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View Full Version : would you be honest or keep it



huggytree
10-21-2009, 09:21 PM
I just got a signed contract for a builder today...it will be the 2nd project and he is a perfect match....probably in my top 3 customers

He told me i won and that i was $17 less than my competitor (i should have asked if i would have gotten the job if i was $17 higher..i probably will next time we talk)

anyways when submitting the fixture list to the showroom girl she noticed one of the valves i had chosen was incorrect....total savings $16

I called the customer up and told him i about the valve and that i will be crediting him $16 and that i now beat my competition by $33..we both laughed

in the past when ive given money off/back ive been bitten in the butt

did i just do it again, or was this a smart decision to show my honesty?
if the mistake was the other way i would have eaten it..ive done it for hundreds in the past

im 90% sure i made the correct choice

Dan Furman
10-21-2009, 10:06 PM
It sounds quaint, but honesty is always the best policy. Especially in business.

vangogh
10-21-2009, 10:18 PM
For $16 look how much good will you bought. I agree that it's best to be honest and in this case it's not as though being honest cost you much. I can't see how this could hurt you.

Harold Mansfield
10-21-2009, 10:22 PM
Knowingly beating someone out of any amount of money is not worth it, somehow Karma comes back and bites you in the butt when you can least afford it.

Spider
10-22-2009, 12:48 PM
I disagree with the thought processes displayed here. I believe in being scrupulously honest, but this topic is not about honesty - it is confusing retail purchasing of goods with contracting.

If you go into a grocery store and buy 15 packets of cornflakes and are inadvertently charged for 16 packets, then you are entitled to a refund of the overcharge. If you are charged for 15 packets of Super-wheaties instead of the (lower) price of cornflakes, you are similarly entitled to a refund.

If you contract with someone to build a website for you, you must pay the agreed price for the website regardless of how much time the contractor takes and regardless of how much time he has included in his bid (whether more or less than the amount used.) Likrewise, if you hire a contractor to build you a new driveway and he does so in accordance with specifications, then you must pay the agreed sum regarldess of the amount of contrete used, and regardless of the amount of concrete that was included in the bid.

To further clarify, if you CONTRACT for someone to supply you with 15 packets of cornflakes each week for the next three months, you are bound to pay the agreed price - and the contractor is bound to accept it - regardless of the price fluctuations that may arise in cornflakes.

Dan Furman
10-22-2009, 01:53 PM
you are bound to pay the agreed price - and the contractor is bound to accept it - regardless of the price fluctuations that may arise in cornflakes.

This was not a price fluctuation, though. It was an error where, had things been done correctly to start, the bid would have been $16 less. So I say he gives it back (which he did.)

Steve B
10-22-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't even see what the debate is all about.

KristineS
10-22-2009, 03:11 PM
I'd say you did the right thing. You bought yourself a lot of good will at very little cost.

Spider
10-22-2009, 05:12 PM
This was not a price fluctuation, though. It was an error where, had things been done correctly to start, the bid would have been $16 less. So I say he gives it back (which he did.)It was a contract, as I understand it - a price, let's say $8,000, for providing, delivering and installing plumbing fixtures in a bathroom renovation, say. The contract includes all fixtures and fittings, pipes, valves, and other things necessary to cover the plumbing work in said renovation.

As long as the plumber provided and installed all the fixtures and fittings, pipes, valves and everything else, according to code, in a proper, professional and adequate fashion, and left the bathroom fully functioning as a bathroom, he is entitled to $8,000. Errors are immaterial.

He offered to do a job for $8,000. The price was accepted. He did the job. He is entitled to $8,000.

This is a contract, not a retail purchase.

Whether Dave gave back $16.00 for a valve or $300 just for laughs, is also immaterial.

Spider
10-22-2009, 05:18 PM
BTW - I'm not saying Dave should or should not have given back the $16.00.

I am saying it is not a matter or honesty or dishonesty.

Dave gave the client $16.00 and purchased a lot of customer goodwill. On that score, it was a very good business move. It just does not speak to honesty or dishonesty. That's all.

huggytree
10-22-2009, 08:39 PM
my fixtures are always a seperate $ on my contract and not hidden inside the bid.

the customer always knows my price is 80% of list

I had my house reroofed 10 years ago...they had bags of extra shingles left which had to be picked up by the supplier...they gave me that $ back...they did the job for under the bid...i found that amazing.

im hoping that $16 can get me 1 step closer to having a customer for life...it shows a level of honesty....it makes me different....and different in a good way depending on the perception of the customer....some may call me a sucker

$16 on a $9,500 project really means nothing as far as dollars go....but i think i got the best bang for my $16 w/ this customer.

vangogh
10-22-2009, 10:18 PM
Exactly. You can't really lose here. Worst case is you're out $16 as if you'd every notice it. You most likely bought a lot in good will and trust than $16.

orion_joel
10-23-2009, 12:35 AM
I tend to Agree with Frederick here. This doesn't come down to being honest or not.

I would more put it down to Goodwill. HT is telling the builder a change is being made, due to a small error and is getting a $16 credit as such. In this case it seems to be a good value move. However not everyone will react in the same way to hearing about this.

Where this would maybe come down to being honest or dishonest, would be if HT was to change the valve he was using to save money, by using one that was not as good quality and not telling the builder. That is honesty, but making a change to a correct part that is going to do the job that is expected because the original part listed was wrong, it is more a choice you have to share this or not. In my opinion

Paper Shredder Clay
10-23-2009, 01:11 PM
I think you done good. I could see what Spider is saying, however you said you had made a mistake on the particular item. Had you not made the mistake and it was discounted than Spider would be right, but the issue was the mistake; not a discounted price.

Spider
10-23-2009, 02:37 PM
I think you done good. I could see what Spider is saying, however you said you had made a mistake on the particular item. Had you not made the mistake and it was discounted than Spider would be right, but the issue was the mistake; not a discounted price.Disgaree. The issue - the question asked - was about whether honesty was involved. The question was: would you be honest or keep it -- That says keeping it would have been dishonest - and that is what I do not agree with.

How many people on this board and, indeed, participating in this thread, do work on contract? Pretty near everyone, I would think. Many do work that only involves their labor, with no materials being supplied to fulfill the contract. I believe they do not charge by the hour, mostly - "I will do that for $40 per hour." Or whatever they might charge. No, they estimate how long the work will take them and charge accordingly - "I will charge you $400 for that," having calculated in their mind that they think the work will take them 10 hours.

Now, how many, having priced the job at $400 and having the price accepted, and finding that the work takes them only 9½ hours, gives that $20 back. Not occasionally, but every time - because they believe to do otherwise would be dishonest - how many?

Why, Dave has said many times how he prices X hours to plumb a house and he can do it in half the time of a regular plumber. He doesn't think he is being dishonest. and neither do I. And I suggest that all of you who work in this fashion do not consider you are being dishonest - because you are not. You have contracted to do a job for an agreed sum, you do the job and you get paid.

The same applies to materials.

huggytree
10-23-2009, 08:39 PM
havent gotten a job done in 1/2 the time in a looooong time now..i always get them done early though.

but i see your point!....and i guess i sort of agree...i would never give back hours

i keep fixtures as a seperate line item and always say they pay 80% of actual fixtures... i make no claims about the hours and raw materials....it does not change.

vangogh
10-23-2009, 10:45 PM
Frederick I agree with what you're saying. I don't see this as a question of honesty either. Honesty would be when huggy bought the valve they gave him back $16 more in change than they should have. Then the question about honesty is does he give it back.

I don't think it would have been dishonest never to mention the error and call it an extra $16 in profit. On the other hand I do think it was worth mentioning (which I think you've said you do as well) since it likely bought more than $16 in good will and trust.

Spider
10-24-2009, 09:01 AM
...On the other hand I do think it was worth mentioning (which I think you've said you do as well) since it likely bought more than $16 in good will and trust.Correct. It was a good business move.