PDA

View Full Version : Engipress Theme Shop



jamestl2
08-02-2010, 11:58 AM
I've recently spent the past few days configuring and designing my Theme Shop (http://engipress.com/themes/) along with additional features (based off the Shopp plugin Steve recommended to me).

I only have one theme there right now (and I will surely add more in the future), I just wanted to get the store up and running.

So if you had any tips, etc. for the following:

Design and Usability = Can you find what you're looking for easily? Does the demo site I created function well?
Information = Do I have all the necessary details a potential customer would expect? How about the list of theme features?
Price = OK for this one, the price tag I have on the theme may not be final. I haven't entirely decided how much I want to sell the themes I design for. I think right now it's at a fair value. However any pricing tips in general would be great to hear.


I think the current shop setup I have is great and does the job well, however, feedback and advice is always good to hear too. Or if there's anything else crucial I missed about the store or what I'm providing would be helpful as well.

Thanks

Harold Mansfield
08-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Glad to see that you got it set up and it functions the way that I would expect it to if I were looking to buy a theme.

The only critique that I would add would be on your presentation.
I'm not ashamed to say that I watch HG TV religiously and one of the things that I learned on there is about presentation when people are selling a house and what a difference it makes.

The experts there continuously say that when people view your home for sale, they want to be able to envision themselves living there.

The same goes for selling themes. People want to be able to envision using your theme for their project, so , you have to fill out the demos more with great images, graphics, ad spots and so on. You have to show what is possible when the theme is set up properly and filled in with content and using all of the features.

This will cover your other points:


# Information = Do I have all the necessary details a potential customer would expect? How about the list of theme features?
# Price = OK for this one, the price tag I have on the theme may not be final. I haven't entirely decided how much I want to sell the themes I design for. I think right now it's at a fair value. However any pricing tips in general would be great to hear.

The theme may very well be worth $49, but your presentation of it doesn't show that it is, and it's one thing to list the features, it's another to show them.

By the way here is a link to the dummy text creator:
http://www.lipsum.com/

jamestl2
08-02-2010, 12:45 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Harold.

I'm not sure what you mean by my "Presentation" though. Do you mean the Presentation of the Shop itself, or the Theme I'm trying to sell?

The first theme I created was designed specifically that way as to not make it all graphicy or showy. It's supposed to be geared towards people that are looking for a blander, generic theme that doesn't necessarily look like it uses Wordpress.

If by presentation you mean my actual Shop, OK, yeah, the key ares are just text (Demo link, price, etc.). However I'm not a graphic-oriented designer, and despite probably not being too capable of creating the fancy graphics, I wouldn't really know what to put there in place of the text.

Harold Mansfield
08-02-2010, 01:17 PM
By presentation I mean the theme demo. You should at least show what it looks like as a full working blog. They way people are going to use it. I don't know how using images is "showy"..and I'm not suggesting that you in any way change the design..I'm just saying to show it in use.

People use images, people have ads, people have content with multiple pages, and categories. You should show them what that looks like using your theme.
You don't buy a car because the salesman described how it handles and drives...you likely drive it for yourself, flip the switches, play with the knobs an step on the gas. That's what a demo is. A test drive of the theme...otherwise you would just use screenshots.

jamestl2
08-02-2010, 01:22 PM
OK, so basically just add a lot more content (more categories, a few images in the posts, etc.) to the theme demo to give people an idea of all the different possibilities of how they can use potentially use theme?

I got the impression you were suggesting to make the theme itself more flashy, graphic design, image heavy, etc.

Harold Mansfield
08-02-2010, 01:33 PM
OK, so basically just add a lot more content (more categories, a few images in the posts, etc.) to the theme demo to give people an idea of all the different possibilities of how they can use potentially use theme?

I got the impression you were suggesting to make the theme itself more flashy, graphic design, image heavy, etc.

No. Not at all. I'm just suggesting that you show people what the house could look like if they lived in it.

KristineS
08-02-2010, 01:38 PM
I've got to agree with Harold on this one. The basic site isn't bad, but your theme presentation does need a little jazzing up. I've looked at a lot of Wordpress themes, and the ones that are usually the most attractive to me are the ones that show we what I can do with the theme. Spotlight some features. Speculate about what sort of businesses or subjects this theme might work for the best. Give me some ideas about how I can use the theme and I'm more likely to make the purchase.

The other thing you need to sell is how easy your theme will be to set up and use. If I'm paying for a theme, I want to be sure it will be easy to download, easy to set up and easy to use. A free theme can be a little wonky, but something I pay for has to work well. I need reassurance that buying your theme will be a good decision for me.

jamestl2
08-02-2010, 02:18 PM
OK, honestly, I didn't put much work into the demo site at first because I didn't think it would be that big of an influence factor. Usually when I go to a site to view theme demos, I'm mostly just interested in what basic elements appear and what the CSS does to the theme. So I guess I'll think about what more I can add to the demo site as an overall aspect.


Spotlight some features. Speculate about what sort of businesses or subjects this theme might work for the best. Give me some ideas about how I can use the theme and I'm more likely to make the purchase.


Don't I already do this though? I mean on the product page, I give a whole list of features and things the theme offers. Is it too short and brief? What exactly are some good ways to convey the message of whom this theme is intended for?

As for installation, there's nothing extra-special regarding that aspect. The theme just comes in a ZIP file and customers can just upload it however they wish to their site. You think a readme would be a good idea to include?

jamestl2
08-02-2010, 02:43 PM
One other thing I wanted to say about my demo site is that I wanted it to be universally accessible. What I mean is that since all the themes I create will be displayed on this site, and not all of them will have all the same information or architecture, but they will still all be on this demo site. That's why I started a whole new site to begin with.

So basically I'm saying that I want to be cautious with what exact content I place on it, as not all themes will look the same or have the same functionality.

Harold Mansfield
08-02-2010, 02:53 PM
Then you have to present each theme separately to show off their individual features or selling points. Presentation is everything.
You have to remember that people buy themes that offer them the style and functions that they are looking for out of the box. It's a convenience factor.
You are selling mainly to novices without a lot of technical skills so they need to be shown it's possibilities.

jamestl2
08-02-2010, 03:08 PM
I'm pretty sure they will still be able to be presented on the same site. (I'm using a theme switcher plugin that allows guests to easily change between themes in the demo.)

I just don't want to go overboard on displaying a multitude of content that might portray another theme negatively. I'll just have to look for a balance between the two.

vangogh
08-03-2010, 02:54 AM
James I just wanted to let you know I took a quick look and at first glance things seem to be working well. I checked the image of the theme that loaded in the modal window and then tried the demo. I'll spend more time like tomorrow when I have a bit more time, but what you may want to do is build out the demo. You can create pages that can do all sorts of things to help you sell the theme(s) from a simple FAQ to video help presentations for installing the theme and working with it. You could create a video or just screen shots of the admin backend.

The more you build out the demo site the better a tool it will be to help you sell themes.

jamestl2
08-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Alright, sounds good Steve.

So far for my demo I have the following:
Two Posts
Two Pages
Two Categories
Two Comments
A few widgets

I think that just about covers the basic core WP features for any theme in particular. The dummy post I wrote also contains various elements for people to see (A title, an image, various list styles, etc.)

This way people can get a good idea of how those various features look or will look in various themes that I'll eventually finish designing.

vangogh
08-06-2010, 12:57 AM
What I'm, suggesting though is not to just put up Lorem Ipsum pages. Use the space to help convince people to buy from you. Give them more information about your themes in general. Make the home page of the demo more of a sales page. Use the about page to provide more information about how you code themes. Set up a page showing images of your theme's control panel is there is one. Use the blog to make announcements about your next theme.

The demo is extra real estate you can use to educate potential customers and persuade them to buy. See it as an opportunity instead of something you need to fill up with the minimum.

Say I'm a potential customer. I visit your demo, get an immediate impression of the design, and see the home paged filled with Lorem Ipsum. Once I see the Lorem Ipsum, I realize there's not going to be anything to read on the demo. I expect the other pages to look mostly the same so there's no reason to stick around and continue checking out the demo. My decision to buy is going to be based mainly if not completely on those few seconds where I took in the theme, which means the look of your theme better wow me so much that I'm ending my search right now. It also better wow me more than all the themes I've looked at prior to finding yours.

Also why noindex,nofollow the demo? If you add real content there's no reason why it can't rank and people could realistically find the demo before finding your main site. Then show them right away the demo is a theme they can buy. Add a buy now button right at the top of the home page and do all the usual sales copy stuff.

The demo is an extra opportunity for you to close the sale so make use of it. If you've ever looked around for themes to download, what questions did you have about them? What did you want to know about them before you downloaded or bought one? People visiting your demo are going to have the same kinds of questions, so answer them. Don't pass up on the opportunity to persuade more.

jamestl2
08-10-2010, 01:19 PM
Thanks for the suggestions Steve. I've recently been working on another theme the past few days and it's including some nice jquery aspects.



Make the home page of the demo more of a sales page. Use the about page to provide more information about how you code themes. Set up a page showing images of your theme's control panel is there is one. Use the blog to make announcements about your next theme.

I like this line of thinking. Some pages could include HTML samples, dummy text, and about my coding skills. I'll do my best to sell my themes on the demo home page, however some themes are going to have radically different designs and options than other themes' homepages.



Also why noindex,nofollow the demo?

The demo doesn't have any substantial content or substance to it at the moment (just a bunch of Lorem Ipsum text).



If you've ever looked around for themes to download, what questions did you have about them?

That's just it though. It all really comes down to how skilled people are, and like you say, those with varying technical skills can be speaking different languages. And I don't know exactly what specific information non-technical people would be looking for. I try to list as much of that information as I can on the theme product page.

Whenever I look at available themes that spark my interest, I mostly just look at the theme CSS and front-end features. Those aspects are pretty much why any theme would be different than any other.

Harold Mansfield
08-10-2010, 02:52 PM
Whenever I look at available themes that spark my interest, I mostly just look at the theme CSS and front-end features. Those aspects are pretty much why any theme would be different than any other.

So do I..actually the first thing I look start doing is marking things that I am going to change, add, or edit... but that not necessarily how others look at it. You have to speak to your potential customers on their level and emphasize the things about using your theme that are important to them. They are not necessarily tech savvy and are probably not going to look at a potential theme the same way that we do.

Part of that is determining your target demographic...once you have narrowed in on that it will be easier to write your sales copy.

vangogh
08-10-2010, 11:10 PM
It all really comes down to how skilled people are, and like you say, those with varying technical skills can be speaking different languages. And I don't know exactly what specific information non-technical people would be looking for. I try to list as much of that information as I can on the theme product page.

Harold already mentioned this. It comes down to you decided on who your market is and then finding out what questions they need answered. You said you look at the css and front-end features. Are people like you your market. If they are then you know how to present the demo. If they aren't you have to figure out what those people want and need. You can always start by looking around at other theme developers who are marketing to the same people. Also figure out where the people in your market spend their time. Think about them in as much detail as you can and then find out where online they spend time. Are they on Facebook? Twitter? A specific forum?

Once you find those people, take the time to listen to what they say. They'll tell you what you want without having to ask. Then join those place and participate in the conversation with your market. Answer their WordPress questions with a smile all the time having a signature or link pointing back to your site that makes it clear you develop WordPress themes.

I'm not saying the above is easy or quick, but it's what you have to do if you want to understand your market better and let them know you exist.

jamestl2
08-11-2010, 02:09 AM
I know that's what I'll have to do to market the site, however it's not a big concern for me at the moment. First I want to actually finish developing some more themes first to get some more substance to my shop.

I don't really have a specific target market just yet. (Does "anyone who's looking for a theme" count? :D)

Actually, I'm hoping my varying themes will attract a wide variety of potential customers, and I don't want to limit myself to a specific target audience. Some themes may spark interest in business-people looking for a theme, others may run a personal blog, even others may want to use the theme to do something against WP's normal usage.

vangogh
08-11-2010, 11:48 AM
I don't want to limit myself to a specific target audience.

You really don't have a choice. If you try to appeal to everyone you appeal to no one.


Some themes may spark interest in business-people looking for a theme

What kind of business? A real estate broker will be looking for something completely different than a virtual assistant who will be looking for something completely different than a retail store looking to build an online presence. Who'll be buying a working with the site? The business owner? A web developer the business owner hired? Both will look for something completely different in a theme?

Business-people is too large a group of people to target. You have to narrow it down more, otherwise you're not really going to appeal to any specific business owner. If all you're doing is designing themes with different looks then you're relying on the look alone to sell. Be honest with yourself. Do your themes look noticeably different from the thousands of other themes designed for business people or personal bloggers? Is their look enough of a compelling reason to buy from you as opposed to someone else?

I think your theme looks good. I also know within 5 minutes I can find dozens of other themes (and mostly free ones) that will also look good and look very similar to yours. Why should I buy your theme instead of one of the other themes I can find, especially if many of those other themes are free?

Instead imagine you chose one specific type of business (say photographers) and focus on the business owner buying and working on the theme without the support of a developer. Photographers have specific needs, such as image galleries that you could build into your theme. If you're targeting the Photographer and not a web developer than you also need to take the extra step to make using the theme and the image galleries as simple as possible. When you do both as well as aligning your theme with any other needs and wants specific to photographers you now have a theme that offers photographers a compelling reason to buy your theme.

As it stands now you're building themes that will need to stand on their aesthetics alone and you'll need to do some heavy marketing before anyone will even know you're selling themes. Build a theme specifically for photographers (or any specific business) and your marketing becomes simpler and you have a much better chance of making a sale.

jamestl2
08-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Maybe I'm not being that clear here.

When I say my "varying themes will attract a wide variety of potential customers", I mean the site shop in general, which will hopefully have a wide selection for customers to choose from. Of course the individual themes I design will be geared towards those specific target audiences.

Perhaps my first theme on there wasn't a good representation of that. It is kind of general in that regard.

vangogh
08-11-2010, 06:10 PM
I understand what you mean. What I'm saying is you aren't really going to attract the potential customers you think unless you give them something more than just a theme. There are tons of themes available and many for free. You're thinking in terms of having a wide selection, but having a wide selection isn't the same as making a sale.

Let me ask a direct question. Why you? Why should someone buy your theme instead of all the others? What makes your theme different? What problems does it solve for the customer that other themes don't solve?

That last question in particular is one you have to answer and to answer it you have to first be specific in who your customer is and then understand what problems they need solved.

I realize you only have the one theme at theme at the moment and it may not be reflective of the themes you develop over time. What I'm trying to get you to see is you can't just build a theme like everyone else and think it's going to sell a lot. Even if you have a hundred themes you still have to give people reasons to specifically buy one of them. The approach I think you're trying to take is to design lots of different themes with the through that there will be one there for whoever happens to visit your site. I don't think that's a good approach. That's trying to appeal to everyone, which ends up appealing to no one. You're better off building one theme highly targeted to a small group of people. Develop a theme that's the best possible theme for 1000 people instead of a 1000 themes that aren't the best for anyone.

Harold Mansfield
08-11-2010, 06:33 PM
I have to agree with VG. I buy themes and licenses from different designers for different reasons. If I want Magazine style, I'll check out Solostream. If I'm looking for something easy to use for a client, I'll check out Woo (and I also have a developers license there for just that reason).
When I need something new for Buddypress/MU, I am a member at WPMUDEV. When I am looking for something with a little flash to it that I may want to hack, I'll browse Themeforest, and so on.

They all have defined their market and it's what you need to do in any business. Find your market and stay on them.
OF course they all have a few themes here and there that cross over, but for the most part, I know why I am going to them to buy..because they specialize in a certain type of theme.

Wordpress has many uses, you need to narrow in on the people that want to use it in the way that you are designing because all designers don't appeal to all buyers.

jamestl2
08-11-2010, 06:59 PM
Perhaps I am misinterpreting what markets I should be looking at. When I'm considering what markets I've looked into, I see someone who may want a political theme, or maybe a fashion-cultural blog, or even a sports-styled WP design. Is this the wrong way to look at who I'm marketing towards?

Would you suggest finding out about not what these people want to use the blog for or what they're interests might be, but what their skill levels and experience dealing with Wordpress and such are? Or were there other factors I should consider when defining my market?

One of the reasons customers might want to consider me is because I want my themes to be as developer-friendly as possible. Meaning here that there's no special shortcodes to know, overtly-complicated PHP functions, nor lots and lots of theme files. I'm doing my best to make the themes as XHTML / CSS code oriented as possible (along with the obvious Template Tags), with a minimum number of PHP files included in the theme. Not too few, mind you, but I don't want a ridiculous number of files either (I'm thinking about working towards keeping my theme files at a max limit of around 10 or so, just to give an idea.). Basically I want to keep the learning curve to a bare-minimum.


One more thing I wanted to say is that one of the recurring elements in my themes is that I want to design them in a traditional non-blog way. What I mean is my themes will give the appearance that they aren't powered by WP. I've read about some (and worked with a few) people who aren't satisfied with many WP themes out there that DO look like and use the traditional blog-like format. And those people still like the WP back-end, but don't have many options on the front-end.

vangogh
08-11-2010, 08:59 PM
When I'm considering what markets I've looked into, I see someone who may want a political theme, or maybe a fashion-cultural blog, or even a sports-styled WP design. Is this the wrong way to look at who I'm marketing towards?

You have the right approach and you're looking at it the right way. What I'm suggesting is to go further. I'll use the fashion-culture theme as an example. Right away you can ask who is it that will buy your theme. Are you thinking developers like you, me, and Harold, or are you thinking it'll be the owner of the fashion-culture blog that will buy the theme. It's possible it could be either, but pick one because we'll have different needs.

Site owners are less likely to want to muck around in code which suggests you'd want to include an options panel of some kind. Developers will probably find it easier to edit code directly so you're development might lean toward less option panel and more ease of changing code directly. In either case you'd probably want to dig as deep as you can into the fashion-culture industry and think about what specific needs a blog in that industry has. What kind of posts do they create? I'm guessing more image heavy, so you'd spend more time coding things for images.

To do that you might follow a few fashion-culture bloggers on Twitter or find them on forums or subscribe to their blogs. Listen to what complaints they have. Maybe a lot of them have trouble adding videos so you make that as easy as possible and promote your theme that way. Those people who are having that problem will probably give your theme a try and assuming it works for them spread the word.

There's no one way to target a market. You might find there's a problem people have in general that no one's solved. Solve it and those people buy your theme. You could refine your market by the business type, by the aesthetics of your design. There really are a lot of ways. The thing is to refine it more than you have.

I think you're on the right track. I'm just suggesting to go deeper.

Harold Mansfield
08-11-2010, 09:50 PM
Perhaps I am misinterpreting what markets I should be looking at. When I'm considering what markets I've looked into, I see someone who may want a political theme, or maybe a fashion-cultural blog, or even a sports-styled WP design. Is this the wrong way to look at who I'm marketing towards?
It's not exactly the wrong way to look at it if you are targeting your designs to specific niches...(continued)



Would you suggest finding out about not what these people want to use the blog for or what they're interests might be, but what their skill levels and experience dealing with Wordpress and such are? Or were there other factors I should consider when defining my market?


It seems like on the one hand you want to entice developers and on the other you want to entice end users with the themes ease of use. No reason that you can't do both, but you have to market to each specifically.

Someone like me WON"T buy too many themes that are niche specific ( with the exception of some Real Estate themes) because I'll make any layout into what ever niche I need it to be. As a matter of fact I tend to shy away from themes that are specific to a niche because I know 100 other novices have already used it. Also I hate to buy something that can only be used for one thing. For me it's more about the functions than the graphics because I'm going to change most of them anyway...pretty much what VG just said.

But end users on the other hand are just the opposite because they want it pretty much plug and play.

If you are going to target both, you have to write for both.

Developers and service providers care about the functions, code and layout.
End users or novices care about the ease of use, built in options and the graphics.