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jamestl2
12-16-2009, 04:06 PM
Well I completed my new site and basically revamped the business's design. The content and overall layout is all there, but the one aspect that still doesn't quite satisfy my look is the index page.

Even with my old site, I wasn't completely happy with my homepage layout (it was bland), and it didn't have to much.

I already have a brief description of what I do and what I offer to people, but I'm not sure if that's enough. So, along with a welcome layout, what info would you recommend to have enough of on a business site's homepage?

Spider
12-16-2009, 08:14 PM
So, if I came to EngiPress, who am I? (or what am I?) and what would I be looking for?

jamestl2
12-16-2009, 08:43 PM
Well you, ideally, would be a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code very well and would like to have your theme modified to your likings.

You'd come here to basically do one of three things (or more):

Find one who can do the customization work you require (AKA look into hiring me and discuss what HTML / CSS work needs to be done).
Read Wordpress Posts (I'll write a few blog entries here and there about bits and bobs I find / discover about Wordpress).
Possibly participate in Forum Discussion about WP. (If I can get my forum off the ground, that's something I'll be working on for awhile.)

Business Attorney
12-16-2009, 09:50 PM
If you ask me (and you did!), I think your home page doesn't do what you want it to do. Unless you are truly altruistic, the goal of the website is not to provide a forum to find answers or to read posts about Wordpress. It's not even to "Find one who can do the customization work you require" or to "look into hiring" you.

Assuming the person who reaches your website has a need that you can fill, your goal is to convince that person to hire you. The forums and the blog posts are simply ways to get them to your page or to keep them coming back so that they think of you when they have the need that you can fill.

I think your home page tells too much about what is in the site (the forums and the blogs) and basically nothing about why they should hire you.

A couple of other points:

"Welcome" is not an appropriate name for your page title. Besides having zero SEO value, when someone automatically bookmarks your page, your site will be listed as "Welcome". At least put Engipress in the title, and probably more, like "Engipress - We Fix your Wordpress Themes."

"Hire" is not a good name for the link to learning more about your services. By clicking on the icon, they are not hiring you. Call it "our services," "what we do," "why use us" or something that describes what the user will find when he/she clicks.

Put your services first, both in the text and in the header links.

Just my two cents worth...

jamestl2
12-16-2009, 10:09 PM
I do realize that the home page is primarily marketing-heavy. And that's what I'm concerned about, persuading people that I'm the right guy for the work.

For now, I just placed a basic description of the different sections of my site on the homepage, which I tried to convey as what people would find here at my site, kind of like a descriptive sitemap (which, as you put it, isn't exactly what I want).

So I suppose I'm looking for tips or samples of stuff I could say here. What's a good way to introduce potential clients to my offers and experiences?


And good point about the page titles too, I just used WP defaults, I'll change those.

Also, about my hire page, I suppose I already go into details about what I do on the page, but don't know if I should "offer services" as all my clients' needs will be different.

Patrysha
12-16-2009, 10:32 PM
What kind of clients do you want? Start with that and sort of reverse engineer it - if you know what type of clients you want then what are they looking for? What are their needs that you can fulfill? Once you figure that out then you can tell them.

Need advice - over here
Need a quick fix - over here
Need a template - over here

And I think with what you do have to offer, you are going to have to work hard to differentiate yourself...what can you do for me (assuming I was an ideal customer) that is different from all the other WordPress designers I know and network with? What makes you stand out enough that you are going to stick in their head so that you are the first person that comes to mind when a person thinks Wordpress wizard?

I know a few that I think of off the top of my head and I would recommend them based on their differences rather than their similarities. I recommend one to moms with certain home based businesses, another to craft based home businesses, another for more stuffy corporate type stuff (for anyone who wants more than tweaks only type work done)...

So who would I refer to you and why?

Spider
12-16-2009, 11:28 PM
So, if I came to EngiPress, who am I? (or what am I?) and what would I be looking for?

Well you, ideally, would be a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code very well and would like to have your theme modified to your likings.
You'd come here to basically do one of three things (or more):
Find one who can do the customization work you require (AKA look into hiring me and discuss what HTML / CSS work needs to be done).
Read Wordpress Posts (I'll write a few blog entries here and there about bits and bobs I find / discover about Wordpress).
Possibly participate in Forum Discussion about WP. (If I can get my forum off the ground, that's something I'll be working on for awhile.)Here I am - a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code very well and I want my theme modified. What question would I be asking? What is frustrating me?

If you were a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code, James, and you wanted your theme modified, what is the first question you would ask?

Harold Mansfield
12-17-2009, 12:13 AM
I do wordpress work myself and have 2 sites promoting such and working on a 3rd.

It seems that you are having problems with the identity of what you are and what you want to do.
Do you want to have a forum and resource for people who use Wordpress, or are you trying to attract people to hire you to do Wordpress work, support and build WP based websites ?

vangogh
12-17-2009, 11:59 AM
James you already have plenty of good advice above. I'll see if I can offer a little more.

It's been mentioned above, but I think one of the first things you need to do is decide who your site is really for. People looking to hire you are going to be different from people looking for advice on how to work on WordPress on their own. You can serve both groups, but know they're different. You should also choose one as the primary focus for the site.

To me the purpose of a home page is let people know quickly what the site is about so they can decide if they're in the right place and then get them where they want to go deeper into the site as quickly as possible.

Take the two different groups of people I mentioned above. Assume both land on the home page. Each wants to go to a different place. Help them fid those different places as quickly as possible. See Patrysha's three bullet points above. Let people see those questions (Need advice?, Need a quick fix?, need a theme?) as soon as possible. Make them obvious. Use a different color for those words, make them bigger, etc. That way the person who's looking for a theme can find a theme right away.

Add a tagline below your logo that specifically uses the word WordPress. That's the word that ties everything together. Let people see it right away. Even if they land on a different page of the site make it clear that the site is about WordPress.

jamestl2
12-17-2009, 04:24 PM
Ideally, I'd like it to eventually grow into a WP community where people can find useful WP resources and discus different WP topics, however for the time being since I'm just launching the site, and if I had to choose just one for now, I'm using it for my business purposes and modify people's themes to their likings.

Patrysha, in your list, that's essentially what I'm doing on my homepage already.

Looking for WP resources? See the blog (link)
Need a WP theme fixed? Hire Engipress (link)
Want WP advice? Register with the forums (link)


I already know what I do (WP XHTML and CSS Modifications for potential clients), but I don't know if I'm conveying the message in the right way. All that's there is just a sentence or two and a link to the appropriate page.

Do I have all the information I need (where this is mostly a design issue) or should I try expand upon my brief descriptions of what the site offers (And flesh the content out more)? (Or is it both?)

If I don't know a thing about coding, I figure I'd want to hire someone to do the coding to my site, so I'd check out the hire page and see what he offers. So I suppose it's clear to me what I do and offer, but that may be because I created the business and designed the site. I try and put myself in clients' shoes, but all their shoes will be different, because everyone's site modifications will be different, and I may or may not be able to meet their needs.

Basically, should the homepage be used more for site structure and information, or persuasion?

Plus, I'll fix the design of the homepage once I figure out just what it is I want to say, and how I want to organize that info.

Spider
12-17-2009, 05:01 PM
James, I asked the questions I asked because I don't think your home page has put yourself in your prospects' shoes.

Again, here I am - a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code very well and I want my theme modified. What question would I be asking? What is frustrating me?

If you were a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code, and you wanted your theme modified, what is the first question you would ask?

Put it in the words your prospect would use.

vangogh
12-18-2009, 01:37 AM
James I think you have attempted to let people know what's on the site. I'm not sure it works quite the way you want though.

You said if you had to choose one it would be the services. In that case make that section the most obvious. Whatever you would consider the secondary goal make that the next most obvious and so on. The way the design is now none of the sections stands out because they all look the same. Make at least the services section different. Give it a different background color or try a different font. Something that contrasts with everything else. That way people will notice it.

At the moment you don't have themes. I think I would leave that section out for now. When they're ready add the section and make an announcement about their arrival. As it is now if I visit the site a few times and keep seeing that the themes will be here soon I'll get the feeling they aren't coming.

With the copy you have the first section titled About, but it links to the blog. Call it blog then. If I see the word about I assume it means your About page.

To expand a little on what Frederick is saying who do you see as you market? Not simply people looking for. Who are they? You mentioned this:


Well you, ideally, would be a Wordpress user that doesn't understand code very well and would like to have your theme modified to your likings.

That's a start. So this is a person who's already sold on using WordPress, but doesn't want to or know how to modify the code. What else can you say about that person? What kind of business might they have? How many employees? What other things are they concerned about? How old or young are they? Are they more likely to sell products or services? Do they even sell anything?

The more you can learn or decide about who your ideal client is going to be the better. Ideally the information would come from existing clients since they've shown they'll buy from you, but I think you can sometimes make some of these decisions yourself about who you want your ideal client to be in order to attract that type of client.

Again thinking of what Frederick said. What would your ideal client want to know about you in order to hire you to work on your site? One obvious thing is that you work with WordPress. I see you've added a tagline. I think I might go with WordPress instead of WP in the tagline. People like you and I who work with WordPress all the time immediately think WordPress when we see WP. The average person looking to hire you might not. Use WP when you're talking to other wp developers. Use WordPress when you're talking someone who wants to hire you to work on their WordPress blog.


should the homepage be used more for site structure and information, or persuasion?

I think both, but around the same goal which is to get people deeper into the site. You can persuade someone to take action on your home page. Assuming it's the first page they're seeing it's not likely you can persuade them to buy from the home page. Persuade them to dig deeper into to the site.

Once again back to Frederick's point. If I'm looking to hire someone to customize my theme I want to know more about that person. So where's your about page. Why not give me a short bio, a sentence about who you are on the home page with a link to a full About page.

I also want to see a portfolio. I realize you need to have the jobs in order for there to be a portfolio so why not do a couple or three free sites. Think of it as a marketing expense. Start designing themes. Even if you don't have them coded you can show the design.

Why no Contact page or contact information on every page. Don't hide that. Make it easy for people to contact you. Later when you have so many clients you don't what to do with them all you can hide your contact info a little. Right now you want everyone who's interested to contact you so make it easy for them.

Spider
12-18-2009, 09:19 AM
VG has expanded greatly on what I am getting at, James, but even VG has missed, what to me is, the main point at this stage. You both are "engineers" in Wordpress. You know this stuff, and you seem to be thinking as engineers about the prospect. I think you need to, somehow, drop the engineer and become the prospect.

Eg. You both talk about "modifying a theme." The prospect I am thinking of doesn't talk like that. Now, you may be hoping to work for people who do talk like that, but I am supposing much more of a beginner being your prospect. (Which brings up the point, Decide who is your client going to be.)

The prospect I thought you wanted to attract is someone who has a WP site and wants it to look different but doesn't know how to change it - needs to "modify the theme" - right? He is a small business owner who hired someone to make a website for him and that someone created a site in Wordpress. Now that designer isn't anymore (moved, quit the business, got a job, ???). The small business owner is stuck.

That prospect is not going to look for someone "to modify his theme." He is looking for someone to "fix his site," or "make it look nicer," or "make it work better."

So, the question he will be asking is "Can you fix my site?" Or, more specifically, "I don't like the layout of my site, and the colors don't seem right - Can you change these things without changing the words and photographs?"

Now, you might be anticipating a different prospect than that - that's what I was trying to get you to determine. Because until you identify your typical (or perfect) client, you cannot figure what he will be asking for, and then, how you will explain to him how you can help. You can explain to VG what you do but the words you use with VG will not encourage the prospect I have described to hire you - because he won't understand you.

So, who is your perfect client? What is frustrating him right now? What question is he asking? And, what words can you use to answer that question to HIS satisfaction?

That's what's missing from your front page at this time.

vangogh
12-18-2009, 11:47 AM
That prospect is not going to look for someone "to modify his theme." He is looking for someone to "fix his site," or "make it look nicer," or "make it work better."

Great point. I tried to allude to it when talking about WP vs WordPress, but you did me one better.

James you and I will talk about WordPress in a different way than your clients. You have to speak their language and not ours. You have to think about the words your clients will use to ask questions and respond to them with those words in your answers.

KristineS
12-18-2009, 12:47 PM
James, I'm probably precisely the sort of client for which you're looking. I have, at last count, 4 Wordpress blogs. I know the basics of how to make them work, but anything more complicated means I'm going to look for someone else to do the work. My someone happens to be Vangogh, who has saved my bacon more than once when I blew something up. If I hadn't already known him, I would have been looking for someone who could do what I wanted to be done.

If I approach your front page from that perspective, the idea that there's no Vangogh and my skill level is minimal, basically there's nothing there that would convince me that you're who I'd want to hire.

Your about section links to a blog, which tells me nothing about you. Blogs are useful and can definitely be handy in establishing expertise, but they're not a biography or a CV. The About section should tell me what your skills and expertise are and why I'd want to work with you.

Your services section lists reasons why you should be hired, which to me belong more in the About section. You don't really list any of the services you offer or the things for which people might hire you, and you push the forum, which has absolutely nothing to do with someone hiring you.

So far, I've been through two sections and I know almost nothing about you or what you do. I don't care about the Forum since I just want someone to make my Wordpress work, I don't feel any need to discuss it since I don't want to do the work myself. Because of that, the forum means nothing to me.

That's pretty much three strikes you're out. You haven't given me a valid reason to consider you, and more to the point, you haven't shown me a valid reason to consider you. You don't have any examples of themes you've designed, so I can't see your work. You don't tell me much about yourself so I can't get a feel for who you are and if I think I could work with you. You don't really list what you can do for me, so I don't really know if you even would want to do the work I need. While it is true I could find most of that stuff out if I contacted you, my time is valuable and I've already spent some looking at your site. If you can't convince me, at least partially, that you can provide the services I need, I'm not going to waste more time.

I apologize if this sounds blunt, but I'd rather be a bit blunt now than have you coming back in three months asking why your site isn't generating any business.

jamestl2
12-18-2009, 09:20 PM
I know my homepage needs tuning, that's why I started the topic. Meaning that I know it doesn't say a whole lot ATM, and it needs an overhaul, I'm just trying to figure out what to say and put on it.

When I see "My Perfect Client" (Which you summed up pretty well, Fredrick, a SB owner who hired a designer or put the site up himself, is looking to have his theme edited a bit), I don't know if I'm necessarily fixing his theme, in fact, there's probably nothing wrong with it. They'll just prefer to have a few things rearranged, a few colors swapped around, a personal logo they want in the header, etc. to make it look better for them.

About a Portfolio, I didn't have the "business" when I did my freelance work (meaning I do have some experience in which direction I'd like to take my business), and I didn't want to "display" it publicly to respect my client's privacy, and they never really agreed to any such thing when I did the work for them.

I see your point too Steve, about not having anything in the Themes page, I might replace it with a portfolio or experience section, once I sort through what to do about that too. (And I do have the majority of my contact info on my hire page, right at the top.)

Also, one of the purposes of my forums (bear in mind just one) is to communicate with me to discuss future projects. Prospective clients can use the designated forum where we can post back and forth on project progress and direction, rather than having something like 20 emails sent back and forth going over anything.

Kristine, my Hire page basically is my About section, they're the same thing (Maybe I shouldn't have labeled it "about" on the homepage.) Again though, I'm going to do a complete rework of the page, and I'll probably omit it (the "about" heading was just a placeholder for the time being).



You don't have any examples of themes you've designed, so I can't see your work.


Well, I'm not a technically a theme designer (yet), so I'm not sure they'd care too much about what I've "designed" (Although the Engipress Theme I do state I created in my footer). I'm thinking that most of my clients will already have the "design" in mind, they just need me to implement it.



You don't tell me much about yourself so I can't get a feel for who you are and if I think I could work with you.


So how much would be a good amount to say about myself? I don't believe my clients care too much about my personal life, where I grew up, favorite sports teams, etc. They just want to be sure I can get the job done.



You don't really list what you can do for me, so I don't really know if you even would want to do the work I need.


Isn't my "Hire" page for the purpose of listing my skills? I state there that I can edit the XHTML and CSS of existing themes and that I don't have a ton of expertise working with Graphic Design and Plugin Development. Or are these terms to technical for the average WP user? Just trying to get a feel for how much my potential clients understand and look for.


I have been sending out my resume recently to a few places (I've been doing some job searching, in addition to starting my business), you guys think I should use similar info on my site? (I mean stuff like where I went to school, what my degree was in, etc.)

It kind of seems that all the info that would go on the homepage, could go on some other page too (About, Hire, contact, etc.). Maybe I should just create an "About" page, and make that my homepage, I haven't quite decided yet.

Harold Mansfield
12-18-2009, 11:51 PM
I think your landing page should briefly explain what services you offer, and your "about" page should tell about your skills and education.
Another page should detail your services and then a contact page.

Keep it simple, but make sure visitors understand right away what you do and what services you offer....if you catch their attention, they will check out the rest of the site to find out more about you to determine if they want to contact you for possible work.

I would put the blog and forum in a drop down menu under the same heading if menu space is a problem, or just give them their own heading.

If your goal is to pick up work..first and foremost, then that is what you need to lead with.

JMO

vangogh
12-19-2009, 03:12 AM
I'm thinking that most of my clients will already have the "design" in mind, they just need me to implement it.

In that case your clients might be designers without WordPress development skills. Very different type of client than the average site owner. Some site owners will have a design in mind, though most won't. They might have ideas about what they'll want the site to look like, but they'll probably expect you to turn their ideas into a design.

There are plenty of people who have design skills, but lack the development skills. You might want to think about targeting designers. One positive side is the designer will then be finding clients for you. If you can hook up with a few you could have a steady stream of work. Even one would be a good client.


I don't believe my clients care too much about my personal life

I tell people that I'm a baseball fan and that I like blues and jazz. I even list some of my favorite authors. Why wouldn't clients want to know who you are personally. It helps them trust you and it helps both of you build a relationship. The more people know you the more likely they'll be to hire you.


I have been sending out my resume recently to a few places (I've been doing some job searching, in addition to starting my business), you guys think I should use similar info on my site? (I mean stuff like where I went to school, what my degree was in, etc.)

I think you can use that information. I'd probably use it on an about page. I wouldn't write it the same way you'd write a resume, but I think it's perfectly fine to tell people where you want to school and what you studied.

James take a look at my delicious profile for the search portfolios (http://delicious.com/vangogh99/portfolios). (Also take off the 's' and search portfolio) Don't necessarily think about the designs of the sites, but look through some and see what types of pages they all include and how they have their home pages. Also look at how they write the different pages. You should be able to get a lot of good ideas for your site.

Dan Furman
12-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Take a look at my homepage on my clear-writing site. That's what you, or generally any service business, needs to do. I address my visitor and quickly answer the need they came with - you can "read" or "scan" and come away with what I do. No guesswork at all involved.

Paper Shredder Clay
12-21-2009, 12:51 PM
I want to mention one thing that is a small pet peeve about your site, and I hope you don't take it personally because its a matter of personal aesthetics. The "About," "Services," "Community," and "Themes" all look like giant buttons to me. I realize you meant it to be like section headers but it reads as buttons to me, and of course you can't click on them. I wanted to bring that to your attention, because you may have viewers who will get annoyed about not being able to click on it.

Spider
12-21-2009, 02:48 PM
Here's are a few thoughts about what a site's homepage should say. Dan raised the point that a service business needs to address the visitor and quickly answer the need they came with. He says of his own site, "you can 'read' or 'scan' and come away with what I do. No guesswork at all involved."

I would like to toss in the following for James and anyone else to consider for their own homepage.

1. Not all visitors arrive on your site through the homepage. In my own case, of the last 1000 entries, 10.6% arrived at the homepage. 89.4% landed on some other page of the site.

2. For some businesses - like Dan's, for example - visitors know why they came. That isn't always the case. James' visitors might arrive because they don't like how their site looks and don't know what's wrong. If someone felt there was something wrong with their site, the chances are they would not search for a copywriter unless they thought, or suspected, that the writing was the problem and searched accordingly.

In my case, business people don't immediately think of hiring a life coach, and people considering a life coach are not going to search for a business coach. But the two are inextricably linked, if the visitor is considering improving their circumstances and work or business is part of their circumstances. So, I have to cast my net wide enough to come to the attention of a more diverse clientele.

3. While I agree that one should address the visitor and answer their need, it's not always so simple to know what their need is. Sometimes, one needs to educate the visitor that what you do is what they need. It might not be so clear to them that your service will satisfy their need without some education.

vangogh
12-21-2009, 03:44 PM
I had been planning a post on home page design for awhile now and this thread helped inspire me to write it sooner rather than later. I should have it read tomorrow and I'll post a link to it.


While I agree that one should address the visitor and answer their need, it's not always so simple to know what their need is. Sometimes, one needs to educate the visitor that what you do is what they need. It might not be so clear to them that your service will satisfy their need without some education.

True, but you're not going to do all that on your home page. Someone is going to need to read deeper into your site before they actually hire or buy from you.

A home page really has some very simple goals.

1. You need to let your visitor know what the site is about so they know if they're in the right place.

2. You need let people know where they can go next to help them find their way deeper into your site

3. You need to stay out of the way of repeat visitors and let them know what's new or what's coming to encourage them to come back again.

It's important to realize your home isn't the going to do all of the work for the entire site. It has some very specific goals the most important of which is letting visitors know the what the site is about.

Visitors always know why they came to your site. What they don't know is whether or not your site is the right site for the reason they came. In the case where someone visits James' site because they don't like how their site looks, that's why they visited. They don't like how their site looks and presumably they visited James' site in the hopes that James can give them a site who's look they'll like.

The site's job is then to convince that person that James' is the person to give them a site they'll like. The home page just needs to let them know the possibility exists that James can deliver the site they want and help them get to more information quickly.

Spider
12-21-2009, 05:56 PM
Sometimes, one needs to educate the visitor that what you do is what they need.True, but you're not going to do all that on your home page. Someone is going to need to read deeper into your site before they actually hire or buy from you.I agree, but at the very least, the home page (and perhaps every landing page) has to address the possibility that what they think they need may not be what they need and they ought to read further to find out. Don't you think?


...Visitors always know why they came to your site. What they don't know is whether or not your site is the right site for the reason they came...Well, yes - I guess I didn't word that very well.

What I'm trying to get at is, a visitor might think they need a new site design when, in fact, their home page needs to be more effectively written. They might think they need a new coffee machine whereas a new water filter may be what they need. They may think they need an accountant but what they really need is a bookkeeper.

It's all very well to say, "You need to let your visitor know what the site is about so they know if they're in the right place." That's great in most cases, but what happens in instances where they don't know what they need, or they think they need something different from what will actually solve their problem. This is the situation in which I find myself, and I don't think it can be solved by simply telling people what my site is about in the hope they think they are at the right place. The chances are they will think they are at the wrong place because they misunderstand the situation they are in.

vangogh
12-21-2009, 08:03 PM
I understand what you're saying, but I also think there's only so much you can do on your home page.


What I'm trying to get at is, a visitor might think they need a new site design when, in fact, their home page needs to be more effectively written.

That might be true, but when that person lands on your home page they're looking for a new site design. The only think that will keep them on your site is something to show them that you design websites. Otherwise they're leaving.


what happens in instances where they don't know what they need, or they think they need something different from what will actually solve their problem

Then it probably makes no difference what you say. This isn't a real prospect at least not at that moment. You can't expect that a few things on your home page are going to make them realize what they need and also realize you're the person who can deliver. If this person comes to your site looking for a new design and you don't make it obvious you can design sites the person is leaving.

If you develop a relationship with this person you can advise them about what you think they need. Until then telling them the need something else will just have them going elsewhere.


Business Mentor and Personal Life Coach

I think it's pretty clear on your site what you do.

If that's what a person arriving at your site is looking for they'll dig deeper. If they're looking for something else they're leaving. If most people who land on your site are looking for something different I'd suggest the problem is more in the kind of traffic you're getting or maybe it's that your clients are using different words to describe what they want than you are.

Your home page can only do so much. Someone comes to your site for a reason. They're looking for something and if they think that something is on your site they'll stay. If they don't think it's on your site they'll leave. If they think that what they want is on your site the next step is finding it.

Dan Furman
12-22-2009, 10:00 AM
I agree, but at the very least, the home page (and perhaps every landing page) has to address the possibility that what they think they need may not be what they need and they ought to read further to find out. Don't you think?

Well, yes - I guess I didn't word that very well.

What I'm trying to get at is, a visitor might think they need a new site design when, in fact, their home page needs to be more effectively written. They might think they need a new coffee machine whereas a new water filter may be what they need. They may think they need an accountant but what they really need is a bookkeeper.

It's all very well to say, "You need to let your visitor know what the site is about so they know if they're in the right place." That's great in most cases, but what happens in instances where they don't know what they need, or they think they need something different from what will actually solve their problem. This is the situation in which I find myself, and I don't think it can be solved by simply telling people what my site is about in the hope they think they are at the right place. The chances are they will think they are at the wrong place because they misunderstand the situation they are in.

I would say the web is different in that if people don't know why they are at your site, you did it wrong. It's just waaaaay too targeted.

Now, here's your dilemma, Spider - yes, you almost have to convince people that they need you. Because I can't think of too many keywords / PPC instances that are going to work for you. But you kind of need to do this before they get to your site (otherwise, how are they going to get there?) That means for a site/business like yours, you need to participate in forums, etc. Write articles, have a blog, etc etc.

vangogh
12-22-2009, 10:48 AM
Because I can't think of too many keywords / PPC instances that are going to work for you

I'd bet there are more keywords than you realize. They might not come to mind right away, but they do exist. The trick is in doing the research to find them.

I agree with you about getting more targeted traffic. One of the reasons I'll come down on things like traffic exchanges is because they don't deliver targeted traffic. It's like not having a sign in front of your store and hoping the random person who happens to walk in will be interested in what they find.

Spider
12-22-2009, 01:32 PM
This thread was about James' homepage, so I don't want to hijack it. Let me try to keep my reply as general as possible while following up on the comments.

I understand the argument that a visitor searches for what they want and that a website's homepage has to immediately confirm that is what it provides or the visitor leaves. I put it to you that many times - maybe even most times - people search for something they think will give them what they want, rather than searching for what they want. Especially in a service business context. IOW - James' visitors are less likely to search for "a prettier website" than for a "web designer." So, James has to immediately let the visitor know whether he is a graphic artist type designer or a software engineer processes type designer, or both.

In my case (to answer the comments) I find most people think of business coaching to be more like consulting - you've got a problem, consult someone (a coach) to solve that problem. That, to me, is not coaching - it is consulting. A football team doesn't call in a coach when they have a problem, they hire a coach for the entire season. A coach is not hired to solve individual problems, he is hired to get the team to win their games. That's a very different process.

Nobody is a consultant anymore! Everyone who used to be a consultant is now labelling themselves as a coach. So, when someone has a business problem, they search for a Business Coach. I don't solve problems - that's not what I want to do. I enhance performance so the company (team or person) can beat its competitors and become outrageously successful.

So, saying that "Business Mentor and Personal Life Coach" on my site makes it is pretty clear what I do, I'm not sure it does. And I suspect - although I cannot be certain - that James is having a similar difficulty in expressing what he does, or wants to do.

vangogh
12-23-2009, 12:40 AM
This thread was about James' homepage, so I don't want to hijack it

James can come back and reclaim this thread any time he wants. :)


So, saying that "Business Mentor and Personal Life Coach" on my site makes it is pretty clear what I do, I'm not sure it does.

If it's clear to the people looking for your services then it's clear. It's not about what you think you should be called. It's about what the people looking to hire you think you should be called. If tomorrow everyone started searching for a teacher when they really mean consultant, you'd do well to call yourself a business teacher.

You have to speak their language.

I do think plenty of people still call themselves consultants though. Sure more people are using the word coach, but consultant is still out there. Why not mix in both words? You could refer to yourself as a Coach sometimes and as a consultant other times. If more people are looking for a coach make that the primary way you refer to yourself and use consultant as the secondary term.

Also it's possible that there is a difference between the type of person looking for a coach and the type of person looking for a consultant. Maybe you're using the one word while mostly appealing to the person searching for the other.

I just checked both "business coach" and business consultant" with the Google AdWords Keyword Tool (https://adwords.google.com/select/KeywordToolExternal)

Here's the search volume for a few phrases



Keyword November Avg monthly
business consultants 201,000 165,000
business consultant  301,000 165,000
business consulting   301,000 246,000
business coaching   60,500 90,500
business coach1   60,500 49,500


Seems like people still search for consultants.

Spider
12-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Actually, I have page on my site with the title, "Business Consultant," although it is a long way down in the SERPS for that term. Plus individual pages with as many other possible titles as I could think of. The problem, as I see it, is - What do these terms mean to people?

A long time ago, I zoned in on "mentor" rather than coach or consultant. I felt this stated what I was about more clearly. But it all comes down to what people think of when they want to find someone who does what I do. I agree, we have to speak our clients' language, but what if they are not all speaking the same language?

It's not a question of selecting an appropriate keyword, if one's prospects all use different keywords to mean different things. I would think most people searching for "business consultant" is not looking for what I do, although some might. Neither would I expect people searching for "business coach" to be looking for what I do, although it is probably the more accurate term. "Business mentor" conjours up the best idea of what I do, but so many people equate this term with someone who does this out of the goodness of his heart - they often express dismay that I charge a fee for it, as if I'm some kind of charlatan for expecting to get paid.

In consequence, I figured the best I can do is use these terms more or less interchangeably while focussing a little more on "mentor" and "mentoring."

vangogh
12-24-2009, 12:22 AM
although it is a long way down in the SERPS for that term

Probably more competition for the phrase.


The problem, as I see it, is - What do these terms mean to people?

Hard to know. You can try to find a way to ask people or try different terms and see which leads to the best results.


if one's prospects all use different keywords to mean different things

Do they really mean different things or are they using different words to say the same thing? Maybe some of each depending on the person. If they are meaning different things then you most likely appeal to those who use one or two of the terms and maybe not as much to the others. In that case focus on those phrases where you and the prospect are a better match.


I figured the best I can do is use these terms more or less interchangeably while focussing a little more on "mentor" and "mentoring."

Makes sense. And once you're doing very well pulling traffic around those keywords you can expand the focus on the others.

jamestl2
12-29-2009, 05:22 PM
Sorry for the long delay, the holidays have been quite busy , and my job search has been quite hectic (I swear, there's 100's of places I applied to, and only one or two have bothered to respond, it's kinda frustrating).

Anyway, I have a few homepage designs sketched out, and I'll re-post after they're live / need feedback etc. if I an get them live over the next few days or so.

Thanks again for all the advice.

vangogh
12-29-2009, 06:53 PM
No worries. Frederick and I had fun hijacking your thread while you were gone :)


I swear, there's 100's of places I applied to, and only one or two have bothered to respond, it's kinda frustrating

I hate to tell you this, but that's not uncommon. Years ago I graduated with an engineering degree and began applying for work. I sent out a resume to every engineering firm in New York, without a reply (maybe a form rejection letter, but nothing else.) Then I proceeded to send a resume to every firm in New Jersey with the same results. When I got to Connecticut I finally had a response, which led to a job.

I probably sent out 250 resumes over the summer. If I remember correctly the economy wasn't doing great then either. I guess this would have been around 1990.

Job searching can be frustrating and depressing at times, but you have to keep at it. You only need the one reply that leads to a job. If you want email me your resume. I sent so many out over the course of my life, that I gained the skill of improving other people's resumes.

You might also look into hiring someone like Dan to rewrite the resume for you.

Spider
12-30-2009, 11:53 AM
I often hear this complaint - "Oh! I sent out hundreds of job applications and no-one had the courtesy to reply!" Why would you want a reply? The only reply you need is, "Call this number for an interview."

You don't want and certainly don't need a hundred replies say, "No!" Especially you don't need replies telling you no plus and explanation. What could be more depressing?!

How long will it be before you don't want a job anymore? No answer? Then keep applying until then!

Harold Mansfield
12-30-2009, 08:20 PM
I know the difference between doing a site for someone else and having to do one for yourself and how frustrating it is to come up with your own vision.

I have 3 different sites promoting my WP services because I can never narrow in on exactly what I want for myself and whether to project as a me, or as a company.

I do think however, that if you are offering design services that your site should be an example of what kind of work you do. People are very visual and online that is all they have to go on.

I kind of use this as a guide, "If I were hiring a BMW mechanic, how would I expect his BMW to look ?"

vangogh
12-31-2009, 01:21 AM
I know the difference between doing a site for someone else and having to do one for yourself and how frustrating it is to come up with your own vision.

Of all the clients I've ever had, the hardest one to satisfy has been me. Everything I would advise a client to do I ignore. Every site I design for myself is designed again and again and again.

Spider
12-31-2009, 09:27 AM
...Everything I would advise a client to do I ignore. Every site I design for myself is designed again and again and again.Maybe that's because you keep ignoring your own advice. Don't you think a client who ignored your advice repeatedly would need his site designed repeatedly, too?

jamestl2
01-02-2010, 02:39 PM
Alright guys, I formed the basic structure of my homepage (Thanks Dan!) and applied some styles to it, although I didn't really make it "colorful" as nothing stands out, and I'm not sure if I want to, or what should.

Also, I know going full-width does stretch the content out, but I can't think of anything to put in the empty space (sidebar) ATM if I were to create one.

Dan Furman
01-03-2010, 01:45 AM
Alright guys, I formed the basic structure of my homepage (Thanks Dan!) and applied some styles to it, although I didn't really make it "colorful" as nothing stands out, and I'm not sure if I want to, or what should.

Also, I know going full-width does stretch the content out, but I can't think of anything to put in the empty space (sidebar) ATM if I were to create one.

I love the opening (but then again, I would :) ) - maybe put the "why" and "what" sentences in a different color (experiement with this a little). But yea, you got it - bam, right between the eyes - "here's EXACTLY what I do"

I love it.

vangogh
01-03-2010, 08:18 PM
It's better Dan...I mean James...umm, who's site am I reading.

I do see where you grabbed the inspiration. Don't you agree your page reads much better now and makes it much clearer to visitors what you do?


Don't you think a client who ignored your advice repeatedly would need his site designed repeatedly, too?

Depends which advice they ignore I guess. The main difference of course is that if a client keeps wanting me to redesign their site they have to keep paying me more money to do the work.

With me it's just me trying to hard to be a perfectionist when I know I don't have to.