Need your opinion - how do you do it?

[Zealus]

Recently my career started to divert quite a bit. From a simple owner of a web design studio I am transforming into a full featured business consultant, touching areas of business I have been rarely exposed to in the previous years. Thus I am reaching out to forum members for experience and expertise.

Some of the businesses (mostly retail stores) that I consult approached me for solutions to a few problems they haven't realized before, and are concerned with as their businesses are growing. Among them are:

* keeping track of the inventory (N units in stock, X units on order)
* keeping track of daily sales receipts (since you have cash/credit you have to learn what the heck is accounts payable and accounts receivable)
* keeping track of employee hours worked or units of work completed (like packages prepared and shipped or units assembled)
* keep track of all your money movements, including both direct and indirect costs (like paying salary to employees and paying handyman to fix your delivery truck, or paying your smart-ass business consultant to improve your business), i.e. all of your costs of running business
* keep track of your customers’ records, personal requests (if your business is of such sort) or general requests (for certain merchandise)
* keeping track of long term projects not directly related to running a store, like marketing (ads in newspapers, AdWords campaigns) or IT (web site redesign, integrating store’s POS with online ordering). Think of this as of the tracking your business plan execution.

I am sure there's more, but I want to concentrate on these first.

The trick is that these are small businesses, so they cannot afford any of the enterprise-level applications, nor they are willing to spend any significant amount of money on something they have to spend two months learning. More so, they would prefer to have all of the above outlined bulletpoints in a single piece of software that doesn't bear either names of Excel or Calc.

So far I have suggested Quickbooks POS that has inventory control in addition to other nice Quickbooks money tracking features (but it just strikes me that there is no real alternative to this package). I have also mentioned Mint.com for tracking expenses, dotProjekt or MS Project for project management (although it's an overkill) and Zoho/Google Documents for keeping documents and other tasks.

So if you have used or know what is being used for these purposes - I would really appreciate your input.

[rezzy]

I was looking for a few sources, and have to admint, I dont know anything right off hand.

So, I took to google to find a few sources, and ended up at cnet, heres a list of some products they have freeware and shareware. Small Business Software (http://download.cnet.com/windows/small-business-software/?tag=ltcol;nav), maybe this listing will help you. I ll keep my eyes out for anything else.

[dynocat]

That's really is diverting for you. I understand having things come to us and taking advantage of it. Best of luck to you.

For business owners who aren't able to put out the money, I was going to suggest Excel, but see you've already ruled that out. :( That would/could do pretty much everything you've listed.

I was an office manager (in a previous life) before the variety of software avaiable now and did all of those tasks on spreadsheets. In fact, I now have a hard time using even accounting software, which of course is better, but not as easy to learn.

I'll be reading to see what suggestions you get from others.

[Zealus]

For business owners who aren't able to put out the money, I was going to suggest Excel, but see you've already ruled that out. :( That would/could do pretty much everything you've listed.


From my past experience - I once went to the interview for a hedge fund that kept their accounting database in a single Excel file. The size of the file was almost 2GB and opening took about 20 minutes which coincided with first part of the interview :) Talk about crashing tasks :)

[Harold Mansfield]

Some of the businesses (mostly retail stores) that I consult approached me for solutions to a few problems they haven't realized before, and are concerned with as their businesses are growing. Among them are:

* keeping track of the inventory (N units in stock, X units on order)
* keeping track of daily sales receipts (since you have cash/credit you have to learn what the heck is accounts payable and accounts receivable)
* keeping track of employee hours worked or units of work completed (like packages prepared and shipped or units assembled)
* keep track of all your money movements, including both direct and indirect costs (like paying salary to employees and paying handyman to fix your delivery truck, or paying your smart-ass business consultant to improve your business), i.e. all of your costs of running business
* keep track of your customers’ records, personal requests (if your business is of such sort) or general requests (for certain merchandise)
* keeping track of long term projects not directly related to running a store, like marketing (ads in newspapers, AdWords campaigns) or IT (web site redesign, integrating store’s POS with online ordering). Think of this as of the tracking your business plan execution.

I am sure there's more, but I want to concentrate on these first.

The trick is that these are small businesses, so they cannot afford any of the enterprise-level applications, nor they are willing to spend any significant amount of money on something they have to spend two months learning. More so, they would prefer to have all of the above outlined bulletpoints in a single piece of software that doesn't bear either names of Excel or Calc.

So far I have suggested Quickbooks POS that has inventory control in addition to other nice Quickbooks money tracking features (but it just strikes me that there is no real alternative to this package). I have also mentioned Mint.com for tracking expenses, dotProjekt or MS Project for project management (although it's an overkill) and Zoho/Google Documents for keeping documents and other tasks.


That is a problem, the biggest being that they need something, but don't have the money to get it.
If they don't have the budget for an enterprise level solution, and the over the counter ones like you suggested, especially the wide range of Quick book products aren't good enough for them, then they have a problem.

Personally, I don't know of any cheap solutions that will give them what they want. I commend you for trying to expand your expertise to offer more services, but the requests are far from the norm of web design.

My first reaction would be if you want to offer these services quickly is to work with someone who is versed in these things that you can outsource to on demand

Most of my experience with detailed order, inventory combined with a POS is with Micros (http://www.micros.com/). Pretty much every Bar , Casino, Restaurant, and Retail Store that I have ever worked in, or for across the U.S. uses it, and I know that Dell offers a similar software for tracking for small businesses, but if expense is the problem, then they need to choose the best out of the over the counter software available.

[thx4yrtym]

You might have a look at Joomla and the many extensions that are available for it.

It's web based so it should be something that you can relate to in that you are involved in web design.

You and the customer need to realize that you will both be compromising on features and capabilities. That's what happens when you want all of these capabilities for next to nothing.

If you invest the time in learning what extensions work best you will be able to train and advise your customers. You lower the learning curve and they pay you for your time.

It just might be a solution for some of these business owners until they reach the next level in size.

I would start here: Home - Joomla! Extensions Directory (http://extensions.joomla.org/)

Hope this helps.

[Patrysha]

Open Office Base works very well if you can set up a database. It is really not hard at all. And you can have all the information in one file so you can find information on almost anything you need to know quite quickly.

It's not a professional solution, but if budget is an issue it will help get the business buy until they earn enough to invest in a professional solution.

[Zealus]

You might have a look at Joomla and the many extensions that are available for it.
...

Hope this helps.

Thanks for suggestion. I know what Joomla is, in fact we have deployed quite a few web sites based on Joomla. The culprit is that Joomla is an online content management system, which is, needless to say, not what we're looking for. A component, a plug-in to CMS is hardly a replacement to a standalone product.

[Zealus]

Open Office Base works very well if you can set up a database. It is really not hard at all. And you can have all the information in one file so you can find information on almost anything you need to know quite quickly.

It's not a professional solution, but if budget is an issue it will help get the business buy until they earn enough to invest in a professional solution.

Setting up Base or Access database isn't all that different from managing everything in Excel. Base (or Access) isn't going to give the business an additional flexibility while it will take away time to adjust operations.

Although it does make sense to make it a database (at least you can get to do forms and reports), it not feasible to go for it if you're migrating from Excel - you're pretty much exchanging one set of tables for another.

[Zealus]

On a more general thought - maybe some of the businesses would be interested not in full-featured standalone product, but something like MS Access or Open Office Base database that will work its magic, won't cost an arm and a leg (both to build and to buy) and offer them just the flexibility they need. Thanks, Patrysha, for kicking thought in this direction.

What do you think? Maybe even something like Mint, an online solution that you purchase a membership to and pay small monthly fee rather than sweat off a large lump sum of money?

[billbenson]

Although it does make sense to make it a database (at least you can get to do forms and reports), it not feasible to go for it if you're migrating from Excel - you're pretty much exchanging one set of tables for another.
Its no different than downloading excel sheets to quickbooks.

If you can get a good definition of what you need, the programming for a custom solution shouldn't be expensive. The hard part is getting a really good specification together and give it to a programmer.

[Zealus]

Its no different than downloading excel sheets to quickbooks.

If you can get a good definition of what you need, the programming for a custom solution shouldn't be expensive. The hard part is getting a really good specification together and give it to a programmer.

I am a programmer myself (among other things), I can pretty much write specifications as detailed as I want, so I know what goes into the project like this. Unfortunately, it WILL BE expensive, the only way to justify the cost is to make this into a commercial product by competing against Quickbooks and sell to multiple customers.

[orion_joel]

I am not sure i get what is wrong with building something that meets the requirements, using Access. You say it is just trading one set of tables (excel) for another (access). But if this is the case, then why go to Quickbooks, it is just another set of tables as well.

Any software that achieves one or all of the tasks mentioned, is going to run on some form of tables in some form of database.

I think the key point that you need to focus on here is that some of the items mentioned do fall within the scope of accounting software, while other fall within enterprise management. Tracking stock and daily sales receipts and such will be the primary focus on accounting software, some include time billing or tracking, but will depend entirely on what needs there are in the time keeping function for the employees.

Once you get to Keeping track of client requests, and overall products as you mention, you need to be looking at Customer Relationship Management Software and Project Management software. While at a stretch you may find all three (accounting, CRM, and Project Management) in a single package i doubt it is going to be something to buy off the shelve if not buy at a high price with a lot of customization.

Your best bet is to find products that can link into even if with custom addons where required. Maybe a CRM package that links in some way to the accounting package, and can pass information back and forward for racking quotes to individual clients and then creating orders in the accounting package when the quote is accepted. Just one of the area's.

CRM software i have found good is Sugar CRM.

At the end of the day though even big companies do not all have software that does everything in the one package. In fact many will actually make use of multiple packages to get the best from the different area's. What would you prefer, buying an accounting package that had a hard to use CRM package tacked on because people want it all in one, or spending a little more and getting two products that do exactly what you want for both area's.

[Harold Mansfield]

I think it's important to know what kind of business we are talking about. Every solution is not ambidextrous.
What a restaurant needs is going to be different from what a book store needs. For a small business, I really can't see hiring someone to program a custom solution when there are already solutions out there that will do the trick..again, what kind of business are we talking about ?

Working from home with no inventory, any one of the popular over the counter solutions should be enough.

For a brick and mortar, you probably need to go with something a little more professional. Like I said, I have never seen many Bar, Restaurants, Casinos, and Retail shops that didn't use Micros. It is pretty much the industry standard and what most new employees and management with any experience will be trained on when they walk in the door.

I know that livery, or Limo and Transportation companies nationwide and around the world use Fast Track (http://www.myfasttrak.com/), pretty much the industry standard in that business and you would never be able to run one using Mint or any other enterprise solution that is not made specifically for that business.

I have no idea what a lumber company would use but I am sure they have some kind of proprietary software as well that is integrated into nationwide supply and demand the same way Fast Track is integrated with transportation companies and Airports all over the world.

It's definitely not the same for every business, so it's really hard to give an accurate answer without knowing what type of business we are talking about.

[Paper Shredder Clay]

My parents use QuickBooks for their business and I know of another place that uses Filemaker, maybe you should check out what Filemaker has to offer?

[billbenson]

You are talking about 2 days for a good programmer. Is that expensive?

[Evan]

From an accounting perspective, most of these programs won't do everything you need. They're built from an accountant's perspective, and some of this is beyond accounting.

QuickBooks I don't think is the best solution for inventory management. Sage's Peachtree will provide a much better way of tracking inventory, including the ability to deal with "Work-in-Progress" inventory.

Cost accounting can be quite complex, and there are some accountants that specialize just in that area. For example, if your business was a dairy farm. You have animals, which are actually an asset. They produce milk (a product itself), which can be turned into butter or cheese. Cows also produce manure which is a byproduct and could also be sold if you wanted. Knowing how to handle of this is complex, and sometimes the cookie-cutter software won't handle everything. Some spreadsheets may be needed.

In any event, because of the complexity in determining this, these clients really aught to have an accountant to work with. There are so many areas to mess up, and most peoples heads begin to spin when they learn about some of these details.

[Harold Mansfield]

From an accounting perspective, most of these programs won't do everything you need. They're built from an accountant's perspective, and some of this is beyond accounting.

QuickBooks I don't think is the best solution for inventory management. Sage's Peachtree will provide a much better way of tracking inventory, including the ability to deal with "Work-in-Progress" inventory.

Cost accounting can be quite complex, and there are some accountants that specialize just in that area. For example, if your business was a dairy farm. You have animals, which are actually an asset. They produce milk (a product itself), which can be turned into butter or cheese. Cows also produce manure which is a byproduct and could also be sold if you wanted. Knowing how to handle of this is complex, and sometimes the cookie-cutter software won't handle everything. Some spreadsheets may be needed.

In any event, because of the complexity in determining this, these clients really aught to have an accountant to work with. There are so many areas to mess up, and most peoples heads begin to spin when they learn about some of these details.

You make perfect sense, but wouldn't you have to think that inventory management and accounting for farming and agriculture is a problem that has already been solved ? I can't be sure, because I have never worked on a farm, but I would bet $100 that there is a specialized software for commercial farming in use right now by thousands of farms worldwide.

That's what I meant by knowing what business because there are hundreds of solutions particular to almost every business niche there is, already available.

Really no reason to reinvent the wheel in most cases, and I just don't see having a custom solution created for most businesses being smart or cost effective.

So to me the only question that need be answered is, "Can you afford the one that is right for you, or do you make due with an over the counter cookie cutter software until you can ?" Because odds are, if there is no budget for a system that is particular to your business, there probably isn't a budget for an accountant either.

I am sure that there are going to be a few instances where a certain business niche, doesn't have any available custom solutions already out there, but I honestly haven't seen one yet...it would pretty much take a new kind of business and product line that has never been seen before.

Even if you were chartering shuttle service to the moon, you only need to enter the proper numbers for the cost, maintenance, and depreciation of your Space Shuttle fleet, and Current jet fuel costs into already existing Livery software.

[vangogh]

There's a few different directions you could go.

1. Develop a commercial product - You've identified a market with a need. If they're needs were being met by Quickbooks then those people would buy and use Quickbooks. Clearly there's a gap that Quickbooks isn't meeting so you would be competing against them directly.

Granted it's no easy task to develop a commercial program, but you have uncovered an opportunity and it is one way to go. It's also a digital product so once complete production costs drop quickly to $0. How much would it cost you to produce this kind of application and how much many could you reasonably sell. You mentioned things like Mint. Maybe you could develop this into something sold as a service with recurring fees. You'd have to put a lot into it, but it has a lot of potential.

2. Explain to your clients that they can only get so much for what they're willing to or can afford to pay. That's simply a fact of life. I'd love to live in a million dollar home in the mountains, but I can't afford it so I live in a town house on the outskirts of the mountains.

At some point your clients need to either realize they can't afford what they want and will have to do without or find a way to afford as much of what they want as possible.

2a. This really goes with the above. If your clients can't afford what they want find them as much as they can get for the money. I realize that's why you're here and why this thread exists. Whenever a similar situation arises with my clients I look to open source solutions. They may not have all the functionality of some commercial products, but they are free. There's still a cost in supporting them of course.

With this method I generally don't expect one application to handle all my needs, but several each of which handles some of those needs. In your case about half the things you listed would be standard with any shopping cart program. Since you're looking at offline instead of online is it feasible that you could set up a shopping cart system internally and the store could hire someone to do data entry to get everything in there.

You might then tie in other programs like a customer relationship manager and tie them together into an intranet for the business.

It's still going to cost something, but that's inevitable.