Do you network wth competitors?

[Harold Mansfield]

I have found recently that my efforts to reach out to competitors or people in the same niche go unanswered. Even more so, I see people targeting me or certain sites of mine specifically that have a hold on certain keywords, and basically...talking crap.

One example: I came across a site today that was recently registered in the name of the keyword that I rank well for. I don't want to quote the text because I don't what it to show up on the SERP's, but it was an obvious digg on my site, which ranks #1 for the term that he registered.

To me , of course this is great!. If someone is taking the time to target one of my sites, , I must be doing something right that they consider me or it competition. That is a huge step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned and I was really happy to see it.

Concerning some others...
I've done everything from joining their Facebook pages and leave friendly messages and contributions on their walls or discussions. Direct email communication. Mentions on blog posts and other things, and yet I see that others in my niche no matter what the website or business have no interest in making any contact with me at all.

Don't get me wrong. The web is dog eat dog and I love competition, but does it have to be unfriendly?

Do you guys network with competitors or people in the same niche as you?
Can you be competitive and still be friendly?

[KristineS]

There are some that I network with and some that I don't. It's mostly a matter of attitude. Sometimes you can find someone in the same or a similar business and you can both support and help each other. I've done that with some people. Other times you can't tell anyone anything because whatever you say will immediately be stolen and used by the competition. A lot of people are scared to share information, even something basically innocuous, because they're afraid it will be stolen or used against them.

[Patrysha]

Call me conceited, or whatever...but I don't really have any direct competition. Anyone in the same field as me is a welcome resource and I do befriend most that are open to it...which is quite a high percentage. I haven't found any of the circles I frequent to be cutthroat...but then I have to say this is the only really mixed forum that I am active on. Most of the other places I go online are mostly (if not all) women.

In many ways, I create some element of competition with the mentoring and sample opportunities I've provided for beginning writers, but they likely won't become true competition because most choose to specialize in areas other than publicity/social media/local shopping/co-operative marketing like I do. There are people within each of these niches, but they've all come there from a different path and we can always refer potential clients to each other if our own style doesn't quite fit the needs of the client. So there's really no need to compete...because we all pretty much know what each other has to offer and willingly and readily refer people back and forth for various specialties.

[vangogh]

I have no problem networking with direct competitors. I wouldn't necessarily befriend all of them, but certainly some. Harold in some ways you and I are competitors, since you're offering WordPress services now. Steve C. and I are competitors, since we both offer web design and development services. I have other friends too that offer same or similar services to me, even some local to Boulder.

Most markets large enough to enter are also large enough for several or many businesses to succeed in them. From a purely business standpoint it makes sense to network with others in your industry as you can either pick up their overflow or pass on your overflow. Both end up giving more business to both of you and make for happy clients.

It's also good that we can learn from each other and become better at what we do. That doesn't mean I'll share everything I know. I'd still like to retain certain competitive advantages where I can.

Now there are some people in direct competition with me I probably wouldn't befriend. More because what I know about them doesn't make me want to know them any more than I already do.

[Blessed]

I do network with some direct competitors - those who don't want to be cutthroat. Like Kristine said - it comes down to attitude. If someone is friendly and easy to work with I'll network with them, if they are snarky, try to get the contact information of my clients, are rude, or I find out that they have tried to discredit my work I don't network with them.
"

[cbscreative]

I once read a writer comment that with writing, there are no competitors, only colleagues. I like that! I try to carry that attitude into graphics, web, and marketing too. Not everyone shares that attitude, but for those who don't, I don't consider them competitors. They may be in the same business, but that doesn't automatically make them competition (at least not in my view anyway).

If someone else gets a project that is highly qualified, I'm happy for them, and I'm happy that the client will be well served. It's when they choose a hack or think with their wallet that I shake my head. Then again, cheap clients and cheap service providers deserve each other, so everything balances out.

In the business I'm involved in, there is far greater need than those of us who supply can truly handle. More service providers is not a bad thing. There's plenty of room for more. Actually, if we do our job well, the demand increases. I'm currently working on shifting my business model toward more active networking. I'm not ready to unveil that yet, but it is in the works.

[vangogh]

Steve I'd like to reply, but since we're competitors I can't talk to you anymore. :)

[cbscreative]

Steve I'd like to reply, but since we're competitors I can't talk to you anymore. :)

LOL. Colleagues, vangogh, colleagues. Good job on the SBF logo BTW.

[Blessed]

I once read a writer comment that with writing, there are no competitors, only colleagues. I like that! I try to carry that attitude into graphics, web, and marketing too. Not everyone shares that attitude, but for those who don't, I don't consider them competitors. They may be in the same business, but that doesn't automatically make them competition (at least not in my view anyway).

I like that too - this attitude only works though when the "colleagues" you network with respect each other professionally. Otherwise they fall into that category of people who work in the same business as I do and who could be considered competition.

[cbscreative]

I like that too - this attitude only works though when the "colleagues" you network with respect each other professionally. Otherwise they fall into that category of people who work in the same business as I do and who could be considered competition.

Totally agree, Jenn, and there are plenty of people who are so small in their thinking that they don't recognize the benefit of "competition."

[Harold Mansfield]

I don't really see others as competitors either. We are all going to attract certain clients in different ways, and based on certain skills, experiences and personality traits.
None of that is identical across the board.

VG, I don't see you as a competitor..just the opposite. I see you as an asset that I can call upon when a client needs a skill set that I don't, or can't offer.

That's how I kinda feel about others. We don't all do the same thing the same way, so why the animosity from some?

The more I look at this other site that seems to target me personally, the more I am exited to engage is some good old fashioned competition for SERP results.

Just the boost I needed back to basics with my SEO.

But I have to accept the fact that some people are just not social, nor want to network with others.

I can look back at the amount of PM's I have gotten on a webmaster forum that I frequent that have started with "Can you help, I have a client..." or "Need some help with a client site.." that I have answered over the last year and I can say that I don't mind helping others that genuinely need it, or are trying to come up. After all, it was help from and interaction with others that helped me do everything from learn Wordpress and other web skills, to starting my own business doing it.

[seolman]

Steve I'd like to reply, but since we're competitors I can't talk to you anymore. :)

hahaha...

I network with a few competitors where I have found them to be honest (like after I have known them at lest a year). I live in Costa Rica and the competition tends to be fierce. We have even had a few employees contact clients directly and offer them the same work they are doing as an employee for less money :P

Despite this I have managed to make a few pretty good local alliances in SEO and marketing related services.

[vangogh]

Yeah it depends a lot on who the specific competitor is. Do you trust them? Do you like them? Similar to networking with anyone really. I wouldn't exclude someone rom my network just because we compete in some way. There can be a lot of benefits to networking with competitors.

[huggytree]

you can network with competitors, but they must not be 'direct' competitors....each must have a niche market

i network with a drain cleaner...i dont want to do it, so i send everything to him.....in return he sends me repiping jobs a few times a year....i also benefit by him only doing drain cleaning...its something i dont offer...if a steady customer needs a drain cleaned i dont want them calling another plumber...i want to take care of them and assure they dont find someone new.

i also network with a service plumber...he is somewhat a direct competitor, but i exchange jobs for service advice...im not a service guy i do mainly large projects while he does mostly service with some larger projects....what we do overlaps a bit.....when i run into a service question i can call him for advice...i send him projects mostly from new customers that i cant handle....one project turned into a $3k project i could have done once....other than that most of them are $200-300 range.....can he steal my customers ? yes....its a gentleman's agreement not to. once in a while he calls for advice on bidding a large project, but thats pretty rare..when i ask for advice too often i send him a $100 gift certificate....when we take vacations we cover for each other.....you need someone like that...he's a small 1 man shop like me, so he's really not going to steal much from me....i am careful not to name by builders though....when we run into a con man we warn each other.....we talk about 2x a month on average

[Harold Mansfield]

you can network with competitors, but they must not be 'direct' competitors....each must have a niche market

i network with a drain cleaner...i dont want to do it, so i send everything to him.....in return he sends me repiping jobs a few times a year....i also benefit by him only doing drain cleaning...its something i dont offer...if a steady customer needs a drain cleaned i dont want them calling another plumber...i want to take care of them and assure they dont find someone new.

i also network with a service plumber...he is somewhat a direct competitor, but i exchange jobs for service advice...im not a service guy i do mainly large projects while he does mostly service with some larger projects....what we do overlaps a bit.....when i run into a service question i can call him for advice...i send him projects mostly from new customers that i cant handle....one project turned into a $3k project i could have done once....other than that most of them are $200-300 range.....can he steal my customers ? yes....its a gentleman's agreement not to. once in a while he calls for advice on bidding a large project, but thats pretty rare..when i ask for advice too often i send him a $100 gift certificate....when we take vacations we cover for each other.....you need someone like that...he's a small 1 man shop like me, so he's really not going to steal much from me....i am careful not to name by builders though....when we run into a con man we warn each other.....we talk about 2x a month on average

Now that sounds like a nice arrangement ! I imagine relationships like that are pretty rare. I know I don't have any like that, although I have enjoyed pleasant discussions with VG in the past, but haven't been able to exchange any work.

Other than that, I don't really know anyone in the same business. I know of people, but have never communicated with them.

Lately my last 5 jobs have been going behind other Wordpress service providers and cleaning up mistakes or unsatisfactory applications of what the client REALLY wanted, so I probably won't be making any friends there either.

[vangogh]

Harold you need to hook up with some people who work on other CMSs. Or maybe someone who does more backend programming than you do. Not that I really have those connections either, but I think that's how it would work for us. There is one person here in town who's a Flash developer so I can send Flash work his way and he can send PHP work my way.

[Harold Mansfield]

My eyes are always open. Most of the people I run into are looking for someone to drain information from, or are "interested" in some stuff. Never anyone that is doing something.
I'm sure it will come over time.

[vangogh]

I know what you mean. I lucked into the Flash connection. He posted an ad on Craig's List looking for help developing a login system and I responded to his ad. Just worked out. Most of the people I know tend to work on the same things I do. I do have some connections where I can send marketing and seo and copyrighting work, but not too much on the design/development side, which is ok since I can usually do that work on my own.

[Business Attorney]

In the sense that every business lawyer is a "competitor" of mine, I reach out to competitors all the time. I am active in the Chicago Bar Association and have even been chairman of several practice area committees of the bar. I speak on various legal topics, and most of the audience is my competitors. But I also get to hear other attorneys doing the same thing, and I learn a lot in the process.

Of course, Chicago is a big place and with more than 40,000 attorneys in the greater Chicago area, it is hard to look at any one lawyer as a direct competitor. Even in small towns, however, where the 4 or 5 local attorneys really are direct competitors for a more limited amount of legal business, it seems to be pretty common that attorneys treat each other more as colleagues than as competitors.

[vangogh]

Guess it's the way the profession works. Other professions are like that too, while some are completely cutthroat.

Your example of the small town is good. Less potential clients/customers in the small town probably means it's less likely you'll network with the competition, though again it could still be dependent on some specifics. And with 4 or 5 competitors it could come down simply to their individual personalities.

I usually think in most industries the market is large enough to allow for many players. Even if there's someone offering the exact same services as you to the exact same group of people, there's likely some difference between the two of you that leads part of the market to choose one over the other. While technically competing for the same group of clients/customers, no matter what each does some of those clients/customers will naturally choose one over the other and there's likely more than enough clients/customers for both businesses to do well.

For me networking with competitors comes down to the individuals involved. Do I like them? Do I want to see them do well? I'll still network with those people even if it could mean losing a client to them. My thought is another client from that person or someone else will move over to me and even things out.

[billbenson]

In certain types of web sites, there is a lot of networking with competitors for link building (quality content links) and other things. They build up groups of people they trust both as webmasters and ethically.

[vangogh]

True. It's a good way to get links that probably look very good in the eyes of a search engine.

[huggytree]

i know a realitor who gives her new home leads in 1/2 the city to her friend and visa versa...the specialize in different area's and prefer to stay as local as they can.....they obviously have as much work as they need and would prefer to specialize more...a situation like that would make a great partnership...they should work directly with each other out of the same office and split things i always say.

i had a job last week involving a repair on a faucet from 1920...i wont touch it....i called up my service friend and passed it onto him.....as long as he doesnt touch the customer after wards all is well...ill keep giving him work....

ive had several builders call me asking to take over a job from another plumber....i always call that plumber and discuss the new builder...there's typically a reason for the switch and i find most of the time its the builder not the plumber....every time we openly discussed the customer....ive never had a company not with to talk with me....one thing different about us could be that were all union...we all are part of the same group....kinda working together a bit more...i dont want any other plumbers to get screwed..they are my union brothers....i dont want anyone period to get screwed...what comes around goes around....im hoping they will lookout for me someday...

there is certain info i wont share with my competitors (who my customers are), but anything else is fair game...they all can find out my prices by calling up....i openly admit my profit margins (even to builders)..i have no secrets....no one can do it like me (service/quality)...thats my attitude..im not worried about the competition anymore.

[Harold Mansfield]

Since I posted this, I started on a campaign to bury this "competitor" in the serps for the key phrase that he seemed to be trying to take me on and it's going pretty good. Moved myself up to his spot that he took from me (#2 )and pushed him down to the bottom of the results page...on the way to page 2.
It helps that he hasn't done anything new since I noticed him.
I expect him to go on the attack soon. I'm pretty sure he targeted me specifically.
Finally I get to have some fun.

[huggytree]

i just fired my competition networker....after almost 3 years he almost lost me a large customer....he said the wrong thing to a customer...a customer who was in the middle of a project from one of my builders...its got me 2nd guessing the whole concept...

i dont refer people anymore when a 3rd party is involved....if i make a homeowner angry i lose 1 future job....if i make a builder angry i may lose 100's of jobs

[greenoak]

i hear ya huggy!!! that sounds awful...like my friend who is trying to get her dad in a nursing home and the far away brother comes in for a weekend and throws a wrench into the plan...
i do network online with people in my field..thru a couple of forums...
..but since we arent selling on the internet against each other maybe we can be more free and friendly...its really nice and i get lots of good info and good inside talk....
i kind of dissagree with the colleagues quote..i have respect and friendship with some of my worst competitors.and they are actually business friends.....for example ....if im at an auction and we both bid on something, one of us gets it and one doesnt....but we are still colleagues...
.i would not expect a friend in the business not to bid against me..

.and i know the other interesting store in town is after the same customer im after.,,,,but we are still friends...but we are competing ...and one of us will do better than the other....
.she might market better and get their dollars more than me...

[cbscreative]

For the record, Ann, the "colleagues" attitude does not apply to all business models. I made that statement in the context of writers, but it applies to web design and graphics as well. There are certainly people in our industry who are cutthroat, but the best designers and writers learn from each other and have a lot of mutual respect. That attitude about competition would not work for everyone, but I'm sure certain aspects of it still apply.

[greenoak]

right.and i was thinking of some of the other replies too.....altho im sure there is competition in about any group....some just more refined....if a big client has to pick between 2 writers, isn't it about the same as picking between 2 bars for a big party...? ...one gets the money one doesnt...and the writers might feel that if they write better they will get that job instead of their colleague..
.i get your point tho, writers , especially poets or novelists, probably dont feel like they are butting heads like 2 competing stores or 2 competing ad agencies do........

.
in the girl world im in there is a lot of newbie talk about not competing with your neighbor because it isnt nice or i had it first so you shouldnt buy it for your store too, ....they get over that fast...
ann

[cbscreative]

With writing and design, it's a lot more subjective, so competition has a different meaning. If it's two writers for example, it might be very difficult for the client to even choose, so I sympathize with their position. It's not just about skill, or may not be about skill at all, it could be style or even personal experiences. Then there's no right or wrong to the decision. One writer may be better suited to a project for whatever reason, while another writer would be better suited for a completely different project. If you're bent toward jealousy, you won't do well in that environment. In my observation, the vast majority of "artists" appreciate each other, even sharpen each other.

It's true that one has the money and the other doesn't when a client chooses, but next time could easily be the reverse. It's totally different dynamics than if the exact same antique were available in two different stores.

[greenoak]

how you describe the customer choosing the writer fits my business too and lots of others i would guess.... we naturally think the customer can be totally in the dark and not realize they passed up a better company ...us!!!... the buyers choice is always subjective isnt it? so many issues at work when they choose a store to shop in thats for sure...did they like me, the music, the aura of the experience, the kind of deal they got, how nice the salesgirl was, did our taste fit theirs,did we bore them...,,etc etc etc... its not mainly about a single price....

competition is all around me in my auction world, ...i deal with it, i wish they wouldnt be there, i dont look at it as jealousy...i just naturally want everything i want and wish the other guy didnt get it....and he probably feels the same way..naturally..........if we are friends which is usually the case, we bid against each other and then help each other carry big stuff to the truck or loan our cart or dolly... i see us as cutthroat and respectful at the same time....unless you mean cutthroat to mean underhanded and dishonest....

at our actual store we dont have much area competition,,,, no one else in our field has the inventory or space we have or customer base.... other places do compete for our customers dollars tho!!! they could buy their furniture so many other places.... and i try and be aware of that....
this is interesting ..
..have you watched mad men?
i just see competition as a part of business.... and one to be totally aware of....its out there...and can sneak up on about any business i would guess....like when a discount store came to town and ran us out of the record business.....back in the 80s....

[KristineS]

I have to agree with you Ann, competition is part of business. Our job is to convince potential customers that we're better, more valuable, more useful, provide better customer service, etc. than the competition does. I do believe that you can do that and still be cordial with those who are competing with you. I don't see why you have to be disrespectful or dishonest. As you said you can be cutthroat, meaning you go full out to get every bit of business, and still be respectful. That's the model from which I try to work, and it's served our companies well.

[greenoak]

are your companies using facebook kristine? any good results? any good plots?

[KristineS]

One of our companies does use Facebook, Ann, and I'm quite pleased with how it has worked. We use it in conjunction with our web site, blogs and Twitter. It does bring in traffic, but we use it more as a way to interact in real time with our customers. It's fun being able to answer questions and deal with comments as they happen.

I don't happen to be one of those people who thinks a million followers is the way to go. I'm pleased that we have a smaller crowd that knows and likes our company and wants to know what we're up to. We've also pulled several sales from Facebook. I think it has been well worth the time I've spent on it.

[greenoak]

sounds good kristine..... i read a bit of your outdor blog...good points...

[KristineS]

Wow, Ann, the outdoor blogs haven't been updated in a while. I keep saying I'm going to get back to blogging regularly, and then I end up not wanting to blog or having the time.

[greenoak]

i know what you mean..ive been so on facebook ive neglected my magpie blog....i like it a lot but our facebook is really getting the readers and from actual customers...so i feel like i should be there instead of my blog....its just a lot easier or faster for them in guess....