Shopping Cart vs. PayPal buttons

[low bidder]

Do you think there are any advantages/disadvantages to opt for PayPal buttons rather than a shopping cart in your website for online sales? I've read folks like dealing with PayPal because they aren't sharing their info with merchants. Don't know if there is a better feeling of security for the customer one way or the other. Thoughts, anyone?

[billbenson]

It really depends on your product and if your customer base already have paypal accounts. For inexpensive orders, say under $100 for non commercial clients, Pay Pal works fine.

For expensive products, in my experience they declined a lot of valid transactions. If you try to sell to large companies they aren't going to have paypal accounts.

My experience with customer service with pay pal was horrible. I'd call to see why a card was declined and their answer was always "I dunno". I think thats true, the customer service people have very little information to answer questions. Also, once you sign up, your account manager doesn't want to ever hear from you again. Probably just gets paid straight commission for signing you up.

All that being said, some people have really good luck with ebay types of products, web hosting accounts etc.

If you use them, pull your money out of the account frequently. If they think you violated terms or for whatever reason they don't like you, the have been known to freeze accounts. They make you wait 6 months to get your money. This is usually for a terms violatings, but its best to take your money out frequently.

[rezzy]

I would agree with bill, for low priced items, paypal is a great system. When selling to companies or larger groups or more expensive ticketed items, your own system has its benefits. I have been using paypal and have not had any problems.

On the flip side, paypal is a free service. They do charge a % of your revenue, however if you decide to use your own system, you will have to pay for a secure certificate, and pay for the ability to accept payments online. It may work out for you, but just showing the other side of things.

Also, you can pay through paypal without having an account.

[low bidder]

Yes, it's not a problem now if people don't have a Paypal account, they simply use a credit card.

I was wondering from the visitors point of view. All things being equal with sites they visit, do they feel more/less confident with using a site with a shopping cart vs a site with paypal buttons? It would be worth the extra expense of your own shopping cart if it resulted in visitors feeling more confident. I have seen comments that shoppers like using paypal because they aren't sharing any cc info with any merchants, just with paypal. But, it may look more professional with a shopping cart and that would be more presuasive.

Thanks for your comments, btw.

[KristineS]

Some people consider businesses who use Paypal buttons to be smaller, less professional businesses. There is still some thought that Paypal is attached to Ebay and used by people selling junk they found in their house.

If you have a shopping cart, you can still use Paypal to process transactions, but those who use credit cards may never know it's Paypal.

[vangogh]

It depends on the people. My own thought is to be able to offer as many ways for customers to pay as you can. I know PayPal is perfectly fine and will accept credit cards even if you don't have an account, but some people don't so it's nice to also have a merchant account that takes credit cards.

The problem you might encounter with full shopping carts is that they can become very complex and offer too much if you're only selling a few products. They can be more than you really need.

You do sell enough items I think to justify a shopping cart. One advantage is people would be able to add an item to the cart and not have to visit PayPal until they're ready to checkout. Most carts will still let you use PayPal too. With a cart you'd be better able to display your artwork, maybe in a grid or by category.

Just understand that adding a cart and then customizing it to fit with your current design could be a lot of work depending on the cart.

[low bidder]

Thanks for the imput, all.

[FABQuest]

The bases have been well covered in the above comments but I would like to add a little more info from my personal experience.
If you choose to go with a cart, you will appear more professional and hopefully "large" which typically instills buyer confidence (of course clear customer service, warranty, return polices and the all important "contact us" info will be of extreme importance) while PayPal buttons look mom and pop. Depending on your product this can be good or bad.
With a cart PayPal offers Standard and Pro checkout process's. Standard has the advantage of no credit checks to open the account and simple reasonable fees...2.9% plus .30 per trans. The customer will be taken from your site to a PayPal page that you can customize to look like your site...your header, colors etc. They will block many charges where the customer wishes to use a CC rather then a PayPal account payment. This kills my business as my products average around $2500 each.
PayPal pro offers onsite checkout that shows no PayPal affiliation. They do require a solid credit score to be accepted and its $50 a month plus the other fees mentioned above. You will need an SSL which is no big deal. I do not know if they still hassle non PayPal account holders when they attempt to use a CC. Yes move your money quickly into your bank account.
In general, PayPal is there for PayPal. Their customer service is ok but their polices are not to protect or help the merchant. They know just about anyone can sign up for a Standard account and that can be a huge value to the person just starting out with horrible credit. Suck up, be smart with you checkout process and move away from them as soon as you can hook up with a true processor like Priority Payment Systems. Be ready to personally guarantee the account though....do not take that risk lightly!

FAB Quest Dave

[vangogh]

f you choose to go with a cart, you will appear more professional

Agreed. I'm not sure that appearing larger is necessarily better. I think a lot of people are happy to deal with a smaller business. It's the trust that's important and bigger doesn't always mean more trusted.

I've also noticed it depends on the business. Lots of web businesses use PayPal and it's become common enough that people expect it. In the beginning I only accepted credit cards through my merchant account, but as my clients starting asking for PayPal I added that as well.


Their customer service is ok but their polices are not to protect or help the merchant.

So true. That also seems to be where all the horror stories about PayPal come from. It's almost always from a merchant who had a disagreement with a customer and PayPal shut down the merchant after only hearing the customer's side. I don't think it happens often, but I've heard enough stories to believe it does happen sometimes.

[billbenson]

For you, Steve, I think PayPal should be an option. Web hosts mostly take them as well as godaddy. They have set the ground rules for you in your industry.

Perphaps "Appearing Larger" should actually be "Larger or more professional". In most cases, paypal screams amateur to me. As you mentioned and I agree it is industry Dependant.

[FABQuest]

By larger I was heading towards the shoppers virtual concept of your store which you would hope to be seen as established with infrastructure, employees, a real office or warehouse operation vs. home business appearing. If your products rely on strong warranty backing the customer needs to believe you will be there in the future for them to consider your store. Again, product/industry dependent as stated above.
I think having both an on-site CC processor as well as offering PayPal would be the best for most sites.

[Spider]

Frankly, I don't care if some people think PayPal suggests small or unprofessional, whether I'm selling or buying. PayPal means neither of us have to concern ourselves about the level of security at the other end. If I'm buying, the fewer people and companies who have to secure my CC details the better, and if I'm selling, I can assure the buyers I do not keep - in fact, never see - their CC details and they need not concern themselves about my level of security. Both trump any delusions of grandeur over "professionalism," as far as I am concerned.

[vangogh]

By larger I was heading towards the shoppers virtual concept of your store which you would hope to be seen as established with infrastructure, employees, a real office or warehouse operation vs. home business appearing

On the other hand smaller could mean being more flexible and no automated phone system or red tape. It could mean getting your money back even if it's been 31 days since purchase.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just suggesting that bigger isn't always better. Some people would prefer to deal with a company when they know the owner is the one picking up the phone. I don't think you automatically sell more because you appear bigger. In fact I think you sell best when you appear exactly the size you are.


Frankly, I don't care if some people think PayPal suggests small or unprofessional, whether I'm selling or buying

PayPal has advantages and merchant accounts have advantages. I prefer to offer both since some people prefer to pay in one over the other.

[FABQuest]

All of the above commentary (which is all valid IMO), really illustrates the need to thoroughly understand your customer base and who you wish to attract. There is no single correct formula. There is also a barrier or sorts with purchase price vs. CC usage. Once you hit the multi thousand dollar single purchase total most buyers will want to issue a check or wire transfer....that is if they don't hit you up for a PO. I offer a 2% discount for payment by cash (wire or check) which eliminates the PayPal tangles plus nets me an extra half to full point of profit. When your talking about a $25,ooo or more single sale this can be a substantial improvement in your GP. Again, its just designing your shop to keep your customers buying....whomever that may be.

FAB Quest Dave

[vangogh]

the need to thoroughly understand your customer base and who you wish to attract. There is no single correct formula.

Great point Dave. That is really what it comes down to. Understand who your customers are and giving them what they want. There isn't a single correct way to do things as you said.

[billbenson]

There is also a barrier or sorts with purchase price vs. CC usage. Once you hit the multi thousand dollar single purchase total most buyers will want to issue a check or wire transfer....that is if they don't hit you up for a PO.


I find a slight deviation in that. I frequently get credit cards up to 10k. Once in a while they will spread it across a couple of credit cards or run the card twice.

I'm getting more and more requests for net 30 on a PO. I have never, however, gotten a request to pay by check or wire transfer domestically.

I do wires internationally. Except for rare exceptions I don't take international credit cards.

[greenoak]

in the resale world...where pay pal was born....many think they protect you much worse than regular credit cards..especially in the crunchor in tricky scam type situations.......i know a few sad stories on the subject....
we do have it becasue its so popular....but i dont like it...
ann

[pete]

I will do in the "mid 5 figures" in sales each month. I offer PayPal and a regular merchant account, as well as bank transfer. I can count the "non-PayPal" transactions each month on the fingers of one hand.

I never "clear out" my PayPal account, often having $10,00 or more there. Not only do I sell from it, but I pay my suppliers with PayPal Mass Pay, which is a virtually free way of moving money around the world. Most of my larger customers pay me that way, so I have ZERO fees. I pay my suppliers worldwide that way with the highest cost to move up to I think it's $25,000 being $1.00.

Yes, the payer pays maximum of $1.00 to transfer up to $25,000. And it's instant. Days quicker than a bank wire transfer that costs $$. I sell worldwide and have PayPal funds in USD, GBP and EUR. I can transfer money to my partner in China in any one of those currencies with no conversion fees, no charges, just $1 per transfer. Since we pay the same rate to convert to HKD for our Hong Kong bank, it doesn't matter what currency I send over.

I've been using PayPal since 2001 and had 1 chargeback, where a delivery got lost. They have never frozen my account, levied any fees other than normal processing fees and I will move easily $50,000 per month in and out with Mass Pay for virtually no fees whatsoever.

Play by the rules, do what you say you will do with your buyers, give no one any reason to complain and PayPal can be your best friend.

BTW - I DO NOT sell on Ebay or other auctions, so I avoid many contentious customers from the start. :)

[vangogh]

Proof that PayPal works and is accepted.

What's PayPal Mass pay? That's new to me or at least something I haven't noticed on PayPal's site. Where would I go within the navigation to see how it works?

[pete]

First, you must have a business account. That is the only requirement. If you go to Send Money the last button to the right is Mass Pay.

Here's the instructions I give my new buyers - I attach a text file, I'll copy that at the end -

The attached file has my paypal address, the amount, USD and a sample order number, so it will tie together.

You can open and edit the file if you want to pay with GBP, EUR or USD, and be sure and enter the correct amount.

If you are paying in GBP or EUR, prior to paying go to xe.com and convert the USD total of your order(s) to your cuurency of choice.

It's a text file from a spreadsheet. Just save it as tab delimited text - .txt

When you are in paypal, click Send Money, then the last option on the right is Send a Mass Pay. Choose that,

It will say Attach Mass Payment File and offer a Browse window that goes to your PC. Just chose the file I sent.

Then it will ask Receipient Type - Choose "email address" and click continue.

It will display the contents of the file. If it looks right, just OK it and the money will be sent.

Once you have the file setup you can do this any time. Max cost is $1 and it saves the seller all the fees.


Just an Excel file saved as .txt -

account@yahoo.com.cn,1947.36,GBP,Invoice 12345 (the commas are actually tabs in the real file)

Invoice, etc. is optional. Actually just need email address, amount, currency

By Mass Pay, you can pay many people at once by having a multi-line file. I just use one line, but you could pay affiliate commissions once a month, even payroll, multiple invoices, etc.

[vangogh]

Thanks Pete. I'll have to take another look then. I forget which kind of account I have. It's more business than the personal account, but it's still a freebie and I do usually get charged a transaction fee.

I'll dig around more next time I'm in PayPal.

[MrGamma]

Do you think there are any advantages/disadvantages to opt for PayPal buttons rather than a shopping cart in your website for online sales? I've read folks like dealing with PayPal because they aren't sharing their info with merchants. Don't know if there is a better feeling of security for the customer one way or the other. Thoughts, anyone?

Paypal is dirt cheap... it's great to get up and running with, but there are some downsides.

Some people simply refse to use paypal. Yes, I have gotten a rare complaint.

Paypal restricts sending packages to certain destinations, most notably North Korea, which I am not so sure is such a bad thing, but they simply do not list that sort of information on their website, it leaves you guessing and yes there are plenty of other addresses they will not ship to, and you will never be the wiser when those orders fail to go through.

It helps to know a little more about your purchasing process. Paypal buttons don't offer that.

So it's great in some circumstances, but if you can make the move to something else it does not hurt at all to have multiple payment options available.

I have also experienced significant issues with them sending payments and then revoking that payment at a later date which just causes alot of problems. Other complain about the way complaints are deal with and accounts being frozen and such. I have had just as many problems with banks to be honest. But paypal is not the end all be all... neither are merchant accounts, jmo... it's best to support what your customer wants. Paypal is not always it.

Also... Paypal is not more secure. There are just as many people having their paypal accounts broken into as there are people having their websites broken into. The web is just not a very secure place. So be it... This is just my opinion of course... not based on surveys or statistics...

PCI compliance is one option to look into if your a business looking to make your site more secure. Another option is to keep the software updated to the most secure release, try and stay away from shared server space, and if you can, go with a software service and avoid putting development and security responsibilities into your own hands. Jmo...

[vangogh]

if you can make the move to something else it does not hurt at all to have multiple payment options available.

That's the key to me. PayPal is easy to set up so you can collect money, but why not have as many ways to get paid as possible. Each have their pros and cons.

[TmasterMind]

I agree. Although PayPal does make point as said it's been widely used in every business and that's also the reason why people are already rapidly creating accounts there as well and that you'll need to cater them on how will it be easier to transact the market. There are still these issues which go around the use of credit card online and on the second note, not all people are so keen in giving their credit card data especially on third part basis. Thus, it would all depend upon a good website and a good product.

[billbenson]

PayPal does make point as said it's been widely used in every business

Paypal isn't widely used in B2B. In fact its only widely used in B2B for certain industries like web hosting.

[pete]

I'll do $40,000 per month with PayPal, selling wholesale.

[billbenson]

They wouldn't process most cc payments over a few hundred dollars for me. And they frequently were from small unknow companies like the US Navy. The navy doesn't pay by paypal by the way.

[darkeye]

As Bull said if you are selling low priced items you should go with paypal, because its easier.
If its over 100$ or bulk items better to have a shopping cart. Depends on what you are selling.

[FABQuest]

They wouldn't process most cc payments over a few hundred dollars for me. And they frequently were from small unknow companies like the US Navy. The navy doesn't pay by paypal by the way.

Yes good point, I have not found any government entity that will pay by PayPal.