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huggytree
11-22-2009, 05:34 PM
my biggest customer (and best) is a large fire/water restoration company.

they have multiple salesman and project managers.

Im in good with 1 salesman and 1 project manager...im in so-so with a couple other project managers(i do stuff once in a while).

I was in good with more salesman, but they got fired.

I also do alot of their 'small' emergency jobs....i know those guys prefer me because i react quickly for them.

Im considered by most to be their #1 plumber...they use me as an example of the 'perfect' contractor at their annual contractor luncheon...I was also chosen by their VP to remodel his bathroom.

They have 1 project manager who i would love to work with...i hear he's got all the large projects....why not grow within your current customers instead of finding new ones...it should be easier.

I send him my fliers monthly...ive called his cell phone and left messages asking for the opportunity to bid(a few times over a 1 year period)...he never responds...ive spoken once at their weekly whole company meeting...but i didnt know which guy out of 50 he was...so he's seen my presentation....

the owner knows me by name and i know he likes me too...ive heard he talks about me to other contractors at builder association meetings....should i ask him for some help? (he lets the project managers hire who they want)

how do i get a chance with this guy? any sales tips?

ive asked my project manager friend to bring it up with him also...

ive been agressive enough and am worried about being too agressive.

anything else i could try? a personal letter asking for a meeting?

lav
11-22-2009, 06:53 PM
Maybe he likes and trusts his current plumber. Why chance it with someone new if the current plumber gets the job done for him. Dont give up but also like you said be careful where you tread. You want to stay on terms with him just in case his current plumber cant get the job done for some reason and then hopefully you will get your chance.

Be persistant but not overwhelming for him. I know for one I wont hire a sign installer for contract work if they hound me constantly. But I do like to be reminded that they are still there if I need them.

I had a similar sort of thing with Coke reps. We were doing signs for about 9 out of fifteen reps in our local area. Even the Regional manager referred us to all the reps. It drove me crazy for a long time that these other reps would not even give us the opportunity to quote. Im still unsure as to why but Im guessing that those other reps had just built a good relationship with their current suppliers and stayed loyal.

Steve B
11-22-2009, 07:08 PM
I agree with Lav - he's probably just being loyal to someone that has taken good care of him and his projects. Just keep reminding him occasionally and eventually something will happen where he will need you. Then, he might be just as loyal to you from then on.

Spider
11-22-2009, 08:21 PM
From what I've heard you saying in this forum, Dave, and from what you say in this post ...

a) you want to stay small and be able to spend some time on the tools.

b) this project manager handles all the large jobs, which I suspect requires a larger plumbing contractor than a one- or two-man operation. Especially when several of the large restoration projects overlap.

Could it be that he has decided you are not big enough to do his work and have no desire to become big enough?

huggytree
11-23-2009, 07:31 AM
ive rarely been too busy to take on alittle more work...id love to expand and hire a journeyman,....so workload is not a problem.

im not hounding him yet.....he should know i exist for sure though. My marketing is to constantly remind people i exist through my mailers..

I thought of calling him and asking if i could take him to lunch sometime....from past experience ill get his voice mail....

any thoughts on the lunch date idea? too agressive?

(i havent cold called him in 3-4 months)

Spider
11-23-2009, 09:14 AM
ive rarely been too busy to take on alittle more work...id love to expand and hire a journeyman,....That's the point. If this PM to which you refer is handling "all the large jobs" someone taking on a little more work is not what he wants. He wants someone to handle a lot more work. Possibly - depending on the number, size and type of his projects - he needs a plumber who can have 10 or 20 men available at a moment's notice. You have indicated that you do not want to be this big.

Again, I see you hankering after work you have said you do not want.

KristineS
11-23-2009, 10:09 AM
If you've tried repeatedly to make contact with this guy and gotten no response, I'd just leave it at that. Send him your mailers every once in a while to remind him you exist and concentrate on doing your best work for the project managers with whom you do work.

Obviously this guy has someone to whom he is loyal. If you're too pushy you'll just turn him off.

huggytree
11-23-2009, 05:48 PM
this is a residential builder...no way he'd need 20 plumbers....

busy w/ large projects means he could probably give me 40-60 hours a month at the most...im usually in/out on a whole house remodel in 3 days....most of the project managers only do 1 house every 3 months.....

Spider
11-23-2009, 06:38 PM
my biggest customer (and best) is a large fire/water restoration company....

this is a residential builder...no way he'd need 20 plumbers....
busy w/ large projects means he could probably give me 40-60 hours a month at the most...im usually in/out on a whole house remodel in 3 days....most of the project managers only do 1 house every 3 months.....I was replying to the first post - referencing "a large fire/water restoration company" not a residential builder.

"a large fire/water restoration company"
"they have multiple salesman and project managers."
"1 project manager [has] all the large projects"
"whole company meeting...which guy out of 50 he was"

I suppose it depends on what you mean by LARGE fire/water restoration company and LARGE projects, but I am imagining multi-story office buildings gutted by fire, apartment complexes, and so on -- not one occasional single-family home every 3 months.

I guess I misunderstood your use of the word, "Large."

huggytree
11-23-2009, 07:47 PM
large for me....

they have 50 guys. but i think many restorations dont involve plumbing.....alot of minor stuff like a toilet overflowing...they pull and reset the toilet themselves...trees falling on houses....minor fires....i only usually get the major fires...

they dont do commercial....

i see your point about large....they are large in employees....they are my largest customer.....but as far as jobs go they are small & steady...i get $50k in work out of them this year....the potential is probably $100k....

thx4yrtym
11-23-2009, 09:01 PM
Sounds like there's every reason to believe that this guy knows who you are and the quality of your work.

What could you possibly say to him at lunch if he did agree to go to lunch with you?

You going to tell him that his loyalty to this other plumber is stupid and you deserve the work more?

Sounds like you have a pretty sweet deal with the rest of the staff and leave well enough alone. If he need more help, he knows how to find you.

Just a thought.

handprop
11-24-2009, 07:55 AM
Do what I do

Find out who his best friends are
Find out what his hobbies are
Find out what his favorite restaurant is
Find out what makes him tick

Then ask yourself "what do you have to offer him that he doesn't already have?"

If your just another plumbing guy your chances are slim to none!

Mike

lav
11-25-2009, 05:13 PM
Find out who his best friends are
Find out what his hobbies are
Find out what his favorite restaurant is
Find out what makes him tickWow....why do you want to know who his best friends are?. Id get a little worried if someone was trying to find out so much about my social life. I would feel stalked.

handprop
11-25-2009, 05:22 PM
Have any great friends?
Do you know about the interests they have? Of course!

12 years ago I met my banker for the first time and we didn't know each other.

Now our kids play together
Him and I own an airplane together
We eat lunch together
Our wives hang out and chat together
He introduced me to other strangers who are now my good friends, they include developers, business owners, senators, congressman, etc.

If I met him for the first time, shook his hand and walked away then what?

Everything is about relationships......everything!!!!

It's how the world works, I don't make the rules, I follow them!

Mike

lav
11-25-2009, 05:33 PM
Yes I understand about building relationships. There is a difference though between building working relationships and trying to find out who a project managers best friend is so you can "offer him something"

From what huggy has said he doesnt have much of a relationship with this guy as it is so sourcing out his friends and family would be a little worrying for a project manager.

handprop
11-25-2009, 10:04 PM
If I wouldn't of found out he was a pilot we wouldn't have an airplane together. Stalking is maybe how you look at it but I gained a friend for life.

This wouldn't of happened if when he shook my hand for the first time I walked away.

Instead I asked him if he would like to grab a quick lunch, and all we talked about is airplanes......not money.......not business......just airplanes.

The restaurant???? Well, I knew people he knew so I asked where they all go to lunch so that's a no brainer.

I found out what makes him tick by being a great listener and I found out we had certain things in common and we would compliment each other in business.

All this requires a person to give something of themselves..........basically a strong offer......gee, where have I heard that before.


Here is something else for you about relationships. Let's talk about Dan Furman here on the forum.

I'm heavily involved in politics

I have read Dans posts

People like me can always use a service like that

I have clicked on his link to his site

I have forward it to some buddies in the same business as me

I feel confident in protecting my reputation because I have read what he writes and it's good.

If he lived locally I would ask him to lunch

I would invite other friends who also need the service to lunch.

Once were all friends we have loyalty

And.....loyalty means......they would always use him because to not use a friends service is a stab in the back.


OK, so lets talk about the plumbing problem.

They don't know each other, they just know OF each other.......enough said!

So how is that stalking? You don't think people join golf clubs to actually play golf do you?????

After landing at one of the 200,000 airports in America we all hang out in the lounge and talk, and most of us own businesses. Airports are a social club and it's about friendships and supporting each other. Connections my friend connections.

Two years ago I saw a guy walking on the side of the road and noticed his car a mile away. I stopped and asked him if he needed help so he jumped in. We drove together to a gas station the whole time talking. I found out he is a partner in a small printing company and owns a big web press. We are now great friends and I use his printing ability whenever the need comes up.

I don't know how else to explain it.
Mike

lav
11-26-2009, 01:40 AM
You are making it sound as if I know nothing about building relationships. But even still if I was trying to gain business from someone who wasnt returning my calls or taking me up on any offers the last thing I would be doing is trying to do is gain access to his friends, that is something i would expect to come after a longer period of time. I think your comments above are all correct and I agree with most of what you said provided you have already built even an early relationship with the person.

But the reality is if he does not want to build a relationship with huggy and huggy starts approaching this guys friends, rocking up to his favourite restaraunts, joining his golf club, and probing into his personal life where he is not welcome then YES that IS Stalking.

A relationship needs to be a 2 way connection, you cannot force someone to "hit it off" with you like your banker did. I am sure there are people that you wanted to build a relationship with who really werent interested

It sounds to me as if Huggy has given him many opportunities to form a relationship (read through his earlier posts)
I also believe you and I have driven this thread way off topic but anyway lets buy a plane together??? LOL

Steve B
11-26-2009, 04:02 AM
That would be downright scary to me if someone was trying to get my business and ALREADY knew who my friends were and what my favorite places to eat were. I'd be thinking along the lines of restraining order - not doing business with him.

Mike - you make great points about building relationships, I just think you have the order of things a bit backwords. To answer one of your questions above - yes, I know all those things about my friends. But, I didn't know ANY of those things before I met the person. It all came about through a natural progression, not from doing prior research.

Spider
11-26-2009, 09:49 AM
This all reminds me of an approach I had from a prospective coaching client. The contact came by e-mail. The prospect was a chiropractor and wanted to know if we could meet - he had visited my website and wanted to discuss the possibility of hiring me.

At this point, I only knew his name and that he was a chiropractor. His e-mail was devoid of any other information. I assumed he lived in Houston from his request for us to meet. I checked the telephone directory for chropractors with his name and there was only one. The telephone directory includes addresses, or course, so I checked for the Starbucks nearest to his office and e-mailed that I would be happy to meet him and suggested a particular Starbucks, "that was near his office."

He was most put out that I had searched for his address to determine which Starbucks was close to him, and severed the contact. He acted as if he felt his priivacy was violated. IOW, stalked!

I now never try to find out anything about people unless they tell me this information themselves.

handprop
11-26-2009, 11:34 AM
Prior research has nothing to do with it. Read the last part of my original post.

All I can say is my relationships happened because of two things. First, I have something to offer and second, I put fourth the effort to make it happen, calling someone on the phone is not effort.

I get between 150 and 300 emails and text messages a day, most of them I don't respond. Just about everybody I do business with was met through other people. It's rare to have someone walk up to me and we start doing business.

The point is, that's all he is doing. The second point is the guy on the other end sees him as just another plumber in a sea of plumbers. I would blow him off also.

I'm a very motivated and proactive person. Energy is what makes things happen, it's ridiculous to assume people sit down and calculate how to meet someone. One thing I wont do is sit down and wait for something to happen on its own.

Mike