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View Full Version : to reimburse or not?



huggytree
12-01-2009, 04:45 PM
I already know im going to reimburse the customer in this situation, but i thought id like to see what you all thought.

i get a call on a 2 month old water heater i installed at 6pm the night before Thanksgiving...I dont service the water heaters i install. They come with a 1 year warranty from Rheem. Rheem sends a tech. over and handles it.....So i gave the homeowner the Rheem 1800 # and also the plumbing company which does the service for them in the area....i warn them it cant be done on weekends and holidays....of course they are hosting Thanksgiving in their brand new home....

My warranty says 1 year...it gives no details on who or when.....

I get a fax from the builder today....its a bill from the homeowner and a nasty letter they sent him also....they had a service plumber do the repair on Thanksgiving morning....they didnt use the plumber i told them to use.....its $180 which i feel is in line....its a better price than i would charge for a Holiday.

The homeowner was also angry w/ Rheem 1800 #.....they tried to get him to do some tests over the phone...they were trying to solve his problem because of the Holiday....this made the homeowner angry....

I can understand how the homeowner felt and i possibly would have done the same thing....now i have to go through hoops to try to get some reimbursement back...i may get nothing since it wasnt their guy who fixed it..

part of me says i should say 'screw you' to the homeowner for taking charge and doing the wrong thing and not calling me about their decision....but since i do see their point of view im going to just pay it and hope for a reimbursement....i made a point w/ the sales rep. that i only use their waterheaters....

would any of you refuse to reimburse?

thx4yrtym
12-01-2009, 05:32 PM
Unless this is going to cause you to lose the builder's business, I wouldn't pay the bill. You took the call, you took the time to advise the homeowner. It's not your fault that he can't follow directions. It's reasonable that rheem tried to troubleshoot the thing over the phone. If Sears put in his dishwasher they would probably handle a similar situation the same way.

Just my 2 cents.

good luck with it.

huggytree
12-01-2009, 05:58 PM
builder is a bully and complained about the cost of every extra no matter how small it was......i havent been happy w/ him....i did make good profit off the project though..if i was too busy i wouldnt work with him again anyways, but 'too busy' may be years away

i think i already lost the builder because he doesnt call anymore for me to do service work on his slums like he used to.

this is a builder who has built 1 house in 3 years...not a major loss...but its not alot of $ either..

what i may do is only refund what the reimbursement is...if its $20 shy so be it....the problem is the builder will just cover the extra $20 and bad mouth me to others.

i wish the homeowner would have sent me the bill direct, but he didnt for that reason.

nealrm
12-01-2009, 06:06 PM
Wait a second huggytree, let me see if I have this correct. You installed a water heater the night before Thanksgiving, on Thanksgiving morning that water heater was not working. If I was that homeowner, both you and Rheem would be getting a call.

Also, why don't you service the water heaters you install? It seems like that would just make sense.

huggytree
12-01-2009, 06:20 PM
water heater was installed 2 months before the problem

even if i serviced it i wouldnt be able to get parts on Thanksgiving...most supply houses werent open Friday after either!....The plumber they called had the part in stock (a blower assembly)

No i dont service anything technical....i install products all the time i dont service..anything with electronics is a definate NO...im not a service plumber..im a remodel and new construction plumber...there is a difference...to be under warranty i would have had to be an 'authorized' plumber....which means 'i accept a lower hourly rate'.....even if i knew how to fix it and had the parts i wouldnt get reimbursed...

i can fix most new faucets and toilets, but dont like to....its not my slice of the market.

some large shops have seperate guys for new homes, remodeling, commercial, service....very few plumbers could do it all....its all specialties.

I decided to write the builder a letter to counter their complaints. It turned out well....It will smooth things over...i feel you should always give a 2nd side to every issue.

lav
12-02-2009, 05:12 PM
Send the bill to Rheem.... along with the customers letter and tell Rheem its not your problem. Tell your customer (if they call) that you have sent their complaint to Rheem and that you are waiting their response and give them Rheems number again.


My warranty says 1 year...it gives no details on who or when.....Is this your warranty or Rheems warranty?

huggytree
12-02-2009, 06:42 PM
My contract says 'Waukesha Plumbing warranties all workmanship & materials to be free of defects for 1 year from the date of final invoice'

Rheem gives the owner a 6 year parts warranty and a 1 year labor warranty.

I will not be sending any money until i recieve the check from Rheem. a normal payout is 4 weeks, but because the repairman isnt 'qualified', the defective part is being claimed by a different company and its the holidays i can see 8 weeks easy.

i cant communicate directly with the homeowner...all communications must go through the builder....so i cant be a jerk about it to anyone...

Business Attorney
12-03-2009, 12:34 AM
My contract says 'Waukesha Plumbing warranties all workmanship & materials to be free of defects for 1 year from the date of final invoice'.

Dave, I'd have to say it is almost certain that your warranty is independent of any manufacturer's warranty. Whether the manufacturer gives a 30 day warranty, a 6 year warranty or none at all, you have clearly stated that Waukesha Plumbing warranties the materials to be free of defects for one year. Your customer can come after you or, if the customer wishes, make a claim under the manufacturer's warranty. It is their option, not yours.

As long as your warranty is as broadly stated as it is, I don't see that you have any choice but to cough up the dough when someone has a problem you cannot fix during the one year warranty period. If that is NOT what you want, then you had better come up with a much more clearly stated warranty.

handprop
12-03-2009, 01:59 AM
Just pay the 180 and be done with it. Does it really matter?

I can see why the customer would be upset. He/she just wants it done smoothly, easily, and without pain.

Mike

Steve B
12-03-2009, 03:44 AM
If you have a broad and generous warrenty - you might as well make it work in your favor. I'd give them the check immediately and make it a point they know you are happy to stand behind your work.

I have the best guaranty around - nobody in my area even comes close. It's a marketing feature for me - so I take advantage of the rare opportunities when someone has to take me up on it to prove that it's not just talk. I even posted a letter on my website from someone that chose to return my system.

The best way to build trust is through actions - so use the opportunity to show your builder you stand behind your warrenty and it wasn't just something that sounded good at the time you wrote it.

Spider
12-03-2009, 11:19 AM
I agree. Pay up and move on. In fact, it could be the best $180 you spent this year. This is one of those rare occasions when what you do will feel good and will be good for yourself, the builder and the client.

Doing the right thing is even more important than doing things right!

handprop
12-03-2009, 11:42 AM
Both Steve and Spider bring great points to the conversation here. In reality how many warranty claims do you really have? Sometimes great warranties are the foundation of a good business and customers can choose that as the reason to buy. Make that person happy as a clam and they will spread the word and do marketing for you.

In Steves dog business he said he offers a great warranty, and I bet he knows he can because he also knows he produces a great product to match. A smart business man once told me that a great warranty keeps the business honest because you are forced to live up to it and if you don't you will go broke. I like that theory and it makes good sense.

I bet if you offered a 5 year warranty you would be on your A game 24/7 to live up to it. And the people giving a 1 year warranty gets left in the dust. Ever warranty something you installed after the year is up? When was it? How many years after you installed it did it go bad?

A 5 year warranty can go a long way if marketed correctly.

Just my two pennies worth.

Mike

cocoy
12-03-2009, 04:57 PM
How can it be your warranty when you give them rheem's and rheem's plumber's number to fix any potential problem?

Shouldn't they be calling you directly if you're advertising that your company has a 1 year warranty? Then after that 1 year is up, the homeowner's should call the manufacturer.

Steve B
12-04-2009, 06:16 AM
Mike is right.

My warrenty has even been flipped upside down. My current promotion lets someone get my fence installed for FREE. They then have 60 days to decide if they want to keep it or not. I did this because after speaking to my customers over the years - they are absolutely ecstatic - even years later, on their decision to install my fence. There is just about a zero chance that anyone will choose to give it up after they live with it for a couple months. I always had a 60 day unconditional guarantee - now, I don't even ask them to pay until they're satisfied.

I also have a 1 year line break guarantee. If the wire breaks for ANY reason I will repair it free. You bet I take extreme precautions to make sure I install it right the first time. I've NEVER had anyone hit the wire with an edger, weedeater, or any other preventable cause. I'd probably install it just as well without the warrenty (just my nature) but, this way I can tell the customer why I'm motivated to do it right.

The moral of the story is to make the warrenty work in your favor for marketing purposes. Or, change it.

cocoy
12-04-2009, 11:51 AM
The type of warranty offered definitely will sway me one way or the other.

Steve, about you fence warranty. Have you had someone want their money back? Is it cheaper to just leave the fence instead of digging it all up again?

Steve B
12-04-2009, 06:54 PM
In 5 years I've only had a two or three take advantage of the refund (all due to very unusual circumstances). I don't dig up the wire - I take back the hardware and make a few breaks in the wire just so they can't hook up another system later.

huggytree
12-04-2009, 09:31 PM
i install Rheem, AO Smith, Bradford white, Rinnai, Noritz water heaters...how could i learn and be qualified to repair 5 different brands and probably 100+ models????

I would not be reimbursed fully since i wouldnt be a 'qualified' repair guy...

I cant be expected to repair every hi-tech device i sell....faucets & toilets are easy.... electronic devices arent....

oh yea id have to learn how to repair water softeners & iron filters too...

My mistake was to get the homeowner involved...i should have gone to their house on Thanksgiving...Called 1800Rheem....gone through their check list....then called the authorized repair shop on Friday.....Id be 100% in control and if the homeowner still went on their own they'd know they are on their own...

I give the 1 year warranty, but my contract doesnt say who will repair it or when... just because I give the warranty i dont understand why everyone thinks my company has to do the actual repair???? should i have a special column on my contract saying which repairs are to be done by service companies????

anyways.....i sent the check to the builder today....we talked on the phone and argued a bit....he was 95% lost before this issue...now he's 100% and its mutual....im getting to the point of not trying to work on new construction anymore...pay is low and expectations are high....i really let $180 stress me out for 2 days...i can tell work is slow..when im working 8-10 hour days id say 'who cares'...now that im just trying to pay my wage and breakeven i start caring about every hundred.

huggytree
12-04-2009, 09:39 PM
I am going to change my contract to read . 'warranty work will only be performed on normal work days'.....that would have saved me.

the homeowner should have called me first before going 'outside' for plumbing
the homeowner should have called me when they had problems w/ 1800 rheem
the homeowner should have called the correct' authorized' repairman i told them to.

i should have gone over to the house and taken control
i should not have just given them the 1800# number and the local 'authorized' guy
i should have called the authorized guy and set up the appointment



this is a new situation i havent had to handle yet...i handled it poorly overall and so did the homeowner....its one of those issues which will always be a problem..especially on weekends and holidays...there is no solution...even if i were a qualified repair guy i wouldnt have had the parts....it would have went past Thanksgiving.

Steve B
12-05-2009, 12:22 AM
I don't care who does the repair - but, it's clear you are responsible for it based on the language of your warrenty. Your language is clear you are responsible and there doesn't seem to be any limitations or conditions (i.e. you must contact Waukesha upon discovery of a problem) - so I'm not sure why there was any arguing with either the homeowner or the builder. Unless there is more language to your warrenty that you didn't share with us ...

huggytree
12-05-2009, 08:51 AM
If i listed every detail of everything that could go wrong and how every detail of what i do will be handled my contract would be 100 pages...at some point you have to simplify your contract and go with some common sense.

the warranty is 1 year and is completely open...no one would assume you could just call anyone and send the original plumber the bill.....

im not going to put in my contract that they need to contact me upon discovery of a problem in the 1st year...its assumed by 99.9% of people...

the arguing was about the homeowner not following directions, warranty collection problems because the part and the labor are being claimed by 2 seperate companies, speed of payment (i wanted to make them all wait until i was reimbursed)


Ive been talking w/ a few plumbing company owners...some said they wouldnt pay the bill...everyone said it should have not been repaired on Thanksgiving.Everyone of them said they would also have a problem with the whole situation.....i see the Thanksgiving thing as a grey area...if were my house id want it done..i wouldnt expect it, but would definately want it...which makes it a opportunity to impress someone w/ good service.


lesson learned

Spider
12-05-2009, 09:43 AM
...lesson learnedThat's the important part. I don't know whether you have learned the right lesson, but at least you learned something. I suggest you revisit this in a month and think it through again. Once the heat of the moment has subsided, you will have a more rational view of it all.)