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KristineS
06-29-2010, 01:56 PM
I'm a take charge kind of person. If a group of us were sitting around saying we ought to do something, I'd be the one who had already figured out five ways to do it and what everyone's responsibilities would be. I'm not shy about stepping up (sometimes even when I should be) and I've been in a leadership position a number of times.

I think the fact that I'm comfortable leading is giving me problems with one of my employees. This employee does reasonably well at her job, but she's a total follower. If she has to choose between blue and green she'll wait for me to make the decision. It's driving me nuts.

I've tried to foster a supportive environment and I've worked enough with her on correcting mistakes she's made so she knows that mistakes have consequences, but it's not an "off with her head" situation. I've also tried to give her chances to make decisions, but nothing seems to work.

Any ideas on how to foster leadership, especially when someone doesn't seem inclined to lead? Can this even be done?

vangogh
06-29-2010, 03:13 PM
I think some qualities of leadership can be taught and learned, though a certain amount of of seems to be either in-born or maybe ingrained in the person. There are also so many different leadership styles, some that work better for the leaders and also the followers.

I don't know that you're going to turn someone from a follower into a leader, by offering them a class or similar. However I do think you can improve people's leadership skills in a classroom or other teaching environment. The person still has to want to be a leader and needs to develop certain personal skills to allow them to act on what they know will make them a better leader.

If I'm not mistaken I know a little more about the specific employee you mention here. Knowing what I do I doubt that teaching her is going to help. From the way you've described her elsewhere she doesn't strike me as wanting to take charge in any way in the current environment. It might be her personality keeps her from taking charge or she's afraid to take on the responsibility. My guess it's less the leadership skills she needs and more the personal ones that would enable her to act on the knowledge of how to be more of a leader.

Steve B
06-29-2010, 03:25 PM
Are we really talking about Leadership skills? Or, are you really just trying to see if she will ever become decisive in basic decisions?

If you truly want this person to lead other people, then it sounds like she was a bad hire and you're wasting your time.

Spider
06-29-2010, 05:41 PM
Are we really talking about Leadership skills? Or, are you really just trying to see if she will ever become decisive in basic decisions? ...Steve is right. I don't see in the original post any indication that this is a leadership matter.

To answer the specific question, Yes, leadership can be taught. In the case presented, though, who would this employee lead by way of choosing blue or green? Or, print ad vs magazine ad? Or any other choice? Leadership is about leading people and getting them to do something they would otherwise not do.

So, the leadership question is about your leadership acumen, Kristine, in getting your employee to stup up and be more decisive. Sounds to me like you want your employee to have more confidence in herself and that is another thing entirely for her to be taught.

KristineS
06-29-2010, 06:11 PM
I think you're right Frederick. Maybe I was approaching the subject the wrong way. I'm characterizing it as leadership, when really it is more confidence. I want her to be comfortable making simple decisions, and right now that doesn't happen. Although it would be nice if she would take the lead on projects on occasion, I could live without that. I just want her to feel more confident in herself and make more suggestions.

I try to foster a supportive environment, and it may be that this particular person's personality is just more reticent and timid, but I'd love to at least get her feeling a little more confident.

nealrm
06-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Kristine,
One quick question - Is it OK for her to make a decision that you do not agree with?

vangogh
06-29-2010, 10:51 PM
Good question Neal.

Kristine what if you when she asks you to make a minor decision you don't make it. You force her to make the choice instead. If she gets used to making some easy decisions maybe she'll get in the habit and be able to make tougher decisions later.

KristineS
06-30-2010, 09:30 AM
It is o.k. if she makes a decision I don't agree with, Neal, if she can make a good case for her decision, I'll go with it. I try to foster a supportive environment and don't think I'm draconian about decisions or how things are done.

Vangogh, I have tried the minor decision thing, but it seems to cause her a lot of stress. I can't figure out if it's because she's afraid a wrong decision will get her fired, or if she simply doesn't want the responsibility.

Spider
06-30-2010, 09:48 AM
...I've tried to foster a supportive environment and I've worked enough with her on correcting mistakes she's made so she knows that mistakes have consequences, but it's not an "off with her head" situation. I've also tried to give her chances to make decisions, but nothing seems to work.
..Any ideas ...?Perhaps some of this is due to the manner in which you worked with her on correcting mistakes, Kristine. You saw it as supportively - you said so - but did it come across to her as supportive? The mark of a good leader (you) is in leading in a manner that others will follow, and that manner will be different for each follower.

Certainly mistakes have consequences, and I'll assume that your employee understands that now. In getting that point across, is it possible that she now feels that every decision is a right or wrong choice and that a wrong choice will invoke another of Kristine's supportive training sessions?

I would suggest that most decisions in business are not of a right or wrong nature. Sometimes - most times - it really doesn't matter whether the green is chosen or the blue. Many times, while there may be consequences, the consequences are unforseen and the choice is still arbitrary. These are the decisions you can insist she makes. Just tell her to choose whichever she thinks is best and walk away.

Be sure, later, to praise her for her choice.

Spider
06-30-2010, 09:55 AM
It is o.k. if she makes a decision I don't agree with, Neal, if she can make a good case for her decision, I'll go with it. I try to foster a supportive environment and don't think I'm draconian about decisions or how things are done....Do you ever change a decision of hers that you don't agree with? You might SAY it's okay for her to have a different opinion but ONLY (it seems you are saying) if she can make a good case for it. If you say it's okay and then change her decision, you have ACTED to say it's not okay. Confusion can be even more limiting that lack of confidence.


... I have tried the minor decision thing, but it seems to cause her a lot of stress. I can't figure out if it's because she's afraid a wrong decision will get her fired, or if she simply doesn't want the responsibility.Have you asked her?

dynocat
06-30-2010, 12:43 PM
Good thoughts and ideas here.

It sounds to me like it's a matter of her showing motivation and initiative. Not everyone is cut out for that, for all kinds of reasons. Could it be she doesn't have confidence in herself either from past experience or, less likely, from your previous reactions? Is she a people pleaser who worries about your approval? If so, it may be nearly impossible for her to know how to reason out (and make her case) what the best choice is.

Instead of expecting her to change, you might be better off giving her specific directions and tasks. In this case I think you may need to take over the decision making. That way you have it the way you want/need it, while she does the "grunt" work.

dynocat
06-30-2010, 12:53 PM
A few more thoughts.

I don't know how old this person is and would not judge anyone by that alone. This is my current experience--which has been a new one for me.

I have a 17 yr old grandson who lives with us. He and his group of 6 or so friends are all good kids, not troublemakers, mean or rude. However, none of them know how to make a decision, take initiative or follow through on a plan.

I see it as lack of motivation, but think it's really more basic than that. They do great if someone asks or tells them what to do--very helpful and eager.

Left to their own, however, they seem to get ideas from the wind and change their mind repeatedly in a couple minutes or hours before actually doing anything. In their case they either need to learn how to think for themselves (not sure how or if it's even too late already) or be given specific directions with instructions.

Sorry if this seems off topic, but I'm wondering if your employee fits with what I've seen.

nealrm
06-30-2010, 01:08 PM
Maybe the issue is not making decision, but not understanding the goal. She may work better if you give her very specific goals and then leave the "How to" completly up to her.

KristineS
06-30-2010, 01:25 PM
These are all good suggestions and things to think about.

It is true that I can be very a very decisive and charge ahead kind of person. Maybe I'm bulldozing her without realizing that I'm doing it. That's certainly possible.

vangogh
06-30-2010, 02:32 PM
However, none of them know how to make a decision, take initiative or follow through on a plan.

It could also simply be being 17. Can't say I knew what to do with myself at the age and often appeared indecisive.

"What do you want to do tonight?"
"I don't know. What do you want to do?"

You're at an age at 17 where you haven't really spent all that much time thinking about the direction of your life yet. You certainly know your grandson and his friends better than I do, but could some of what you're seeing simply be being 17?

billbenson
06-30-2010, 04:17 PM
I would think that at some level, making an independent decision is risk taking. Most of us here are risk takers. Thats part of self employment. There are people out there (I know one) who don't want to take any job related risks. The guy that just wants to screw a bolt into a part on an assembly line all his life. He's unemployed and afraid to fill out a job application.

Take me. I'm a fairly shy guy, particularly younger. I took a job and career as a sales person. I was willing to go outside my comfort zone for $$.

I'd say you need to figure out a way to get her to want to leave her comfort zone.

Just a thought.

Blessed
06-30-2010, 11:40 PM
It could also simply be being 17. Can't say I knew what to do with myself at the age and often appeared indecisive.

"What do you want to do tonight?"
"I don't know. What do you want to do?"

You're at an age at 17 where you haven't really spent all that much time thinking about the direction of your life yet. You certainly know your grandson and his friends better than I do, but could some of what you're seeing simply be being 17?

That was never me. I always knew what I wanted to do and had an option b and c lined up too. You could say I'm a take-charge kinda person too. :o it's my personality. Oh, and once we decided what we're going to do - let's get on with it and do it.

I know several people in my immediate peer group who are this way though - and at 35 I'm one of the youngest. I completely understand Kristine's frustration with her employee. In my opinion - people like this employee are typically people-pleaser's who most of the time honestly don't care one way or the other if the group goes with green or with blue - they are just trying to figure out what you would prefer so that they can say and do that. I have to really, really tone down my natural take-charge personality in order to truly find out what those people prefer - because I intimidate them on some level with my aggressiveness, even when I don't mean to come across as aggressive and opinionated and... you get the point.

Fortunately for me, my most recent frustration with people who couldn't make a decision was in a volunteer situation at my church, so I just resigned and took up a different project. I had been teaching in the Sunday School department and the three other ladies I worked with all had great ideas, but didn't want to vocalize them and act on them because they didn't want to overlook anyone else's great idea or hurt anyone's feelings by not using their idea. They are all sweet ladies, great teachers and are getting along just fine without me in the Sunday School Department now. I exchanged frustrating two hour long meetings that should have only taken 30 minutes if people would just say what they were thinking for the job of organizing quarterly presentations, special events, etc... and that works out so much better for all of us. They can focus on the weekly things, and I make sure the big things go smoothly.

vangogh
07-01-2010, 12:56 AM
That was never me. I always knew what I wanted to do and had an option b and c lined up too.

That definitely wasn't me, but I did know people who were like that.

Spider
07-01-2010, 05:18 PM
There's one thing I have learned, Kristine, that applies to this and all other subjects involving other people. It doesn't matter if you are right and they are wrong, or you are this way and they are some other way, you have no control over what they do. You can only control what you do.

If, what you are doing, has a result that you do not want, you cannot change them, you can only change what you are doing - so you must change what you are doing to get a different response from them.

You have to keep changing what you do until you get the response you want from them.

KristineS
07-01-2010, 05:26 PM
You have a good point Frederick.

I will keep trying things until I find something that works.

vangogh
07-01-2010, 06:02 PM
you have no control over what they do. You can only control what you do.

Great point Frederick.

Kristine where I have heard that before…hmm?

Spider
07-02-2010, 10:07 AM
You have a good point Frederick.
I will keep trying things until I find something that works.But go about it methodically. I am currently studying Motivational DNA, with the view to creating a training program based on M-DNA.

It is often said that you cannot motivate other people and they cannot motivate you - you can only motivate yourself. However, every manager that ever was tries to motivate and inspire his staff - otherwise, you hardly need the manager!

M-DNA is based on the Drives (D), Needs (N) and Awards (A) that cause people to be motivated.

D - Drives - People are driven to Produce or to Connect - They are either primarily thing-oriented (Producers) or primarily people-oriented (Connectors.) Sounds like your girl is a Connector.

N - Needs - People need either Stability or Variety in their lives - They are either primarily stable, routine, system people (Stabilizers) or they are primarily fidgety people who need variety in their lives (Variables) - Sounds like your girl is a Stabilzer.

A - Awards - People do things for personal gain, which may be primarily Internal rewards, like satisfaction, pride, etc, or primarily External, like perks, prizes and bonuses. Sounds like your girl is an Internal.

From what you have said, your girl sounds like her M-DNA is CSI - Connector, Stabilizer, Internal.

If this is accurate, you can now be guided into motivating her decision-making power by - for example - giving her a small committee with which to make decisions (appealing to her Connector drive,) give this committee a definite structure and clearly defined power (creating a Stable environment within which she can work,) and making her the head of that committee (giving her status as an Internal award.)

There may be other parts of her character that you did not describe and which throw my analysis out of whack, but hopefully, this will give you a basis on which to create an environment that motivates your employee. To her satisfaction and your own.

Please let me know how this works for you, or if it does not - it will help me in creating my M-DNA program.

Harold Mansfield
07-03-2010, 11:42 AM
Just to answer the original question:
I think you can teach management, but you can't teach leadership.
I think leadership skills are something that are developed from childhood on and rely heavily on confidence, education and intelligence.

Usually by the time an adult comes to you, they either have it or they don't.
Even in the military, where they undoubtedly have the best leadership training on the planet, yes, they can teach NCO's and Officers to do the work and pass the tests, but that doesn't make them a good leader...they had to have the potential when they got there.