should i tell the builder?

[huggytree]

i have a brand new customer...she's great...im on my 2nd project and ive bid on 2 others..ive been told i have always been the low bid and that they are impressed with me....the relationship isnt solid yet though...they still get competitive bids and it sounds like they jump from plumber to plumber every year....

its a higher end builder...not top notch, but definately above average...they build and remodel lake homes...

i did a basement bathroom remodel for them 2 days ago. It was on a 3 year old house which they built...i noticed some plumbing 'issues' w/ the house. Nothing earth shattering, but a couple of minor code violations and a few sloppy/quality issues...things i wouldnt do or things i do much better...

here's my question:

do i gain anything by showing her the code violations and quality flaws? I like to show off the quality things I do, but it may make me look bad or make them feel akward if i show the flaws on their house...I want to show her so she knows that the plumber she used was flawed and let her know how i would have done them differently....is this a positive or negative for me?

i vote negative..........but i keep thinking it could help me and prove im a Super Plumber and not an ordinary one....im 60/40 against

[Spider]

You could point it out without making the other plumber look bad. It doesn't matter if you do, of course, but, as you already realise, making the other plumber look bad can translate into making the builder look bad.

If the faults are not earth-shattering, they likely won't cost much to fix. If that is the case, you could say, "While I was working, I noticed .... was not to code. It won't take me much to fix it - would you like me to do that for you?"

Say nothing about cost, unless asked, and say nothing about the other plumber having done it wrong.

When you present your bill, don't charge for the corrective work and remember to point out that you are not charging for it. Now you have been the "good guy" twice - once when you were skilful enough to notice the error and again when you were the "good guy" for not charging for repairing it.

If the corrective work will be substantial enough that you must charge, just tell the builder (but not the homeowner) that the eror exists and make no suggestion about repairing it. "I thought you'd like to know that I saw ..... and that could be a potential problem in the future. And, considering the quality of the client's furnishings, a leak (or whatever) could raise a nasty insurance claim. Just thought I'd better bring it to your attention." Say nothing about fault, blame, second-rate plumbers or anything of that sort.

That's what I would do.

[Steve B]

Shouldn't you be looking at this from a professional ethics point of view - rather than a how can I make more money based on how I handle it pont of view?

I would hope and expect any plumber that noticed a code violation in my house would point it out to me. I would think you could risk losing your license if you don't point out code violations.

[Spider]

I don't imagine we are talking about professional ethics violations, Steve, like someone fiddling the books and defrauding a company. Dave will have to say what "minor code violations and .. sloppy/quality issues..." actually were, but I thought he was talking about a poorly made joint or the wrong type of pipehanger being used, or something quite insignificant.

[nighthawk]

If the corrective work will be substantial enough that you must charge, just tell the builder (but not the homeowner) that the eror exists and make no suggestion about repairing it. "I thought you'd like to know that I saw ..... and that could be a potential problem in the future. And, considering the quality of the client's furnishings, a leak (or whatever) could raise a nasty insurance claim. Just thought I'd better bring it to your attention." Say nothing about fault, blame, second-rate plumbers or anything of that sort.

That's what I would do.

Given that you were the last one to do any plumbing in the house, you will likely be the one blamed if anything goes wrong - even if the leak was not with any of the work you did.

I think you need to raise the issue in a subtle way - dont blame the other plumber and make him look bad, but at the same time make sure the builder is aware of the issue. As Spider said - offer to fix it if its not a massive job.

[huggytree]

Spiders idea is a very good one..good job....its a more subtle way to handle it.

the only 2 problems i see is once you touch it you own it...the one problem has to do with the water heater....you need to have 18" of copper water pipe sticking out of the top before you transition to Pex or Cpvc and they have nothing.....if i touch the water heater they may blame me for any future issues with it...i dont want the liability with nothing in return...2nd problem is it would take 1 hour of my time to fix...too much for a freebee

the other issues are some of the parts are poor quality, some pipes arent strapped down well(floppy)...the funny one is they put a 90 too close to the main shut off valve...when you turn the valve handle it hits the pipe...they bent the handle horribly to fix it...its a bit funny...i would have fixed the problem and not bent the handle...very unprofessional...they put the hosebib shut off valves way to close to where the frost proof hosebib stubbs into the house...if it freezes and breaks there is a good chance it could be before the valve...so they wouldnt be able to shut it down...plus a cheap valve was used and too short of a hosebib (not sticking in far enough to properly prevent freezing...

to bring it up to my standards would take 2 hours+...cost would be $50 in parts...

the code violation would take the longest because id have to partially drain the system.....if i had to go back again i may do it and use Spiders idea.

If i dont fix it i may just point out the code violation to the builder and not make a big deal about it.....does it really need fixing? not really...i dont think anything bad will happen....im not sure why the code is there...i am assuming if they raised the temp. too high in the heater the plastic pipe could melt and burst...having 18" of copper would prevent the melting for a bit longer....odds are 1,000,000 to 1 that it would ever happen

part of my sales techinque is not only saying what i do right....its explaining and educating the builder on what the other guys do wrong...if it wasnt a house she built i would definately show her and give a price to fix....it would be an upsell and show her im an expert as the same time.

[cocoy]

Do you have to gain something for you to tell her about the code violation?

Why not just let her know before the city inspector or a buyer's inspector catches it?

I generally mention code violations or unsafe installations when I see them. I don't mention anything about the quality of the parts unless it was failing though.

[huggytree]

there will be no inspection on this project...many times there is no permits on remodels

its not a dangerous code violation

i mentioned the funny thing to her about the main shut off valve...where they plumbed it too close and had to bend the handle so it wouldnt hit the pipe...she got a little silent after.....she's a tough one to read, so i dont know what she thought...after that i shut up though....im there to do my job

[cocoy]

Sounds like she knows what's going on. It's one of those, "It works. It's good enough. Let's hope nobody else notices."