Hardware management

[Spider]

This isn't Website Management - but I cannot find anywhere else to put it....

Looking a little deeper into my computer's innards than I would normally, I see that it has a capacity of 55.88 GB, 37.08 GB of Free Space, giving Free Space of 66%.

This strikes me as less than desirable and I went looking through the list of programs to see what I might remove to speed things up a bit (not that things are especially slow right now, but I'm sure there is stuff there that I don't need and can be removed.)

But there is always the possibility that some essential things are given innocuous names that make then appear unneeded. So, can I remove the following?....

1. iPhone Configuration Utility -- 22.45MB
2. iTunes -- 133.00MB
3. Microsoft Money 2003 -- 140.00MB
4. Microsoft Money 2003 System Pack -- 6.00MB
5. MobileMe Control Panel -- 7.33MB
6. MSN Money Investment Toolbox -- 16.96MB
7. Safari -- 38.79MB
8. Zone Deluxe Games -- 8.69MB

Actually, I don't want to remove Safari because I use it to check my own website for compatibility. However, I have no need for the other Apple stuff on the list (iTunes and iPhone) which would give me back 150MB if I removed them, but are these necessary for Safari to run properly? I also have Quicktime, that I will retain - so, same question, will this be affected if I remove iTubes and iPhone?

Similar question - will the removal of MS Money (items 3 and 4) affect the running of any other MS program?

Does anyone know what MobileMe Control Panel is? And can I safely remove it?

Similarly, what is Zone Deluxe Games? And are they really games that can be deleted?

All told, I am looking at recouping 330MB, which seems like no small amount. But would it make any difference, and am I better off just leaving well alone. - You know - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

TIA

[Steve B]

I'm not very knowledgeable about this stuff, but I don't understand your original premise that 66% of Free Space was less than desirable.

I currently have 2% free space - which is causing me only a few minor problems (every once in a while I run low on virtual memory and I can no longer do a disc defrag). I'd be thrilled if I could get to 15 or 20% free space.

[rezzy]

1. iPhone Configuration Utility -- 22.45MB
2. iTunes -- 133.00MB
3. Microsoft Money 2003 -- 140.00MB
4. Microsoft Money 2003 System Pack -- 6.00MB
5. MobileMe Control Panel -- 7.33MB
6. MSN Money Investment Toolbox -- 16.96MB
7. Safari -- 38.79MB
8. Zone Deluxe Games -- 8.69MB

1. Do you have an iPhone this maybe a required application for it.
2. Apple likes to bundles software together, download iTunes, get Quicktime free and vice versa.A similar story for Safari, etc.
3, 4. This is one thing Ive considered, as many times updates are stacked on top of each other. Removing one could unravel the whole install.
5. Another phone app I suppose.
6. Bundled with Money.
7. Already mentioned you wanted to keep this for site checking.
8. This could be un-install without incident.

However, Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome and Safari all use the same rendering engine. And should have all websites shown the same. IE is the only browser that doesnt play fair.

[Spider]

Steve - I was under the impression that 50% free space was minimal, because applications/programs write data from one location to another, back and forth, everytime a calculation is done or a change made. Thus, every program requires at least as much working space as the amount of disc space it requires when doing nothing. But if you get along with 2% free space, I guess my understanding is a bit off!

Rezzy - 1. I have no Apple toys at all. No iPhone and no desire to play iTunes. No Apple computer.
2. I presume I get the iPhone and iTunes stuff because I have Safari and Quicktime and get Apple's frequent updates. So, can I remove the iPhone and iTune stuff each time without affecting my use of Safari and Quicktime? I guess I could just remove them and see. Apple seem keen enough for me to have their software, so getting them back won't be a problem, if I need them.
3. 4. 6. I don't use MS Money, never have. So, I'm not bothered about "unravelling the whole install." In fact, that is what I'm contemplating. I'm only concerned with deleting a file or something that some other application needs. You say you have considered removing it - why haven't you? Do you use MS Money?
5. I have a cellphone but there is no connection between it and my computer that I am aware of, and I certainly don't have them talking to one another. (I barely talk to people on it!)

[nighthawk]

Steve - I was under the impression that 50% free space was minimal, because applications/programs write data from one location to another, back and forth, everytime a calculation is done or a change made. Thus, every program requires at least as much working space as the amount of disc space it requires when doing nothing. But if you get along with 2% free space, I guess my understanding is a bit off!


your understanding is slightly off. Each application consists of two things, binary files (typically 99% of a programs size), which contain the instructions on how the program works, and data files (1%), which contain settings information and configuration.

If you change settings in a program, then the configuration files will change slightly, but we are talking about a few bytes difference, which is next to negligible on a 66gb hard disk (about 1 billionth of one percent).

The binary files of a program never change when it is run.

BTW - when you delete a program, do so via "Add / Remove Programs" rather than deleting the physical folder off the hard disk, as the application will probably store files in more than one location.

As for you're original question, you can remove all of the programs there you listed without effecting anything else, but if you use Safari you may wish to keep that one (Be careful next time it asks to update it though, because it will have itunes/quicktime set to download again by default, simply uncheck the option to install them)

[Harold Mansfield]

1. iPhone Configuration Utility -- 22.45MB
If you don't have an iPhone or iPod touch, you don't need this...and it won't mess anything up.

2. iTunes -- 133.00MB
If you don't use iTunes, you don't need it.

3. Microsoft Money 2003 -- 140.00MB

4. Microsoft Money 2003 System Pack -- 6.00MB
I've been trying to get rid of these myself and they won't delete for me, but no..they are not intricate to the Windows Operating system, they are similar to Quicken.

5. MobileMe Control Panel -- 7.33MB
This is an Apple program that links all of your devices with your computer, mainly to get all of your email no matter where you are. Unless you have a subscription (which is $99 a year) you don't need the software.

6. MSN Money Investment Toolbox -- 16.96MB
You can scrap this as well.

7. Safari -- 38.79MB

8. Zone Deluxe Games -- 8.69MB
You can scrap this as well.



The apple programs...iTunes, Moble Me, iPhone Utility, Quicktime...these will be offered automatically when you get Safari updates...you don't have to continue to install them all...just uncheck the boxes before you press the final install/update button. They will keep offering them (especially Quicktime) but you don't need them just for Safari to work.

66% of free space ain't bad...I only have 15% on my desktop. I don't think you will see any significant speed up since your hard drive is not even close to full...maybe a simple Defrag will help compress and organize the files that you already have...which would speed up your computer a little...especially if you haven't Defragged in a while.

You can run a Defrag scan from Start->All Programs->System Tools->Disk Defragmenter. Choose the drive you want to Defrag...usually it will be your "C" drive (that's the one that holds your aftermarket programs..."D" holds your operating system), and run the preliminary scan. IF you only have one drive, then that will obviously be the one to scan..it will tell you if you should Defrag the drive, and give you the option to do so.

[Spider]

Regarding disc space. I don't think what I had previously heard was about the space occupied by the program but rather the space used by the program. For example, a spreadsheet program would occupy a certain space - the binary files (which I can see would not change) - but, if one was to have many, large and complicated spreadsheets for calculating the trajectory of a moonrocket, those files would occupy more space than a mere birthday list of immediate family. Now if I want to recalculate the moonrocket trajectory, the program would have to write and re-write, from one disc location to another and back again for every step in every calculation -- this is where I heard the space requirements were extensive. I can imagine that a spreadsheet program occupies 150MB, the moonrocket trajectory application that was written using the spreadshet, might occupy 200MB and the space used in calculating and recalculating might be 400MB. This latter space would be free for other uses after the calculation was done, but if not available for USE, the program would not run, or would run slowly.

Anyway, that was the sort of explanation I was give and I fully accept that this is way outside my level of expertise.

Regarding selecting which Apple updates to take, I haven't noticed being offered those choices before. I'll watch for them, because that will be useful.

So, I think I can remove all that I wanted to. But the explanations are such that I really don't need to, after all.

For your peace of mind, Yes, if I remove them I will do so by uninstalling them through the "Add/Remove Program" app. I quite frequently defrag, usually before the scan tells me it is advisable.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[Harold Mansfield]

Regarding disc space. I don't think what I had previously heard was about the space occupied by the program but rather the space used by the program. For example, a spreadsheet program would occupy a certain space - the binary files (which I can see would not change) - but, if one was to have many, large and complicated spreadsheets for calculating the trajectory of a moonrocket, those files would occupy more space than a mere birthday list of immediate family. Now if I want to recalculate the moonrocket trajectory, the program would have to write and re-write, from one disc location to another and back again for every step in every calculation -- this is where I heard the space requirements were extensive. I can imagine that a spreadsheet program occupies 150MB, the moonrocket trajectory application that was written using the spreadshet, might occupy 200MB and the space used in calculating and recalculating might be 400MB. This latter space would be free for other uses after the calculation was done, but if not available for USE, the program would not run, or would run slowly.


What you seem to be describing is how much RAM it takes to run the programs...not how much space they take up on the hard drive.

Your hard drive holds the programs...your RAM is the engine (along with your processor) that runs them and how much or how little you have will determine how fast your computer runs.

Some programs are very RAM intensive (like Photoshop) and will slow down your computer if you don't have much RAM. And extra peripherals..such as running multiple monitors will also require a certain amount of RAM.
If you are still running say...512 MB of RAM, you will undoubtedly get slow downs in this day and age...it doesn't matter how many programs you delete.

You will have a certain number of programs running in the background just for basic operations that are going to eat into your total RAM available.

You can check and see how much RAM you have on your system by going to Start->All Programs->Accessories-> System Tools->System Information.

You can also check to see how much you are using at any given moment with your Task Manager (Control/Alt/Delete), and click on "Processes"....that is also a good way to see if your are running unnecessary programs in the background like any adware, or spyware that you may have picked up along the way. If you don't recognize the programs running, you can open a new window and just copy and search them via Google and you will find definitions and how crucial or unnecessary they are to you operations.

Adding to , or an upgrade of your existing RAM will speed up your computer significantly, and it's really easy to do.

You can go to Crucial.com (they are specialist in computer memory and RAM), and they have a scanner that will tell you not only how much more RAM your system will hold, but tell you exactly what products are compatible with your system and you can order it right there.

I don't know what system you have, but I have an old Pentium 4 Compaq that came with 512MB of RAM(Top of the line back then) , but has 3 more slots to add more...so I added another 2G of RAM, upping it to 2.5G's...it's like a whole new computer....I can still add another Gig later on.

[Spider]

Ah! That makes sense, Harold.

My System Info says:
Total Physical Memory ........ 512.00MB
Available Physical Memory ... 204.42MB
Total Virtual Memory .......... 2.0GB
Available Virtual Memory ..... 1.96GB
Processor ... x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~2660 Mhz
(A label on the outside of the case says, Intel Pentium 4)
It's a HP Pavilion zd7000

So, I guess, I only have 512 MB of RAM. Does that virtual memory help me though?


When I opened my TaskMaster, I saw 52 processes running almost all of them I did not recognize! I spotted a couple that looked like Apple processes. I shall look into those processes and see what's what. Thanks.

[Harold Mansfield]

Ah! That makes sense, Harold.

My System Info says:
Total Physical Memory ........ 512.00MB
Available Physical Memory ... 204.42MB
Total Virtual Memory .......... 2.0GB
Available Virtual Memory ..... 1.96GB
Processor ... x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~2660 Mhz
(A label on the outside of the case says, Intel Pentium 4)
It's a HP Pavilion zd7000

So, I guess, I only have 512 MB of RAM. Does that virtual memory help me though?


When I opened my TaskMaster, I saw 52 processes running almost all of them I did not recognize! I spotted a couple that looked like Apple processes. I shall look into those processes and see what's what. Thanks.

Be careful with deleting any processes that you don't know...many of them are necessary and will upset other functions...make sure that you are sure that you don't need them. Most systems will give you a warning if you are attempting to delete something that it needs to operate efficiently. Most of what is running is necessary, although sometimes there will be residual things left over from programs that you have deleted or things running that you have set to start or run automatically at start up when you installed them, but don't use often.
If you see any of those, you can simply go to that programs options and change it so that it doesn't start up with your computer. A good example of that is "messengers" (Yahoo, MSN, and so on) they usually always try and start with the computer unless you choose otherwise...most people don't need those on all the time and stopping them from starting at "start up" will free up some available RAM.

This Wiki has a good explanation of "Virtual memory". I don't even know if it's possible to expand that..if so I don't know how to do it...I usually just update the RAM. Virtual memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_memory)

The only way to know if you can add more RAM (ie: another card) is to either read the system specs that came with your model (or you can easily find it online), open up the case and see if there are any expansion slots, or run the scan at Crucial.

Even if you can't add extra cards (don't have any expansion slots) you should be able to still upgrade the RAM that you have by replacing it with a larger card.

[orion_joel]

I personally think that you will notice more an improvement in system performance by upgrading your memory. Currently you have 512MB adding an additional 512MB to give you 1024, will improve your performance, how much that is not something that i could guess at, as it is different on most peoples computers.

From your previous description of the trajectory spreadsheet. The spreadsheet would be loaded most likely into memory (or RAM) if for example in your case where you have 204.42mb available physical memory opening a 200mb spreadsheet would pretty much use it all up. What happens when is the system will move files it is not immediately using from the RAM into virtual memory which is a file on the hard drive. As you can imagine this would take processing power, and will slow the computer down.

On a side note a 200mb spreadsheet file would probably cripple just about any computer. At work we have a spreadsheet we use daily which is about 9mb and the time it takes to recalculate formulas when needed is about 30 second delay, and saving it takes about a minute. 200mb file is possible just depends how often it recalculates and saves.

[dynocat]

5. MobileMe Control Panel -- 7.33MB
This is an Apple program that links all of your devices with your computer, mainly to get all of your email no matter where you are. Unless you have a subscription (which is $99 a year) you don't need to software.

Thanks for this question and answer. I'm removing mine now.

[Spider]

Actually, Joel, I was just picking numbers out of the air for explanation purposes. I rather expected someone to suggest that trying to put a rocket on the moon using a common spreadsheet was a bit stupid, anyway! But I get your point, and thank you - it explained another bit of the workings of the magic boxes we take so much for granted

[Harold Mansfield]

Actually, Joel, I was just picking numbers out of the air for explanation purposes. I rather expected someone to suggest that trying to put a rocket on the moon using a common spreadsheet was a bit stupid, anyway! But I get your point, and thank you - it explained another bit of the workings of the magic boxes we take so much for granted

Funny that you used that as an example....you actually have more computing power in your PC today, than they had on the ship that went to the moon.
Kind of amazing when you think about it.

[vangogh]

Frederick with all the process running you do need to be careful since some are necessary to run your computer. You can turn off some processes that start by default though.

Go to your Start menu and the choose Run. Type msconfig. A window should open with several tabs. One of those tabs will be for Startup and you'll see a list of all the processes that start automatically when you start your computer.

Some will be obvious as to what programs they're for. You can drag the columns a bit to see the location of the file they point to. Many of the startup processes don't need to run at startup. For example I think MSN Messenger is one program that sets itself to run at startup. If you happen to use it all the time then maybe you want it running. Odds are you'll be perfectly happy to have it only run when you choose to open it.

You can uncheck the box for any process you don't want to run at startup. That doesn't delete them, just keeps them from running until you open the program that needs them. Many of the processes listed won't mean anything. What I do is type the process of filename into a search engine to see what it is. If you discover it's something you don't need at startup you can uncheck it. If you're unsure it's best to let it run.

You'll need to restart your computer for the changes to take effect. When you do a window will open telling you that changes have been made to the startup process or msconfig (I forget exactly what that window looks like). Choose the appropriate option and you should be good to go. You can always go back into msconfig and check any process you had unchecked if you change your mind and want them to run at startup.

Often if you prevent unnecessary processes from running at startup it helps speed things up. Ultimately your computer can only run as fast as it can run. 512MB is no longer a lot of RAM. Windows alone likely needs all of that. I current have 2 GB of Ram on my laptop and I find that slow. Next laptop I buy will probably come with 8 GB of Ram with an ability to expand to 16 Gb or 32 GB.

[Spider]

That seems like a nice, simple step-by-step approach, VG. Thanks.

I'm sure it will be good for my wife's machine, too - I'm afraid to think what she has on her startup menu!


ADDED: - there are 32 little programs on my Startup list! All waiting for me to do something! Now to discover which I can de-select.

[vangogh]

It can definitely help to clean out some of those process. Lot's of programs install themselves as a start up process so they can appear to load faster when you need them. But all of them start to slow things down quickly.

Just remember if you're unsure what a process is doing leave it running. You can always go back later and see if you can find more information about it.

[Steve B]

Steve that was a great set of instructions to clean up the start up files. I printed them off and went to do it. I found 29 of them running at start-up. The problem is I can't recognize what the vast majority of them are - so, I need to leave them running until I decide to research them.

What would happen if I deselected them all? I thought it might be easier to add them as I find they are needed. I have a feeling this won't work for some reason however.

[Harold Mansfield]

Steve that was a great set of instructions to clean up the start up files. I printed them off and went to do it. I found 29 of them running at start-up. The problem is I can't recognize what the vast majority of them are - so, I need to leave them running until I decide to research them.

What would happen if I deselected them all? I thought it might be easier to add them as I find they are needed. I have a feeling this won't work for some reason however.
Stopping programs from starting up with your computer is not the same as stopping processes that run in the background as part of the operating system.

Usually things that run on start up are aftermarket installations that you have purchased or downloaded after you have the computer..Spyware scanners, Messengers, Toolbars, Music players and programs, P2P programs, Email client, and things like that. The biggest offenders are Quicktime, MSN and Yahoo Messenger, iTunes, Outlook, and anything having to do with AOL.
You won't mess anything up by stopping those from starting with your computer.

If you don't recognize things on your start up menu...search it out..go to Start->Search, and search for the files..it may jog your memory of when you installed it or what it is.

You will normally get an alert if you are unchecking something that is needed and Windows normally tells you why you need it and asks if you are sure.

[vangogh]

A few of the things in the startup list are needed by the operating system to run. I don't think you can deselect all of them.

All I ever do or did was grab the filename, copy it, and paste it directly into Google. Almost 100% of the time the top few results let you know what the file was and if it was necessary.

And again turning them off at startup doesn't get rid of them. It just keeps the process from running until you tell it to run by opening the program that needs it.

[billbenson]

Generally you can google the program in that startup list and see what programs they relate to. You can also get at that by cnt alt del and select processes.

There are some tool programs out there that help manage your startup menu and other things. When I was using windows I used "System Mechanic" It was simple and worked well. I'm not sure what program to recommend to you today. Might be some good free utilities?

[Steve B]

I find a nice utility that shows you the detail of your start up files.

WhatInStartup - Disable/delete programs at Windows startup (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/what_run_in_startup.html)

Unfortunately, it didn't help me any because I still can't tell what is needed or not. But, I'm thinking some of you techie guys will appreciate it.

[vangogh]

Looks like the utility adds a couple of features on top of what msconfig gives you. Unfortunately it doesn't tell you which process does what, but I doubt there's a program out there to do that.

You'd be amazed at what you'll find by simply searching the file name that's running.

[Spider]

Another question - is .htaccess a file that must exist and if so is it possible that it is hidden?

When I open my server location by FTP to view my website files there is no .htaccess file showing. If it is there but hidden, how can I see it and open it to view the contents. I am concerned that if there is already an .htaccess file and it contains stuff, when I upload my new .htaccess file it will overwrite the old one and delete the old contents, which I might want to keep.

IOW, I'm thinking I want to ADD the new code we have been discussing in this thread to whatever is there, rather than DELETE what is already there and REPLACE it with this new code.

[Harold Mansfield]

I don't know how your FTP client is set up, but it's usually in Tools->Options, and somewhere in there, there should be a check box or something to "Show hidden files".

[vangogh]

What eborg said. It doesn't have to be there, but usually there is one by default if your server is running Apache.

There might be a view menu option too with view hidden files on it. It should be under one of the menus or if not then in the preferences or settings for the FTP client.

[billbenson]

If you are still not sure if its there, create a file called .htaccess1 (or whatever). FTP it to you site, then try to change the name to .htaccess. If its there you will get a file already exists error.

[Spider]

I guess I'm stymied. I have looked all over my FTP app for Tools>Options and there is no such. I found an Options button but led to no 'show hidden files' option.

I thought I'd try the suggestion to upload .htaccess1 and change the name, trying to prompt a 'change name error' but that won't work. As a test, I changed the name of an existing .gif file on the remote location to the name of another file that already existed and the first file disappeared (because I had changed its name) and it overwrote the second file without an error being generated.

So, I cannot know if an .htaccess file already exists and what its contents might be. Uploading a new one without that knowledge sounds awfully risky as I will not be able to return to the original .htaccess, if needed.

The FTP uploader program I use is WS-FTP95

[Harold Mansfield]

I guess I'm stymied. I have looked all over my FTP app for Tools>Options and there is no such. I found an Options button but led to no 'show hidden files' option.

I thought I'd try the suggestion to upload .htaccess1 and change the name, trying to prompt a 'change name error' but that won't work. As a test, I changed the name of an existing .gif file on the remote location to the name of another file that already existed and the first file disappeared (because I had changed its name) and it overwrote the second file without an error being generated.

So, I cannot know if an .htaccess file already exists and what its contents might be. Uploading a new one without that knowledge sounds awfully risky as I will not be able to return to the original .htaccess, if needed.

The FTP uploader program I use is WS-FTP95
There should be some way via your FTP to see any possible hidden files. Maybe it's under "Advanced" options, or maybe you can find something in the "Help" options or a list of F.A.Q's in the support pages.

I say this with caution, but ...if I uploaded another file, or changed the name of a file to .htaccess and didn't get any messages, or errors that a file of the same name existed, I would probably assume that no such file existed and go ahead and make one.

I feel uneasy giving this as advice just because I would take that risk upon myself.
If that makes you feel uncomfortable, you can always call your host and just tell them what you are trying to do..if there are any hidden files on that root, they will be able to see them and let you know what exists.

[billbenson]

As a test, I changed the name of an existing .gif file on the remote location to the name of another file that already existed and the first file disappeared (because I had changed its name) and it overwrote the second file without an error being generated.


That's really strange Frederick. From windows to web hosts I've never seen renaming a file to an existing file name overwrite the existing file.

Try downloading Filezilla and trying it. Its free and a lot of people use it, so it will be easier to help you on this one.

[Spider]

That's really strange Frederick. From windows to web hosts I've never seen renaming a file to an existing file name overwrite the existing file.
Try downloading Filezilla and trying it. Its free and a lot of people use it, so it will be easier to help you on this one.I thought it was strange, too, Bill, but it happened. I used gif files because it was easy to see the effect instantly. Then, thinking about it further, this is not a function of the FTP app, I think. The FTP app is simply transfering files as instructed - it is the host's server software that allowed the change to occur without generating an error. And the host type is described as UNIX [standard]

[vangogh]

The only reason I could think that would happen is if you've set the program you're using to change filenames to always overwrite existing files with the same name.

[Spider]

But is it not true that that is a function of the host's server? I mean, no matter what I may or may not have instructed the FTP application to do, inadvertently or otherwise, it is the server that must generate an error if a file on the server is being overwritten - isn't it?

And I have no access to my host's server controls. Do I?

In any case, in searching what files are on my segment of the host's server, I cannot find any hidden files. Is it a fact that some hidden files must exist? - that is to say, even if they are not hidden, there are some "server" files that must be there that I did not create.

I look at the contents of my directories. Every file there, I created and uploaded. I cannot see anything I did not upload. Must there be something else for the system to run?

[vangogh]

If you set your FTP program to override the file name changes you won't see any error message. I'm not sure if the responsibility for the message is the OS or the FTP program, but the FTP program can definitely overwrite it. It's common to overwrite hundreds, even thousands of files at a time and that would be unworkable if there was a message on each one.


Is it a fact that some hidden files must exist?

No. They don't need to exist. It's possible that you didn't get an error message because there was never a file there to be overwritten.

[Spider]

In the case I mentioned, there was a file to be overwritten. I tested Bill's idea to change the name of a file to the same name as an existing file to make sure an error was generated. That way I could be sure I would not overwrite an existing hidden file by mistake. An error was not generated.

I have since found an option on the FTP app to "Prompt for overwrite of same or newer file" and it was checked. I can also confirm that the app does prompt for overwriting a newer file when I am uploading but not for same name overwrite regardless of creation date. Anyway, the test was to change the name of a file that was already uploaded to the same name of another file that was also already on the server. No error was generated in this latter case.

As it stands, I have to assume there is no hidden .htaccess files and take the chance that, if that assumption is not correct, I could overwrite an existing .htaccess file with a new one and have no way of getting the old one back if I screw things up. Therefore, the question is, how badly do I want to redirect domain to www. domain and have my own 404 error page?

Decisions, decisions, decisions!

[Harold Mansfield]

Your host would have a back up if that is the case and most can revert your site back to a previous version..say, yesterday.

If you are still unsure, you can always call them and ask if there are any hidden files that I you are not seeing, specifically your .htaccess file.

From here, it sounds as if you don't have one installed. If you installed everything on your domain, do you remember ever creating and installing one?

Your host does not always make one by default, unless they did your website or platform installation...and even still that is not a definite.

[billbenson]

Did you try Filezilla Frederick? At least we can compare what needs to be checked that way?


If you set your FTP program to override the file name changes you won't see any error message. I'm not sure if the responsibility for the message is the OS or the FTP program, but the FTP program can definitely overwrite it. It's common to overwrite hundreds, even thousands of files at a time and that would be unworkable if there was a message on each one.

VG, are you referring to renaming or uploading files here. You can definitely overwrite all files via a transfer, but I haven't seen a command or a reason for one for massive renaming? Can't say I ever looked for it though either.

[vangogh]

I can also confirm that the app does prompt for overwriting a newer file when I am uploading but not for same name overwrite regardless of creation date.

That's what I would try then. I'm not sure why Bill suggested uploading and then renaming. Try that with a file that you can see and once you know it's working you can try with the .htaccess file.

I'm surprised you were able to overwrite the file by renaming the new one without an error message. That shouldn't happen.

[Spider]

I did not try Filezilla, Bill, but thanks for the suggestion. WS-FTP works fine except for this hickup and I'm loathe to try a new program with which I would not be familiar.

Nice to know I can go back if needed, Harold. I think you're right - there probably are no hidden files. I did not create a .htaccess file and if one is not needed by default or to make the system work, as VG says, I doubt there is one there.

The only reason I could see the host installing one is that I have always set up my sites as a free site first, got it working, and then paid for bannerless hosting within a day or two to remove the advertising. Bannerless hosting is considerably cheaper than what they call Pro-hosting, which has much more capacity, more memory, more bandwidth, more e-maill addresses and more built-in goodies than I'll ever need. I'm thinking that the cheaper bannerless hosting might have some restrictors in a file like .htaccess. But I'm only guessing.

Your last suggestion won't work, VG, because, if there is an .htaccess file, it cannot be newer than anything I create now, and an error is generated only if the file I'm overwriting is newer than the one I'm trying to upload.

Anyway, after all this, and with your excellent and much appreciated guidance, everyone, I feel confident that no .htaccess file exists and I will have a go at creating and uploading one tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help. If you don't hear from me, I exploded something and have been banned from the internet altogether!

[Harold Mansfield]

The only reason I could see the host installing one is that I have always set up my sites as a free site first, got it working, and then paid for bannerless hosting within a day or two to remove the advertising. Bannerless hosting is considerably cheaper than what they call Pro-hosting, which has much more capacity, more memory, more bandwidth, more e-maill addresses and more built-in goodies than I'll ever need. I'm thinking that the cheaper bannerless hosting might have some restrictors in a file like .htaccess. But I'm only guessing.



That's a whole 'nother situation all together. If you are using some kind of site builder or free hosting platform (at least in the beginning) it stands to reason that it is possible that they have files installed on each root by default to limit the service or access, since free site hosting has limitations.

I don't know how everyones hosting works, but on my account..the only thing on my root from scratch are a placeholder index.php file (that shows a basic 'site coming soon' and hosting company logo and promotions), and a stats package.
There is no .htaccess file. So none exists unless I put it on there.

You could always have one of us check via our FTP to see if we can see your hidden files (if you have any).

[billbenson]

Frederick, if you are using a host that offers free sites for your hosting, you might want to rethink that. Google knows who the free sites are and its very difficult to get indexed on a free site. I would think that a pay site on the free site server would be more difficult to index as well. See if VG has anything to say on that. I have a host that charges $1.75 per month for a basic site, so money really shouldn't be an issue.

[Spider]

That's a whole 'nother situation all together. If you are using some kind of site builder or free hosting platform (at least in the beginning) it stands to reason that it is possible that they have files installed on each root by default to limit the service or access, since free site hosting has limitations...I didn't use (and I don't think they offer) a "site builder." Not sure what a "free hosting platform" might comprise. I write all my code - basic html - in Notepad, and change the .txt to .html before FTP upload. What I create replaces the host's 'under construction' page which I would have thought was dynamically generated rather than a fixed page from my root.

[Spider]

Bill, money is not an issue, and I have always had excellent service from Directnic, both problem resolution and up-time consistency. Plus I have never found a problem with Google indexing my sites including the inner pages.

Not that I have gone looking, I have never noticed a host that doesn't offer free sites in addition to their paid hosting. I would think this is standard advertising/promotion for any hosting company, isn't it?

[Harold Mansfield]

Not that I have gone looking, I have never noticed a host that doesn't offer free sites in addition to their paid hosting. I would think this is standard advertising/promotion for any hosting company, isn't it?

Not always. My host doesn't offer any type of free hosting options, trial offers or anything of the sort.

From everything I have heard, it doesn't seem like you have an .htaccess file uploaded on your root.
The fact that you have named, a file .htaccess and it was still visible and didn't prompt an error message of duplicate file names means to me that there isn't one there that is hidden.

[billbenson]

I think its the other way around, Spider. Most good hosts I've seen don't offer free sites. Thats a completely different market than normal hosting.

[Spider]

I've just made another weird observation. When you enter a url to a non-existent page, this prompts a 404 error - right? And, if there is no .htaccess file, the stock 404 error page will appear in the requesting browser window - right? (By 'stock' I suppose I mean the 404 error page that the host has as standard across the host's server.)

When I enter a url for a non-existent page on my site, it reverts to the index page. Try this non-existent page - http://frederickpearce.com/nopage.html -- See? You get the index (home) page.

Does this suggest that I DO have a hidden .htaccess file, or could something else be making that happen?

[TulsaWeb]

Hi Spider,

404 errors can be handled a bunch of different ways. It could be configured to return to the front page on your server. I know on godaddy.com accounts, if there isn't a specified 404 page, you get a 404 page, but it's covered with godaddy.com ads!

[vangogh]

.htaccess can do a lot of things, but it's often only one of several ways to do those things. Your host possibly has things set for 404 errors to redirect to the home page. It is possible it's been set up in an .htaccess file, but odds are you would have discovered that file by now if it were present.

[Spider]

Ok. I went ahead and did it.

A brief check shows the site seeming to work normally, and a 404 error is not pulling up the 404 page I created and still reverts to the index page.

This is the code in the new .htaccess file---


ErrorDocument 404 /404.html

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^frederickpearce.com [NC]
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.frederickpearce.com/$1 [L,R=301]

Is there any way I can check to see if the 'Rewrite' segment is working?

[vangogh]

The rewrite isn't working. I can still access your site as www or non www. With the rewrite code you should only see the www version.

Try placing the 404 code after the rewrite code or even removing the 404 code temporarily. You'll know the rewrite is working if you go to domain.com and you get redirected to www.domain.com

It's also possible your host doesn't have the redirect module of Apache on for your site. You can check by creating a php file in your root folder. Call it something like info.php and just add this code


<?php phpinfo(): ?>

That's the only line of code the file needs. Then in your browser visit domain.com/info.php and you should see a page showing you all sorts of info about how php,mysql, and some other things have been set up for your site. Try searching for mod_rewrite (I think that's what it's called) to see if it's turned on.

[Spider]

Aw Fooey! I tried the 404 code alone and I tried the rewrite code alone and it made no difference in either case.

Interestingly, it didn't matter if I used one, two, three or four w's or none, it still functioned as if all were acceptable.

I shall leave well alone. It works fine as it is. The rewrite would have been good but the 404 thing was just a nicety. Thank you all for your efforts. I hope I haven't wasted too much of your time.

[vangogh]

Did you check to see if mod_rewrite is installed. It's possible you can't use an .htaccess file with your hosting.

One thing to keep in mind before giving up is that search engines see domain.com and www.domain.com as two completely separate URLs. So where you think there's one page to rank, search engines will see two pages competing against each other. You see two links pointing to a single page. They see one link pointing to each of two pages.

If you have a Google Webmaster Tools account you can let Google know that you prefer to use either www or non www. I don't think the other engines let you do that yet, though they might. Better to use .htaccess if you can to cover them all.

[Spider]

I did not check to see if mod_rewrite is installed. Judging from what you said, VG, it would have been for information only - it didn't sound as if I could change the setting. I'm accepting that I can't use an .htaccess file with my hosting.

I'm aware the SEs see two pages and that was why I was interested in the Rewrite code, but I do not see it as critical. I am beginning to rank quite well in the serps for most of my important keywords. Plus, my PR-5 (of great significance or not) isn't bad, so things are okay, as they stand.

There's always room for improvement, of course, and I'll persue easier ways to take over the world of business coaching.

[billbenson]

I'd suggest you go ahead and make that info file. Three lines in a file editor and upload. It will give you a lot of information you may want to refer to at times. Stick it in your favorites.

You said you were using a host that offers free hosting. It is very possible that they are invoking limitations on your account that regular hosts don't. Even probable. This could be an example of why not to use a hosting service that offers free hosting. You can do a lot with htaccess.

BTW, on hosting, some of the largests hosts play games as well. For example don't use Network Solutions or 1 and 1. They used to play the domain stealing game and other scams. Not sure what they currently do. Do some research or get references when selecting a host.