So should I even try to continue being a member here?

[Money And Mass]

My second post was deleted becuase of an infraction, thats cool whatever, but I'm seriously trying to get help to start a business. I need to find an Investor or get some Ideas on how I can get some money to open up a callcenter.

Anybody interested in talking to me?

[Money And Mass]

I cant get abusiness loan becuase I have terrible credit.

Finding an investor is more than difficult.

I would put it on a credit card if I had one, but I've never had one and cant get one until bad credit is taken care of.

I don't have any one willing to help me.

Nearly every dollar Im making goes right back into court costs ( on three different cases ), parole fees ( in two states ), warrants, and everything else I've managed to screw up in my young life. I'm making Insane money from my current business givin my situation ( no education, severe debt, violent felonies on record, all the cards are against me ) Im not having a pity party or anything like that, as a matter a fact things are looking up for me, at the rate I'm going, I will get out of this Hole(s) haha

So where does that leave me? I dont need a lot of money money in the broad spectrum of the universe, but is there anyone on this site that can give some word of wisdom to a newb???

[Patrysha]

I was actually about to respond before it was pulled.

I am not sure why everyone focuses on this investor thing...I was always under the impression that was more for big wads of cash that would be needed to pull a project together...for the rest of us there are savings and credit cards and banks and SBA's and family loans.

You are already making money at this...so if you combine saving towards opening with potential loans it shouldn't be too long until you have the funds you need.

Are there ways to virtualize what you do? I mean if you could find a way to arrange the calls to forward to VA's and other work at home types who are looking to make $$ at home, you wouldn't need an office for the call centre...

[Patrysha]

Okay so you're in a tight spot (didn't read the second post before I posted what I just wrote)...

So what can you do?

I don't know off the top of my head, but a little brainstorming really couldn't hurt.

[Money And Mass]

And thats been offered to me, but the problem is with my type of business...
I need an actual office so that I can regulate the types of people that I have working for me to make sure things go smoothly. If I was to let people work from home my business wouldnt last too long...

And yes Im making money but on average it's about $1000/wk which I've got to hire an attorney for this new "resisting arrest/cps" case that I've got, which btw is is total bs. Cps has steped in and tore my family apart for nothing so I've got to get that resolved and Its going to take alot of money thats already going toward the above + getting out of debt/ behind on rent ( which is almost caught up )

Thanks for your reply, was starting to think I wasn't welcome here :)

[Money And Mass]

Okay so you're in a tight spot (didn't read the second post before I posted what I just wrote)...

So what can you do?

I don't know off the top of my head, but a little brainstorming really couldn't hurt.

are you actually asking me what I can do?

[Evan]

Have you considered a lending site such as Prosper.com? There are others like it too, but it allows you to put up all your information and have people "bid" on your loan. I'd probably spare all of the unnecessary details, but describe what your business is, and why you deserve the loan. The interest rate may be high, but it's better than nothing, and it will go on your credit score, so if you are good with this loan, it'll help increase your rating -- maybe enough to get a credit card or open up some other avenues.

Be prepared to discuss why your credit history is bad -- but stick to what really has affected it. Bidders also seek people with some fixed income coming in. If you do not have any "guaranteed income" (aka a job where you're paid wages, versus a business with revenues that aren't guaranteed) -- that may not go over the best.

[Money And Mass]

never heard of them but I'll definitly check it out thanks!

[Money And Mass]

That was quick, They said that my credit score was "thin" meaning that theres not enough on my credit to report, however my bank told me about 4 or 5 five negs on my credit, nothing good

and i cant have an account with proper without a credit score...

[vangogh]

First I just want to clarify. I deleted the original post, because when I initial read it, it came across as asking us to invest. I reread it right after and realized it was asking advice about investing. My bad. Seems Money and Mass was starting this thread about the same time I was sending the PM apologizing for the error.

Now on to the question at hand.

I assume you can at least keep some of the money you're making and not have to give it all to court costs, etc. Is it possible you could save something on what you get to keep and reinvest some in your business? I realize you wouldn't be able to buy everything you want and hire all the people you want for your business, but you could expand on a smaller scale.

You can certainly try the site Evan recommended and see what happens.

The kind of investing you're looking for would seem more likely to come from individuals than a company given it's not a huge amount of money. Also investors invest because they expect a return on that investment. While you're business can grow, I'm not sure it's in the kind of way investors usually look for.

What about finding a partner for the business? I know that usually starts by approaching the people you say aren't in your life currently. Still you could start building a network of people both online and offline. Sooner or later you'll likely find someone willing to be a silent partner. The hard part is that until people know you they'll have a hard time trusting in you enough to invest. Once people do get to know you they'll be much more likely to invest.

[Evan]

I agree with vangogh, a business partner may be helpful, as then you can pool resources. Even if they don't have stellar credit, getting ACCESS to credit is important.

My only other suggestion would be to see if you can find a SECURED credit card. Typically they'll give you a credit card with a limit up to the amount you deposit -- or sometimes an amount higher than that. This gives them something, in the event of a default. Usually the credit terms are not the best, and some may require it to be paid in full each month (more of a charge card than credit) or charge high interest rates. Ideally, you just want to get your feet wet and start showing you are responsible with credit.

[Evan]

and i cant have an account with proper without a credit score...

Do you have NO credit or BAD credit? If you have NO credit, usually institutions are willing to lend to people to establish credit.

If you've abused credit, you still have a credit score -- albeit low.

[Harold Mansfield]

Curious..what kind of call center ? Doing what ? Selling what ? Incoming or Outbound ? Cold calls or qualified leads ?

I used to work in a call center, a pretty big one..they are now completely defunct as of Feb this year and all the other call centers in that same industry are also gone or have tremendously downsized to a handful of employees.

Call centers are pretty dead right now. Sure there are a few exceptions, but the industry as a whole is suffering and has been since early 2008.
It would of course depend on the nature of the call center...taking orders or pitching a product.

One thing I found out is that there are call centers that you can outsource to. the one we used basically qualified the callers and transferred viable leads to us..cutting down on the amount of unqualified leads and the need for hundreds of phone salesman.

I assume since you haven't mentioned a particular industry or product that your call center will be the middleman..basically taking or closing orders for another company.

With shoddy credit, and a criminal record including ongoing legal issues, and no collateral..your chances of getting any funding from an institution are slim to say the least right now.

Have you tried to approach the company that you will be fielding calls for, to invest in their own call center and letting you run it?

Sometimes you have to build up to the "big plan"...meaning..I notice that many people who are looking for funding want to jump right into the "main thing"head first with someone elses money, but rarely have a plan to work up to the main thing if they can't find anyone to front them the cash.

Here's what I mean, a friend of mine owns 2 bars. He was a bartender and manager for years and finally decided he wanted his own place..but he didn't just walk into the bank and say "I have experience, I want to open a bar"..He worked as a bar manager for a couple of years saving his money...when the market was good he purchased a home and an investment property and saved his money..when he finally found a location that he could afford and make successful..he sold one property and second mortgaged the other and found an investor..but that investor would have never thrown in a dime, if he wasn't all in with everything he had. What I'm trying to say is that he was patient, hard working, responsible, and worked up to it and did most of it himself...took him about 3 years. ( the overpriced housing boom helped a lot)

9 times out of 10, you are going to be the one responsible for more than 50% of your own funding if not all of it... Mortgage the house, borrow from friends and relatives, sell off all of your possessions, cash in life insurance. I don't see too much small business lending going on without having put in all of your own resources AND collateral. Most investors and Banks want to see that you are leveraged to the hilt and completely financially committed with everything you have before they even consider dishing out their money.
The days of walking into an office with "I have a great idea!" and nothing more and expecting a loan don't exist for the average working class entrepreneur who doesn't have a pot to piss in...I'm not sure they ever existed for anyone.

Another quick example..a buddy of mine has some lame brained idea that he wants to open a mobile Car and Home theater/ stereo installation business. I say "lamed brained" not because it's a bad idea, but because he thinks not having an investor is holding him back, but he is actually holding himself back...

1. You can't do Home Installations without a contractors license. Do you thing he has even studied for the exam to get licensed ? No.
2. It's a "mobile' business, but he has ticket issues. Do you think he has cleared those up ? No.
3. A DBA and Business license costs all of about $200. Do you think that he has at least taken that step. No, but he did purchase a 52" flat screen TV.
4. He wants to hire his buddy, who has ticket issues and a felony to work with him. (Can't be bonded)

His way of thinking is, once he finds an investor, he will take care of those things with the investment money.
How many people do you think are chomping at the bit to invest in him ? None. Would you?

When you ask people to invest...a small percentage of what you are asking them to invest in is the idea, the larger percentage of what they are investing in is you. If all they see is you sitting back waiting for someone to invest their money, you will never get a dime from anyone unless you have discovered Cold Fusion, or can design a server that can deliver 1 million spam emails per second.

[Steve B]

I think you should just accept the fact that you won't find anyone or any institution to lend you money. I just can't imagine the scenario where it would happen. People in far better situations are being denied credit.

Perhaps your plan for expanding this business needs to be put on hold. If you're aleady making money at it - it seems you should be able to keep moving forward - even if it's at a slower pace than you'd like.

[Money And Mass]

First I just want to clarify. I deleted the original post, because when I initial read it, it came across as asking us to invest. I reread it right after and realized it was asking advice about investing. My bad. Seems Money and Mass was starting this thread about the same time I was sending the PM apologizing for the error.

Now on to the question at hand.

I assume you can at least keep some of the money you're making and not have to give it all to court costs, etc. Is it possible you could save something on what you get to keep and reinvest some in your business? I realize you wouldn't be able to buy everything you want and hire all the people you want for your business, but you could expand on a smaller scale.

You can certainly try the site Evan recommended and see what happens.

The kind of investing you're looking for would seem more likely to come from individuals than a company given it's not a huge amount of money. Also investors invest because they expect a return on that investment. While you're business can grow, I'm not sure it's in the kind of way investors usually look for.

What about finding a partner for the business? I know that usually starts by approaching the people you say aren't in your life currently. Still you could start building a network of people both online and offline. Sooner or later you'll likely find someone willing to be a silent partner. The hard part is that until people know you they'll have a hard time trusting in you enough to invest. Once people do get to know you they'll be much more likely to invest.

Thats what Im doing now, I just want things to happen faster, I know that my business plan will work so I'm just ready to let let it take off, better now than later, better now than never...

I'm def looking for a partner, I've got one buddy that Ive known for about a year total that said he would help, but he wont be able to do any thing until summer, he's supposed to have a large number of connections for me too. I met with him today ( he just got back in town ) and he's all about it (for now, so he says ) guess I'll see what happens with that. I know better than to put faith in anybody who just says that they will do somthing so I'm still on the search for an answer

[Money And Mass]

Do you have NO credit or BAD credit? If you have NO credit, usually institutions are willing to lend to people to establish credit.
If you've abused credit, you still have a credit score -- albeit low.

I've got a bank account with a credit union but they are threatening to close my account becuase it was opened with no picture ID, I dont have picture ID it was supposed to be sent to me twice but I'm not getting it so I'm in the process of having to track it down via USPS/DPS. as long as I can get picture ID to the bank by the 10th, they wont close my account (if they do then Icant cant process credit cards anymore ) once I have picture ID I was planning on getting a credit card and making very small purchases and paying them in full to raise my credit.

I have credit and its bad, not too bad just 4 or 5 negs on report totaling ~ $1,000 in debt

[Money And Mass]

Curious..what kind of call center ? Doing what ? Selling what ? Incoming or Outbound ? Cold calls or qualified leads ?
I used to work in a call center, a pretty big one..they are now completely defunct as of Feb this year and all the other call centers in that same industry are also gone or have tremendously downsized to a handful of employees.

Call centers are pretty dead right now. Sure there are a few exceptions, but the industry as a whole is suffering and has been since early 2008.
It would of course depend on the nature of the call center...taking orders or pitching a product.

One thing I found out is that there are call centers that you can outsource to. the one we used basically qualified the callers and transferred viable leads to us..cutting down on the amount of unqualified leads and the need for hundreds of phone salesman.

I assume since you haven't mentioned a particular industry or product that your call center will be the middleman..basically taking or closing orders for another company.

With shoddy credit, and a criminal record including ongoing legal issues, and no collateral..your chances of getting any funding from an institution are slim to say the least right now.

Have you tried to approach the company that you will be fielding calls for, to invest in their own call center and letting you run it?

Sometimes you have to build up to the "big plan"...meaning..I notice that many people who are looking for funding want to jump right into the "main thing"head first with someone elses money, but rarely have a plan to work up to the main thing if they can't find anyone to front them the cash.

Here's what I mean, a friend of mine owns 2 bars. He was a bartender and manager for years and finally decided he wanted his own place..but he didn't just walk into the bank and say "I have experience, I want to open a bar"..He worked as a bar manager for a couple of years saving his money...when the market was good he purchased a home and an investment property and saved his money..when he finally found a location that he could afford and make successful..he sold one property and second mortgaged the other and found an investor..but that investor would have never thrown in a dime, if he wasn't all in with everything he had. What I'm trying to say is that he was patient, hard working, responsible, and worked up to it and did most of it himself...took him about 3 years. ( the overpriced housing boom helped a lot)

9 times out of 10, you are going to be the one responsible for more than 50% of your own funding if not all of it... Mortgage the house, borrow from friends and relatives, sell off all of your possessions, cash in life insurance. I don't see too much small business lending going on without having put in all of your own resources AND collateral. Most investors and Banks want to see that you are leveraged to the hilt and completely financially committed with everything you have before they even consider dishing out their money.
The days of walking into an office with "I have a great idea!" and nothing more and expecting a loan don't exist for the average working class entrepreneur who doesn't have a pot to piss in...I'm not sure they ever existed for anyone.

Another quick example..a buddy of mine has some lame brained idea that he wants to open a mobile Car and Home theater/ stereo installation business. I say "lamed brained" not because it's a bad idea, but because he thinks not having an investor is holding him back, but he is actually holding himself back...

1. You can't do Home Installations without a contractors license. Do you thing he has even studied for the exam to get licensed ? No.
2. It's a "mobile' business, but he has ticket issues. Do you think he has cleared those up ? No.
3. A DBA and Business license costs all of about $200. Do you think that he has at least taken that step. No, but he did purchase a 52" flat screen TV.
4. He wants to hire his buddy, who has ticket issues and a felony to work with him. (Can't be bonded)

His way of thinking is, once he finds an investor, he will take care of those things with the investment money.
How many people do you think are chomping at the bit to invest in him ? None. Would you?

When you ask people to invest...a small percentage of what you are asking them to invest in is the idea, the larger percentage of what they are investing in is you. If all they see is you sitting back waiting for someone to invest their money, you will never get a dime from anyone unless you have discovered Cold Fusion, or can design a server that can deliver 1 million spam emails per second.

It will be an outbound call center, cold calling qualified leads, 1 in 150 calls is a deal, pitching a product...

I've thought of outsourcing but I dont like the idea of not being able to control every single little thing,. If I was to outsource, I just dont see that working.

no middleman, one call close.

I also understand building up to the "big plan" and if all else fails that IS my backup plan. I just want this now while it's hot. And If all else does fail building up to it slowly will work.

Question... I have a DBA, Is that all i need, legally to do businees?
Is a DBA and a business license the same thing?

and if I was to find an investor every dime would go into my business, not paying off my debts, thats what profits are for so if I blow my investors money on debts and flat screens the I would never be able to start my business and make profits which I'm planning on using for alot more than my debt.

Thanks for your imput, good post

[Money And Mass]

I think you should just accept the fact that you won't find anyone or any institution to lend you money. I just can't imagine the scenario where it would happen. People in far better situations are being denied credit.

Perhaps your plan for expanding this business needs to be put on hold. If you're aleady making money at it - it seems you should be able to keep moving forward - even if it's at a slower pace than you'd like.

and thats the sad truth that I'm not willing to accept.

[Harold Mansfield]

Question... I have a DBA, Is that all i need, legally to do businees?
Is a DBA and a business license the same thing?


No, a DBA just gives you the right to call your business a particular name and stops other business in the same field from being named the same thing. ("Doing Business As")

You would need a business license to operate legally, and since you are having employees and an office..you are going to need insurance, tax I.D, and you will probably want to incorporate.

[Evan]

Harold hit it on the nose -- banks will NOT loan any business money, especially a new one, without a significant capital contribution from the owners, even if you had perfect credit. This is why I recommended a site like Prosper. The only other possibility is to get a personal loan, in which case, all of the factors about you that are negative would prevent you from being able to get a loan.

Secured personal credit may be the best shot, in addition to finding a business partner. As you do have some credit, you need to use that to your advantage in the interim.

[Money And Mass]

No, a DBA just gives you the right to call your business a particular name and stops other business in the same field from being named the same thing. ("Doing Business As")

You would need a business license to operate legally, and since you are having employees and an office..you are going to need insurance, tax I.D, and you will probably want to incorporate.

I've got a tax ID

A business license is $200?

Would insurance be like business insurance?

I'm a sole prop, why should I incroporate?

[Money And Mass]

Let me rephase that,

What would be the benefit of incorporating?

[vangogh]

Right now as a sole proprietor you and your business are basically the same thing. If you incorporate the business becomes it's own entity separate from you. I think how much separation depends on the type of corporation you become. I'm not sure if that changes anything as far as being able to get funding in your case, but it would reduce your personal liability for things the corporation does.

As far as working and saving and reinvesting you're at least doing the right thing. I can understand the desire to want things to happen quicker though. Maybe as you continue and can begin to show a history of profit it'll convince someone the investment is worthwhile.

As far as finding a partner you could always place ads on things like Craig's List, though I would place too many expectation on finding someone. I do see ads like that all the time though and I suppose the worst thing that would happen is you'd have to reply to some emails that are wasting your time.

You could try looking for Angel Investors. I think they're generally looking to invest in something larger than what you're planning, but it's worth looking into.

[Harold Mansfield]

Let me rephase that,

What would be the benefit of incorporating?

VG pretty much summed it up. Think of it like this...as a sole proprietor, if one of your phone sales people sexually harasses a co-worker, or steals someones credit card information...you would be sued and your personal assets would be in jeopardy.
As a corporation, only the company gets sued. Which is also where insurance would come into play as well.

[Money And Mass]

well heres my thought, This as high risk business... there will be credit numbers flying around on daily basis, so to become incorporated...

I'm already planning on getting another DBA underanother business name when I get my business license ( now that I know I need to have one ) so is being incorporated just meaning that when I get my DBA I just get it as an LLC? If no what steps do I need to take to be incorporated> I def wana do that.

This is the part that is a grey area to me, ya know all the legal stuff, thanks for all of yalls advice and input.

[Money And Mass]

also what other differences is there to me between being a sole prop or corp?

[Money And Mass]

Looking into business licenses... there is alot of different kinds what kind should I get?

federal level, state level, conty level, local level...

For now I'm only marketing inside the state of texas so I dont think I would need "federal level" or would I still?... In the future I would like to market to states within the continental US so is that what the federal level is for?

on the stae level there is,
business license,
texas misc permit,
sales tax registration, ( I dont charge a sales tax and neither does my competitor*)
withholding and tax registration ( I guess i would need that to hire people )

I think that my competitor claims to be non-profit...

What do yall think about that?

[Money And Mass]

I found the phone number for the Texas dept of licensing and regulation, I'll give them a call, once they open it's still early...

[Money And Mass]

also what other differences is there to me between being a sole prop or corp?

but I'd still like to har yalls opinions on this. Thanks

[Business Attorney]

but I'd still like to har yalls opinions on this. Thanks


There are lots of differences between a sole proprietorship and a corporation, both tax and legal. Some people also believe that there are advantages from a marketing standpoint of one form of entity over another.

The primary reason most people choose to incorporate (or to form a limited liability company) is to shield personal assets from liabilities of the business. A sole proprietor is responsible for ALL of the debts and obligations of the business. A shareholder of a corporation or a member of a limited liability company generally does not become liable for the business debts simply due to his status as a shareholder or member.

The shield from liabilities of the business is not perfect, however. That is particularly true in a small business where the shareholder or member serves a number of roles. For more information, you can read my article on my website "How Limited is Limited Liability? (http://www.limitedliabilitycompanycenter.com/how_limited_is_limited_liability.html)"

[Evan]

Way back in the "day", I created a post on the choices of entity here and provided an extremely brief synopsis. I try not to reinvent the wheel, so you can find out differences between all the entities by just Googling.

Also included was a survey of members of what entity they operate as... Take a look at " http://www.small-business-forum.net/legal-hr/38-legal-entity.html#post194 "

[Money And Mass]

" Legal Entity "
"How Limited is Limited Liability?"

Both are great reads, the second one has a little bit of ling I dont get.

One qustion from it though... It sound like in order to be either a LLC or a corp, requires more than one member, so if its just me can i still be a LLC/corp?

[Evan]

Corporations can have one shareholder. Most states will allow for single member LLCs, though there may be a few out there that do not allow it.

[Business Attorney]

Corporations can have one shareholder. Most states will allow for single member LLCs, though there may be a few out there that do not allow it.

All 50 states and the District of Columbia now permit single member LLCs (http://www.limitedliabilitycompanycenter.com/what_is_a_single_member_llc.html).

[Evan]

All 50 states and the District of Columbia now permit single member LLCs (http://www.limitedliabilitycompanycenter.com/what_is_a_single_member_llc.html).

That is what I assumed, but if I said that, then I'd find out that ONE state didn't and would be wrong :)

[BIZDEV]

There is one thing to be clear about when it comes to incorporating. Business Attorney alluded to it but didn't explain it fully.

The so called protection is limited. Business owners will be asked to sign off on personal guarantees at every turn. Especially brick and mortar businesses. Everyone from the landlord, vendors, lenders, merchant account companies (credit card processors), etc., will require you to sign that little piece of paper that basically renders the corporate "protection" null and void.

People have been jumping on the LLC bandwagon needlessly thinking they are now fully protecting their personal assets.

To be sure, there are still very good reasons to incorporate, but if your only reason is the protection....think again.

[Money And Mass]

There is one thing to be clear about when it comes to incorporating. Business Attorney alluded to it but didn't explain it fully.

The so called protection is limited. Business owners will be asked to sign off on personal guarantees at every turn. Especially brick and mortar businesses. Everyone from the landlord, vendors, lenders, merchant account companies (credit card processors), etc., will require you to sign that little piece of paper that basically renders the corporate "protection" null and void.

People have been jumping on the LLC bandwagon needlessly thinking they are now fully protecting their personal assets.

To be sure, there are still very good reasons to incorporate, but if your only reason is the protection....think again.


So how can I protect myself?