PDA

View Full Version : some people just dont get it..pay me now or pay me later



huggytree
11-02-2009, 03:31 PM
Had a cold call this morning which agravated me.

She started out asking for my hourly rate...which means my odds of getting her are 1%

I let her explain her problems to me...she had a drain which is plugged...she complained about how poorly the last guy did and now she has to pay again...I gave her the phone # of my drain guy...told her he's older and very experienced and he WOULD fix the drain....she took the phone #...I checked up on it after....never called him.

Then she explained that she has 2 toilets which need rebuilding...they were American Standard's....She had them rebuilt a year ago and they are leaking again...she explained how the guy took 1.5 hours to rebuild each of them...I told her i charge $155 per hour and $100 after that...she said ..'oh my gosh..$155!'.....I explained to her how that brand name is Horrible and has class action lawsuits against their toilets...they are a pain in the butt to get parts and to rebuild...i recommended new toilets....she said she doesnt want to pay for that...then I explained how if she rebuilds them for $250 each for the 2nd time that she will probably be rebuilding them next year for another $250 each....or she can buy 2 new toilets from me...ones which can rebuilt from basic parts every plumber carries on his van and wouldnt need rebuilding for 5 years +....she said NO....

she'll pay $500 a year to rebuild these toilets, when she could pay $800 one time to get new better toilets...

you get what you pay for....pay me now or pay me later....

I knew id never get the job from the first 5 seconds of the phone call....Im always trying new sales techniques on these people...some day i hope to win...im slow today, so i spent extra time explaining things to this customer...
my head hurts from banging it against a wall...if i had fixed her toilets she'd be bad mouthing my company next year to the next plumber....American Standard is so bad i charge extra or refuse to install their products...they are horrible to work with.

vangogh
11-02-2009, 07:43 PM
Instead of trying something new to land these people as clients, why not just identify them as quick as possible so you can move on. Seems like these are the kind of customer that you don't end up making any money and only drive you crazy.

You're right about some people though. They'll buy the cheaper solution and then be fixing it year after year. I'm not sure if it's because they always choose the cheapest route or if they mistrust anyone who tries to sell them on something that costs a little more up front.

rezzy
11-02-2009, 08:15 PM
I think you just have to accept that some possible clients arent a fit and not worth the time and energy required to get the job done. Some think they bought it and now you owe them services above and beyond.

Harold Mansfield
11-02-2009, 08:17 PM
Had a cold call this morning which agravated me.

She started out asking for my hourly rate...which means my odds of getting her are 1%

I let her explain her problems to me...she had a drain which is plugged...she complained about how poorly the last guy did and now she has to pay again...I gave her the phone # of my drain guy...told her he's older and very experienced and he WOULD fix the drain....she took the phone #...I checked up on it after....never called him.

Then she explained that she has 2 toilets which need rebuilding...they were American Standard's....She had them rebuilt a year ago and they are leaking again...she explained how the guy took 1.5 hours to rebuild each of them...I told her i charge $155 per hour and $100 after that...she said ..'oh my gosh..$155!'.....I explained to her how that brand name is Horrible and has class action lawsuits against their toilets...they are a pain in the butt to get parts and to rebuild...i recommended new toilets....she said she doesnt want to pay for that...then I explained how if she rebuilds them for $250 each for the 2nd time that she will probably be rebuilding them next year for another $250 each....or she can buy 2 new toilets from me...ones which can rebuilt from basic parts every plumber carries on his van and wouldnt need rebuilding for 5 years +....she said NO....

she'll pay $500 a year to rebuild these toilets, when she could pay $800 one time to get new better toilets...

you get what you pay for....pay me now or pay me later....

I knew id never get the job from the first 5 seconds of the phone call....Im always trying new sales techniques on these people...some day i hope to win...im slow today, so i spent extra time explaining things to this customer...
my head hurts from banging it against a wall...if i had fixed her toilets she'd be bad mouthing my company next year to the next plumber....American Standard is so bad i charge extra or refuse to install their products...they are horrible to work with.

I used to beat my head up against the wall on people like that (in my old job) until it dawned on me, (especially with a cold calls) that you cannot make people understand things that you already know to be true..especially if they have already made up their minds what they want to hear from you.

They don't trust what you are saying because it's all a sales pitch to them. The next 5 guys may tell her the exact same thing and on the 6th guy, she'll say "You know, I've heard that before".

I may have given her a few links to see for herself how bad the product is, and invited her to call me back...and told her that you would do it any way that she wanted it, and give her a great deal either way.

Steve B
11-03-2009, 06:12 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but, I'll never understand why in the world you would ever quote an hourly rate. There is no reason for it and she probably didn't hear a word you said after the $155. She and/or her husband and their friends probably never made more than $25 per hour in their life. She might even know attorneys that charge less than that. Just tell her your price for a rebuild and a price for a new installation - period.

Yes, you will never get every customer and you shouldn't be trying to.

"American Standard is so bad i charge extra or refuse to install their products" - if they are so bad, I think you should make up your mind and refuse to install their products. Your credibility will go up with people if you are willing to walk away from money (even an extra amount) because you don't want to be associated with poor quality hardware.

Spider
11-03-2009, 09:13 AM
Not to beat a dead horse, but, I'll never understand why in the world you would ever quote an hourly rate. There is no reason for it and she probably didn't hear a word you said after the $155. She and/or her husband and their friends probably never made more than $25 per hour in their life. She might even know attorneys that charge less than that. ... Exactly!

Here's where the extreme proves the point - that the customer is always right!

This lady was right - she knew what she wanted and was trying to find it. The error she made was calling a plumber that doesn't do the kind of work she was looking for. But how was she to know until she called?

It did provide an opportunity to sell her something else, but as vendors we must always be conscious of what the customer really wants. She wanted her bathroom to work and she didn't want to spend much money. All we can do is explain how we would solve her problem and let her decide if our solution is within her criterion of "not much money."

Taking an attitude that indicates we think the customer is stupid or aggravating is guaranteed to lose the sale and make enemies in the community. Making the whole conversation a waste of everyone's time. One would have been no less insulting to have hung up after 30 seconds, but at least we would have not wasted the time and would not finish up aggravated at some people's lack of financial resources.

phanio
11-03-2009, 10:28 AM
All great points here - if American Standard is bad - what is a better brand? American Standard seems to be the standard in all houses - based on your points here I would assume it is because they are cheap.

Two points - 1 - already given - why waste time with them is you know right off the bat that you won't get the job - is it pride to tell them what they don't want to hear and what they won't listen too.

2 - if you really want to spend time to make them understand - capture their informaiton up front - then send them out literature that backs up your points.

This lady may very well find a cheap plumber to do the fix this year - but, come next year - she will be looking you up again and this time - you may have a better chance.

huggytree
11-03-2009, 10:36 AM
Im always working on my sales technique...i think there's a way to turn some of these price shoppers into customers....im slow for a couple of weeks....when im slow i always try extra hard to turn these types of cold calls into customers....instead of quoting a quick price and saying good bye i try to explain things and win them over...so far im 0 out of 100+

I still prefer to do odd/small jobs at T&M....i always try to flat rate a project, but sometimes you dont know what your getting into or the customer is unable to describe the situation...

I know we've gone over this over and over like 10x over the years....

does anyone know of a sales book which would be good for contractors? with all my free time coming up im going to run out of home improvement projects by next week and id like to try to improve my sales techniques.....i definately think there room to improve.

vangogh
11-03-2009, 11:03 AM
i think there's a way to turn some of these price shoppers into customers

Yes, but not necessarily the kind of customers you want. You're trying to put a lot of effort into something that probably never has a happy ending. If you're 0 out of 100+ now how much are you hoping that will change? Are you hoping to get to 1 out of 100+? 2 out of 100+?

You're not going to change these people's minds. If you want to sell to them what you need to do is install the cheap products they want. I don't think you want to do that and I don't think you should. It goes against the brand I think you're trying to build. In the end it sends a confusing message.

You can't work high end for one group of people and then low end for another. Inevitably those two groups find out how you treat the other group and neither ends up happy.

Spider
11-03-2009, 02:38 PM
There's generally a good reason for people to do anything. My thoughts are that these type of people want cheap because they don't have money enough to be anything else.

You could put Zig Ziglar himself on the job and 99% of these people will be sold on the idea but still will be unable to complete the purchase because they don't have the money.

IOW, better selling ability is not the answer here, better qualifying is.

To answer the question, though - Zig Ziglar has been top of the sales training field for ages. Amything by Zig is recommended.

Steve B
11-04-2009, 04:12 AM
I also think part of this is that she legitimately may not need a plumber for this job. I'm sure there are plenty of handymen out there that can adequately do this job. I know lots of handymen that are thrilled to make $35 an hour.

It would be like hiring a top heart surgeon to give you a routine physical. Sure, it's nice to have the expert, but you pay for their skills and reputation even if it's a routine physical.

Re: the T&M aspect of a job like this. From reading your many posts over the years it seems like you are afraid to lose ANY money on even ONE job. If you accept that you will be ahead on some and lose on some you will probably be able to GET a lot more of these little jobs and be far ahead overall.

vangogh
11-04-2009, 11:34 AM
My thoughts are that these type of people want cheap because they don't have money enough to be anything else.

That's certainly one good reason. And in that case you either give them the price they can afford or realize your business is not set up to have this person as a customer. You recommend someone who is set up for them and move on to your next customer.


From reading your many posts over the years it seems like you are afraid to lose ANY money on even ONE job.

huggy I've noticed the same thing. Sometimes it does make sense to take a loss on on job or maybe not make as much money on that job in order to increase your overall revenue. An example from a different business. If you ever notice those heavily discounted books near the register at bookstores and wonder how they can cost so little it's because they didn't sell at their original price and they cost publishers a lot of money to store in a warehouse. Publishers are losing money on each book, but overall it makes more sense for them to lose that money since they would lose more money having to store them somewhere.

In your business maybe some jobs would exist solely to help with cash flow or maybe it is to get rid of some parts you've already bought. I suspect these jobs are never going to pay as much as you like and the way to become profitable with them is to work for less, but do more volume. Maybe it means hiring some less experienced plumbers to take care of these jobs while you focus on the better paying jobs.

huggytree
11-04-2009, 02:52 PM
I never want to lose money...you definatly got that right...id rather sit at home than work for less than cost....Definately!...

if the economy hits 20% laid off id consider working for cost to survive...

I am bidding large projects for less right now to get Winter work

Ive been given 2 pieces of advice from other plumber friends i asked the question of this week....one said never give your hourly rate over the phone to this type of customer...just come up with a flat rate price (i know, iknow you have all told me this before)...and the other said to tell them that you charge $50 to come over and look at the project and will give your flat rate price then......

asking for my hourly rate as a way to compare is an incorrect way to find a plumber and i should not reward them with my price...it hurts the market for all plumbers to let people price shop so easily.

im going to try both of those idea's for a while...the $50 charge will get them off the phone quicker....ill probably get some hangups

Spider
11-04-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm glad the "Don't state an hourly rate" advice is finally being heard.

Regarding the $50 chare for a quote; at least tell them that you will waive the $50 charge if they give you the job.

It is good business to try out new ideas to see how they work for your company.

huggytree
11-04-2009, 04:23 PM
yes the $50 is waived if i get the job...definately

handprop
11-04-2009, 04:36 PM
The problem you have is not salesmanship. The business you created and the marketing you have chosen produces this type of customer.

Mike

Spider
11-04-2009, 04:52 PM
Spot on, Mike - that's what I have been saying for a long time in many more words and far less succinctly. You have hit the nail squarely on the head.

handprop
11-04-2009, 05:11 PM
Mark, why don't you start your own thread on step by step marketing. I would be happy to work you through it and help you develop a different customer base......the kind that doesn't complain or even ask for price. The kind that would never call anybody else and would be happy to wait weeks for you to show up before they would call another plumber. A business like that is no accident, it's designed to run that way. Marketing isn't something were born with it's the result of experience and time. The good news is you can become a great marketer if you work through the steps.

Or start a thread on the gift certificate you did......I'm willing to bet that didn't pan out so well.......I could help you design it so it makes money.

Yes....for free......I have read your past threads and if you keep going the way you are it's gonna have a bad ending. Why not just sit back, ask some questions, get some answers, and enjoy your business. Running a service business is a lot of fun if it's designed right.

You start a thread and I will answer questions based on years of accurate data about what works and what doesn't and why......

Isn't that what this forum is about?

Mike

nealrm
11-04-2009, 05:31 PM
I knew id never get the job from the first 5 seconds of the phone call....Im always trying new sales techniques on these people...some day i hope to win...im slow today, so i spent extra time explaining things to this customer...
my head hurts from banging it against a wall..

Huggytree, I think this says a lot about your lack of success with cold calls. Sorry, but the customer didn't make a decision in the first 5 seconds, you did. That decision predicted the end result. 2nd, "Sale techniques" will not sell your produce, you will. 3rd, if talking to a customer = banging your head against a wall you need to re-evaluate your business practices. Perhaps you need to remove yourself from the residential customer side and focus your business more on commercial work. Or you can look into hiring an assistant or a salesperson.

Last, ask your self this. "Do I enjoy working with my customers?" Then ask yourself "Do I enjoy the work I am doing (Plumbing)?" The answers will tell you a great deal about where you need to take your business.

Steve B
11-05-2009, 05:52 AM
"the $50 charge will get them off the phone quicker"

C'mon you can do better than this ... If getting a prospective customer off the phone quickly is your goal - there are far better ways to do this. For instance, tell them you will throw eggs at their house and go through their purses when they aren't looking. There are lots of others.

huggytree
11-05-2009, 08:34 AM
when all someone wants is the lowest price why not get them off the phone as quickly as possible?

im not going to get the job.

i have never gotten 1 job from someone asking for my hourly rate...never...this post was about trying to change that....

I dont think my marketing is about cheap customers at all...No where on ANY of my marketing does it say ANYTHING about price...I ignore it.....because the price is what it is...I talk about Quality and Service over and over....When I look at my Website and Phone book ads I think I look expensive....not low end.

The $20 off coupon idea is the only thing i can see that is for the 'price' type of customer...Its a test to see what happens...I will break even on 1 hour jobs, but make good profit on everything else.....it is only given out to existing customers as a way to make them keep my card....I worry most throw the cards out (my family always does) and try to just 'remember' my name....It wasnt really about money, its about saving my card to increase my referral rate.

handprop
11-05-2009, 08:41 AM
Your making assumptions based on your own thoughts and not you customers. Again, you have created this type of customer and because of that they call you. If you want to change the customer then change your marketing.

Business is not suposed to be punishment it's supposed to be fun. If you do nothing about it then tomorrow will yield the same result as today.

Like I said earlier post a new thread and we can go through it together

Mike

handprop
11-05-2009, 08:43 AM
For the twenty dollar coupon you offer it's quite clear you don't understand the purpose of it. Start a thread on that and I can help you.

Mike

vangogh
11-05-2009, 12:14 PM
when all someone wants is the lowest price why not get them off the phone as quickly as possible?

I think this makes sense. I think it's a good idea to identify the leads that are only going to waste your time and move on from them as quickly as possible. However the caveat is you may think you know who's going to waste your time, but you never really know for certain.

In my business I get emails all the time asking "how much for a website" or "how much to seo my site" Neither question is one that can be accurately answered without knowing more details. I used to reply with a long email explaining all sorts of things. It might have taken me a half hour or so to write. I never did get any of those jobs. Now I write a short and quick email asking for more details along with a very general range about what a typical site might cost. That way they can at least know if my price is in the ballpark and the message that I need more details.

I think what people are saying here though, are that you're too quickly dismissing people. You're probably right that you aren't going to get those jobs, but don't write off everyone. Find a way to respond to them that helps you quickly determine if it will lead to work, but also gives them a chance to further follow up with you.

Also the reason you get many of these people calling is because whether you realize it or not you market to them in some way. For example a $20 off coupon is going to appeal to cost conscious people and so those are the people who will be calling you. If those people don't make good customers why are you trying to appeal to them in the first place?

Spider
11-05-2009, 01:55 PM
It obviously makes sense to qualify one's prospective clients, but I think a more successful process would do that prior to or during advertising, not after. When someone calls, the advertising process is complete. We are now in the sales process. And that is a different topic of discussion.

Marketing, in my lexicon, is about getting the goods or service from the provider to the client-customer - from the factory gate to the customer's premises. Between the factory gate and the customer's premises there are three main areas - advertising/promotion, sales and shipping/delivery.

I think the qualification process - dividing the people who see the advertisement into likely buyers and unlikely buyers - needs to occur in the advertising/promotion segment, not during the sales segment. There will be some qualification during the first sales contact with the customer (for confirmation) but, to a large extent, the qualification process should be carried out before this.

What is qualifying? I believe qualifying a prospect involves weeding out those people who do not want what I sell, have no need for what I sell, and have insufficient resources to buy what I sell. Leaving me with only those people who want, need and can afford what I sell.

Effective marketing, in my view, gets only the latter group into my sales funnel, and none of the former group.

huggytree
11-05-2009, 02:12 PM
cold callers dont have my $20 coupon...only repeat customers...yes they could give my card/coupon to a friend, but its too new and hasnt happened yet..only a few $20 off coupons have been given out....it will be 6 months before i see any coming back.

I can tell pretty quickly that a customer is a price only shopper....when their first question is PRICE its pretty obvious....

my original question was how to capture some of those people and show they the error of their ways...that they should shop for value, not price....this post has gone from 'forget about those customers' to 'talk more and try to get them'...kind of funny...

in the end im probably handling it correctly, by getting rid of the quickly when im busy and trying to sway some when im slow....either way it has no visible effect...the only jobs i seem to get are referral jobs which is what i want.

handprop
11-05-2009, 04:36 PM
The idea is to change the type of customer who calls. You already know the difference between the best customers and the wort customers, so build a marketing system around the good ones, smart businesses do this all the time.

Ever wonder why referrals are so great? Marketing professionals understand this quite well. The best thing you can do for a service based business like plumbing is to concentrate marketing efforts on growing referrals. I work only of referals and if someone calls me out of the blue (very rare) I send them somewhere else. My business is based soley on WOM and referrals, I wouldn't have it any other way. Some businesses don't have this option but you do, let the other plumbers deals with price shoppers while you deal with the cream of the crop.

Mike

huggytree
11-05-2009, 09:48 PM
what should one do when WOM referrals go from 6 calls a day to 1-3 a month for 2.5 months? the end of summer WOM was so good i though by next year i wouldnt need builders...then it just stopped.

thats what im dealing with right now....everything dropped off a cliff 1 week before school started...hasnt really come back...probably wont until March/April.

All my phone calls right now that i get are emergency calls....people need me today...all are 1 hour projects...

W/O my builder jobs id have nothing...its alittle scary right now...Im hoping to break even until spring....When it gets this slow the side jobbers are everywhere and lowers everything even more...

Midwest is always 6 months-1 year behind...I think the recession is finally hit here...

handprop
11-06-2009, 12:13 AM
Don't beat yourself up over it, let's work together and solve the problem. The thing to remember is if your a good and honest plumber that will always be in demand, no matter what the economy does. The key is to find the right customer who not only wants that but is willing to pay extra for it, and pay on time. So let's just decide that's what you want and we can design a strategy to obtain it. If you don't want a strategy then let's pick one component of the marketing puzzle, nail it down and produce results without spending much money.

This is not a good thread to start something like this because it makes it tough for others to find it when they need help in the future, so you should start a new one. It's a good idea to start with referrals because that's an area where you will see the quickest results. We can just take it in small bites until one day you will be a marketing master.

I'll leave it open to you, take the lead and start a new "Marks marketing thread" or what ever you want to call it. Do that and I will help you out. If not, no hard feelings.

Mike

Steve B
11-06-2009, 03:37 AM
"I think what people are saying here though, are that you're too quickly dismissing people."

That's the point I was making (although I did it a bit sarcastically - sorry about that I was in that kind of mood). I pay thousands of dollars to make the phone ring (sometimes only a few times), so the idea of getting a prospect off the phone quickly sounded pretty silly to me. Give them a couple minutes - with a smile on your face and take your chances. One of these days one of them will put thousands of dollars in your pocket and you'll be glad you did. But, since you never know which one of those phone calls will pay off - you have to spend some time with all of them. It's O.K. to be efficient with the phone call, just not dismissive. You might even chose to be a bit arrogant by saying "if you're looking for the cheapest plumber I'm not your guy; but, if you are looking for the best as far as quality parts and workmanship then I'll be glad to help you".

nealrm
11-08-2009, 09:47 AM
Huggytree: don't feel so down about the market, residential construction drops off near the beginning of the school year. Simply put, once the kids are in school the parents don't want to pull them out. Things get slower again when the snow starts to fall.

huggytree
11-08-2009, 12:28 PM
October was probably my busiest month of the year...i made tons of money

Nov. is typically good too....but not this year...im looking at 30-40 hours for the whole month this year.

Usually its steady through December...Jan. slows down a bit...and Feb,March are dead..

this year may be Nov-March dead..

Ive been bidding like crazy for 4 weeks now...almost all of them fell through for various reasons..

I have 3 good large projects as possibilities....id love to win 2, but could get 0...If i win all 3 ill be positive again...

Paper Shredder Clay
11-12-2009, 02:03 PM
Maybe it is best just to refuse to work on such brand. The people who are going to talk, are going to talk. The people who know those people probably already know they "talk" or they are just gossiping together.

huggytree
11-14-2009, 08:23 PM
work has started to come back slighly...I had one 4 hour work week...its just scary when that happens....I may break even this month...its been 2.5 years since ive actually lost money...