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Harold Mansfield
03-16-2010, 10:58 PM
When you work alone and don't have any one in the business to bounce ideas off of...you pretty much go on gut and take chances.

I have had this in the back of my mind for a long time and since I started diving into the community features of WPMU, it all started coming together.

Quick Back story: 8 years ago, I wanted to build a community around the Hospitality Industry here in Vegas..sort of an underground newspaper. Of course we all know that by now, I would have failed since no one reads newspapers anymore, but I tried desperately to get investors and luckily had to give it up.

Switching gears: When I was around 10-12 years old, I got hold of an old Redd Foxx Album. The album cover (to me) was so hilarious that 30 years later, I still giggle when I think of it because if you remember or liked Redd Fox, he just put it out there, but the cover and album title was cleaver enough to get by the censors and get it put on the shelves.

OK, let's get to it...When I started working on Clusterfox.org, this idea was nagging me the whole time...gnawing at me so much that I had to stop and lean into it.

Basically I need to know if I am completely out of my mind.

It's a blog community, with all the features that MU/Buddypress have to offer..groups, forum, blah, blah ,blah. It's not complete yet, I have tested any of the admin functions yet, but I wanted to get some opinions mostly on the look so far, but ultimately on the status of my sanity.

The target demographic will be 20-35.

Some of you will right away be offended at the possible inference and tell me that I am indeed twisted if I think people will like that (so let me apologize in advance), and a few of you won't. It's not meant to be outwardly offensive, just funny.

Remember, all blogs will be on a subdomain with this domain as the root.

The Link (http://fugget.com)

and here's a rough draft of the press (http://fugget.com/2010/03/13/hello-world/)
and the Twitter Profile (http://twitter.com/OfficialFugget)..haven't started on the Facebook page yet, just grabbed the page name is all.

Blessed
03-17-2010, 12:47 AM
OK... I wouldn't start a blog on your site because... as you stated "...I also wanted a name that would attract a certain type of attitude. I may be wrong, but I would think that the average Conservative Mom who wants to blog about the joys of raising toddlers, would probably steer clear…but I have been wrong before."

However - I do think it's a great idea and will be a good fit - with the demographic you're targeting.

Good luck!

Harold Mansfield
03-17-2010, 01:32 AM
OK... I wouldn't start a blog on your site because... as you stated "...I also wanted a name that would attract a certain type of attitude. I may be wrong, but I would think that the average Conservative Mom who wants to blog about the joys of raising toddlers, would probably steer clear…but I have been wrong before."

However - I do think it's a great idea and will be a good fit - with the demographic you're targeting.

Good luck!

LOL! No Jen, I wouldn't expect you to. but thank you.

vangogh
03-17-2010, 01:38 AM
I don't think you're crazy at all. Jenn's right that the average mommy blogger may not want a blog with you, but I can see people being more than happy to join in once you've started building the first few blogs.

One thing I'd say is it's not obvious on the site who the site is for. Is it for anyone or is there a particularly community you want to attract? Maybe that will come as the content grows, but right now I don't know that I would know what the site and the community is about if I landed on the site.

Technically it's taking shape. It's looking pretty good, especially since I know some of the headaches you've been dealing with setting it up.

Harold Mansfield
03-17-2010, 01:51 AM
I think when it's done, I'm just going to throw it out there and see who is curious enough and let people tell me who it's for by signing up.

I'm really banking on not just the features, but the fact that people will get a kick out of saying it, and will say it often.
I'm probably going to hit college age students first and see it they grab a hold of it.

Harold Mansfield
03-17-2010, 01:59 AM
By the way, here's a link to that old Redd Fox album cover that I never forgot in case anyone didn't know it or was curious:
http://i43.tower.com/images/mm106399574/very-best-redd-foxx-fugg-it-cd-cover-art.jpg

painperdu
03-17-2010, 07:56 AM
I like your domains. They're very brandable.

The thing is, I think there are too many places available to host free blogs. Your concept to cater to the service industry may be better fitted for one blog with multiple bloggers contributing to different topics. Whereas if you're offering multiple blogs then your blog's focus isn't about the service industry but rather, it's about hosting blogs.

Spider
03-17-2010, 01:36 PM
What do you think the appeal will be to start a blog in a blog community such as this?

I don't think it matters what demographic you want to attract, or - as you say - what demographic eventually materilizes if you just "put it out there." My immediate thought was, "Who would want to start a blog, free or otherwise, that hardly anyone is likely to read?"

I don't know wy I felt hardly anyone would want to read these blogs. It just seemed to me the attraction (if any) was to write a blog, not read them.

I don't see this as any different from Hub Pages, Squidoo and a host of other sites, and they do appeal to readers as well as writers - or so it seems to me.

Thus, my question: What do you think the appeal will be to start a blog in a blog community such as this?

billbenson
03-17-2010, 02:41 PM
I'm completely offended, incensed, ...

Howerer, partially in answer to spiders answer above, I think if you promote it right, maybe get some "cool" college kids to start blogs there it could become somewhat viral. Spring break is coming. Might be a start to get some spring break blogs going. Start your own under a different name? Take a little research to figure out what cool college kids are doing these days...

I like the idea eborg. Still offended though :)

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2010, 09:22 AM
I like your domains. They're very brandable.

The thing is, I think there are too many places available to host free blogs. Your concept to cater to the service industry may be better fitted for one blog with multiple bloggers contributing to different topics. Whereas if you're offering multiple blogs then your blog's focus isn't about the service industry but rather, it's about hosting blogs.

Well, I haven't quite though all of that through yet. I haven't really set a direction and I know I need to to set the pace.Right now I'm still building and trying to fine tune things to narrow in on something specific.


What do you think the appeal will be to start a blog in a blog community such as this?

I don't think it matters what demographic you want to attract, or - as you say - what demographic eventually materilizes if you just "put it out there." My immediate thought was, "Who would want to start a blog, free or otherwise, that hardly anyone is likely to read?"

I don't know wy I felt hardly anyone would want to read these blogs. It just seemed to me the attraction (if any) was to write a blog, not read them.

I don't see this as any different from Hub Pages, Squidoo and a host of other sites, and they do appeal to readers as well as writers - or so it seems to me.

Thus, my question: What do you think the appeal will be to start a blog in a blog community such as this?

Out of all of the publishing platforms that you named, those are exactly what I don't want it to be. To replicate those would be a complete waste of time and to me, they don't hold any value to regular web users.
They have become webmaster article dumps rather than what they were originally intended.

My hope is to attract people and personalities that actually have stories to tell and experiences to share. I definitely do not want to attract webmasters looking for a place to dump spam to get a few back links

I agree with you, the appeal to read blogs has been tarnished, basically because of what I just mentioned. I only know 2 places that police the quality of the content on their networks and still some spam slips through.

People do read blogs.
I am hoping to attract real people, not webmasters.

There are a few things that I plan to implement that will help with quality control:
*Admin approval for each new blog
*One blog per person
*Ability to add outside blogs to the network
*Strict spam policy
Just for starters. Like I said, I'm still thinking things through. Over the next couple of days I hope to narrow in on a direction.
Compared to the other blog platforms that you mentioned, I think quality control and the additional features can help separate and define this site as not just another place to dump articles but an actual community.


I'm completely offended, incensed, ...

Howerer, partially in answer to spiders answer above, I think if you promote it right, maybe get some "cool" college kids to start blogs there it could become somewhat viral. Spring break is coming. Might be a start to get some spring break blogs going. Start your own under a different name? Take a little research to figure out what cool college kids are doing these days...

I like the idea eborg. Still offended though :)

That was the direction that I am hoping to go in, I just have to figure out how to do it.
You also have to remember that I am also a service provider, if I can pull this off even on some small level, it will be a nice way to show others what I can do for them.
Right now, the possible marketing applications to build this type of community for a brand are completely untouched and unlimited and it is something that brands have trying to do for years.

Spider
03-18-2010, 11:36 AM
Continuing my tease...er! I mean playing Devil's advocate---


...My hope is to attract people and personalities that actually have stories to tell and experiences to share. ...Now, personalities strike a chord. Get a few names blogging, who can talk about being on stage, mingling with even bigger names, like "interesting" people - and I think you would have a winner. What newbie, wannabe and fan would not want to blog alongside some real "personailites."

What can you do to get some names blogging on your site?



...Compared to the other blog platforms that you mentioned, I think quality control and the additional features can help separate and define this site as not just another place to dump articles but an actual community...However, it seems to me that "community" dictates dialog. How can you have a community if the people don't talk to each other? Blogging is merely talking *at* people, not talking *with* people. You sound as if you should be building a discussion forum, rather than a blogging site.

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2010, 12:04 PM
Continuing my tease...er! I mean playing Devil's advocate---

Now, personalities strike a chord. Get a few names blogging, who can talk about being on stage, mingling with even bigger names, like "interesting" people - and I think you would have a winner. What newbie, wannabe and fan would not want to blog alongside some real "personailites."

What can you do to get some names blogging on your site?

Don't know. Been thinking about that. Comedians came to mind right away.


However, it seems to me that "community" dictates dialog. How can you have a community if the people don't talk to each other? Blogging is merely talking *at* people, not talking *with* people. You sound as if you should be building a discussion forum, rather than a blogging site.

It has an integrated forum. You can also build and join groups and communicate with your group in various ways, PM, email and forum.

You can also follow individual Facebook and Twitter activity right along with any users blog updates.

Also, although I am only allowing 1 blog per users, you can add additional RSS feeds for other blogs that you may have to be updated within the activity stream or individual groups that you belong to or admin.

If you already have a blog and don't want to start another one on the network, you can still join, then join a group and list your blog with the group and it's updates will be automatically added in the activity stream

Also, new blog posts across the network go to the front page of the main site.

There are more functions on the way or that I haven't installed yet like User Messaging, Chat, and extended profiles so that users can add all of their relevant info, and links.

Spider
03-18-2010, 02:03 PM
Well, I dunno! It still doesn't sound like a conversation of the type we have at SBF. But maybe people don't want that. Talking *at* each other may be the new conversation.

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2010, 02:27 PM
Well, I dunno! It still doesn't sound like a conversation of the type we have at SBF. But maybe people don't want that. Talking *at* each other may be the new conversation.
I'm not actually wanting to create a forum, it's just one of the communication features.
I still haven't worked out a specific direction for it yet. To be honest I have no idea what I'm going to do with it, I just wanted to secure the real estate and have it ready for when I do figure it out.

Blessed
03-18-2010, 03:06 PM
...Blogging is merely talking *at* people, not talking *with* people. You sound as if you should be building a discussion forum, rather than a blogging site.

I'm going to slightly disagree with you here Frederick - I'll be the first to admit that primarily my blog is me "talking *at* people" but, my blog is pretty small, it isn't something I put a lot of effort into, and it's basically what eborg isn't targeting - a mom talking about raising her kids and doing family stuff.

However... some of the other blogs I read really do have quite a bit of conversation going. Some bloggers are good at developing that conversation - and it really works - they interact with their readers and etc... they start out with a thesis, an essay, a whatever you want to call it and then the discussion continues through the comments - I could see a community built in this platform becoming that way - but it's up to the individual bloggers to make it happen. - That's the hard part, finding bloggers who will make it happen and attracting them to the platform.

vangogh
03-18-2010, 04:18 PM
I would disagree with the characterization of a blog as talking "at" someone too. It can be, but don't forget about the comments. I've seen plenty of blogs that are great at generating real conversations. Their blog posts are then more a way of choosing a topic for the discussion that follows.

With Harold's site he will have an integrated forum so the same kind of conversations we have here could be had on his site and BuddyPress adds a few other social features such as more fleshed out profiles and create more Facebook and Twitter like conversations.

As for why someone might want a blog on the site you have to keep in mind that not everything we do and say for our business needs to originate on our own sites. Our sites should be the main base for our online operations, but it make a lot of sense to also build a presence in other places. Assuming Harold can build the site up it stands to reason the site as a whole will have more authority in the eyes of search engines and so gain more traffic across the site including subdirectories and subdomains. The post you write on his site may end up being seen more than if that post were on your site.

Also with the community that can develop due to having many blogs on similar topics and the forum and social features it does give people a chance to brand themselves and interact with a group of people all interested in the same topic or group of related topics.

Spider
03-18-2010, 06:05 PM
Okay. I stand corrected.

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2010, 06:51 PM
After thinking about this for a couple of days, I'm thinking the most practical way to promote this given it's name is to try and attract comedians, comedy writers. amateur stand ups illustrators and artists, and just people who think they are funny in general and write witty observations and humorous anecdotes and try to build a network of comedy blogs.


Scary since I know nothing about the industry, but I think that crowd would be the most likely to embrace it and actually get a kick out of being associated with it.

Are there that many people out there that think they are funny or are trying to break into the business?

I was thinking I could make up a few custom themes, offer users a self rating system to label their blogs PG, R, and X-rated for the raunchier stuff, and extend profiles to include contact and booking information for the professionals looking for work.

What do you guys think ?

Patrysha
03-18-2010, 07:29 PM
I think it's a wonderful idea and am interested in seeing where you take it...

Harold Mansfield
03-18-2010, 07:34 PM
Anyone know anything about the Entertainment Industry, :) ?
I told you I didn't exactly think it through.

Blessed
03-18-2010, 11:08 PM
I don't know anything about the entertainment industry... but I do have a friend who is about 7 or 8 years younger than me, he's an illustrator - does comics, graphic novels, that kind of stuff and if he were going to blog - I could see him setting up on this type of site so I think you're headed the right direction. Have fun doing your homework now!

Spider
03-19-2010, 11:25 AM
Contact Toastmasters. Toastmasters are all over the world and, of course, in Las Vegas. In fact, one of the best known Toastmasters lives in Las Vegas - Darren LaCroix. Darren was a stand up comedian before he won the World Championship of Public Speaking and now he has educational material aimed at Toastmasters. A great deal of TM training is about adding humor to otherwise mundane and serious speeches.

Darren, and some others, have their websites, e-mail marketing, etc done by Cynthia Lay, aka The Butterfly Herder (http://www.thebutterflyherder.com/) who, I believe also uses Wordpress.

If Cynthia doesn't have anything similar to what you are producing, Harold, I could see a great joint venture for you, with her opemning up the whole world of Toastmasters.

If you like this suggestion, this is another URL you should follow up - FreeToastHost.org (http://freetoasthost.com) ... Many TM clubs use this service.

Harold Mansfield
03-19-2010, 12:44 PM
Contact Toastmasters. Toastmasters are all over the world and, of course, in Las Vegas. In fact, one of the best known Toastmasters lives in Las Vegas - Darren LaCroix. Darren was a stand up comedian before he won the World Championship of Public Speaking and now he has educational material aimed at Toastmasters. A great deal of TM training is about adding humor to otherwise mundane and serious speeches.

Darren, and some others, have their websites, e-mail marketing, etc done by Cynthia Lay, aka The Butterfly Herder (http://www.thebutterflyherder.com/) who, I believe also uses Wordpress.

If Cynthia doesn't have anything similar to what you are producing, Harold, I could see a great joint venture for you, with her opemning up the whole world of Toastmasters.

If you like this suggestion, this is another URL you should follow up - FreeToastHost.org (http://freetoasthost.com) ... Many TM clubs use this service.
Thanks Frederick,I'll definitely check it out. I have to admit, I don't know anything about the Toastmasters but it sounds worth a look.

Spider
03-19-2010, 05:12 PM
Look at Toastmasters International - Home (http://toastmasters.org) for more information. Or for specific questons, post here and I'll try to answer them.

Harold Mansfield
03-28-2010, 01:12 AM
Update:
It is turning out to be a lot more challenging than I had expected, mostly because the software doesn't do what I want it to do yet, and there is a real lack of available resources and reliable programmers.

Some of the most basic functions and plug ins that are supposed to work with this platform, don't. And it;s just easier not to use them than to fix someone else's mistake.

I am having to basically recreate what I had and hack it into something usable that will fit my needs.

I should have something preliminary put together for another look in a couple of days and get some additional input.

One thing that I am finding is that spammers, novice webmasters and internet marketers are relentless with the spam articles. They are like cockroaches. Any possible sliver of light to throw up a link and they will take it, even though they know I will delete it within the day.

If they don't get some kind of Admin approval for new blog registrations fixed on this, then the whole platform is a waste of time. It's really frustrating, the simplest things stop the whole thing in the tracks.

billbenson
03-28-2010, 02:55 AM
Out of curiousity, whats not working that you need working? What do you need to better control the spam?

vangogh
03-28-2010, 02:40 PM
Ae you using Akismet or one of the other spam fighting plugins? I would think they'd help alleviate some of the spam registration issues. If not what about using re-captcha or one of those answer a simple question plugin. A combination of a couple might also help reduce spam.

The software should also be upgraded often enough as will plugins for it.

Harold Mansfield
03-28-2010, 07:17 PM
Spammers are a huge issue. They are literally like cockroaches. Even when it's obvious that it will be caught and deleted, they just can't help themselves.
The one thing I have noticed is people spamming for others. It seems to be "SEO Companies" dropping links for clients.

I always wondered about the services that claim to grow your inbound links, now I know exactly what some of these "companies" are doing. They are literally spamming the internet with BS articles to gain a back link. I only noticed this because I have/had the 2 sites up and functional and I see the same spammers dropping the same links. I see the same horrible English across the board. I know where they are coming from..I think we all know where they are coming from.

I actually had to put the other site in maintenance mode for now, and disable the blog registration on the other because of it.

The anti-spam plug ins don't work. I mean what can you do...ban all Yahoo and Gmail email addresses?
Spam registrations still happen and admin approval is still a pipe dream. It's not a natural function of the software and the one company that had a plug in for it, stopped supporting it and it no longer works with the latest upgrade. It seems that they have devoted time to developing Single user WP themes (which are a dime a dozen), instead of what could have been the most coveted plug in of the whole platform...They actually could have charged money for it since SO many people want it and are searching for something that actually works..idiots.

Admin approval is the only way to run a niche community efficiently.

But the biggest issue is that there aren't that many plug ins, or themes available and so much of what is available has no support or is not compatible with the update changes or with the other plug ins.
The developers that were working with BB Press seemed to have just stopped and all of the people that jumped on the Buddypress bandwagon in the beginning, when it really had a lot of bugs, haven't had any activity on their websites and forums for months.

Right now, everything is hit and miss and it is very frustrating. There are more questions than answers on the forums and even the Buddypress forum itself is not functioning properly.

It's almost as if on the eve of the greatest thing to happen in web publishing people are scrambling for functionality and answers and there are none.

It's just like Wordpress was back before 2.0. Chaos.

There is a huge market to be filled. Most of the plug in developers, and theme designers have completely dropped the ball. I actually can't name one that I would call professional or dependable. Not one that I would trust to spend money with.
I am starting to realize that the only way to get this running the way I want is to make my own stuff, or hire someone to make it for me.

I really hope that all of this inactivity means that everyone is devoting all of their resources to the launch of WP 3.0 because right now it's like a ghost town in the WP community.

vangogh
03-29-2010, 11:23 AM
The anti-spam plug ins don't work.

Have you tried them and they don't work or do you not think they work so you didn't try one. All I can tell you is they work very well for me on WordPress. If yyy@gmail.com is found to be a spammer on my blog then the plugin knows that address is also a spammer on your blog. The plugins maintain a database of spammers by email, IP, etc.

You can also try adding recaptcha or one of those question things. They won't stop all spammers, but they will stop some.

If someone manually comes to your site and registers or comments, then you probably won't catch them in automated ways, but if you're getting flooded with spam it's not being created manually.

Harold Mansfield
03-29-2010, 11:51 AM
Have you tried them and they don't work or do you not think they work so you didn't try one. All I can tell you is they work very well for me on WordPress. If yyy@gmail.com is found to be a spammer on my blog then the plugin knows that address is also a spammer on your blog. The plugins maintain a database of spammers by email, IP, etc.

You can also try adding recaptcha or one of those question things. They won't stop all spammers, but they will stop some.

If someone manually comes to your site and registers or comments, then you probably won't catch them in automated ways, but if you're getting flooded with spam it's not being created manually.
Maybe I should rephrase the issue. The spam plug ins work against known spam threats, and they work fine to stop spam comments, especially on Single user Wordpress,

There's also MU specific anti-spam plug ins like WP-Hashcash.

But, what can they do against a user that just decides that this is just another free blog network and decides to drop a "make money online" article on his newly registered blog?

In my view, the only way to enforce it so that everyone follows the guidelines is admin approval of each new blog registration.
I'm pretty sure I can get that part under control by making things clearer on the registration page, and I'm sure I can find some kind of way to stop open registration.

vangogh
03-29-2010, 08:01 PM
That's different. What you do is not allow anyone to register or not allow new registrations to automatically have a blog. Set it so you have to approve them first or maybe let the blog be created, but not let any posts be published until you ok it.

Set the new user not to be an admin or author. Set their role so they can post a draft, but not a published post.

Harold Mansfield
03-30-2010, 02:25 PM
Looks like Andy has finally started calling out plug in developers that don't update their projects:
BuddyPress.org → Forums → Plugin Hall of Shame! :) Plugin Devs Please Read (http://buddypress.org/forums/topic/plugin-hall-of-shame-plugin-devs-please-read).

Unfortunately the only 3 plug ins I care about are on the list. No support. No Updates.

Spider
03-30-2010, 06:04 PM
I don't really know what you guys are talking about, but do I smell a joint venture in the making? Harold seems to be pretty clear about what he needs and can't find. James is looking for a WP development job. Steve and Steve and Steve (!) all seem to be au fait with what is involved and possibly capable of writing the code.

Paul, I'm sure, would love to help with the marketing, along with Patrysha, Jenn and others. Kristine could write and blog about it.

We have attorneys and accountants and tax experts, and lord knows what else in this forum. And I'll coach you all to a level of excellence that would blow everyone out of the water!

?

Harold Mansfield
03-30-2010, 07:44 PM
I don't really know what you guys are talking about, but do I smell a joint venture in the making? Harold seems to be pretty clear about what he needs and can't find. James is looking for a WP development job. Steve and Steve and Steve (!) all seem to be au fait with what is involved and possibly capable of writing the code.

Paul, I'm sure, would love to help with the marketing, along with Patrysha, Jenn and others. Kristine could write and blog about it.

We have attorneys and accountants and tax experts, and lord knows what else in this forum. And I'll coach you all to a level of excellence that would blow everyone out of the water!

?

I have been thinking in that direction for a few weeks now. I'm frustrated beyond belief that what I need is either not available or doesn't work anymore...and I'm looking at others searching for the same things and not getting answers.

My long term solution is to learn how to do it myself. Of course it would take me some time to learn PHP to the point that I could write my own plug ins, but it looks like that's what has to happen.

vangogh
03-30-2010, 07:44 PM
I guess we're all forming a new business venture :)

Actually I think many plugins evolved because someone wanted to be able to do something and couldn't and so developed a plugin. Since they figured other people wanted to do the same they released the plugin.

Harold Mansfield
03-30-2010, 08:20 PM
The only thing is, most plug ins are released under CC and ask for donations which doesn't sound very profitable.

There are 3 that don't work right now, that I would pay for if they did.

I also would like to know how the new release will affect anything that is done now.

billbenson
03-30-2010, 09:28 PM
Creating a plugin that you make available to others or sell would be a lot of work and ongoing work. Hacking something together for yourself takes a lot less skill and time. One of the beauties of php is you don't need to an expert at programming to get some things to work for yourself.

vangogh
03-31-2010, 12:21 AM
People are still trying to sort out the business model around plugins. Some don't go with the GPL, but I think plugins should be GPL in the spirit of WordPress and given the law that since WP is GPL, plugins have to be GPL by default.

That doesn't mean you can't charge money for your work though. Some people will find a way to get it for free, but many will want to pay to support the developer, because they don't know they can find it free, because the developer is more likely to offer better support.

Some people will charge for the support instead of or in addition to the plugin and others will place everything behind a membership site. There are definitely business models around plugins the same way there are business models around themes.

Harold Mansfield
03-31-2010, 11:01 AM
I don't think I'd ever want to be a part of any of that, but I would like to have someone look at the ones that I want to work and make the adjustments.
I'm almost certain that the fix is one line of code on each one, but so far I haven't been able to track it down.

vangogh
03-31-2010, 06:05 PM
You might have to hire someone then to take a look. Unless you're talking about a commercial plugin in which case there should be some support for it.

The reason many free plugins don't work quite as well as you'd like and don't get updated all that often is because the developer makes no money. There's no incentive for them to work on it other than their own joy. A lot of support requests dampens that joy in a hurry.

Harold Mansfield
03-31-2010, 07:15 PM
I always make it a habit to support a nice plug in, particularly one where the developer answers support questions. I can't see donating when the developer has a support forum set up, but hasn't answered a question in 4 months..he is obviously gone or doesn't care anymore.

I see this more with Buddypress plug ins. Plug ins as young as 3 months old, don't work anymore, with the developers nowhere to be found. When I look at some of the support threads for them...I don't see a lot of questions...maybe 5-20 but they only answered the first 2-3...the rest have gone unanswered since the first week.

I don't understand. Why do it just to chuck it in a matter of days and if you are going to say "screw it, I don't have time" at least remove it from the market and take down your donation button.

I have seen many plug in developers post up messages that they are no longer supporting a plug in, but the Buddypress developers seem to be especially apathetic..maybe it's because there aren't that many of them compared to Single user wordpress and when they ignore their plug in and their own support forum, it stands out more.

Paid plug ins are no better. I just dropped $40 on one only to have my emails go unanswered for over a week now.

vangogh
03-31-2010, 07:27 PM
Unfortunately not enough people support plugin developers like yourself.

With some of the BuddyPress plugins it may be that BuddyPress itself has been changing quickly and some people might even be waiting for WordPress 3.0 to come out before working too much on something they may need to change soon.

Also consider that the free plugins are often done for marketing and links so once up the developer's interest is over.

I'm not saying either of the above is good, but it's how it is. The good developers who support their plugins do stand out given how most people are.

I almost forgot the most important point in all of this. You have to remember we're talking about open source software. A big part of the idea is that someone may develop the start of something like a plugin and then you come along and fix a few things and add a few more. Then you either share your new code with the original developer or offer your version of the plugin.

If you pay for a plugin there's no excuse for there being no support. If it's free part of the expectation is that others beside the original developer will work on it and contribute to the project.

Harold Mansfield
03-31-2010, 07:35 PM
With some of the BuddyPress plugins it may be that BuddyPress itself has been changing quickly and some people might even be waiting for WordPress 3.0 to come out before working too much on something they may need to change soon.

I thought about that too. I think the most frustrating thing is plug in developers just completely ignoring their support forums on a 3 month old or younger plug in.



Also consider that the free plugins are often done for marketing and links so once up the developer's interest is over.
.

But, if the plug in goes unsupported, doesn't work, or breaks multiple user's or company's blog, then the developer does more harm than good to himself. I know I would never trust any more of his products or services.

Besides, the minute a plug in stops working..it's deleted so the link is gone.

Then if it's so horrible creating plug ins, why not just sell them ? There are quite a few that I would have paid for (and have), but not now...now that I know that a certain developer is a flake and support is a crap shoot. I wouldn't trust him with anything.

Harold Mansfield
03-31-2010, 09:41 PM
Well, I have been forced into the arms of a membership site. I couldn't take it anymore and I ponied up the cash and joined WPMU DEV today.

I can honestly say, everything that I have been complaining about in this thread, I found answers to there in the first 5 minutes..installed them and they actually seem to work!
No hassle. Support. Tons of Tools.

I still think it's expensive, but seems like it's kind of worth not having to go through the frustration of searching for open source solutions, help and support.

Maybe that has been the great conspiracy all along with the developers...to force us to go to a paid site for the much needed tools and support.

vangogh
04-01-2010, 11:08 AM
First I'm glad you were able to find some help.

Conspiracy? Hmm? I think it's more that plugin developers have been giving away things for years with little in return except for support requests. Ask yourself if you developed a plugin and no one ever donated money, but they all fill your inbox with requests, how long are you going to continue responding?

Are some doing more harm to themselves than good? Maybe. In some circles. Depends on a lot of factors. You might see an unfinished and unsupported plugin and the next person might see the solution to something they've be trying to figure out and take what's there and develop it further.

Harold Mansfield
04-01-2010, 11:44 AM
It's not that I don't understand. I do. What I don't understand is why get into it in the first place ?
It's not like it's a big surprise that there are a lot of cheap webmasters out there that will scavenge and pillage the web for all the free stuff that they can get with no regard for how it got there.

That's old news but it has gotten worse lately with the huge influx of webmasters from places that before didn't have a high population on web users and 'entrepreneurs" that are trying to catch up to where we were in the 90's.

vangogh
04-01-2010, 08:17 PM
I think some people get into it thinking they will get more donations or have more time to work on the plugin. Sometimes I think it's just people contributing something for someone else who might find it helpful. There's no reason why a plugin has to be maintained solely by one person for its lifetime.

Another thing to consider is that maybe after releasing the plugin there wasn't as much interest in it as the developer hoped or someone else put out a similar and better plugin that does the same.

Blessed
04-01-2010, 11:51 PM
OK guys you are soooo far over my head it isn't even funny - but I still stop in here every day to see what you are talking about :D

So... how is the site coming, are you going to push it and try to turn it into a "happening place" on the internet?

Harold Mansfield
04-02-2010, 12:06 AM
Yeah, I'm definitely going forward with it. I have to...I want to apply this platform to 2 other sites, so this is kind of my practice site, but I love the domain...so I can't let it go to waste.

I have access to much better tools now and part of the problem also was me trying to make the first design work and it got so that I was having to hack waaayy to many files so much that it was becoming evident that, that design wasn't going to work.

Shouldn't be too long now.

vangogh
04-02-2010, 11:19 AM
OK guys you are soooo far over my head it isn't even funny

Jenn, didn't you know that was out goal. Harold and I talked secretly and said let's turn this conversation into one that will go over Jenn's head :)

Ok maybe not.

Harold Mansfield
04-02-2010, 12:44 PM
I know that sometimes we can go off on our own conversation when it comes to Wordpress....it's like owning a boat, most times it's the greatest thing to happen since the first wheel rolled down from the mountain top (that's how it happened, isn't it?), but sometimes it can be a total pain.

I'm more than happy (we all are) to answer questions about what I know so far and I'm sure it will be a benefit to everyone. Too many times someone has posted a question or added input as a so called 'novice' that has turned me on to other possibilities and taught me something new.

I just think that things that you can do now with WP are just incredible and I may get frustrated at times, but it always comes out roses in the end.
This has been my most difficult challenge so far, mainly because I didn't have the right tools for the job.

Right now, things are going very smoothly. Finally got switched over to VPS so that's out of the way...I'm really exited now at what I think I can do with some other sites of mine that need an overhaul.

The DEV community is the best money I have spent on anything business related. It is so worth it for anyone working with MU/Buddypress.

Blessed
04-02-2010, 05:31 PM
Jenn, didn't you know that was out goal. Harold and I talked secretly and said let's turn this conversation into one that will go over Jenn's head :)

I knew there was a conspiracy around here somewhere :D

Ah well, one of these days I'll get up to speed and it at least won't be quite so far over my head!

Glad it's going well now Harold! And, I don't know if I could handle a boat conversation... we have 3 of them, one for fishing, one for waterfowl hunting with a group and one for waterfowl hunting by yourself. Oh, and I don't get to park in the garage either.

vangogh
04-02-2010, 06:01 PM
I knew there was a conspiracy around here somewhere

Shhh. Don't tell anyone. And even if you do tell we're going to deny, deny, deny.

Harold Mansfield
04-03-2010, 02:41 AM
I don't know if I could handle a boat conversation... we have 3 of them, one for fishing, one for waterfowl hunting with a group and one for waterfowl hunting by yourself. Oh, and I don't get to park in the garage either.

I have to continue off subject here...Why can't you use one boat to do all 3 things. They sound very similar to each other.
When I started reading the sentence, I thought you were going to say something like; "..one for Racing, one's a sail boat, and a fishing boat."

..(here comes my wildlife, citified ignorance) Can't you shoot waterfowl from the same boat that you fish from ? I mean does the waterfowl boat have a rifle mount on it for large caliber weapons or something ? And even if it does, can't you still drop a line in the water from it, or is it surrounded with some kind of barrier or protective shield ?

I'm just asking?

Blessed
04-03-2010, 08:58 AM
I have to continue off subject here...Why can't you use one boat to do all 3 things. They sound very similar to each other.
When I started reading the sentence, I thought you were going to say something like; "..one for Racing, one's a sail boat, and a fishing boat."

..(here comes my wildlife, citified ignorance) Can't you shoot waterfowl from the same boat that you fish from ? I mean does the waterfowl boat have a rifle mount on it for large caliber weapons or something ? And even if it does, can't you still drop a line in the water from it, or is it surrounded with some kind of barrier or protective shield ?

I'm just asking?

Well... technically yes. Two of the boats are jon boats. Our fishing/playing boat is a 1960 Lowe Roughneck with a 65 HP Jet drive motor on it. We can waterfowl hunt from that boat, but... it's a little big for waterfowl hunting - because we are normally hunting marshy areas, flooded fields, in the shallows of the big lake, etc... and the jet drive gets clogged up with the weeds, crops, and stuff that are in those shallow waters. So... we have a 2nd 14 foot Jon Boat with a mud motor on it - a mud motor basically turns your boat into the equivalent of a 4-wheeler, but for water. That boat also has a permanent hunting blind on it - so that when we get to where we are hunting all we have to do is set decoys and hunt. Before we had the 19 foot jon boat we had a 17 ft jon boat with a propeller driven motor that we used for hunting and fishing. When we fished the rivers around here we had to carry a spare propeller at all times because of all the submerged logs, and junk that we always seem to hit. It didn't work out nice for hunting either because the propeller would get tangled up with weeds and marsh junk and the pop-up blind we had could be a pain in the neck and had to come off and be stored during fishing season. Finally, we also have a layout boat - a one man hunting boat that is poled or paddled - it is wood and fiberglass.

clear as mud?

Long story short - Hubby likes his toys to be application specific. If I'd let him he'd get another 4 wheeler too - that way he'd have one for when he was cutting firewood and another one for hunting and trail riding. I told him he couldn't have another 4-wheeler until he bought me one, so he bought a motorcycle instead it "saves him gas money" when the weather is nice and he can ride it to work instead of driving his truck. :rolleyes: That's ok though - I have a nicer laptop :D

Harold Mansfield
04-03-2010, 12:17 PM
O.K., now that all makes perfectly good sense. As you can probably tell, the only hunting I've ever done is at the local nightclub, and my most recent fishing expedition was looking for loose change in between the couch cushions.

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2010, 03:37 AM
OK Folks, if anyone is still following this thread..I think I have something that I can work with now.

Fixed and solved a few issues:
First the original layout wasn't ever going to work so I ditched it and started a new one.

Everything seems to be functioning fine:

*Free Blog Registration
*Group creation
*Forum for support questions and discussions
*Activity stream to get an overview of member activities (thinking about including member Facebook and Twitter updates, but that could get to be a little too much)
*Latest Post from members function is working on the Home page
*Member, Group, Subject,Forum and Blog Directories Search.


On the Admin side:
*Anti spam/splog and recaptcha
*Users limited to one blog per.
*Just got a download of 100 well tested user themes a la EDU Blogs
*Autoblog capability set up to keep fresh content flowing through the activity stream for now.
*Added some ad blocks for affiliate and ad banners
*Instant registration notification.
*Admin approval only may or may not be working..still not sure..right now it's set for invitation only, so you have to email to join and I'll issue a code for sign up until I can come up with something better.

*Custom Dashboard widget for community news and messages
*Adshare and rev share is set up, but probably won't use it.
*Ability to ad advertisement across the network
*Pretty much everything should be functioning.

**A few extras I added include the Wibya toolbar at the bottom for games, live TV (will be set for comedy programming), and you can view, join or interact with the sites Facebook and Twitter pages without leaving the site. Also includes subscription and social bookmarking links. Really saves a lot of space.

**Disqus comment system is a great plug in for comments and it makes a really nice comment template on your bog that can be signed in using Facebook, Yahoo, Twitter, Open ID or your Wordpress credentials.

I still have to mop up a few things on the back end like install the new blog themes for users and add a few widgets and such. Finish the FB and Twitter pages.

At the moment, technically speaking, I don't know of any known issues.
I tried to keep it simple, clean but most of all functional.

By the way, I'm still struggling with a short but sweet descriptive tag line if anyone has any ideas.

If anyone is still interested in giving some opinions, I could use them.
The Link (http://fugget.com) Again
Edited:
Scratch that, just found out my hosting company is doing Cloud Storage Maintenance tonight until 5 a.m. Should be up by Sunday Morn.

vangogh
04-04-2010, 01:10 PM
First thing I noticed is the popup to check out the new toolbar. I hate popups of any kind. I'd leave the site immediately. You don't need to tell me to check out the toolbar. It's pretty visible on its own.

The layout looks good. Pretty easy to find stuff. Looks good.

I do notice you're showing as admin. I think it would work better to show with a real name. When I see "admin posted" it feels so impersonal.

Clicking through to a couple of articles I have a question. At the top of the home page I see "The Web's Wittiest Community. Express your sense of humor. Start a free blog today !" yet the two articles I read aren't funny or meant to be. They're news stories about comedians. I think news has a place on the site, but the line at the top sets an expectation that when I read content I'll be laughing along as I do.

There are some deleted posts showing under the posts you might also like listings.

I realize there aren't a lot of members yet and you're posting most, if not all, of the content. However to encourage new signups it might a good idea to feature member blogs in the sidebar instead of the More articles and how to's. The How to's could all be listed under one section that has a link in the main navigation. I guess you do show member posts, but maybe a featured member blog.

I still like the idea. I think the first thing to do is get more content going, particularly humor articles.

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2010, 01:36 PM
First thing I noticed is the popup to check out the new toolbar. I hate popups of any kind. I'd leave the site immediately. You don't need to tell me to check out the toolbar. It's pretty visible on its own.


Yep. I can definitely disable that. I actually meant to..I hate that as well.


I do notice you're showing as admin. I think it would work better to show with a real name. When I see "admin posted" it feels so impersonal.

Noted. will change that.


Clicking through to a couple of articles I have a question. At the top of the home page I see "The Web's Wittiest Community. Express your sense of humor. Start a free blog today !" yet the two articles I read aren't funny or meant to be. They're news stories about comedians. I think news has a place on the site, but the line at the top sets an expectation that when I read content I'll be laughing along as I do.

Well, I still don't have a descriptive tag line that's appropriate. Still working on that
The other problem is, there are no members yet and I suspect the 5 that have registered are waiting to spam as soon as I lift the blog creation restriction so I will probably be deleting and banning them pretty soon.

Other than that, personally, I'm not really that funny..so I need to gather some content, a writer or something to help with some humor articles. There are a few friends on my Facebook page that were always funny...I'll probably solicit them to start.

The premise is that I want to attract humorous bloggers,as well as, any industry people... but the main page of the site will feature a combination of industry news, featured bloggers and hopefully some funny articles.

As people sign up and start posting, the Sitewide posts feed will pick up their articles instead of what I have fed there now.


There are some deleted posts showing under the posts you might also like listings.

Yes, I am moving those posts to the forum via the Support Group and will be phasing them out as soon as I get some content to replace them. That will be where all support and help articles will be. Right now they are just there for aesthetics.



I realize there aren't a lot of members yet and you're posting most, if not all, of the content. However to encourage new signups it might a good idea to feature member blogs in the sidebar.

As soon as I get some members, that is exactly what I want to do in the middle section.
The sidebar is a feed of all blogs on the network, which right now is just one that I set up to autoblog.

Thanks VG. Some Good tips.

Spider
04-04-2010, 02:41 PM
...I do notice you're showing as admin. I think it would work better to show with a real name. When I see "admin posted" it feels so impersonal...OTOH, I think it helps to know that the person posting is the admin. I suggest "Harold (admin) posted.)

Harold Mansfield
04-04-2010, 02:54 PM
OTOH, I think it helps to know that the person posting is the admin. I suggest "Harold (admin) posted.)
OK, sounds good.

vangogh
04-05-2010, 10:49 AM
The premise is that I want to attract humorous bloggers,as well as, any industry people... but the main page of the site will feature a combination of industry news, featured bloggers and hopefully some funny articles.

Makes sense. Guess I would try to get something in there about the news in the tagline as well as the comedy.

Is there anyone you can get to write or can you afford to hire a comedy writer? I think to attract comedy you're going to have to supply some. If all the posts are news then that's what people are going to think of the site and my guess is most people aren't going to sign up to publish more news.

Harold Mansfield
04-05-2010, 10:58 AM
Makes sense. Guess I would try to get something in there about the news in the tagline as well as the comedy.

Is there anyone you can get to write or can you afford to hire a comedy writer? I think to attract comedy you're going to have to supply some. If all the posts are news then that's what people are going to think of the site and my guess is most people aren't going to sign up to publish more news.

Yeah, I have a list of humor bloggers that I have been accumulating. Some don't post as often as they used to. I plan on inviting them to make a guest post or to import over to my platform/domain.
I'm trying to sprinkle a few witticisms around. I know I'm going to have to get funny, or get someone funny to help out so that I can get the domain bookmarked around the horn and seen with some good stuff.

On my music site, I was fortunate enough to get the support of the big names and their management, so I always have information about the well known entities in the niche. Smaller, less established production and record companies, DJ's and such chomp at the bit to have their articles and press along side the 'big dogs' and email me constantly about it.

I'm hoping to attract the same kind of interest, Getting the press is easy, once you make a few people look good, everyone wants theirs posted too.
Writing funny articles is the hard part, I am no good on demand.
Right now I have a story about 'Making out with Phyllis Diller at a dive bar in Vegas ' that needs some fine tuning (Cloris Leachman and Mitzi Gaynor were there..it was a whole thing) , and I'm pretty witty with the political stuff, but other than that, I definitely need so me help.

I'm sure I'll come up with something...I always do. Creating a tag line and description is harder for me than anything else.

vangogh
04-05-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm sure you can come up with something. I've read your political stuff and while it isn't specifically meant to be funny all the time, you do manage to inject humor into the posts.

With the bloggers you want to approach I would think that as long as you can offer them something in return you should be able to get them to write. Then if the site delivers them traffic or some other benefit it should keep them writing. Maybe you could offer to split some of the revenue generated from any post they write.

Harold Mansfield
04-05-2010, 02:00 PM
This certainly has been a long one, 3 weeks ago I had no clue what to do with it and now it seems to be coming together.
I'm almost ready to start promoting it by weeks end.
Just a couple of more slight tweaks and additions as soon as I can find the right scripts.

All of the input has been great. Thanks to everyone so far.

Spider
04-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Re: the humor - don't belittle yourself as far as political humor is concerned. What do you think David Letterman, Jimmy Kimmel, Jay Leno and all the others do for their opening monologue every night? Not that I think any of them are particularly funny, but I make excuses for them in that they have to come up with something every night.

If you can make the robot smile (VG - well, he keeps telling us he's a robot!) then you can certainly hold your own with the nightly hosts. And they get paid the big bucks!

Perhaps all you have to do is confine yourself to political wittisisms and let your fans/bloggers do the rest.

Harold Mansfield
04-05-2010, 06:09 PM
Re: the humor - don't belittle yourself as far as political humor is concerned. What do you think David Letterman, Jimmy Kimmel, Jay Leno and all the others do for their opening monologue every night? Not that I think any of them are particularly funny, but I make excuses for them in that they have to come up with something every night.

If you can make the robot smile (VG - well, he keeps telling us he's a robot!) then you can certainly hold your own with the nightly hosts. And they get paid the big bucks!

Perhaps all you have to do is confine yourself to political wittisisms and let your fans/bloggers do the rest.

Thanks Frederick. That may have to be my ticket for now just to get the ball rolling.

On another another note. I need to reserve a few subdomains for admin purposes and possible expansion. Once I open the flood gates, it will be too late to commandeer a subdomain away from someone...so I need some suggestions.

I have blocked out the obvious profanity, holy deities, one letter and one number subdomains from registration and the spam blocker patrols for known spamming keywords like "Acai Berry", "******", "Percocet"and "Make Money Online"...and I'm going to whack them on sight anyway if any get through.

I plan to include a bookmarking option like Digg for people to submit funny articles and comedy information from across the web, and I also want to have a directory of already existing sites.

So for those I already have the subdomains:

Directory
Share

If it goes, then expansion will be an issue, I was mainly thinking localizing information for major markets or possibly turning them over to a reliable current events agent, so I have:

New York
LA
San Fransisco
Las Vegas

Can you guys think of any others that I may want to either set aside for admin, or stop people from registering for other reasons ?

vangogh
04-05-2010, 07:19 PM
If you can make the robot smile (VG - well, he keeps telling us he's a robot!)

…scanning options…scanning…scanning…select laughter…ha…ha…ha

Harold I'm partial to Denver and you should certain add D.C. to the list. Chicago, Atlanta, Seattle, pretty much any city in the U.S. with a population above a certain number.

DC and Chicago are probably the two largest areas you haven't included, but I could list quite a few other cities. How many do you want to call out in this way?

Harold Mansfield
04-05-2010, 09:14 PM
I already added Chicago and will add DC, Atlanta and Miami. I don't want to do too many, I just want to make sure I don't overlook any obvious big opportunities.

I noticed on other blog networks that they secured a good number of good subdomains that they are just sitting on with filler content on them.

I don't want to do that but if an opportunity comes, I'd like to have them available.

Spider
04-06-2010, 10:00 AM
I don't know how Houston compares with other major cities in the show biz sense, but Houston is the fourth largest city in the US and we do have a whole bunch of comedy clubs. And I hear we have a cult following in the movie-making world.

Austin is also very well regarded in the live music world - a la Austin City Limits. Austin is the capital of Texas although a much smaller city compared to Houston and Dallas.

Harold Mansfield
04-06-2010, 02:04 PM
Huston huh? Makes sense. I've never been there, but I understand that there is a robust nightlife.

I think I'm going to hold about 10 Cities and Keywords and just let the rest be available.
Thinking about coming up with some kind of solution to have certain blogs with good keyword subdomains, pending deletion that go inactive for a certain period of time, to free up the space for someone who wants to write.

For instance if you register Seattle.fugget.com and there is no activity for 90 days, you have to give it up and put the name back in the pool.
Of course all of this only makes sense if the site gets popular.

vangogh
04-07-2010, 10:34 AM
I was going to mention Houston, but I knew Frederick was in this thread and figured he'd mention it given where he lives.

Harold Mansfield
04-07-2010, 03:03 PM
I think I have it narrowed down to the top 10 city names that I want to keep as well as a few that I'm keeping aside should I find a contributor that can run with it.

I think I'm ready. Gotta finish the Facebook and Twitter Page and hack out a press release and I'm going for it. Besides, I have 2 more to build now that I have a handle on the software and it's application.

Anyone else have any last minute suggestions or critiques?
the link again (http://fugget.com).

Harold Mansfield
04-20-2010, 09:01 AM
Well after careful review, it looks like I am going to have to make this one invitation only.
I thought the content on the site was perfectly clear what it's purpose was, but between spammers (the stupidest people on the web) and teen girls starting personal blogs, I just don't have the patience.

The spam blocker work great, people just suck.
So I guess when I do an official launch and start requesting press from the Comedy Industry, I'll make it clear that they will need a code to register a blog.

Sucks, I thought I could leave it open, but people really are stupid.

I just don't understand the mentality of people that know that doing something is an exercise in futility, and they will be caught, yet do it anyway.

It is perfectly clear that I will catch splogs in seconds and delete, report, and block you and yet people still do it.

I mean..they're spammers, are they really so disillusioned as to think they are smarter than anyone?

Spammers are the stupidest people on the web, because they leave behind their identity. How dumb is that?

OK, rants over.

Spider
04-20-2010, 09:18 AM
Well, now that you've got that off your chest, maybe you could look back on those teenage girl blogs - I'll bet they will give you a laugh or two and cheer you up!

Harold Mansfield
04-20-2010, 09:30 AM
Well, now that you've got that off your chest, maybe you could look back on those teenage girl blogs - I'll bet they will give you a laugh or two and cheer you up!

They get deleted immediately. I don't even mess around, they can go to blogger for that.
The way I see it is, if I allow one unrelated blog, it tarnishes the whole purpose of trying to build a niche community.
I'd rather have no blogs, and just try and make money from ads and affiliate banners, than to have one person in the industry check it out and see a bunch of splogs.