up the good guys, who are trying to create websites that conform to SE requirements and deliver what the public want.

Right now, I don't think anyone knows with any practical certainty how to optimize a website.

Spider
11-09-2010, 12:01 PM
Thanks for the link, VG. I post the process here for anyone else wanting to search Google wihout personalization--


Signed out searches
If you aren't signed in to a Google Account, your search experience will be customized based on past search information linked to a cookie on your browser. To disable history-based customizations, follow these steps:

1.In the top right corner of the search results page, click Web History.
2.On the resulting page, click Disable customizations.(Because this preference is stored in a cookie, it'll affect anyone else who uses the same browser and computer as you).
Or, if you'd rather just delete the current cookie storing searches from your browser and start fresh, clear your browser's cookies.

Note: If you've disabled search customizations, you'll need to disable it again after clearing your browser cookies; clearing your Google cookie turns on history-based customizations.


I must comment about the arrogance of Google in that last statement - If you've disabled search customizations, you'll need to disable it again after clearing your browser cookies; clearing your Google cookie turns on history-based customizations

But I give credit where it's due, for at least telling us they are doing that.

Business Attorney
11-09-2010, 12:02 PM
If it's only turning off your own personalization, doesn't the link in vangogh's last post do everything you want?

vangogh
11-09-2010, 12:09 PM
But I give credit where it's due, for at least telling us they are doing that.

I think that was only after many complaints otherwise. Early on Google made it difficult to opt out of personalization. Even now it's not exactly an obvious process. They shouldn't have to provide any explanation. A simple turn personalized search results off link along with maybe an brief explantation of what personalized results are should suffice.

Spider
11-09-2010, 12:14 PM
Well, it would be nice if we didn't have personalization at all for anybody - but I cannot expect that so this would seem to do what I want, yes, David. I have just followed the instructions and have disabled my own personalization. Now, I hope, my own searches will not be distorted by my previous searches. I don't know how I can determine that has been done, but that's what they said.

However, I still do not understand why the source link in the stats sometimes gives the Google serp and sometimes links directly to the destination site. I wonder if it is due to different settings at different Google servers.

vangogh
11-09-2010, 12:41 PM
I'm not crazy about personalized search either which is why I turned it off the moment I knew how. I prefer to have generic results that aren't based on my past searches unless I have control over how the past searching influence the present results.

Hard to know why the links you see in the stats are the way they are. It might depend on the stats program or it might depend on the way someone accessed Google. Most or really all stats programs have issues. None are perfect and all will show you data that doesn't make sense at times.

Business Attorney
11-09-2010, 01:31 PM
However, I still do not understand why the source link in the stats sometimes gives the Google serp and sometimes links directly to the destination site. I wonder if it is due to different settings at different Google servers.

The Google Analytics Blog article that I linked to didn't say exactly why sometimes they will use one form and sometimes another, except that they were changing the format slowly and that "The new referrer URLs will initially only occur in a small percentage of searches. You should expect to see old and new forms of the URLs as this change gradually rolls out." Some of the comments to the post expand on the reasoning, but I didn't try to follow the logic.

It sounds to me like the plan may be eventually to phase out the form that you are used to (#2) in favor of the new form that does not show the search results page when you click it.

Spider
11-09-2010, 02:09 PM
Well, that is just stupid! What good is that to anyone?! I know what my page looks like. No-one else gets to see that link except me (or someone at my company viewing my stats.) Why am I to be barred from seeing the page that my visitor used to get to my site? Why bother to give a referrer link, at all, then?

If that isn't a clear indication that Google is trying to hide something (else), I don't know what is!

Another blow to anyone trying to optimize their site. Google really pisses me off, sometimes.