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KristineS
08-29-2008, 08:22 AM
How often do you update your informational material like brochures and information sheets? Do they just change when something about the product or service changes? Do you update them (at least alter the look a little) every six months or so?

Do you even have printed materials?

vangogh
08-29-2008, 11:58 AM
No printable materials for me since most of my marketing is online. It's a good question and I guess how often to change materials depends on what's in there. Ideally I would think the information in a brochure is more timeless so it doesn't need to be changed until you're ready to change it.

orion_joel
08-30-2008, 09:40 AM
In the IT industry it almost seems like having brochures is pointless, or at least spending a lot keeping them up to date can cost big dollars. It is usually better to get what you can from the suppliers, and just get ones for the new products as they come out. While it is not as customized and personal as doing it within your own business may be, it gives the information you need to and saves the money for other things. most of them do have an area to put a sticker or stamp with your company details on though so it can be personalized that little bit.

KristineS
08-30-2008, 10:28 AM
We have some literature like that Joel. We just add a sticker or some other modification to personalize it a little.

I do like making our own stuff though. We have some pretty high design standards and what we get from others isn't always able to meet those standards.

Paul Elliott
09-23-2008, 09:33 PM
While it is not as customized and personal as doing it within your own business may be, it gives the information you need to and saves the money for other things. most of them do have an area to put a sticker or stamp with your company details on though so it can be personalized that little bit.

Joel, a good printer can add your information and make it look like it was made for you. That is more professional than stamps (most) or labels, IMO.

That's likely why Kristine produces her own.

Paul

Blessed
09-23-2008, 11:06 PM
In the IT industry it almost seems like having brochures is pointless, or at least spending a lot keeping them up to date can cost big dollars. It is usually better to get what you can from the suppliers, and just get ones for the new products as they come out. While it is not as customized and personal as doing it within your own business may be, it gives the information you need to and saves the money for other things. most of them do have an area to put a sticker or stamp with your company details on though so it can be personalized that little bit.

I'll second what Paul said and also note that if you are willing to ask usually those companies have PDF files or even the original files of those brochures that they will let their suppliers have. If you give those to a printer, they can add your info into the right spot and make it look like it is your own brochure - you don't spend any money in design then, just in printing.

A few of the HVAC companies around here do that - the really ambitious ones pay me to put their logo on the pictures of the equipment where the logo goes - gotta love Photoshop. :D

Paul Elliott
09-23-2008, 11:39 PM
. . . usually those companies have PDF files or even the original files of those brochures that they will let their suppliers have. . . . A few of the HVAC companies around here do that - the really ambitious ones pay me to put their logo on the pictures of the equipment where the logo goes - gotta love Photoshop. :D

Excellent touch, Jenn.

orion_joel
09-24-2008, 01:02 AM
I do agree that printed is in almost every respect better then a sticker or stamp, however many of the brochures or catalouge's that i have had don't really lend themselves to printing being that mostly are A4 and multiple page, so to print on them would be very time consuming and mean having to probably somehow take the brochure apart and put it back together.

Some i have do offer the PDF option, which is good as well, plus one supplier actually has a DIY pick your layout, pick your products, set your prices and puts your details on then emails it to you as a PDF, it is all automated and as such is a similar layout every time but it means you can quickly put together marketing collateral.

Paul Elliott
09-24-2008, 11:59 AM
. . . plus one supplier actually has a DIY pick your layout, pick your products, set your prices and puts your details on then emails it to you as a PDF, it is all automated and as such is a similar layout every time but it means you can quickly put together marketing collateral.

That's good that they give you that option.

Paul

KristineS
09-24-2008, 12:10 PM
It does amaze the that some companies don't have easily customizable pieces for distributors. That type of stuff is so valuable and such a great way to get your company name and information in front of more eyes.

orion_joel
09-25-2008, 11:15 PM
Kristine more so the amazing thing for me is that especially from a distributor point of view providing easily customizable marketing pieces (even professionally printing them, at a minimal cost for resellers) can i think increase the business or the perceived value from the distributor to the reseller massively.

For example, that supplier that offers those customizable marketing material's any brand they distribute, they are often the first place i will look. Because if a customer asks for one of there products i know i can go and quickly print off something that is customized and looks professional. (it kind of helps i have a good quality laser printer on hand or even put it to PDF and email it). It helps you look a lot more professional that you can so quickly put together something and email it with your name and the specific products with details they have asked about.

Paul Elliott
09-26-2008, 12:21 AM
It does amaze the that some companies don't have easily customizable pieces for distributors. That type of stuff is so valuable and such a great way to get your company name and information in front of more eyes.

Kristine, there are only 2 kinds of companies: those who do and those who will. Some take longer to learn than others. The rest will die out. ;)

Paul

KristineS
09-26-2008, 04:28 PM
Kristine more so the amazing thing for me is that especially from a distributor point of view providing easily customizable marketing pieces (even professionally printing them, at a minimal cost for resellers) can i think increase the business or the perceived value from the distributor to the reseller massively.



You're definitely right about that Joel. It's a proven fact that well done marketing materials can help sell products and companies.

These types of materials also give the manufacturing company control over how their products are being presented by distributors. I'm shocked by some companies who will spend so much money to publicize and brand a product, and then completely drop the ball when it comes to helping distributors promote it.

orion_joel
09-27-2008, 01:34 AM
Even worse i think is after spending so much money marketing the product they make so little information easily accessible to the distributors. There are seriously some products that i could sell so easily if i could answer a couple of questions quickly. But sometimes it can take days and multiple emails to multiple different people to try and get a simple yes or no on a feature in a product.

KristineS
09-27-2008, 07:49 AM
Bureaucracy is a wonderful thing.

A lot of companies do manage to get in their own way when it comes to helping distributors. It's almost like they try to put obstacles in the way of a distributor making a sale. I don't think they do it intentionally, but it seems to happen a lot.

orion_joel
09-27-2008, 10:23 AM
I think that a great deal of this comes back to the same topic as some of the other threads we have had recently about large companies. Many Wholesalers tend to be large companies (not all but many are) and even more so in the wholesale market margins are tighter and they just do not have any idea that if they helped out distributors more they would turnover more and make more profit.

KristineS
09-27-2008, 12:17 PM
I think they tend to go one of two ways. Either they have draconian rules about absolutely everything and distributors have no say, or they don't regulate anything or help the distributors at all.

Either way they're not getting the full potential out of the relationship.

orion_joel
09-28-2008, 02:04 AM
It is just really to bad the barrier to entry to the wholesale market is so great. As i think that in many markets there would be a major opening for a distributor that put a lot into providing their distributor's with that bit extra.

KristineS
09-28-2008, 10:00 AM
I'm guessing you're right Joel, but that probably won't happen in most industries. One of the major barriers would be keeping your distributors supplied with product. You have to have an infrastructure in place to make that happen. If you don't, then your distributors are left short of product and can't fill orders which causes a very bad chain reaction.

We're experiencing that now with one of our wholesalers and it's very annoying. There are enough obstacles to making a sale already without adding lack of product to the mix.

orion_joel
09-29-2008, 11:59 PM
Lack of ability to maintain the supply of goods to your distributors can really come from two sources.

The first is financial, which is the wholesaler needs the funds available to maintain the volume of business done on account both with their suppliers and their distributors. I cannot understand how some of the wholesalers that i do business with can manage to give their clients 30 day from end of month accounts (could be up to 61 days from the goods leaving their doors) and being able to fund the purchases to maintain decent level's of stock. For larger companies they should be able to structure some sort of finance agreement, however for smaller wholesaler's i do not see it as a viable business structure. Although for the most part many seem to be surviving on it.

The second problem is not always with their control and that is supply from their suppliers. Especially for manufacturers the raw material supply can often be far from regular. I have had some orders with suppliers take over 2 months to deliver because the company that manufactured the item, had under estimated demand for one very small part and as such come up short and put their whole production line behind.

Weather it is within their control or not, i think that there could be big money in the wholesale area that could provide at better levels then is now. Some of it may even be in the way of need to do things different to how they are being done in that market now. As it stands the wholesalers have pretty much were the source that started downfall of profit margins in the IT industry by pretty much opening their doors to anyone that had visions of going into business.

Marcomguy
10-11-2008, 07:21 PM
With all the desktop design and printing technology available, it's easy to create or customize collateral for a short print run - even 25-50 copies. And the output is quite professional-looking.

Apologies to any commercial printers here, reading this and cringing! I feel the same way when I see some DIY copy out there.

orion_joel
10-11-2008, 09:27 PM
Marcomguy, i don't know that you would find to many commercial printer's here cringing. Unless you mean print shops. I do exactly as you mentioned for small runs, maybe a stretch to 100 copies, on a colour laser printer, the quality is quite good. However while it would still cost more for me to go and get a larger run done on colour laser at a print store, it would work out cheaper to get say 500 done with a commercial printer with offset printing.

The thing is it would cost to much to do small runs by offset printing even though it may give the best quality, with the set-up and such i think it would be cost prohibitive, and while the printer may make slightly more by a high price per page, i think they generally prefer the larger runs.

Blessed
10-12-2008, 12:12 AM
MarcomGuy I'm cringing... I'm a graphic designer and I see so many do-it-yourself marketing materials that look awful. Especially if someone tries to do a tri-fold brochure, or those punch them out yourself business cards. To me, if you are too cheap to have something done professionally I start wondering what other corners you are cutting. I'm not saying that every do-it-yourself marketing piece is bad, just most of them.

Oh and Orion_joel you need to find a printer that does digital printing - no plates, no film, straight from computer to press. They aren't cost effective for large runs but are for smaller runs so you might find some better pricing than you've seen before if you can find a local printer that has a digital press.

orion_joel
10-12-2008, 02:19 AM
Except for the cost of the Printer which was about $3,000 it costs me about 35-40cents to print full colour A4 single side. For the same the lowest digital colour printers in the area i have been able to find is about 90cents, with almost no difference in quality. Mine actually comes out slightly better quality because unless you pay more most of the digital printers here use a standard paper, where i use a specific colour laser paper which gives a smoother finish.

I would no doubt expect that the setup i have is an exception to the vast majority. If i needed more then about 100 copies though then the pricing is almost on par at the digital printers even with the better paper. So even though i have the equipment, it is easier for larger runs to get someone else to do it. Plus business cards or anything that requires alignment i dont attempt. I have tried doing A5 catalogs and trifold brochures, but even though the print quality was up there i could not get the alignment so just save myself many more hours trying to get it right and got it done professionally.

Marcomguy
10-12-2008, 11:23 AM
Blessed, I agree. For 90% of the customers out there, "good enough" is enough. The other 10% seek out professionals like us.

Steve B
10-12-2008, 03:26 PM
I pay 11 cents each for 2 sided - color brochures - folded. I get them done via Vistaprint - so I didn't have to buy any equipment. The only catch is that I buy 5,000 at a time. But, I go through that many in a few months sometimes.

orion_joel
10-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Steve i could probably get similar prices on that quantity, that is the difference though if i went to them wanting 50 of the same thing they probably would be charging me more then 11 cents. On the same key i would probably end up with 4500 out of date brochures in a years time if i got 5000 printed so it is really a question of which is more economical.

greenoak
10-12-2008, 09:24 PM
i kind of know i need new pictures on my website.is that collateral? ..especially the first page...but the problem is i dont want to replace a picture with a worse one...so do i keep it better looking for all the new viewers or change for the returners? lots of folks tell me they like to go to the site just to look around....
getting pictures as good as we have hasnt been easy...we are not skilled at photos...
this is bugging me and my solution is to update the now in pictures more often...and maybe some inner pictures.....and leave the front page alone and hope for a new good picture....the pictures on the front page are still pretty accurate about the store...
also i have discovered some new words to try within the site for my main targets...women in big trucks....who need my furniture....
as far as paper is concerned we do all our own and can customize it when we need to...
ann

Steve B
10-13-2008, 08:42 AM
You're right Joel - if you get only 100 at a time, you will pay $1.00 for each brochure instead of 11 cents. Depending on how many you go through - the math will tell you if it's worth it for the $3,000 printer in order to save 65 cents per brochure.

orion_joel
10-14-2008, 01:57 AM
To date taking into account Depreciation and such, i believe that i am ahead on costs. That is over about 4 years though. If i used it about twice as often as i have (and there is good potential to do so and still be looking at small runs). It would have probably saved me hundreds of dollars.

Paul Elliott
10-15-2008, 04:21 PM
Ann, great to see you back!!


i kind of know i need new pictures on my website.is that collateral? ..especially the first page...but the problem is i dont want to replace a picture with a worse one...so do i keep it better looking for all the new viewers or change for the returners? lots of folks tell me they like to go to the site just to look around....
getting pictures as good as we have hasnt been easy...we are not skilled at photos...
this is bugging me and my solution is to update the now in pictures more often...and maybe some inner pictures.....and leave the front page alone and hope for a new good picture....the pictures on the front page are still pretty accurate about the store...
also i have discovered some new words to try within the site for my main targets...women in big trucks....who need my furniture....
as far as paper is concerned we do all our own and can customize it when we need to...
ann

Try making a local photographer a killer deal on some antiques to take "action shots" over 90 days for you. You could also agree to have as part of the title of each picture "Professional Photography by XXX.com" or something like that.

A skilled professional photographer can likely take 100-150 great shots in 1/2 a day. Do that on several days and you have a really nice group of shots.

There are web utilities that will rotate the picture sets with every hit, so you have changing pictures all the time.

I've done several agreements like that with good mutual benefit.

BTW, how's the antique business in this down market? Slow like most others? Have you "worked" your list?

Paul

greenoak
10-15-2008, 05:35 PM
somehow, its been even or great really....but we are hybrid between antique and recycled furniture..we are more of a lifestyle home decor destination shop...we used to be pure...

...the antique business has really changed drastically in the last 10 yrs..and so have we...
...an old timer told me once that a down market was good for antiques.
i love antiques tho...
ann

Paul Elliott
10-15-2008, 05:44 PM
somehow, its been even or great really....but we are hybrid between antique and recycled furniture..we are more of a lifestyle home decor destination shop...we used to be pure...

Great. So, your business is counter-cyclical, at least to some extent. People will be recycling rather than buying as much new in a down market.


...the antique business has really changed drastically in the last 10 yrs..and so have we...
...an old timer told me once that a down market was good for antiques.
i love antiques tho...
ann

What are the major changes in the antique market?

Paul

greenoak
10-15-2008, 10:27 PM
thanks for the nice welcome paul....

the antique world has tanked.the top 5% of the market is still great maybe but the mass of us in the middle have had dramatic downturn...our wonderful wholesale business virtually ended because most of our customers closed up, shows have slowed down, malls have closed all over the country........its down all over the country.
.im afraid it is a deep change of style..a change in how people decorate...when we started making big collections was popular....being surrounded with lots of stuff..our store is one of the few survivors in our area...
..i never thought i would see values go down and they have...and during the good years in the 90s.... now my new young homeowners want less stuff, and a whole different look....they cant tell made in japan from majolica!!! and dont care....

of course the collectible world has tanked , so deservedly imho, and thats not about antiques...beanies, boyds bears, collectors plates, etc etc... i believe if something is sold as collectible wont be...you cant manufacture that....
im glad to be back on here and i have some hard questions for later..... i always learn a lot here...
ann

Paul Elliott
10-15-2008, 11:00 PM
im glad to be back on here and i have some hard questions for later..... i always learn a lot here...
ann

Thanks for the insight in the market changes.

Fire away on the questions!

Paul

greenoak
10-16-2008, 09:25 AM
well here is my delimma.....this year our website has brought us at least 6 new customers in my target market, they have bought about 250 pcs of furniture for about $70,000..that is a real number to us!!!!..one other one is contemplating coming , needing about 100 antique pieces..and another outfitting 6 new stores in old downtowns,,,..and maybe 10 more have called and we are on their mind but they havent figured out how yet.......
one who came , over 1000 miles with a big truck,!!! told me she couldnt believe how many times our name popped up as she googled to find the person who met her needs.....she is starting a store and wants it to look like ours....
im sure they all came because of the wonderful pictures on our website,,,,that really speak to the interested people....
typically the customer emails me a few times, then a phonecall, then the arrangements to get here...
these wonderful customers are all over the place....one has a high class birdstore, and needed us for store fixtures,,the new mexico girl needed stock and displays for her store, a canadian needed stock to sell and filled a semi, she bought our cupboards mainly,,,a garden center needed lots of big cottage gardeny type displays...another is contemplating several stores in old downtowns,,,,.
in other words they are all over the place...i asked what they googled...and it was mostly antiques wholesale...and i know we come up very high in shabby and cottage too....they were all very happy with what they got and the prices...our name comes up on the first page of google in a lot of what i would guess are some of our key words...

so heres my question....how do i find more of these wonderful customers? they dont hang out together anywhere on the net that i can find, i only know a couple of store forums. and im on them...and they have produced lots of smaller customers for us.... most of them only need us once,,,for their set up...
how can i market to these potential customers ?
what would the keywords even be? i look at the keywords we get on statcounter and they are all over the place, tons of teeny specific things, like harvest table, primitive wholesale, shabby vanity, no trend...still my site has brought us this great business that we can fill easily...and at a right price for the buyers...

i sure dont want to change my website....but i could add some new part on it.or a whole new site, ..the site gets mentioned all the time regionally too, for the bulk of our retail customers who are maybe an hour or 2 away......the site is working so well i dont want to change it...

so where i should be looking for this new business ? i dont know what else to do ..i dont know where to find these new customers....
im considering :
a new blog just aimed at them, and putting more furniture and prices on it...i could work a blog easily and i dont want a shopping cart anyway.....thinking mainly current pictures and prices..if it worked i might go for a selling website...a new one...

im not considering a shopping cart or doing big shows or shippping.....i want to be what we have always been...a cash and carry destination...
cant wait for your help on this one!!! i really think i have huge potential on this if i can figure out the route...i can spend money on this...but to do what?
so theres my question!!! love to hear any views on it....
thanks...ann

Paul Elliott
10-16-2008, 04:18 PM
OK, Ann, you've given us a lot to chew on. I'll start with a few things.


well here is my delimma.....this year our website has brought us at least 6 new customers in my target market, they have bought about 250 pcs of furniture for about $70,000..that is a real number to us!!!!

That certainly makes your site worth it, doesn't it!? You've already turned it into a separate profit center. That should be the goal of every small business.


..one other one is contemplating coming , needing about 100 antique pieces..and another outfitting 6 new stores in old downtowns,,,..and maybe 10 more have called and we are on their mind but they havent figured out how yet.......
one who came , over 1000 miles with a big truck,!!! told me she couldnt believe how many times our name popped up as she googled to find the person who met her needs.....she is starting a store and wants it to look like ours....

How about offering this customer a consulting contract on a monthly retainer. An addititional benefit of that contract to that customer could be an additional percentage off all purchases.

It would appear that your visitors probably fall into at least 4 categories, perhaps more.

1) Wholesale business to other dealers from a distance
2) Wholesale business to other businesses doing their own interior decorating
3) Local retail business
4) Wholesale to interior designers

You can appeal to each of them with a slightly different approach.


im sure they all came because of the wonderful pictures on our website,,,,that really speak to the interested people....
typically the customer emails me a few times, then a phonecall, then the arrangements to get here...

Here is the tipoff that excellent photography will help your site appeal even more.

You can consider setting up your site with detailed pictures with retail prices. List volume pricing where appropriate.

Then set up pages for dealers, interior designers, and volume sales. Each of these pages can have a form designed to qualify the applicants. Once they "qualify" you can tell them of special pricing, shipping, etc.

More later.

Paul

greenoak
10-17-2008, 09:38 AM
thanks paul...this is the kind of things im working on, and youve helped me focus on some things that would really help and be doable......im going to work on getting some of these ideas together in one spot better...
the site is doing a fair to good job...where to promote it is the big hurdle.....
i know my target buyers are out there!!!

i like this community so much, even tho you are far from my decorator foo foo world, your views are refreshing..i m not tekkie at all buti appreciate all theinfo...

.on the net, im mostly in the girly , just starting up, world , where a whole lot of talk is about you go girl!!! your idea is great!!!,this will work if you have passion,!!! live your dream!!, etc etc... ...with little or no criticism, disesecting or overall views...
i need the manly wheres the beef sometimes....... one guy on here last year, told me my site made him sick!!! now that was really refreshing.lol.... you wouldnt hear that in the girly world...unless it was a cat fight....
.ann

Paul Elliott
10-17-2008, 11:42 AM
thanks paul...this is the kind of things im working on, and youve helped me focus on some things that would really help and be doable......im going to work on getting some of these ideas together in one spot better...
the site is doing a fair to good job...where to promote it is the big hurdle.....

You should better profile your target customers, first. Without a well-defined description of your target--demographics, problems to be solved, hot buttons, what else do they buy, what do they avoid, etc., etc.--you will waste a lot of time, energy, effort, AND money.

Don't go looking until you know what you're looking for.


i know my target buyers are out there!!!

Absolutely! And the ocean is full of fish, but if you simply go to the middle and throw in a baited hook, you will likely spend years without a bite. I'm sure you would plan better than that for an ocean fishing trip. You need to do similar preparations for a customer fishing trip.

What species of customers are you seeking, where do they swim, what kind of bait do they like, when do they like it, what other market conditions influence when they feed, etc.? Be smart in planning your fishing trip.

The stakes are much higher than a deep sea fishing trip, so do a more complete job of preparation.


.on the net, im mostly in the girly , just starting up, world , where a whole lot of talk is about you go girl!!! your idea is great!!!,this will work if you have passion,!!! live your dream!!, etc etc... ...with little or no criticism, disesecting or overall views...

Again, this comes under the heading of proper planning. You don't want advice from those who will not mention that the emperor has no clothes.


i need the manly wheres the beef sometimes....... one guy on here last year, told me my site made him sick!!! now that was really refreshing.lol.... you wouldnt hear that in the girly world...unless it was a cat fight....
.ann

I don't think Van Gogh will permit any hair pulling here. ;)

As a person who has seen more sickening examples than I ever care to revisit, I would probably use other terms. It is often better to make appropriate changes consistently, keeping the things that are working and improving the things that aren't, rather than trying to completely revamp the program in one fell swoop . . . unless you have a large budget.

Is there a better description and categorization of your target customers than the ones I mentioned?

Paul

Paul Elliott
10-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Response to Ann's long post continued--


these wonderful customers are all over the place....one has a high class birdstore, and needed us for store fixtures,,the new mexico girl needed stock and displays for her store, a canadian needed stock to sell and filled a semi, she bought our cupboards mainly,,,a garden center needed lots of big cottage gardeny type displays...another is contemplating several stores in old downtowns,,,,.
in other words they are all over the place...i asked what they googled...and it was mostly antiques wholesale...and i know we come up very high in shabby and cottage too....they were all very happy with what they got and the prices...our name comes up on the first page of google in a lot of what i would guess are some of our key words...

Your description appears confusing, but it shouldn't be. These customers are already screaming at you what they want! Listen carefully and act on what they are saying.

There are several ways to organize the information you have. Look for common categories based on customer type. Sort, evaluate, re-mix, re-sort, re-think until you have no (or very few) loose ends--data that doesn't appear to fit.

Try to organize your "view" of the available information so that it all fits. Then, you will have a clearer understanding of the direction you should go.

Paul

KristineS
10-17-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think Van Gogh will permit any hair pulling here. ;)

Paul

Even if he would allow it, I wouldn't. I can never understand why some people feel compelled to tear others down. There's no room for that on this forum.

Paul Elliott
10-17-2008, 12:50 PM
Even if he would allow it, I wouldn't. I can never understand why some people feel compelled to tear others down. There's no room for that on this forum.

I agree. Nor did I wish to disenfranchise the Lady-Op, Kristine. I figured VG would choke us first. :eek:

vangogh
10-17-2008, 03:13 PM
Stop the hair pulling! Stop the madness! Ahhhh! :eek:

KristineS
10-17-2008, 03:49 PM
Stop the hair pulling! Stop the madness! Ahhhh! :eek:

That was very administrative of you Vangogh! ;)

greenoak
10-17-2008, 05:59 PM
paul, well it is confusing...my target people dont seem to hang out together in any way....
im pretty happy with what happens after they get to our site....
but hope to use your ideas to make it a better more focused visit....
and paul, if i can ever help you with anything i know about, retail sales, events, whatever just ask..or be your guinie pig in any way...just ask.....you are a great listener, and make this place pretty neat.....

i wish my target buyers got together on a place like this...


p.s.the guy with the harsh comment on my site wasnt being personal i didnt think..i didnt expect it to be deleted anyway.......but i do wish he knew how much business it brought me this year, so far!!!...but i would never ask you guys for a web review....
ann

Paul Elliott
10-17-2008, 07:21 PM
paul, well it is confusing...my target people dont seem to hang out together in any way....

I understand, though they DO have certain behaviors in common. I'm certainly not sure what those are, but you could easily find out in your discussions with them. Make these questions casual in the course of conversation rather than sounding like a cross examination.

Start by asking where they learned of your business. BY ALL MEANS tabulate these data. This applies to EVERY customer from EVERY source.

Next, ask them what other types of vendors they use. Ask them what other lines, brands, or types of materials and products they carry or are looking for.

Ask them the nature of their sales--retail shop, special projects, as wholesalers to other retailers, etc., etc.

A good resource of other things you should know about your customers is the "Mackay 66" from Harvey Mackay's book, "How To Swim With The Sharks." These are such things as birthdays, anniversaries, spouse's names, children's names and interests, etc.

These are for strengthening that affinity bond with you and your business.

Ask them if they have a website and/or an email address. (You want to know how to easily get in contact with them for announcements, etc.) You also want to collect the additional business intelligence you can learn about them and their businesses.

After EVERY sale, send a personal thank-you note. If you want to know how to automate this, PM me.


im pretty happy with what happens after they get to our site....

This is where a stats program such as Google Analytics (free) is vital.

Offer a lot of free information on your site-no sign-up required--AND offer special White Papers and special acquisition notices by having a double-opt-in squeeze page, so you can collect their contact information.

Also point out that you announce special discounts, coupons, early notification of sales before other, non-VIP customers, are informed.


but hope to use your ideas to make it a better more focused visit....
and paul, if i can ever help you with anything i know about, retail sales, events, whatever just ask..or be your guinie pig in any way...just ask.....you are a great listener, and make this place pretty neat.....

Thank you. I'll keep you in mind. However, I simply know something about what you need right now. Later, you may have other needs that others on the forum can certainly answer better than I.


i wish my target buyers got together on a place like this...

Consider establishing a forum for your customers with certain restricted sections for your larger and commercial buyers.


...but i would never ask you guys for a web review....
ann

Why not? We're happy to do this. I've done it many times, as I'm sure others here have also done. I'm happy to do a quick look and comment. Yes, I do charge for a more comprehensive analysis, but I'm reasonable.:D

Paul

greenoak
10-17-2008, 07:45 PM
i dont feel the need..and dont have the time or energy to do it....it seems to be working pretty well and not on the top of my problems right now...if i did i think you all would be great..im more looking for where to dangle it...
later, if i do try a different website, i realized from being on here a couple of years ago, that if i ever want a selling site, then i will have to do a deep overhaul and do what i imagine vangogh offers....till then im not fooling with it...
definitely when i get with a customer im like a sponge and get all the info i can....
ann

Paul Elliott
10-19-2008, 06:45 PM
so heres my question....how do i find more of these wonderful customers? they dont hang out together anywhere on the net that i can find, i only know a couple of store forums. and im on them...and they have produced lots of smaller customers for us.... most of them only need us once,,,for their set up...
how can i market to these potential customers ?

With different sets (types) of customers, you have different marketing thrusts. You should define them carefully and as completely as possible BEFORE you design your approaches. Otherwise, you mount up and ride off in all directions at once. It's part of effective planning--your homework. Work at least as much ON your business as IN your business.

If a group, say your wholesale customers who have their own retail businesses, doesn't spend that much time on the 'net you will need to appeal to that group by direct mail or by phone.

Where else do they go? What other types of supplies do they buy? That may give you some clues where to find others like them. Then, you can go to those vendors who serve that group and join the vendors to serve others like your current customers for mutual benefit.

Each group will possibly require a different approach.

Remember, you can lose money by failing to take advantage of what's available to you. It is more apparent and painful, of course, to lose it by spending it unwisely.


what would the keywords even be? i look at the keywords we get on statcounter and they are all over the place, tons of teeny specific things, like harvest table, primitive wholesale, shabby vanity, no trend...still my site has brought us this great business that we can fill easily...and at a right price for the buyers...

i sure dont want to change my website....but i could add some new part on it.or a whole new site, ..the site gets mentioned all the time regionally too, for the bulk of our retail customers who are maybe an hour or 2 away......the site is working so well i dont want to change it...

What and whether to concentrate on keywords would depend on how many people are really searching on them. IOW, how large is the market of the people you wish to reach AND do they spend much time on the 'net OR somewhere else? Again, we're talking about homework--careful data acquisition and analysis.

You will need to segment your customer base and focus on one type at a time optimizing your marketing for that group using ALL available methods, not simply the Internet . . . unless that group spends a good bit of time looking for resources on the 'net.

Put up online surveys with a coupon for answers such as what keywords they are searching on. More homework. ON as well as IN.

Since your site in its current form is a good profit center, why not re-invest some of your income from it in revising it. You can make smaller changes that will help you capture your current visitors without a complete revamping of your site.


so where i should be looking for this new business ? i dont know what else to do ..i dont know where to find these new customers....

ASK them where THEY found YOU!

It's an essential part of testing all your marketing. By all means, ask them if they know other people like them who might benefit from your contacting them. Ask, ask, ask! . . . But record the data AND take action on what you find.

Offer discounts on future business to them for referrals to you who buy from you.

Adapt the 7 Ways To Stimulate Word-Of-Mouth Advertising (below) to your business. It's free! Use the ideas well, and they will make you thousands of dollars. I would urge you not to use "at" them. They take a plan implemented in a consistent and persistent fashion.

Keep up your excellent work!

Paul

greenoak
10-19-2008, 08:51 PM
so much to think about..thanks...i do a lot of what you suggest ....
..i really like the idea of making a bit different approach to different groups...garden centers as opposed to gift shops..we do that some......and i like trying to imagine what else they buy...that would be stock for their venture , from hairdressing to birdcages to beer.......in otherwords all over the place...i dont see the help there...
but maybe the names of new businesses....would be a nice thing to find...
the website isnt a seperate thing that has its own profit...its just part of our marketing and it helps the store....the nice part is its about the cheapest part of our marketing....we are working on our openhouse right now....and just the stamps are about.900$....
....ann

Remipub
10-20-2008, 06:02 PM
Greetings! I'm new to this forum (referred by Steve B) and I see this thread has sort of turned away from the original topic of collateral material, but I wanted to chime in.



Apologies to any commercial printers here, reading this and cringing! I feel the same way when I see some DIY copy out there.

As a commercial printing service I don't cringe at all at that comment. You have to do what makes sense for your circumstances. Yes, offset printing is higher quality - both visually and durability, but it's not cost effective if you only want a few pieces. Of course there are exceptions, but I usually recommend a person purchase 6 months worth of collateral at a time. This way you don't saddle yourself with a bunch of extra if you decide to change something, but you also buy enough volume to get better pricing. If you're only going to use 50 pieces in those 6 months, then you are better off (cost wise) running them yourself.

I do agree though that design is vitally important. No matter how good the print quality - if a piece is poorly designed, it can do more harm than good. Unless you have a talent or training in design, it may be in your best interest to hire out that function - even if you'll print them in house.

KristineS
10-21-2008, 09:02 AM
Hey Remipub, welcome to the forum.

Your recommendation is a good one and something I wish more commercial printers would tell their potential clients. People tend to be really bad at judging how much they'll need of any one printed piece.

I also agree with you about getting any piece you print professionally designed. I'm a writer and have zero design skills, but I know that, so we have an in house designer who creates the look for all our stuff. It does make a huge difference.

Paul Elliott
10-21-2008, 11:54 AM
so much to think about..thanks...i do a lot of what you suggest ....

Great! Test, test, test! Find the things that work and focus on them. If something isn't working very well, that doesn't mean you eliminate it (though you might), but you may want to examine and rework it.


..i really like the idea of making a bit different approach to different groups...garden centers as opposed to gift shops..we do that some......and i like trying to imagine what else they buy...that would be stock for their venture , from hairdressing to birdcages to beer.......in otherwords all over the place...i dont see the help there...

Keep looking and thinking about what they have in common. You may have more profiles than I suggested, but it is better to make what you have fit into just a few categories rather than making a category for each person.


but maybe the names of new businesses....would be a nice thing to find...

For example, where and what do the shabby furniture vendors buy?

How about the retail purchasers of shabby furniture? If they are looking for SF, what else do they need or want at about the same time? . . . OR shortly after they have purchased their main stuff?


the website isnt a seperate thing that has its own profit...its just part of our marketing and it helps the store....the nice part is its about the cheapest part of our marketing....

Bingo!! What does THAT tell you?!

Perhaps you should ask your accountant to set up your site as a separate profit center so you CAN view it more effectively . . . AND administer it more effectively.


we are working on our openhouse right now....and just the stamps are about.900$....
....ann

How many pieces are you mailing?
What size and weight?
Postcard or letter?
Is your piece going Standard, Presorted First Class, some other?

Paul

greenoak
10-22-2008, 09:32 AM
firstclass postcard, we print, not sorted, too many zip codes,and we send just under 4000 ....the openhouse costs about 2500$ to put on, less than 10% of the money coming in from it...... and a big part is the mailing ...of course we have gone over so many of the issues about it....and have decided to keep doing it..the goal is huge and has been met in past years...who knows this year!!!
after this is over im reallly going to take some time to make some good additions to the website, especially the wholesale parts....especially from your focus ideas paul...im really trying to think about where those dang customers hang out...and have come up withsome places...and also ways to keep in better contact with them afterwards....
.and maybe work on building another site....definitely i dont want to change our site very much...its too valuable as it is, and has great google somehow... and since it doesnt quite make sense i dont want to mess up a real good thing...
...so im really enjoying and studying all the website posts and general info on this forum.... so much help here!!
ann

Paul Elliott
10-22-2008, 11:13 AM
firstclass postcard, we print, not sorted, too many zip codes,and we send just under 4000 ....

If they aren't already printed, turn them into a very attractive coupon as well as your announcement. Don't forget to use the left side of the address side for sales copy.


the openhouse costs about 2500$ to put on, less than 10% of the money coming in from it...... and a big part is the mailing ...of course we have gone over so many of the issues about it....and have decided to keep doing it..the goal is huge and has been met in past years...who knows this year!!!

Great! Good numbers. How about having a Spring Open House, too?

Whatever you do, collect the contact information of everyone who walks in your doors--not just the ones that purchase. Make the exchange "worth it" by pointing out that this is your way of telling them about unannounced sales and specials that you only tell your special people on this list about. :D

Be sure to get their email addresses and phone numbers, also.

You MUST begin working your list. Remember that is one of your most valuable business assets--perhaps your most valuable.

Now, think about it. Look at how well your Open House works with a mailing of 4,000. Why not use that same list to offer more things to them more often? Start the real and VERY lucrative process of building your relationship with your list members right away.

Continue to think about it. If you were to get each of your existing customers to spend twice as much with you in 2009 as in 2008, what would your gross receipts be? Get the picture?


after this is over im reallly going to take some time to make some good additions to the website, especially the wholesale parts....especially from your focus ideas paul...im really trying to think about where those dang customers hang out...and have come up withsome places...and also ways to keep in better contact with them afterwards....

Good plan. Better contact? Work your list! Start by sending them a Thanksgiving card. If you want more information on how to automate this, PM me.

It's MUCH better to work your current list--believe me--before spending time and money generating new contacts.


.and maybe work on building another site....definitely i dont want to change our site very much...its too valuable as it is, and has great google somehow... and since it doesnt quite make sense i dont want to mess up a real good thing...

That's a good plan, but start working your list right away.

What are the dates of your Open House?

Paul

greenoak
10-22-2008, 05:34 PM
nov 7 8 9....thats what im doing now, putting out christmas..
..we use our list 4 times a year...... the best event is in august....
my theory is not to rock that boat either....and just use my list 4 times a year..some have been on it 15 yrs or maybe more......
the email list we do monthly.....
thanks , im going to be workin the list.and working harder to g et more names.. i never do coupons tho, or that kind of thing...our list is actual buyers and about 4000...so its kind of a good list.....ann

Paul Elliott
10-22-2008, 06:29 PM
nov 7 8 9....thats what im doing now, putting out christmas..

Good timing. That will give you time to key in your attendees' data and send out a Christmas mailing.


..we use our list 4 times a year...... the best event is in august....

Good. Consider a special showing for dealers/bulk buyers.


my theory is not to rock that boat either....and just use my list 4 times a year..some have been on it 15 yrs or maybe more......

NEVER fear you will wear them out! They will read--yea, eagerly anticipate--every mailing coming from you . . . if you give them reason to love them. Of course, if you don't give them reason to read them, they won't!

Learn to think like your customer! Learn to give them things in your mailings that they will LOVE to get.

I once did a mailing that got a 125% response! ??? Yes, the recipients faxed the mailed piece to their friends and families! Why? Because it was a great offer, AND I urged them to do so!

Learn to think like a marketer!


the email list we do monthly.....

How about every 3 weeks? When you prove to yourself that that's working, do it every 2 weeks. Again, if you tell them things they want to hear, they will not unsubscribe. It's all up to YOU to learn how your customers think and appeal to them.


thanks , im going to be workin the list.and working harder to g et more names..

Remember, they will willingly sign-up if you make the quid-pro-quo properly appealing.


i never do coupons tho, or that kind of thing...our list is actual buyers and about 4000...so its kind of a good list.....ann

Consider coupons in some form. They work VERY well . . . IF they are for things and in amounts that compel action by your customers!

If you don't use coupons in some form, you are leaving some low hanging fruit on the trees. Why leave money on the table that's so easy to collect? The effort to collect it is about the same as you are already expending.

Paul