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View Full Version : So, what do you think about bartering?



Blessed
09-10-2008, 06:38 PM
The publisher of the magazine I design and sell ads for loves to barter - and she's pretty fair with her trades. I've been known to barter services for services in the past too but I've always drawn the line at actual goods.

What do you guys think about bartering. Do you do any bartering?

KristineS
09-10-2008, 09:50 PM
I've bartered with services before. It can work out well for both parties.

I haven't tried it with goods, but I wouldn't be against it. If you have something I need and you're willing to exchange it for a service I can provide, it could be a good deal for us both.

cbscreative
09-10-2008, 11:01 PM
I certainly wouldn't rule out bartering, it can be a good thing. After all, it's probably the oldest form of trade in existence, so it's definitely time proven.

orion_joel
09-10-2008, 11:51 PM
Probably the main reason you are ok with bartering services and not so much products is because the product requires you to outlay physical money to purchase the product. Which i think gives some people a different perception of what they are doing.

While trading 1 hour of services for one hour of services may not always meet at an exact dollar value, it still is the same quantity of time from each party and seems fair enough. However i think some people have different idea when it comes to physical product, because where as with a service you are using time, with a physical product you are spending money to purchase it. Where the thinking in this equation needs to change to make it seem more realistic, is the true value of your time. You need to value your time as if it is something that you have paid to purchase, not as something that you freely trade, then you will see trading services or goods is no different, just the way your perceive it.

vangogh
09-11-2008, 01:16 AM
That depends. What are you going to give me in return for my answer? :)

I think bartering is fine, though I rarely enagege in it. Mostly because there's not too much I need so it's unlikely people have anything to barter with.

The one thing I don't like is when people want my services and in return offer something that I have no interest in yet they keep trying to continue to offer it to me. I've had people want me to give them months worth of services and in return they put all sorts of conditions on what they'll give me. And usually I didn't want what they're offering in the first place. Most people who've tired to barter with me weren't even in the right ballpark.

However I think the practice is fine. If someone did have something I wanted I would gladly barter with them. I have on occasion done some things for trade, but very rarely.

Blessed
09-11-2008, 07:53 AM
While trading 1 hour of services for one hour of services may not always meet at an exact dollar value, it still is the same quantity of time from each party and seems fair enough.

Joel - this is true, the first bartering I did was with a massage therapist, our hourly rates were the same so I designed her logo and marketing materials in exchange for some hour long massages. That seemed very fair.


However i think some people have different idea when it comes to physical product, because where as with a service you are using time, with a physical product you are spending money to purchase it. Where the thinking in this equation needs to change to make it seem more realistic, is the true value of your time. You need to value your time as if it is something that you have paid to purchase, not as something that you freely trade, then you will see trading services or goods is no different, just the way your perceive it.

I also agree with this - after I had designed her materials we had them printed and traded out the value of the printing for some more massages. That was the only time I've traded a product for a service. We were both happy with the arrangement - she didn't have to spend any money for the marketing materials she needed and I got double the massages for my money because the value of the printing was almost double what my cost on the printing was.

Unfortunately she hasn't needed anything else since...

Blessed
09-11-2008, 08:04 AM
That depends. What are you going to give me in return for my answer? :)

Is a very nice "thank you" enough? :p


The one thing I don't like is when people want my services and in return offer something that I have no interest in yet they keep trying to continue to offer it to me. I've had people want me to give them months worth of services and in return they put all sorts of conditions on what they'll give me. And usually I didn't want what they're offering in the first place. Most people who've tired to barter with me weren't even in the right ballpark.

This is the problem I'm running into with the magazine - without me even offering it some people are asking if they can trade their service for an ad - teeth whitening, 70 Renaissance Festival tickets, a couple free meals at the local deli? The deli I like and would be willing to do some trade with but really - it would take about 25 free meals to get close to the selling price of a business card sized ad that will reach 25000 people. I'd have to have my teeth whitened twice and the last time I went to the local Renaissance Festival I was glad I had a free ticket because it certainly wasn't worth my $15.

We have been offered a couple of fair trades that were things one of us could use and enjoy and we've taken the people up on those offers but it would almost be simpler not to just so that we can tell everyone else that we don't barter.

Steve B
09-11-2008, 09:29 AM
I publish an advertising magazine and run into the same thing. All you have to do is do partial trade and partial cash. Just get a teeth whitening and $200 cash - instead of the normal $400 for instance.

I end up doing some trading just to fill our magazine because that is the only way to get some business, but I'd rather deal in cash.

Dan Furman
09-11-2008, 10:47 AM
I have found that bartering can get you into trouble a little if you do it too much. That's because, when making sales, well, bartering is better than nothing, right? So it's easy to get into too much bartering.

I recall my first business in 1992 - I made and sold a local direct mail pack. It was $300 to get in. Some months, sales were slow, so when people asked about bartering, I did it, because again, I figured it's better than nothing.

Now, the deli was fine - that took care of my lunch every day. But I also bartered tires for my car... well, I didn't really need tires (the tires were worth more than the car, actually!) I also bartered for lighting fixtures... I lived in an apartment. And I also bartered for pet food... I had one (rather small) cat. Those were essentially useless barters (and I didn't have time to wheel and deal and sell the stuff I bartered for.)

And when the rent came due, my landlord wasn't interested in cat food.

KristineS
09-11-2008, 12:08 PM
You make a good point, Dan, if you're going to barter it should be for something you can either use or fairly easily convert into cash. Otherwise the barter is essentially useless.

Blessed
09-11-2008, 12:25 PM
I publish an advertising magazine and run into the same thing. All you have to do is do partial trade and partial cash. Just get a teeth whitening and $200 cash - instead of the normal $400 for instance.

I end up doing some trading just to fill our magazine because that is the only way to get some business, but I'd rather deal in cash.


This is what we've decided to do - part cash/part barter - this is only our 2nd month and we both also own and run another business and have both been busy with that so we haven't gotten to sell as much as we wish we could have. So we've been doing some partial trades and some deep discounts on ads and etc... to fill the magazine up - it's working but our goal is to move away from bartering and towards straight cash

Blessed
09-11-2008, 12:28 PM
Now, the deli was fine - that took care of my lunch every day. But I also bartered tires for my car... well, I didn't really need tires (the tires were worth more than the car, actually!) I also bartered for lighting fixtures... I lived in an apartment. And I also bartered for pet food... I had one (rather small) cat. Those were essentially useless barters (and I didn't have time to wheel and deal and sell the stuff I bartered for.)

And when the rent came due, my landlord wasn't interested in cat food.

This is exactly what we're concerned with - so we're opting to give some free ads to some of the non-profit groups, city departments and other people who have expressed interest in advertising when they get money back in their budgets - we're being really careful with this and make it exceedingly clear that this is just because we're "new". Also as business owners we know lots of other business owners and so we've been able to do some things for some of them too.

Bartering gets complicated and tricky and so does giving free advertising so I guess I just need to concentrate on selling some more ads!

Dan Furman
09-11-2008, 12:51 PM
This is exactly what we're concerned with - so we're opting to give some free ads to some of the non-profit groups, city departments and other people who have expressed interest in advertising when they get money back in their budgets - we're being really careful with this and make it exceedingly clear that this is just because we're "new". Also as business owners we know lots of other business owners and so we've been able to do some things for some of them too.

Bartering gets complicated and tricky and so does giving free advertising so I guess I just need to concentrate on selling some more ads!

Having had a local advertising business, I can tell you that I understand what you are doing here. Selling local ads to local businesses is a tough, tough sell - kudos to those that do it successfully.

It's ok to give free space (because you're paying for it regardless), but I would be very, very careful with the "when I get money in the budget" people - I have heard that line a million times, and 999,999 of the time it was just a nice way to say "no". I wouldn't spend too much time chasing them.

The same with the "I have to check with my partner" people. Most times, there isn't even a real partner - it's just an easy way to say no. Leave these people a card, and if they call, they were real (and you'll find most won't call.)

Just my .02 on two things that your type of business (and your comments) remind me of :) Good luck!!

vangogh
09-11-2008, 01:12 PM
Is a very nice "thank you" enough? :p

Of course it's enough.

I've been offered some of the most useless stuff imaginable in barter and my answer has always been no.

One thing to take into consideration is the similarity with lowering your prices. If you lower your prices to land new clients and customers word gets out that your prices are low and the next person who comes calling expects low prices too.

If you're too willing to barter that what your next client/customer will be looking for. The more you barter the more you have to expect other people are going to want to barter with you.

cbscreative
09-11-2008, 01:25 PM
That raises exactly the point I was thinking, vangogh. It's too easy to dig a pit with any business decision you make. Like you said, if prices are low, they expect it low next time, and the referral expects the same deal. It's tempting to go low when you are new, and really, you'll most likely be lower than you will be later, but your price point and policies, whatever they are, end up being part of your branding.

Blessed
09-11-2008, 02:59 PM
Good thoughts from everyone - and I agree about pricing, discounts and too much bartering or free advertising. We're hoping for the magazine to be paying for itself by the end of the year and profitable within a year. If it proves to be a money pit we'll shut it down next year. So far we've had good response from recipients and advertisers - and for the second month I've doubled my paid ads in the magazine so I think we're making progress... we just need to kick it in gear and get it full of paid ads.