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painperdu
11-02-2009, 06:26 AM
There are two major shopping malls where I live and they're roughly two miles apart, separated by hundreds of smaller shops along the highway.

I have an idea to build a website with a name such as "ShopMainStreet.com" and run it similar to the "milliondollarhomaepage.com" whereby merchants may buy space on the site to advertise their off-mall business.

In between the two malls I will hire sign holders to dress up in eye catching costumes to wave a sign reading "ShopMainStreet.com" at passersby.

My theory is that not only will passersby go to the website but businesses will also see the street promotions and get the idea that this website would be a good place to advertise. Accordingly, they will go to the site and sign up.

I think this would work especially well during the holiday season when people are looking for solutions to their gift buying tasks and businesses are trying to attract the attention of mall goers.


Opinions please?

greenoak
11-02-2009, 07:31 AM
i think its hard to figure....that title doesnt have much to say about whats in it for the customer....and the stores dont have enough in common to have a more juicy title....as in~~~ have fun doentown in our indie shops~~~~..
the big questions .. why would i go there? whats in it for me? arent really answered.....
as a store i would like to be in a good group ad....for me it would be more about girls day out or fun places to shop....i wouldnt have much in common with the downtown stores...
our town does some shop local....but i dont think that motivates very many...
ann

handprop
11-02-2009, 08:39 AM
You may get a return as high as 3% but not probable. Think of the entire marketing chain from start to finish and determine what value the business is supplying to the customer. That type of business requires massive volume to create viability and people lofting signs to people driving by has a statistically extremly low ROME.

If you get an audience of 3% which is very unlikely what % of the 3% will buy a product? You can see why a very strong message with a very strong offer is needed. The value you need to give to the customer would surpass probable revenue.

Mike

Patrysha
11-02-2009, 08:54 AM
Sounds like a perfect place for the Community Connected Commerce program tee hee...but it is November 2nd! Getting something up and running for a Christmas promotion that will actually work and be effective for the businesses involved would be pushing the limits.

greenoak
11-02-2009, 08:55 AM
there might be some possibilities of the stores working together using the website idea in their instore promotions and group info... .... ...that might be more likely than the signs....
personally i think the signholders are kind of wierd and ikky...
ann

handprop
11-02-2009, 09:13 AM
The highest return on marketing effort for people holding signs is highest when the value is very high. That's why a company going out of business will use this method as a marketing vehicle, strangers perceive high value in the offer!

handprop
11-02-2009, 09:24 AM
It sounds like you are in a search for a business idea. Look for opportunities where you can add real value to the customer. Anytime you can add value to a product or service you have something marketable. Manufacturing has a lot of opportunity for web savy people right now. I do nothing related to online marketing but I do come from a family that owns many manufacturing companies and in that industry they are really behind the times when it comes to online marketing. Every day I hear reports of manufactures looking for new opportunities to sell more product.

It's not for everybody of course, but the right motivated person can approach a manufacture and develope a relationship to be an online marketing sales rep. rather easily.

Good luck
Mike

painperdu
11-02-2009, 11:39 AM
My idea is just a more novel way for co-op advertising. Businesses do this already with mailers like ADVO, Val-Pac, and others.

Ann, weird is usually good in advertising. Also, shoppers are always looking for new and easier ways to shop. It would be up to the advertising businesses to pitch their offer. My idea's main job is to get people to the website to look at the merchant's offers.

Mike, I'll be offering advertising space and just like postcard advertising or any kind of advertising the participating business is taking a chance, nothing is guaranteed. Since the street in between these two malls are main thoroughfares there are 1,000's of cars that use it on a normal basis; on holidays, the volume goes up considerable. The CPM should be better than most other forms of advertising.

partysha, I guess what I'm thinking of is similar to your 'Community Connected Commerce.' Businesses could benefit from pooling resources while customers benefit from having all of these off-mall shops in one virtual place.

vangogh
11-02-2009, 11:54 AM
weird is usually good in advertising

Really? Have any proof?


shoppers are always looking for new and easier ways to shop

Not sure this is true. If I'm happy with where and how I shop now I'm not going to actively seek new ways to shop. If anything I tend to go the same stores I've been going to for years because I'm familiar with them. I don't see myself having problem when it comes to shopping so I'm not looking for a new solution.

Patrysha
11-02-2009, 12:01 PM
My idea is just a more novel way for co-op advertising. Businesses do this already with mailers like ADVO, Val-Pac, and others.
Yep, and interest in this sort of joint marketing is fairly high right now. Especially when it comes with a unique hook or angle and has a community/local feel.




partysha, I guess what I'm thinking of is similar to your 'Community Connected Commerce.' Businesses could benefit from pooling resources while customers benefit from having all of these off-mall shops in one virtual place.

Yup, similar with a few different twists.

It would work if you could pull together all the business owners quickly (which I do find hard this time of year because they tend to be all busy and gearing up for the holiday season, plus many of them have already committed to their holiday marketing plans - some will jump at a new idea, but most around here are holding the line this time of year...so you'll need to get out your shmoozing and convincing skills to make it work) and once you get the commitment you'd have to be able to move fast on the printing and promotion...

Harold Mansfield
11-02-2009, 01:22 PM
Mike, I'll be offering advertising space and just like postcard advertising or any kind of advertising the participating business is taking a chance, nothing is guaranteed. Since the street in between these two malls are main thoroughfares there are 1,000's of cars that use it on a normal basis; on holidays, the volume goes up considerable. The CPM should be better than most other forms of advertising.



I think it's a good idea, but getting it done for the Xmas shopping season, which is now, is probably not going to happen.

The only flaw I see in the program is that you are using the physical traffic on the thoroughfare as a basis for potential traffic online. Those are 2 completely different things and one will not equate into success for another.

Are people going to be searching from their cars ? We haven't gotten there yet, so (unless you get listed on mobile and GPS services) your success will be based on your ability to draw local searches. Good ole' internet marketing and SEO just like any other site online.

If you are looking to capitalize on physical auto traffic on a road, a billboard will get you more results than a website.

handprop
11-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Again, how much value can you supply? Income is in direct propotion to value...that's why policy in the late 90's and everything forward failed, not enough value.......but that's a whole different topic I guess.

Here is the ultimate question business owners must always ask themselves: What group does the audience belong to?

A total STRANGER has the worst ROME while the PROSPECT is much better. The ultimate in ROME is a current customer of course but that's not who you are marketing to.

When you advertise to a group of people who are total strangers you then have to work on trust, loyalty, etc. That's also why poorly done websites in the service sector is a waste of money and produces poor results. It not the marketing vehicle that's a problem, it's the relationship of the vehicle to the prospect and customer. Advertising to strangers is OK but be prepared for a large effort with minimum results. This is no secret in marketing, marketers are always looking to seek out prospects and skip the first party conversion.

When you advertise to a group that shows an initial interest in what you offer and are searching you out they become a prospect and the amount of effort expelled to market to them and close on a sale is much cheaper and effective than marketing to strangers.

That's why online web sales when tied to SEO is so effective, people are looking for you and SEO gives them what they want. (At least that's what they should be doing)

Just my opinion, experience is the best teacher.

Mike

painperdu
11-03-2009, 07:31 AM
Really? Have any proof?


I don't have any formal studies to show you but it seems that some of the most prolific advertisers use weird in their commercials. The Burger King Man, the Geico Gecko and Cavemen, Aflac, VW and a talking bug, . . ., there are quite a few examples of weirdness in advertising.

Patrysha
11-03-2009, 08:59 AM
I don't have any formal studies to show you but it seems that some of the most prolific advertisers use weird in their commercials. The Burger King Man, the Geico Gecko and Cavemen, Aflac, VW and a talking bug, . . ., there are quite a few examples of weirdness in advertising.

While I agree that being unique is a good thing, I don't think those are great examples because they are all geared towards branding/recall efforts than sales figures.

Despite the Burger King ads and their online viral efforts, sales have been falling.

handprop
11-03-2009, 09:37 AM
Burger King is a failing business, but beyond that weirdness IS all around us but it's not the weirdness that is responsible for success. Behind the weirdness you will find a large system of complex marketing strategies all working together in a fluid like motion. What we see on TV is a lot of times just a sliver of the total marketing experience.

The Gecko commercial was a joint effort by the Martin Agency and Ted Ward (Vice President of marketing for Geico) after a meeting talking about how people confused the word Geico for Gecko. The Gecko was a RESULT of the findings from a focus group! They discovered people were confused and used the confusion as an advantage. After another focus group liked the new commercials with the Gecko lizard they knew they had a potential hit. If I remember the green lizard was drawn on a napkin at a restaurant.

At an interview with Ted Ward he was quick to point out how the green lizard wasn't as simple as it appears because the company spent months weaving the brand image into an already very successful marketing system, not an easy task.

The first commercial was the Gecko saying " I'm a Gecko not to be confused with Geico" and people liked it after doing testing so it proved itself to be a winner.

What appears to be something silly or weird is usually an add-on for most companies. Open up the doors at the marketing department and you will find a rock solid marketing system in place that runs very smoothly. Geico already had a large market share funded largely by Warren Buffet and the green lizard was used to hold and grow this market position.

The "So easy a cave man can do it" was used as a twist on testimonials. We all know how powerful testimonials are if used correctly and Geico took that and used a cave man as a testimonial as to how easy it is to shop for insurance online!

Again, in both cases the company had a rock solid marketing system in place. If Geico was just starting out as a new business would they start the marketing program with a green lizard and a cave man? Not a chance, they would begin buy building a start to finish marketing system designed by great marketing principals tempered by experience.

PS: My personal favorite is the cave man because testimonials are so abused by novice marketers. Putting testimonials on a web page or at the bottom of a advertisement is not using testimonials to an advantage. Testimonials IF USED CORRECTLY can change the marketing dynamics of a company. When Geico used the cave man as a marketing tool for testimonials that was a stroke of genius. Again, the cave man was not thought of first......testimonials were......after a group study talking about testimonials and the relationship it can play in promoting online sales. The cave man was a perfect fit!

Mike

vangogh
11-03-2009, 10:53 AM
Yep. I don't think any of those commercials is weird just to be weird. There's more behind them. In fact I'm not sure weird is the right word to use to describe them. Geico and Aflac don't strike me as weird in any way. Mike covered Geico above. Aflac just uses a duck in their commercials and aims to be humorous, but their commercials mostly tell you why you should use Aflac.

VW uses the car to show off the car. Again I think they're going after humor while telling you about their product and I suppose they're attempting to go after hip and cool.

Burger King is admittedly weird.

The thing with all tv commercials is it's interruption marketing. Most people don't turn on the tv for the commercials. We're watching something else that the commercial interrupts. The commercial needs to do something to capture out attention, because by default we don't want to see it. Ever notice how often commercials get louder in volume than the tv programs they interrupt.

I think your idea with dressing people up also fits into interruption marketing, but know a few things. We have several businesses here in Boulder that do the same thing. They do get your attention and you do look. In general though you can't read what's on their signs. You're driving after all and your attention is still on the road. There's a reason why billboards are huge. They need to be in order for people to read what's on them while driving.

Also know that after you've seen someone dressed up in a funny costume on the side of the street a few times they no longer grab your attention. They become very easy to ignore.

Harold Mansfield
11-03-2009, 12:42 PM
I don't have any formal studies to show you but it seems that some of the most prolific advertisers use weird in their commercials. The Burger King Man, the Geico Gecko and Cavemen, Aflac, VW and a talking bug, . . ., there are quite a few examples of weirdness in advertising.

You are also talking about companies that have spent years and billions branding their product and have had the budget to repetitively drill their message into the minds of consumers nationwide, and for some worldwide.

Those are also not the only commercials or marketing that they do. Their message is spread across multiple platforms with different branding technics specific to each demographic.

While Gieco and Aflac are relatively new on the T.V. scene, they have also now been running those commercials for a few years now, along with others.

VW and Burger King on the other hand have been branding their products on T.V. for over 50 years and have spent most of that time marketing quality, not humor.

It's hard to compare what a company with a multi-million dollar budget and years of marketing and branding can get away with to the average small business who has little or no budget and only has a limited shot to get an accurate and compelling message across.

vangogh
11-03-2009, 02:40 PM
Just out of curiosity has anyone here ever seen someone dressed in costume holding a sign on the side of the road and decided to stop and pull into the store? I know I haven't. Can you remember the names of the businesses that market that way? I know I don't.

The only thing I think when driving by those costumed sign holders is to think what an awful job it must be standing there waving that sign.

handprop
11-03-2009, 03:45 PM
I talked to an owner of a Little Caesars Pizza franchise when they started a campaign to have a person hold a sign outside the building that said "Hot and ready $5 pizza". The owner told me that sales jump about 20% during the week days when they started doing that. On weekends the luck seems to run out.

From a marketing perspective I think it fits well for the nature of the product and timing is crucial for success. Holding a sign at 2:00 doesn't work well of course and the 20% figure only applies during lunch and supper hours only and not to the overall sales numbers for the day. One thing to note is the pizza places that have an ideal location is where the best results occur. I imagine that's because other food franchises are all on a strip so the shopper has the ability to compare and make a choice. Keep in mind also that a whole pizza for only $5.00 is really a great deal when a McDonalds value meal costs something like 6 or 7 dollars.

So looking at all the information here I would then look back at what I said earlier, how strong is the offer?

Is the success of increased sales the result of the guy holding and shaking a sign acting silly or is the success the result of a great offer timed just right?

Simple really.:D

Mike

painperdu
11-03-2009, 06:40 PM
If you say that holding and waving a sign on a busy street is ineffective then you must also conclude that billboards, bus bench adverts, and other forms of outdoor advertising is ineffectual. These forms of advertising exist for a reason and are older than most other forms of advertising.

handprop
11-03-2009, 06:58 PM
Please don't conlude for me. Wave a sign that says $10 pizza and see what happens or better yet just put "Pizza sale" and see what happens. What were talking about here is a marketing delivery vehicle, put the wrong message on any delivery vehicle and show me the results. I have no problem with silly, fun, or even goofy but that alone means nothing!

I love billboards, always have, but how many have you seen with a poor message? Two things have to happen at a minumum......

First, what is the message and is it a strong message?

Second, what marketing delivery vehicles best suits the situation.

Where did you get the idea that I didn't like the delivery vehicle? This is basic marketing fundamentals were talking about.

Mike

vangogh
11-03-2009, 11:44 PM
Mike I think he was referring to my post above yours.


If you say that holding and waving a sign on a busy street is ineffective then you must also conclude that billboards, bus bench adverts, and other forms of outdoor advertising is ineffectual.

Not at all. But you have to think about what each of those things is doing. Billboards are usually don't have the highest conversions, but what they do have is very very large text. Much easier to read than a handheld sign. They are often along highways and you'll see the same ad over and over again unlike the one time hand held sign. And often you're even specifically looking or what they're advertising, gas, food, and lodging.

Other billboards are generally used more for branding than to pull someone in right now. Same for bus benches, and signs on the side of buses, etc. You don't see an ad on a bench and immediately go looking for the store. But you see that same ad enough times on the one bench or on several or on a combination of benches and buses and it does make an impression.

@Mike - interesting about the Little Caeser's. A question about it. Do you know if this store is in a strip mall where it gets walking traffic? I'm thinking it does. People are out shopping and see the deal for the day and they think why not grab a pizza on the way home. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time thinking people see the sign while driving and rush in. Maybe they see the sign and order a pizza later though.

With the costumed characters I do see them, but I generally don't notice the sign they're holding because the costume grabs the attention. I'm certainly not stopping while driving for a closer look. If I'm out in the car I generally have a destination and I continue on.

I'm not saying that kind of thing can never work and people certainly try it. I just think there are many other things that would likely yield better results.

handprop
11-04-2009, 08:48 AM
Vangogh, It's a free standing building but located about 20 feet from the road and all the buildings next to it are fast food. Lunch traffic is very high.

Keep in mind the 20% increase in sales is during a 2 hour period on week days only.

A marketing vehicle like this represents a very small portion of the overall marketing picture (at least it should be).

I'm a bit old fashioned I guess because I always depend and time tested marketing principals that I know work, and have worked for thousands of years.

I get marketing questions asked from daily and I always give the same answer "quality". When in doubt ask yourself "Is it quality", i'm not a games or trickery type person and most consumers are very educated and are sick of marketing in general. Of course you know all this and it's also the reason the guy waving the sign, even if it works, is just not my cup of tea.

Mike

vangogh
11-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Interesting Mike. Maybe it is the timing. I suppose it could also be the location. Sounds like many people head that way anyway to eat, but perhaps many haven't made up their mind yet where specifically they'll eat on the way there. The sign pulls them toward Little Caesars where some might have gone for one o the other fast food options.

I have nothing against people waving signs on the side of the road. Just hard for me to see them as their prime form of marketing. To me they always come across as silly and when I see someone dressed in costume holding a sign it sends an impression about the brand I suspect the owner of the business would rather not send (assuming I remember the brand). To me they give the impression of stereotyped movie used car salesman.

painperdu
11-05-2009, 06:56 AM
Mike, I was responding to vangogh's post.

Maybe the title of this thread could have been better because I didn't mean to imply using sign waving for immediate results. The idea is to brand local shopping with a website. The end result is the same as advertising on a billboard, bus bench, or even a car. People will see the message and act or not act on it.

As for a bill board's letters being bigger, the ratios can be made the same -that is, a 3 inch letter 100 feet away is comparable to a 3 foot letter hundreds of feet away.

vangogh
11-05-2009, 11:46 AM
Sorry if I'm coming across as saying don't even try this, because it won't work. I'm more trying to play devil's advocate. I don't see any harm in trying the sign. The only way to know is to actually try after all. Personally I have a hard time seeing those signs working, but that's just my opinion and there sure are businesses using them.

With the size of the lettering I still think there's a difference. With a billboard along the highway it's going to be readable to me for a longer period of time and for the most part it's directly ahead of me and in my view. With the sign being waved on the side of the road the time it's readable is a little less and it's not quite directly ahead of me.


I didn't mean to imply using sign waving for immediate results. The idea is to brand local shopping with a website

That makes more sense to me. I do think people will be able to see the website and likely remember it well enough to find it once they get home. Maybe they'll need to see it a few times and the domain is going to need to be easy to remember and type, but I can see that working My bad if I interpreted this as being about getting people to immediately walk into one of the stores.

I'm not sold on the funny costume though. I would think any sign that's visible could do the same thing. You might want to compare the costs of a permanent sign and paying someone to stand on the side of the road. I also still think the costume distracts from the sign. The costume is naturally there to grab attention, but does it let that attention go long enough for people to absorb the information on the sign itself? I'm not sure. I can only tell you with me they don't.

painperdu
11-06-2009, 07:36 AM
Years ago there was this guy who would dress up as Jesus and walk the two miles from mall to mall carrying a huge cross on his back. After a while everyone had seen him and he became something of a local celebrity. He was even interviewed on local tv.

It's hard to measure his effectiveness because his message or brand was well known before his campaign.

That is basically where I got the idea to brand a website via exposure on the highway with a costume. I may try it, if only to see what kind of response I can draw.

vangogh
11-06-2009, 11:52 AM
Sure people would notice him and after awhile everyone in town would talk about him until he became something of a celebrity, but does that mean if he were carrying a sign advertising one business in town people would shop there more?

When I was in college there was a guy who sat in a beat up pickup truck on the side of the road, near the mall and where people drove into town off the highway. I don't think he'd bathed in years. He was dirty and so was his truck. He sat there all day long waving at everyone who drove by. We all knew him. I think his name was Frank. At least that's what other people told me. Many of us waved back to him.

Rumor had it he had been an employee at IBM in the early days (the school was near where IBM started in NY) and that in the early days IBM gave out stock to employees instead of bonuses. At some point that stock became very valuable and Frank apparently was a very rich man. Rumor was he was also crazy, that his family managed all his money, and that sitting in his pick up on the side of the road was about as much as he could do on any given day.

He grabbed your attention. The whole town knew him. Would any of us have been more likely to shop in a store if there was sign painted on the side of Frank's truck? If he was waving a sign to us as we passed by?

I don't know. I imagine some people would out of curiosity alone. They might have felt sympathy for Frank and transferred that sympathy to the brand using Frank for advertising. They might also have thought that brans was taking advantage of Frank given his mental state and stopped shopping there altogether. Odds are it wouldn't have had any effect on the majority.