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View Full Version : Need a New FTP. Suggestions ?



Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 09:34 AM
I've had it with Fire FTP. It has been reliable for well over 2 years, but lately it has been dropping files consistently.
Not a lot, but enough to cause problems. Almost like clockwork, If I install anything with a good number of folders like WP, or V-Bulletin, it is going to leave out a file or two in some of the folders.

I sued to be able to drag and drop an entire WP installation on a domain and have it done fairly quickly...now it is unreliable. I have to go through each folder to make sure that it didn't leave any files out.

I have tried the paid version of Smart FTP...Too Slow. Extremely slow. It was great 3 years ago when it was free.

I have Filezilla, but I'm not crazy about it. Still kind of slow

There has to be something out there that is reliable, and fast, that can upload something like a WP installation without timing out or dropping files.

Spider
03-14-2010, 10:29 AM
I use - have always used - WS_FTP

I think it's from Ipswich -- Network Monitoring, Secure & Managed File Transfer, & Messaging - Ipswitch.com (http://www.ipswitch.com/)

I have a free version that I aquired many years ago. I have no idea if it is available in a newer version or whether they have a paid "professional" version. I also have no idea how it compares to those others you tried, but it does well for me, has never caused me any grief and has never let me down.

vangogh
03-14-2010, 12:04 PM
FTP is built into my code editor, but when I need a standalone FTP program I always use Filezilla. I'm not sure what kind of problems you've had with it, but it's always worked well for me.

When it comes to timing out the issue isn't necessarily your FTP program. It could be the settings you're using and it could also be how the server is set up. It could even be your ISP.

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 12:19 PM
FTP is built into my code editor, but when I need a standalone FTP program I always use Filezilla. I'm not sure what kind of problems you've had with it, but it's always worked well for me.

When it comes to timing out the issue isn't necessarily your FTP program. It could be the settings you're using and it could also be how the server is set up. It could even be your ISP.

Well that was my first reaction, blame someone else of course. When I had the last set of tech guys out from Cox, I drilled them with all kinds of questions about upload speed, and consistency and I am 75% sure that it's not on their end, although they did allude that a network upgrade was needed in my area and is supposed to be done mid month.

I noticed the issue of dropping files a few months ago...you can see it as the files are loading, but at first it was quirky, but it soon went from "Hmmn, that's strange" to "WTF is this crap!?" real fast.
I have the same issue using a broadband card, but I chalked that up to the card and the wireless network.

Maybe I'm trying to upload too many files at once. I even tried the 'one folder at a time' method and it still will leave out 1 or 2 files out of 35 in a folder, or just install the subfolders, and no files. Not always, but a lot of times.

Most of my errors have been coming from incomplete installations and it is really starting to unnerve me.

Those of you that upload a lot of files like Wordpress, do you drop the entire installation on at once, or do you piece it together ?

billbenson
03-14-2010, 12:50 PM
I use Filezilla as well. I've never seen a complaint about it being slow or dropping files. For speed I would be more suspect of your hosts server than anything. The dropped files, if that happens with more than one program I'd say ISP or Hosts Server.

The other day, in trying to see what the real speed I was really getting, I found a 60M file that you could download via FTP to see what your real download speed was. My speed was between 700K and 1.2G BTW.

In any case, you might get a really large file (just one file) and upload it to your server and see if it barfs. That would at least tell you if its a communication error. You could also calculate your upload speed that way.

My thought is that somewhere (ISP, Network, Host, or Server) is slowing down, stopping, or corrupting data. When that happens the file is not saved to the server and your FTP program goes onto the next file?

vangogh
03-14-2010, 12:51 PM
I don't think it's about blaming someone else in this case. You have to look at all the different points in the process and realize any of them could be causing the problem. I've noticed when connecting to some servers there's never a problem and with other servers I get disconnected every few minutes. I think some hosts set a server to timeout sooner than others as a security measure.

When transferring files I've done it both ways where I move everything over at one and moved select files and folders in smaller batches. Just depends on the server and how much I'm having to upload at once. With WordPress I often move all the files in the root and then each of the 3 folders (admin, content, includes) as distinct batches, though I'll also move the entire thing up at once.

billbenson
03-14-2010, 12:54 PM
As a related question, can you upload a zipped or tar'd site or group of files and untar them on the host? If so, how do you do that?

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 02:09 PM
I use Filezilla as well. I've never seen a complaint about it being slow or dropping files. For speed I would be more suspect of your hosts server than anything. The dropped files, if that happens with more than one program I'd say ISP or Hosts Server.

I can't really say that it's happened with more than one program. I have used Fire FTP pretty exclusively for almost 3 years.



My thought is that somewhere (ISP, Network, Host, or Server) is slowing down, stopping, or corrupting data. When that happens the file is not saved to the server and your FTP program goes onto the next file?

Yes, that is exactly what happens, and I see it when it does. I've been shouting explicatives at my computer all week because of it...every time I see that one red line "Couldn't establish connection with host" fly by, and then it goes on to the next 30 or so files and uploads them just fine.

So my initial thought was that the host is reestablishing the connection every 30 files or so, but sometimes it happens on the outset, and then goes on and uploads the next 100 files.


I don't think it's about blaming someone else in this case. You have to look at all the different points in the process and realize any of them could be causing the problem. I've noticed when connecting to some servers there's never a problem and with other servers I get disconnected every few minutes. I think some hosts set a server to timeout sooner than others as a security measure.

If I had to look at my internet connection, it seems to be pretty solid, although I do experience a lot of "Error Establishing Connection" time outs when surfing (I guess since Fire FTP is a web based FTP, maybe that's the problem on the head), but I don't get any interruptions when I'm streaming music or video....but then again, doesn't that actually store so much on your computer to keep it playing smoothly (what ever the tech term is for that) ?

It's almost like my connection is constantly switching lines or something.

The tech did say that this new service draws from 3 different sources instead of just one..maybe that has something to do with it since it has increased since I got the DOCSIS modem.

At first, I'd turn off the streaming music when uploading and that would solve the problem, now that doesn't even work anymore.



When transferring files I've done it both ways where I move everything over at one and moved select files and folders in smaller batches. Just depends on the server and how much I'm having to upload at once. With WordPress I often move all the files in the root and then each of the 3 folders (admin, content, includes) as distinct batches, though I'll also move the entire thing up at once.

That's what I'm doing now, but I still find errors in some functions, only to find out that another file is missing and have to upload a single file in the middle of a folder of say 35.

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 02:34 PM
Right now I am hunting down files in a new WPMU installation. It must have left out 100 files in folders and sub folders all over the installation. I'm surprised it is even working at all.

Little things aren't working like image upload, avatar cropping and so on, only to check the folder and the cropper.js file is missing, or whole folders are blank.
Do you know how many files that is to hunt down and double check ?

The only good thing about it is, I have now actually seen every single folder, subfolder, file and image name in the entire installation of Wordpress MU, and Budddypress and am now seeing what each of them is responsible for based on little things that aren't working correctly.

For instance, my image up loader wasn't working, it wouldn't give me the little flash installer function with the light box..only to find out that the thick box subfolder at /includes/js/thickbox is missing 3 files..sheesh !

I am sure that will come in handy one day.

I can't believe it has gotten this bad.(my FTP)

Update:
It was more like 200 files skipped over in the installation. You know, at first I hit the WPMU forums for some answers and I found people posting all kinds of solutions that required editing source files to fix the problems but something inside told me that this can't be right. How can one installation work off of the exact same install files, but another is all whacky? There is no way that I have to edit the source files...something is not right from the beginning.

That was when I started going through each folder, subfolder and sub subfolder and comparing to see if each file was there, and they weren't.

Now it works and all of the little functions are operational, but I can't help but feel bad for all of the people on the forums pulling their hair out and editing source files based on posted advice, when the problem just may be that they are missing a file deep in a folder somewhere that didn't install.

I'll bet this post comes in handy for someone in the future, because everyone assumes that once the upload is complete, all of the files have to be there and the problem is with the program.

I probably learned more today than I have in months.

billbenson
03-14-2010, 03:41 PM
If you want, send me a zip file of what you are trying to upload and your password and I can try it from here. That would at least eliminate your ISP and route from the equation.

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 03:45 PM
If you want, send me a zip file of what you are trying to upload and your password and I can try it from here. That would at least eliminate your ISP and route from the equation.

I've been uploading Wordpress MU (http://mu.wordpress.org/latest.zip)

billbenson
03-14-2010, 03:57 PM
If you want me to download it and upload it to your site pm me the ftp info and what directory you want to put it in. Also, let me know if you want to delete whats there to see if I get a clean upload.

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 04:03 PM
If you want me to download it and upload it to your site pm me the ftp info and what directory you want to put it in. Also, let me know if you want to delete whats there to see if I get a clean upload.

Noooo...I got my install working now..dedicated IP with the proper wild card settings.... I ain't about to mess with it after what I just went through.

If anyone messes with anything, including my host, I'll have to kill them:) (no, seriously).

I thought you were going to test it on your FTP and see if everything uploads, but you really wouldn't know if any files are missing until you go through the install and that would entail having to set the wild card via my host, or go through each folder one by one.

I don't really have another domain that I want it on, everything else is live or sitting in a registrar folder and hasn't been DNS'ed over yet.

billbenson
03-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Ya got a laugh out of me there eborg. :)

Glad it's working

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 04:48 PM
Ya got a laugh out of me there eborg. :)

Glad it's working

As VG pointed out, it's frustrating, but I really learned a lot today about truly troubleshooting problems deep inside the program files.

Spider
03-14-2010, 07:18 PM
...I probably learned more today than I have in months.So, it was worth it, in the end. You are now more educated than you were yesterday. Which means you are more valuable.

Increase your billing rate! :D

Harold Mansfield
03-14-2010, 08:21 PM
Which means you are more valuable.
Increase your billing rate! :D

You are really beginning to know me well. I'm touched:o

vangogh
03-15-2010, 10:32 AM
How do you have things set to transfer? Auto, ASCII, or binary. I used to use auto and would have problems with files missing. Now I transfer everything in binary and most of the problems have stopped.

I've also noticed that when another program starts doing its thing, like my feedreader pulling in new feeds, the FTP connection seems to then sit idle which is when it will time out.

Harold Mansfield
03-15-2010, 12:51 PM
How do you have things set to transfer? Auto, ASCII, or binary. I used to use auto and would have problems with files missing. Now I transfer everything in binary and most of the problems have stopped.

I've also noticed that when another program starts doing its thing, like my feedreader pulling in new feeds, the FTP connection seems to then sit idle which is when it will time out.

When I had issues with connecting with my wireless modem, my host told me to use Auto..I think I have had it set to Auto forever anyway.

I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

As far as stopping everything else that is pulling bandwidth or any kind of signal or connection at all, I shut them down before I even begin to mess with an FTP so nothing in my control interrupts the connection.

billbenson
03-15-2010, 02:00 PM
Thing is, binary files are for things like images. Text files are ASCII. Sounds like if its working on binary, its sending in Auto anyway?

vangogh
03-15-2010, 04:25 PM
Auto chooses which method binary or ASCII to use. When I used to have my FTP client set to auto I would encounter odd problems with some files. For instance two files would both upload fine, but their file names would be swapped. Binary can transfer any kind of file. I think the idea behind ASCII is that it can be more efficient if the file is only text. Don't hold me to that though.

After changing things so the transfer is alway binary I've run into so many less problems. Servers still time out on me, but no more files trading filenames and all files do get uploaded. If the connection times out during one file upload I always reupload that file just in case.

billbenson
03-16-2010, 05:51 AM
Interesting. I did a breif search. It seems that the receiving server looks to see if it is an ASCII file when uploaded and may do some sort of computability verification. Binary is a bit for bit upload. Works for ASCII files as well as binary; although no integrity check of the ASCII files. So you can't just select ASCII, but you can binary. Auto would appear to be better if it works?

Good info VG.

I think I asked above, but can you upload a zip or tar and unpack it on the server?

Harold Mansfield
03-16-2010, 09:59 AM
I think I asked above, but can you upload a zip or tar and unpack it on the server?

I have never tried to do it via FTP, but that is how WP uploads files from the dashboard.

Also, working on clients sites..1and1, that is the only way to upload files is zipped and then unzip them on the server.

And I also think I remember seeing that option via C-Panel.

Ooohhhh....I see where you are coming from...if I could just drop the zip in tact and unpack it on it's source, there would be no room for error or missing files since that only happens when uploading/ transfer...basically cutting out all the middle men..my ISP, my FTP, my Computer, and all relays in between.

You are a smart man Bill, I didn't even think of that.You know it's funny, I was working on a client's site and I could only access the server files via the control panel on his hosting account and it only took zipped files..a the time I considered that an inconvenience, but now I see that it is a fail safe.

vangogh
03-16-2010, 11:14 AM
Bill I wasn't sure exactly what was going on between the different ways to transfer files, though I did know binary was a bit by bit transfer. Experimenting over the years led me to decide it was the best and only method I'll use to transfer files.

Good idea about uploading the zipped file and then unpacking it on the server.

Paper Shredder Clay
03-17-2010, 05:53 PM
I use Filezilla. They are always making updates for it, but it has always been stable for me.