Energy efficient heating and power solutions for homes

[deejaykelly]

Hi all,

I recently graduated from a Construction management course and also have some experience working in the construction industry. For my final year dissertation I decided to research and write about sustainable construction and how the demand for more environmentally friendly construction methods will increase in the next decade.

Once I finished my research I realised that the market for the use of heating and energy systems that harness the power the sun, wind, etc will increase quite dramatically, especially as the government has introduced legislation that requires new homes to meet certain energy efficiency and CO2 targets.

My idea is to set up a business that provides various systems that can be installed in residential buildings (from design to installation). Examples are solar energy systems, high efficiency home insulation solutions and even glazing.

Many housing developers are beginning to implement these systems in their new homes but there is also a big demand for retrofitting these to existing buildings.

Sorry for the long post but could anyone advise me on this idea e.g. is it a good idea? If so, what would my next step be to try and get it off the ground?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Patrysha]

It is certainly a growing industry...I wouldn't have a clue where to start something like that, though I'd have a few ideas on marketing a business like that.

How much business and work experience do you have? Do you have contacts within the construction industry?

[Spider]

There is a need, I accept that - and that need will grow as time passes, I'm sure. However, I'm not convinced there is a demand. Demand and need are far from being the same thing.

I have considerable experience in the construction industry and, although I am retired from it now, I still have a great interest in it. Once a builder, always a builder!

Has your research brought to light that a demand for "green" building now exists. Currently, I am having a great deal of difficulty finding environmentally-friendly flooring that will serve my purposes. I have only seen alternative energy options that are too expensive or unavailable.

There are a lot of great ideas out there and plenty of people that say they would buy them if they could, but I think the price is still blocking demand. What have you found out that overcomes the price objection and makes "green" building components economically viable?

[huggytree]

i work on 'green' houses...the builder does SIPS (Styrofoam houses)...he does everything green possible and exceeds the European standards....he's almost out of business because no one wants to pay 50% more for a plain looking house just to save energy.

Green idea's never make sense financially....their payback is always so far out there and many times realistically they never pay them selves back....i learned how to do solar hot water heating....i never sold one of my systems because even w/ government rebates up to 40% they still wouldnt pay them selves back for 15 years....the industry says 8 years, but when i calculated it it was never close...their savings was very unrealistic.

new homes not being built....the industry is almost gone around here...only the cut rate guys build a few here and there...and most are almost out of business i hear...all the mid and upper price guys are getting full time jobs somewhere else...i used to rough plumbing in on 2 houses a week....now i may have finally sold ONE house this whole year.

i wouldnt get into anything with new homes...that market is dead and may never come back...in the next 10-15 years the baby boomers will start dying..there will be tons of existing homes....i dont see anything positive long term for new homes..

i focus on remodeling and additions...im constantly fighting homeowners trying to skimp on quality to save money...your product will not be cheap..right now cheap is what people want when it comes to homes

before id start a new company in construction id get a job for a builder and learn the business...if things get better in 5 years you can start out on your own then and you'll have alot of experience in the field.....remodeling is where the money is, so id always recommend that route.. new homes are only 2-10% profit while remodeling is 20-30% profit

[billbenson]

Are you willing to relocate? Its possible that if you run the numbers for areas with money and think green such as parts of CA in conjunction with areas with strong need ie AZ FL, or the cold states might show a more viable business?

[Zatch]

As people are continuing to identify the problems that are coming to our nature. They will certainly look for this as time past. At first before you start this kind of business you can do some surveys so that you can know how many are likely to avail your products. You must do a research first about this kind of business you are going to take on. Researching is essential in any kind of business because it will give you more ideas on how you are going to run your business. You must take a deep study on this because this will cause you a lot of money.

[huggytree]

there will never be a time where the average person puts the 'good of the earth' ahead of the COST.

human nature makes us self centered. Some people will, but 90% wont.

look at Al Gore...perfect and extreme example....he doesn't do a thing that he preaches about....he wants you to change, but he's polluting and living large.

until Green makes financial sense most people wont do it.....right now being green means paying 2x for something and never getting the payback just to 'feel' good

people want to buy Green until they hear the price....i deal with it every week with my products....i still have only sold 1 tankless water heater EVER...why? they cost 3-4x just to save $15 a month in energy costs.

the whole Green thing is a con by businessmen....just a sales technique... its in fashion, so business is using it to attract buyers

[Patrysha]

I really don't know about that huggytree...

Our family will be going tankless and partially solar when we can afford it. It is more expensive so it will take longer to save for it than replacing the tank right away and we may have to settle in the meantime because we're not sure how much longer we have...but we will go with the most efficient one we can afford when the inevitable happens.

Now I don't know whether our family is typical or a-typical in that regard...but there's got to be more than just our family that does want and would pay for more environmentally friendly options that just can't afford it yet...

It's not about the savings in energy costs. It's about the long term costs to the environment and doing what we can to do the best we can with what we've got...

I am far from a treehugger or an environmentalist...and I don't always do the environmentally correct thing...but just because the market isn't biting isn't necessarily a sign that the desire isn't there. I sure hope the local guy I've been discussing water heaters yet doesn't think we're duds just because we haven't bought yet.

[billbenson]

there will never be a time where the average person puts the 'good of the earth' ahead of the COST.


Since when is the market the "average person" ? Just because it didn't work for you using your marketiing methods with your client market sample (ie huggies customers) doesn't mean there aren't incredible markets for it. I bet every house in Beverly Hills has a tankless heater and solar panels for the pool.

The charts I've seen in the news show green products manufacturers with growing not shrinking or stagnant sales.

[huggytree]

are the 'green' products which are growing actually 'green?'

in construction every builder now says he's green...its all BS...i only know of 3 which really are, yet there are probably 50+ who say they are...

green can mean anything and or nothing

that tankless water heater for example...when its running its using 5x the typical BTU's....and the tankless guys say most people see an increase in their gas bills because family members now can take endless showers and not worry....so is it really green?

i know of a electric water heater which is SUPER efficient...about the same price as a tankless and much more efficient....the problem is it takes heat out of the air and takes 10 hours to recover..so you have to stagger your family's showers..some in the morning and some at night...yes its Super Green....no one will ever buy this thing!!!...

yes Green products are growing, but most are just a 'little' green

a true green product costs 2-4x as much and works 1/2 as well as the normal product.

the average consumer will never put the environment ahead of his pocketbook!...if the costs were the same we'd all do it....it wouldnt be green then...it would just be 'smart'

is a Prius green? what about the battery? where is it disposed of? what about the manufacturing process of that battery?......a Prius is becoming smart the higher gasoline prices go....ive seen estimates which talk about a few year payback on the premium price...and if you get hit by a SUV your dead or injured....that couple of thousand in gas savings isnt worth risking your life to most people......once again is green really green or just a perception to make the sale.

green is just a marketing con...its a fad that everyone must sell to

[Patrysha]

Uh huggytree...maybe your attitude and your beliefs have more to do with why you aren't selling the green products...you aren't even trying to get into the heads of your target market. You think it's all about cost...it's not. It is simply not.

The best targets for this type of product are not just people like you...

[billbenson]

Huggy, the original poster has spent a year researching this subject. You have stated in past posts that advanced education is worthless so you obviously think he knows nothing.

I forget if you said you have sold 1 tankless water heater or none. For that reason, structures existing and new won't use new energy saving technologies and they don't work anyway. Contractors that pitch them are scam artists.

Looking at your website you bury the mention of a tankless water heater in a paragraph about a tank water heater you recommend. You state that the tank water heater is 90% efficient and the tankless is 85%. In effect you are saying I'll install a tankless water heater if you like, but the tank water heater is better.

Hell of a pitch for tankless water heaters Huggy. If the rest of your propaganda on tankless water heaters is like your web site of course your not going to sell them. Your telling your customers not to buy from that.

From that information, you extrapolate that there is no market in the US for energy efficient structures or anything "green". Have you ever noticed that wind turbines are popping up everywhere with wind to generate electricity. Thats "green". But I guess think thats a scam to.

I'll go with the grad student who spent a year studying the subject over someone who has an opinion with no facts to base them on.

[huggytree]

i see wind power around here....most of the time they arent moving

wind power wont work because what do you do when its a calm day? shut down the factories or cut power to 1/2 your customers?...its a bit of a scam in my opinion...

i have given up on tankless long ago...its true...i am pushing that 90% tank version and selling them regularly...with all the rebates its actually a decent deal...you probably break even after 10 years...not a great deal, but a fair deal if your green.

i gave up after the 20th tankless bid w/o a sell...i try to sell higher end versions and the homeowners buy the junk versions...i dont install junk....Home Depot sells one which is popular...its not even rated for 1 shower...in the winter you get a luke warm shower. plus i get calls to repair them monthly.

i dont push anything green really...i do tell people i recycle the metal pipes i cut out..most dont care.

im asked constantly to pull the GPM reducers out of shower heads and install shower systems with 6 shower heads regularly....not very green of me

my customers want fixtures that work.

i recently wrote a story for the local remodeler association magazine about green plumbing..dual flush toilets is all i could come up with...i spent more time discussing how we have no water shortage here in WI and that people want high flow fixtures...they actually are going to print it!

[billbenson]

Hi all,

I recently graduated from a Construction management course and also have some experience working in the construction industry. For my final year dissertation I decided to research and write about sustainable construction and how the demand for more environmentally friendly construction methods will increase in the next decade.

Once I finished my research I realised that the market for the use of heating and energy systems that harness the power the sun, wind, etc will increase quite dramatically, especially as the government has introduced legislation that requires new homes to meet certain energy efficiency and CO2 targets.

My idea is to set up a business that provides various systems that can be installed in residential buildings (from design to installation). Examples are solar energy systems, high efficiency home insulation solutions and even glazing.

Many housing developers are beginning to implement these systems in their new homes but there is also a big demand for retrofitting these to existing buildings.

Sorry for the long post but could anyone advise me on this idea e.g. is it a good idea? If so, what would my next step be to try and get it off the ground?

Any help would be much appreciated.

But what does that have to do with the original posters question, huggy? He wants to advice on setting up a business selling and installing products in a growing area.


wind power wont work because what do you do when its a calm day? shut down the factories or cut power to 1/2 your customers?...its a bit of a scam in my opinion...

Again, an opinion based on zero research or fact.


In the year 2004, wind energy in California produced 4,258 million kilowatt-hours of electricity, about 1.5 percent of the state's total electricity. That's more than enough to light a city the size of San Francisco.

You want to tell me there isn't a market there and its a scam?

[Steve B]

It seems that everyone's opinion is correct on this thread. HT said the "average" person won't buy "green" unless it makes financial sense. I've read lots of things that support this position. BUT, there is also a sizeable market for green products. There can easily be a sizeable and very profitable market without it being the majority of the market.

There are also a lot of ways to evaluate what being green truly is and how effective things really are. It has become a bit of a meaningless term when people are finding weird ways to put themselves in a green category just for a marketing bullet point (i.e. recycling old pipes).

I'm probably missing the boat on marketing being green, because I'm the only dog fence guy in my area that has a rechargeable collar. But, I doubt it's important enough to enough people to make a bullet point out of it.

[huggytree]

uh Patryta

im not the target market true...im a pretty average guy

this poster asked about 'green' construction....yes i know alot about it since i work for the most 'green' builder in my area... he's almost out of business.

True 'green' building costs too much and typically is a very plain building...no one wants to pay 50 percent more, get a plain house and wait 50 years to get a payback (if it ever comes)

they want to pay a low price and 'think' they are getting 'green' because their builder told them hes green

very, very, very few people will pay 50 percent more for a 50 year+ payback......there's a market, but its not 10 percent.....it may not be 1 percent......50+ percent will buy green if its 5 percent more(i think)....but you cant get a true green anything for 5 percent more...especially not in construction.