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Money And Mass
01-14-2010, 08:48 AM
I need Ideas other that paying a company money for a list of businesses with the owners names. I had been using the chamber of commerce, but I'm going to need more leads soon. How do lead generators get their info? How can I compile a list of business with the owners name and number?

Steve B
01-14-2010, 09:32 AM
If you don't want to pay a company for a list - you're going to be spending a lot of time doing your own research (phone book, Google, driving around and asking etc.). I can't imagine it is a cost effective use of your time to do this on your own.

vangogh
01-14-2010, 10:51 AM
I agree with Steve that the money spent might be worth the time of not having to build the list yourself.

If you want to build the list yourself you'll either need to find other places with the information that you can compile into a list or you'll have to give people something in exchange for the information you want from them.

KristineS
01-14-2010, 03:02 PM
Depending on your industry you can look for trade organizations. Some of those will have web site listings for their member businesses.

huggytree
01-15-2010, 07:32 AM
i have a database of all my potential customers - over 600...i compiled them mainly from the 2 builder associations i belong to and the phone book....i keep my eyes open when im driving for new builders and quickly write them down...

mailing lists cost $....i dont see any way around it.....i looked into getting mailing lists of all new people who just bought homes..very expensive....the local newspaper lists the addresses and prices of all houses sold....i tried sending them mailings....never got 1 response....i would spend hours typing them all in each week.what a waste

Paul Elliott
02-03-2010, 10:18 PM
What kind of business do you have?

What kind of businesses do you wish to reach?

What part of the Dallas area are you in? I'm very familiar with the area.

Paul

SL-Freelance
09-07-2010, 10:26 AM
Hi,
I specialise in Lead Generation for the SME both online and offline. I spend a large portion of my income on data. You need to ask yourself the following questions:
1) What Direct Marketing method will I use here - email marketing, telephone marketing, direct mail?
2) Who do I really want to be contacting - Head of Company, Head of a department, etc?
3) What is a sale worth to me- will the cost of the data be justified by the sales I make?

Always try to remember that the point of any sales campaign is to make more money - so work out the Return On Investment. Think about the words Return On 'Invstment' - if you 'invest' nothing - what do you expect to get as a return? If you think about buying data as an investment to make more money, it starts to make sense to buy the best data that you can.

If you can build your own database, it's probably the best data - although remember that it is out of date the day you write it - people move jobs a lot these days. If you're buying data then test it first - there is good data for sale out there and bad data.

<please set up a signature>

Designs&Details
09-14-2010, 05:35 PM
Has anyone had any success with Jigsaw.com for lead generation? I was just looking at their site and considering signing up for the free trial but wanted some feedback first.

vangogh
09-15-2010, 10:51 AM
Can't say I know much about them so I did a search for there name and the word review. This was the #1 result from Google. It's a post from TechCrnch called

Jigsaw is a Really, Really Bad Idea (http://techcrunch.com/2006/03/23/jigsaw-is-a-really-really-bad-idea/)

That post is a few years old now, but it still makes me want to avoid jigsaw. There were plenty of other reviews if you want to research it more.

Harold Mansfield
09-15-2010, 11:12 AM
Has anyone had any success with Jigsaw.com for lead generation? I was just looking at their site and considering signing up for the free trial but wanted some feedback first.

Sites like Jigsaw are not "lead generation". They sell contact information..big difference.
Lead Generation would be a site like Lending Tree, where people request information or to be contacted for a specific product.
Sites like Jigsaw merely provide you with people's contact information and it's a cold contact. They haven't shown an interest in your product..they don't even know you exist...you are basically soliciting.

If you are going to pay for contact information, I suppose people in sales do it all of the time, but don't confuse it with lead generation. Those aren't leads.

Designs&Details
09-15-2010, 01:52 PM
Can't say I know much about them so I did a search for there name and the word review. This was the #1 result from Google. It's a post from TechCrnch called

Jigsaw is a Really, Really Bad Idea (http://techcrunch.com/2006/03/23/jigsaw-is-a-really-really-bad-idea/)

That post is a few years old now, but it still makes me want to avoid jigsaw. There were plenty of other reviews if you want to research it more.

What an interesting article. Thanks for sharing!

sequoiapayroll
09-15-2010, 06:20 PM
Have you tried the county courthouse? You mentioned the chamber, but that will probably only include chamber members. Your local county courthouse will have a list of all new businesses started for as far back as you want to go. These reports are generally free, and I get mine e-mailed to me. YMMV

vangogh
09-15-2010, 08:06 PM
Sites like Jigsaw are not "lead generation". They sell contact information..big difference.

And from the looks of it they gather much of that contact information in less than honest ways. Not everyone who's info is listed has given permission or is even aware they're info is being sold.

Spider
09-15-2010, 09:06 PM
And from the looks of it they gather much of that contact information in less than honest ways. Not everyone who's info is listed has given permission or is even aware they're info is being sold.I presume you don't mean the county courthouse is getting its information in "less than honest ways'!!!!

Clarity as to which post you are answering would help :-)

vangogh
09-16-2010, 03:04 AM
No, I was responding to Harold's post. I'm not sure why I didn't see the other posts on this page. I guess I still had the last page open and thought Harold's was the last post. I'll add a quote to my post above to clear up any confusion.

rdcclu
09-23-2010, 03:13 PM
I have been using infoUSA for over 30 years. If you want/need to buy leads, I would start here.

One the other side of the coin, every business should have a list building mechanism in place. This entails driving traffic from many different sources (even off-line or off-line to on-line) to a page which captures their contact information. All you need to start is first name and email address.

This list will become one of your company's most valuable assets. It allows you to build trust, provide helpful information and market to the list over and over.

So there is a quick fix and a long term solution.

vangogh
09-24-2010, 12:29 AM
Right now my only list would be subscribers to my blog. About 10&#37; subscribe via email. Building a list is something I know I need to do more, but for whatever reason haven't yet. I have some ideas on how to go about doing it and really just need to actually do it.

gabearnold
09-28-2010, 02:27 AM
I have been using infoUSA for over 30 years. If you want/need to buy leads, I would start here.

One the other side of the coin, every business should have a list building mechanism in place. This entails driving traffic from many different sources (even off-line or off-line to on-line) to a page which captures their contact information. All you need to start is first name and email address.

This list will become one of your company's most valuable assets. It allows you to build trust, provide helpful information and market to the list over and over.

So there is a quick fix and a long term solution.

Good answer rdcclu. Lead generation IMO is a business owners job. Taking a list (from InfoUSA) and then combing through it, calling on it, and doing direct mail will create a leads list. Then the sales department in your company (which is often the owner as well) should begin prospecting off that leads list.

Lead generation is unique to every company, and should be studied on a case by case basis.

Spider
09-28-2010, 10:32 AM
With every business being advised to create an e-mail list (and a snail-mail list, if you feel inclined), and many of them doing so, I wonder just how many of this avalanche of advertising messages actually get read. So you have 200 people on your list - most, according to the last few posts, are people who have not done business with you and some, it would seem, haven''t even heard of you. How many of those 200 actually get opened, and once opened, how many of them are actually read?

If I count myself as typical, I would guess that I open 1 in 10, and read one of every five that I open. (And have an interest in virtually none, even those to which I have subscribed.) So, 2 percent 'get through' the indifference. That's pretty good, as I understand the rule of thumb is 1 percent get through. But the real question is, What percentage actually turn into customers?

I cannot think of one thing I have purchased or one service provider I have hired as a result of being on someone's mailing list, whether subscribed or not. And that after 15 years or more with an e-mail account.

How many here can honestly say their mailing list has produced new business, excluding repeat business from prior customers? And, if so, what are the figures? (size of mailing list, number of times mailed, number of completed customers generated, amount of business done, etc.)

Harold Mansfield
09-28-2010, 11:22 AM
How many here can honestly say their mailing list has produced new business, excluding repeat business from prior customers? And, if so, what are the figures? (size of mailing list, number of times mailed, number of completed customers generated, amount of business done, etc.)

I can't say that I have a mailing list per se'..it's mostly just past clients. Every now and then I'll send out a newsletter and it will generally produce a call or 2 for some maintenance work or an upgrade. At times it can also serve as a reminder that I have other services available.
I can honestly say that of the few newsletters I have sent, they all resulted in some kind of business, either from a referral, or additional service.

Spider
09-28-2010, 11:52 AM
Great, Harold - that tends to confirm my expectations - that e-mailing to previous customers can spark repeat business, while e-mailing to non-customers is pretty much a waste of time (and may even be negative) whether permission for the mailing has been sought or not.

Anyone else can confirm or refute this?

Harold Mansfield
09-28-2010, 12:08 PM
I don't think emailing people who have opted in is a waste of time, the conversions are just lower than that of existing customers or previous buyers and it's much lower for people who have not opted in...actually they don't even measure it by conversions, they measure it by opens (how many people actually open the email) and from what I remember..5 percent opens was a good number.

Spider
09-28-2010, 02:09 PM
I don't think emailing people who have opted in is a waste of time....But you also said
..I can't say that I have a mailing list per se'..it's mostly just past clients...I take that to mean that it is your opinion that it's not a waste of time but you don't actually have any firsthand experience that it is not a waste of time. Is that correct?

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion but I am trying to find people who have actually gained new business from e-mailing people who have never done business with them before, whether the mailing was requested or not.

rdcclu
09-28-2010, 02:27 PM
Spider--

I have first-hand experience. However, there needs to be a certain sequence of events to maximize the effectiveness.
1. The prospect must have opted in (double opt-in) to receive free information that they deem valuable and perceive it can solve some problem they have.
2. The information provided must be of the highest quality. Your best stuff. Information that you could easily charge money for.
3. The prospect is put into an autoresponder sequence that:
a. Provides two-thirds good information and one-third pitches.
b. Is consistent. I'm sure you have heard many times that a person needs to see a marketing message 7 times before they will take an action. Plus, their situation may change in six months and make your product all the more important to them.
4. This sequence is proven to take a cold lead and turn them into a suspect, prospect, lead and customer over time.

Harold Mansfield
09-28-2010, 03:10 PM
But you also said I take that to mean that it is your opinion that it's not a waste of time but you don't actually have any firsthand experience that it is not a waste of time. Is that correct?



No, what I mean is that it has a certain level of success, but from what I have seen, not enough for me to waste any time on it. I don't think that building a list is a good fit for my business. I would rather spend the time and money on advertising and SEO to catch buyers who are looking to make a decision rather than a long courtship of look-e-loo's looking for free information and do it yourself tips.

Every marketing method is not good for every type of business and some are just bad fits all together.
If I sold products I may see email marketing as something worth while, but for my business, I don't.

Just to add, I can name a few email marketing campaigns that I embrace and entice me to make a purchase. some I am a previous customer such as Amazon, HP and Vista Print others I asked to be on the mailing list to keep abreast of new products such as Alienware. I haven't purchased an Alienware computer yet, but I will and I actually enjoy seeing the new stuff that comes out so that when the times comes, I'll know exactly what model I want.

I have pretty much unsubscribed to all of my SEO, and web services emails, mainly because they are really spammy, too frequent., and are constantly pitching products that I will never pay for.

So for me, products..yes. Services..no.

Spider
09-28-2010, 04:51 PM
...I have first-hand experience. However, there needs to be a certain sequence of events...Okay, Bob - that's what *should* happen, you say. Can I presume that's what you did when you had your firsthand experience of winning new business from people who had never done business with you before?

And can I prevail upon you for some figures - size of mailing list, number of times mailed, number of new completed customers generated, amount of business done, or anything else conveniently available.? Of course, excluding business from people who had purchased previously.

You see, I hear lots of talk about how to build an e-mail list and how to use an e-mail list but I have never been able to find any figures that would indicate the efficacy of such marketing. That's what I'm looking for.

Spider
09-28-2010, 04:59 PM
No, what I mean is that it has a certain level of success, but from what I have seen, not enough for me to waste any time on it. I don't think that building a list is a good fit for my business...Again, I read from this statement that you have not actually achieved any new business from people who were not already clients or former-clients using these methods. While it is your opinion that, from what you have seen, some new business has been achieved by other people, not enough for you to consider doing it

Sorry if I am sounding pedantic, but I am trying to get to actual results, not hearsay.

Harold Mansfield
09-28-2010, 05:36 PM
Again, I read from this statement that you have not actually achieved any new business from people who were not already clients or former-clients using these methods. While it is your opinion that, from what you have seen, some new business has been achieved by other people, not enough for you to consider doing it

Sorry if I am sounding pedantic, but I am trying to get to actual results, not hearsay.

Yes. You are correct. Nor do I know of anyone in my exact field that seems to have a successful list that generates new business. I do however, know plenty of Wordpress service providers that use their list to sell related products such as plug ins, Themes (designs), and books. Sometimes proprietary, sometimes 3rd party (affiliate sales).

I also have a client that is in the Business Coaching field and they have told me that their newsletter is not really responsible for any significant new business. New business is mostly from referrals, personal networking (not web based) and direct contact from their website.

I think what ever stats you find are going to be a wide range depending on the business. For instance large email distribution marketers ( you would call spammers) get paid on the open..how many people on their list actually open the email. If they get a 5 percent open on 10 million sends, it's a good day. For most businesses without millions on their list, 5 percent open is hardly worth the effort.

But on the other hand, I'd be willing to bet a product like Alienware has a much higher open ratio because it's not the kind of list you sign up for, if you don't want, have, or dream about owning the product. People sign up because they want one.
Compare that to say a pharmaceutical spam blast of 5 million knock off ****** emails and they probably have a 1-2 percent open ratio, depending on how targeted it is and from what I have seen, many of them are not very targeted.

Spider
09-28-2010, 05:45 PM
Good. Thank you for the information, Harold.

Patrysha
09-28-2010, 06:10 PM
Mine has led to new business from people who have not previously purchased from me. But my numbers are so small they couldn't come close to being of statistical significance. And they only really apply to me. Also, I've achieved the same results in less time with other methods. Results wise it doesn't work as quickly, but the ones who do convert have all become premium clients...buying more, more often than all but one marketing method. Speaking yields the best results...

Spider
09-28-2010, 07:32 PM
Thanks, Patrysha. When you refer to statistical insignificance, do you mean small list and some become new clients - or do you mean huge list and a very small percentage become new clients. I think a list of 20 producing 10 new clients is very significant, and a list of 10,000 producing 25 new clients is only 0.25 percent but 25 new clients might be quite handy to have. 25 new clients in one go would totally overwhelm me!

Regarding your speaking - Do your mean, like, just talking to people, networking, perhaps - or do you mean public speaking and presentations to groups. I'd like to know more about your success in this area, because I keep saying I must do more of this and I am certainly capable.

Patrysha
09-28-2010, 11:02 PM
In my case I mean small list :-) It's a list of just under 100. One of the problems is I can't remember with some if they were subscriber's first or customers first. I know at least three sales in the past couple of months were people who have been on my list for a while...

I suppose it could mean networking, but I was speaking of presentations...

Spider
09-29-2010, 09:13 AM
Regarding your presentations, then, how do you get invited to speak?
Do you charge a fee for speaking or treat it as a group sales pitch?
How long are your presentations?
Do you "perform" - do demonstrations, Powerpoint - or just speak?
What do you speak about?
To whom do you speak?
What else can you tell me to help me do something like that in Houston?

TIA

Patrysha
09-29-2010, 09:56 AM
It varies...lol...but I will try :-)

My most recent one and my next scheduled presentation were/are paid presentations. Last year I was doing them for a meal and the chance to speak :-) On average they tend to be about an hour, but I have visions of workshops. My very first public presentation to business owners was about 7 years ago and I charged $75/pp...that was a three hour session that included a buffet dinner...

How did I get invited to speak? Last year I got two engagements through another speaker, in one case she had to pull out after committing and in the other she recommended me off the bat when she couldn't do a date. This one coming up in Ontario, they found me through my website and the one I did last week, they asked me to speak at their annual general meeting during a project I was doing for them late last year and into the beginning of this year (web copy and a new brochure) which came about because on of their members is a local client.

My most recent session I took my television and a DVD player because the hotel wanted more for the projector and screen day rental than the group was paying for the session! So when the organization president contacted me a week or so before the event with that news, I improvised with my own equipment. Had to go with DVD because the new laptop I've got doesn't have an s-cord outlet...grrr - My first session in Ontario will be in a restaurant so that will be flip chart style.

Now this is mostly for live speaking, I've done a fair bit of online interviews, podcasts and webinar type thing (and I'm gearing up to do more of those when I can tame my schedule again) those are more visual. I personally try to be more of a facilitator than just a speaker...I like my audience involved and engaged as much as possible.

I speak about marketing, publicity and other topics of interest to small business owners serving a local market....non profit organizations would be an offshoot market...if you PM me your email addy I can send you the PDF I created of my current topic suggestions that I sent to the group that hired me in Ontario. I need to edit it up some to be a decent speaking catalog but I had to pull it together quick because the invitation was unexpected and I did not want to miss the opportunity.

I don't know about specific advice in Houston. I've poured over tons of books and bought an expensive speaking course when it went on a supersale as part of a launch for another speaking product from a vendor I already sort of knew through a prior coaching freebie...truthfully I still haven't properly worked through the lessons and homework. I've had more success outside of my immediate local area than within it.

Harold Mansfield
09-29-2010, 10:28 AM
You can also go through a 3rd party. I don't know a lot about this, but I do know that there are companies or "agents" that book public speakers for various functions in a variety of areas and niches.
I'm sure that there has to be such an agency in the Houston area to get your feet wet locally or around TX.

When you do revamp your website, you may want to add that you are available for public speaking to your contact information and market yourself.

Spider
09-29-2010, 10:54 AM
Thanks to you both - most helpful.

Patrysha - you might want to consider investing in a projector that can run off your laptop. I have a Viewsonic projector that plugs directly into a USB port on my laptop and will project whatever is on the computer monitor. And most venues have somewhere white or light-colored (like a wall) that will serve as a screen. Or buy a screen, too. Then you are independent of the facilties, but for a power supply. I never obtained Powerpoint but did purchase Swish - a Flash video creator that was quite easy to learn to a rudimentary level, enough to make Powerpoint-type presentations.

I'll PM for your speaking catalog (great name for it, btw.) Thanks.

Patrysha
09-29-2010, 11:50 AM
Yeah, I have been considering a projector or projector/screen combo. It wasn't an issue until recently because I had access to borrowing when I needed to. And because my old computer could hook up directly to the tv and I could rig up extra sound with external speakers, but then I had to go fry it with coffee...

We just had a new laptop arrive yesterday...I haven't checked it out yet as it is intended to be hubby's new computer...