Phone Service

[Steve B]

I need to get a new phone number for another business I'm starting. I anticipate we will receive 10 - 30 calls a week. And, in most cases the caller will need to leave a message and we'll have to return the calls - so another 10-30 outgoing calls. We definitely need the ability to forward the phone at times.

My local phone company At&t will cost about $90 per month (because of where I live I have to purchase a long distance package since just about any number I dial will be long distance).

The only cell phone company that has a signal where I live charges 20 cents per minute for all calls that are forwarded (so I'm guessing that will get the cost up to the $90 per month range also).

My cable provider (Insight) doesn't post prices, and they don't take calls until normal business hours.

Vonage seems cheap - but I read a bunch of lousy reviews about the quality of the sound and their customer service sounds horrible.

Am I missing any other options? I'd like to think I don't have to pay $90 for such a basic service.

[Evan]

Do you really need the same incoming number to be the outgoing number as well? You may be able to set up multiple rings, and having the ring at the other number go to a different voicemail.

You'll find plenty of voicemail services where people can leave you general messages, and you can respond at a later time. Depends on your specific needs though.

[billbenson]

I have a VoIP line from my cable company attached to my FAX. I have a Vonage line that I use strictly for business.

Vonage customer service sucks, particularly for setting up routers etc, because you are talking to India. Having said that, I have very few problems and have used them for at least 5 years. I have a small problem with call waiting right now. Its not bad so I haven't called them.

The ATT thing sounds crazy. I haven't thought about paying for long distance service in years. Its included in most plans. The local telco here is outrageous as well. Its verizon, but completely separate from the wireless phone company. They rape you for every little thing. I looked at them a while back and their prices and fine print charges were outrageous.

So, while customer service at Vonage isn't great, they provide a great service for the price. They even are providing free calling internationally to some major countries for $10 extra per month. In my case, I might need to stay at my parents place in CA as they are elderly and need care. Just take your router with you and move. you are still online. You can't do that with the local cable company unless you stay within your area. I've been calling the Dominican Republic and Central America a lot recently. No voice quality problems. And I've been calling El Salvador several times a day. Short calls. 13 cents a minute. a lot better than the telco would offer I bet...

Thats my experience anyway.

So, I'd recommend Vonage. Just don't expect them to be perfect. Oh, and you mentioned voice quality. Its fine and as good as any VoIP system. Degrades pretty quick internationally depending on the number of routers you are connected through, but thats a VoIP problem, not just Vonage.

[huggytree]

i dont see the big deal about $90 per month....add .57 cents to your hourly rate and its paid for....i doubt you get much better...id want a seperate phone with a different ring

with that many calls you may want to consider an answering service...you wont have time to work!

good luck with the new idea

[Harold Mansfield]

I need to get a new phone number for another business I'm starting. I anticipate we will receive 10 - 30 calls a week. And, in most cases the caller will need to leave a message and we'll have to return the calls - so another 10-30 outgoing calls. We definitely need the ability to forward the phone at times.

My local phone company At&t will cost about $90 per month (because of where I live I have to purchase a long distance package since just about any number I dial will be long distance).

The only cell phone company that has a signal where I live charges 20 cents per minute for all calls that are forwarded (so I'm guessing that will get the cost up to the $90 per month range also).

My cable provider (Insight) doesn't post prices, and they don't take calls until normal business hours.

Vonage seems cheap - but I read a bunch of lousy reviews about the quality of the sound and their customer service sounds horrible.

Am I missing any other options? I'd like to think I don't have to pay $90 for such a basic service.

If you want to go real cheap, sign up for Google talk (http://www.google.com/talk/). You have to wait for them to send you an invitation..mine took about a week. You pick your own number (based on what's available), set up a voicemail, and forward the calls to where ever you want.

Or.if you have broadband internet, get a Magic Jack. (http://www.magicjack.com/4/index.asp) Around $40 for the unit and $20 a year. Not sure about the call forwarding, but they offer free voicemail.

After that, the next cheapest option would be a prepaid cell phone.

If all you need is a new incoming number, I'd see about Google talk and see if you can get decent vanity number...they let you search by possible letter combinations..not much left so I would jump on it soon.

I've had Vonage before and never had a problem with the quality. Customer service is in India and that is what it is, but the lines worked just fine.

[Evan]

Google Voice is also pretty nice :)

[Paper Shredder Clay]

I was going to suggest Google Voice as well. You can pick select numbers, hopefully there is one in your area. Its great because you can have your google number to ring you at different phones, take voicemails and receive and send text messages. Also they will translate your voice-mail into an email and email you the message. Although please note that sometimes their translation software doesn't get all the words right, so you will want to listen to their voice-mail too.

[dynocat]

If you want to go real cheap, sign up for Google talk (http://www.google.com/talk/). You have to wait for them to send you an invitation..mine took about a week. You pick your own number (based on what's available), set up a voicemail, and forward the calls to where ever you want.

Did you mean Google Voice (http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html), rather than Google Talk?

[Harold Mansfield]

Did you mean Google Voice (http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html), rather than Google Talk?

Yeah:o. I always do that. I don't even use Google Talk. Google Voice. (http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html)

[Vivid Color Zack]

Phone Power - VoIP (http://www.phonepower.com)

I can't say enough good things about this company. Price, call quality, customer service - it's all way WAY better than dealing with AT&T or a local cable company. Online chat support is instant and they have always handled my needs VERY quickly.

Just check it out - you will probably agree it's your best bet. I had a thread about this a while back when I initially got it and I still love it.

Edit: This sounds like I work for them or something. Just to clear it up I'm not affiliated in any way, just a very satisfied customer that is happy to refer business to a company that deserves referrals.

[Steve B]

Thanks for the tip Vivid Color Zack.

I just signed up. I tried to give you credit, but I didn't know your name, so I listed your business name. Let me know if you want me to clarify that with them.

I guess I have to wait until the hardware arrives to get started.

I called them and Vonage - and the difference was very apparant just in one phone call. If Vonage was using their own system, it didn't leave a good impression. The sound quality was minimally acceptable (in my opinion). So, I called Phone Power and the quality of the sound was much better (could have been a coincidence I guess - but, the first impression was all they both got) and the person was much more informed and able to answer questions.

[Vivid Color Zack]

What I really love is the simplicity of the product options.

Feel free to give us a call if you'd like to hear line clarity. Thanks for name dropping, I think I've spoken to the same people over there a few times so maybe they'll recognize us.

I like their options flow chart for their menu too - very functional. With At&t I was thrown in circles for hours trying to figure it out, with phone power everything works exactly how it's supposed to.

I think you'll like it.

[billbenson]

A question for any network guys out there. My understanding is that any VoIP system is going to pretty much have voice quality depending on the number of routers they go through. I believe voice packets get preferencial treatment by the router, but that would depend on who owns the router. It could be configured in a ton of different ways. Some companies may buy preferential routing for long haul stuff?

So it should boil down to all VoIP carriers having equal sound quality unless they are paying for better routing for certain routes.

How accurate or inaccurate is my description?

[Steve B]

I agree about the simplicity. The cell phone and land line companies have so many options it makes your head spin trying to choose one. My cable company never got considered because they chose not to list their prices on their website.

Bill, Vonage's customer service sounded like it was in India. Does that mean it had to go through more routers?

[billbenson]

Probably. I believe they could setup special routing so it's pretty good, but I bet it does go through more routers. Its the same as accessing a web page. One time, you may have a connection via a router in Dallas, the next time it could be via San Francisco. Its rarely the same twice and you have no control of the route. It contributes to why pages load faster or slower sometimes.

I've been out of the Telecom industry for some time now, so my knowledge as to exactly how the connections are done for voice traffic is dated, but with VoIP the quality depends on the route and the priority the routers give your connection which is a router setup thing.

Telephony is definitely moving toward VoIP only service (other than cellular). I think eventually all calls will be VoIP. That means voice quality will go down, even from the traditional telcos.

[Zealus]

A question for any network guys out there. My understanding is that any VoIP system is going to pretty much have voice quality depending on the number of routers they go through. I believe voice packets get preferencial treatment by the router, but that would depend on who owns the router. It could be configured in a ton of different ways. Some companies may buy preferential routing for long haul stuff?

So it should boil down to all VoIP carriers having equal sound quality unless they are paying for better routing for certain routes.

How accurate or inaccurate is my description?

This would mostly depend on the quality of the connection to the internet backbone on both sides. Consider this simple diagram:

Caller1 --> ISP1 --> VoIP Co --> Backbone --> ISP2 --> Caller2

It's by no means exact, but it will give you an idea how things work. When you call your packets drive up the information superhighway to your ISP and then to VoIP company. They route your packet cars through backbone (a REALLY FAT internet pipe) to the ISP of the caller you're trying to reach. The quality depends on how wide the highways are between: a) you and your ISP, b) your other caller and his/her ISP, c) how fast is VoIP Co's network to route calls, d) ISPs to backbone connection.

So as you can see the primary reason for good/bad quality is how your and your other caller's connections are behaving. Then how VoIP Co is treating your calls and only then it depends on routers and other stuff. Even if you use the same connection to call the same person over the same service at different times your mileage will vary - just because someone you're sharing your line with started downloading that Blu-Ray release of Pirates 2.

As you can imagine, just as the situation on a real highway changes every second, the situation on the interwebtubbies is changing every millisecond. Only if you get consistently better results from one VoIP provider versus the other you can say that they are better. My experience with Skype (which is VoIP just the same) has been from worse than my AT&T phone to better than Verizon's land line - depending on the shape of internet traffic. However, when i was comparing it to some open-source SIP (Gizmo5, I think) the quality was consistently better any time I used Skype. This was the argument solid enough to justify paying for Skype phone number and call-in/call-out services for past 4 years.

Just my 2 cents.

[Steve B]

Well, I got my hardware the other day and got it all hooked up. Here is my experience so far.

I called them for help with the hook-up. They had some directions which might have been good enough for a lot of you tech savy people, but I wanted a real person to help me out so I didn't mess anything up. The first time I called was a bit frustrating. I waited on hold for 15 minutes after hitting "3" for a technician. When he answered he got the name of my DSL modem and said he'd e-mail me the directions. I told him I already had directions and needed help. He said he was only a "T1" technician and would have to have a "T2" call me back. Apparently T1's are only qualified to send e-mails (he never asked what the nature of my problem was). That was very disappointing - he couldn't tell me when I would get a call. I was ready to send it back.

But, I decided to call again at 4am when I woke up. This time I got a technician that was actually able to help. Once I convinced him he needed to slow down with the technical talk (typical conversation between someone under 30 and someone over 40 these days), he was great. We got cut off a couple times because of my cell phone, and each time I called back the same guy answered. He told me he actually worked for Phone Power and was located at their office in CA. He spoke clear English.

The quality of the sound has been outstanding. I've only had about 4 phone calls on it, but each time it was a bit better than my AT&T land line and FAR better than any cell phone connection I've ever had.

If this quality holds up - I'll dump my land line and save my family a fair amount of money each month.

[Evan]

Once I convinced him he needed to slow down with the technical talk (typical conversation between someone under 30 and someone over 40 these days), he was great.

Admittedly, I think using technical talk is what people use in most industries, and they think that people understand it because they are in need of services.

As an accountant, one of the first things we were taught is debits and credits. So it's such a basic concept to me. Yet I've dealt with some clients who do not know what debits or credits are, and I try to stay away from that terminology.

If you care to know the intricacies of accrual accounting, by all means ask an accountant. Most people don't care that if they prepay for their insurance for the year that it must be listed as a prepaid expense (asset) and it is expensed out as often as financials are needed. Yet, as an accountant, that could almost be "exciting".

"Exciting" for me is uncovering fraud in an organization and using analytical tests to unravel the mess.

EDIT: Oh, I should probably have had a point with this message. But yes, every field does have it's technical terms. I don't think it's necessarily a generational thing. Though with technology, admittedly younger people do assume others have a general idea of what it is. It baffles me that my mother (still) can't figure out her iPod, and she had one 2 years longer!

[dynocat]

It baffles me that my mother (still) can't figure out her iPod, and she had one 2 years longer!

Funny you should mention that. I was just putting my grandson's iPod in his room. It took me close to 5 minutes of trial and error to put it to "sleep!" :D

back to topic

I have two business lines, one phone and a 2nd one for a fax #. I've left AT&T and Qwest in the past and wouldn't go back. I now use Bresnan (our cable provider) for internet and the two phone lines. It's still costing me an arm and a leg and I'm not sure what alternative to consider so I can lower our costs. The fax line is not used a lot, but I would like to keep the two local and 800 numbers, since most of our customers are out of the area in the US and Canada.

Keep the info coming.

[dynocat]

I checked out PhonePower but am still confused.

I would need to replicate (or simplify) what I currently have:
2 home-business phone lines/numbers
#1 is a landline with typical features--voice mail, caller id, etc.
#2 is a landline goes to a fax machine (or handset) used for inbound and outbound faxes.
Each line has an 800 number associated with it.

This is through our cable internet provider, Bresnan, so I have an Arris modem where the phone lines come into the house. Both the phone and fax lines connect to that.

I have a Motorola SB5101 modem at my computer with an ethernet cable (not sure if that just handle the internet or phone as well). See how easily confused I am? :)

What would I need for hardware and PhonePower service to duplicate, or better yet, simplify this arrangement?

[Evan]

Funny you should mention that. I was just putting my grandson's iPod in his room. It took me close to 5 minutes of trial and error to put it to "sleep!" :D

It took me a day or two to get used to the iPod. Certainly quite different and not easy to use for a novice.

Some things are a bit more explanatory. Like digital cameras. On second thought...

[Steve B]

Dynocat - I would call the PhonePower customer service. They're open 24/7. When I called late at night (or actually 3am) I didn't have to be put on hold at all.

[billbenson]

Update: As I said earlier in this thread I use Vonage. I had a problem and gave them a call. I talked to a tech in north america. I asked him why I was talking to someone here, he said they have tech support here, india and a couple of other places. Its a crap shoot if you get someone from here, but you can just keep calling and eventually get someone here. Its wed evening before Thanksgiving, so it may be easier right now as well (people are in a holiday mood, not calling tech service). He fixed my problem and I had good service. Last time I called I got lousy service from india. I don't care if I talk to india if they fix my problem but they didn't.

My wife and I are considering moving to Costa Rica. Since Vonage has a box that you can take with you and make calls, If I take it to costa rica and connect to broadband, I effectively have a US phone number and my calls are the same as if I was in the US. $19.95 per month.

I'm not sure how good the voice quality would be from that distance, but if its adequate, my customers would make local calls and think I'm in the US.

[CBoykin]

With Magic Jack you can get a number and service for $20/yr. If you need a toll-free number to ring into that number UNI-TEL is about the best deal out there I have found ($10 min per month and about $.05/min).

Visit MagicJack (http://www.magicjack.com) and UNI-TEL (http://www.unitelgroup.com) for information.

I know this is an older post but thought I'd add my 2 cents...